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Old 04-16-2012, 08:14 PM   #16
Deb & Bill
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Originally Posted by Missyrose View Post
Please do a great deal of research about using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts. The RCI exchanges aren't a particularly good value for your points and it can be very difficult to find anything that resembles the quality of DVC.

Base your decision to buy DVC on using the points ON DVC.
You beat me to this response, Missyrose. Trading DVC isn't all that DVC tries to make it out to be. Many of the trades just aren't the same quality as DVC. And many of them are difficult to get. Most of the time you need to plan at least a year or two out to get a trade. Even then, you might not get what you really want.

Purchase DVC to stay DVC.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missyrose View Post
Please do a great deal of research about using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts. The RCI exchanges aren't a particularly good value for your points and it can be very difficult to find anything that resembles the quality of DVC.

Base your decision to buy DVC on using the points ON DVC.
this is great advice. if you are interested in using pts outside of the DVC resorts at wdw and HHI (and maybe the one at DL if you are feeling lucky) on a regular basis, then your husband is 100% right that DVC is a bad use of your money.

rules for renting a DVC reservation:

1. See the Considering Renting from a DVC Member? thread. getting a little dated but still some important information.

2. here's a link to DVC point charts to figure out how many points your reservation will require.

3. here's a link to learn more about the DVC resorts. (BCV is a short walk from epcot and a longer walk or boat ride from DHS...BLT is across the street from the MK. AKV is farther from the parks, but awfully nifty if you like zebras and giraffes.)

4. go to the rent/trade board and read the sticky threads there

5. and then start looking for a DVC owner to rent a reservation from.

(BTW, most DVC members make reservations more than 6 months in advance...many at 10-11 months out...so working with shorter notice may seriously limit your options.)

as previously mentioned, david's rental service is also a good option:

http://www.dvcrequest.com/
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:23 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Brian Noble View Post
You aren't really "investing" in DVC. As the PP puts it, you are pre-paying for your vacation lodging.

Generally speaking, DVC can save money for people who visit at least once every other year, stay in Deluxe resorts, and expect to continue doing so for at least the next decade. Also generally speaking, DVC can give you an upgrade on your lodging (and maybe save a little money as well) if you visit at least once every other year, stay in Moderate resorts, and expect to continue doing so for at least a decade.

DVC is not as great of an idea if you often stay in Value resorts or would consider staying offsite. It's also potentially a bad idea if you are buying "to take the kids to Disney," because kids have a nasty tendency of growing up.

The other problem with DVC: it's easy to really upgrade your lodging and spend more on it in the long run. For example, we just don't consider a hotel room (or a studio) for the four of us vacation. We can squeeze into a 1BR if we have to, but consider even that a sacrifice and really prefer 2BR units. Likewise, even with just the two of us, without the kids, we really prefer a 1BR to a studio. Once you go down that road, you are not "saving" much of anything even compared to regular Deluxe stays.
i agree with your assessment wholeheartedly, but the one point i disagree with is upgraading to a 2 bedroom vs. cost savings. I still think you save and the fact that you have the points i think let your treat yourself more than hyou would if paying rack rates. Anytime i travel i stay in a least a deluxe and that is only if they don't have a one bedroom. I am always shocked that people think four people in a studio for a week i a vacation. My family would never survive.

Also a lot of 1 and 2 bedrooms are hard to come by even paying rack rates.

We are spoiled but with dvc and 2 stays a year, we figure we break even in 5 to 7 yrs with all the extra savins on AP and TIW
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:34 PM   #19
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My first suggestion -- as others have said -- is to lose the concept of "investment."

A timeshare is NOT an investment -- and that's not a knock on DVC. NObody's timeshare is an investment. Depending on what you buy and how much you pay (both acquisition cost and annually), a timeshare may be a reasonable vacation option. Or not.

The second suggestion I have is to make first decisions first.

FIRST...decide if you want to get involved in ANY timeshare. Most timeshares involve a never-ending financial committment to significant annual payments (usually called maintenance fees, called "dues" by DVC). DVC's "dues" are a committment for 30-50 years, depending on what resort you buy. That's longer than the mortgage on your house, and although the numbers are smaller, it is still a very significant longterm committment.

No, you don't have to keep any timeshare forever and ever, Amen. But...if you're not going to keep it forever, you need to have a realistic exit strategy. If you pay THOUSANDS of dollars to buy in, a rational exit strategy becomes very problematic. If you pay those kinds of bucks and get out later, you're going to take a financial beating.

In making this critical first decision, you need to consider ALL options to timeshares. That includes traditional cash hotel reservations (often with good discounts), renting reservations from timeshare owners (including DVC owners), staying offsite at WDW with really significant savings, and buying other timeshares instead of/in addition to DVC.

My third suggestion is -- before you buy DVC -- REALLY consider how you plan to use it.

IMHO, DVC is a fine timeshare...IF you use it exclusively for DVC resorts at WDW, and if you just wouldn't be satisfied staying anywhere but onsite in "deluxe" accommodations (and some would dispute that description of DVC).

I would argue that there are better options everywhere else where DVC has resorts. Better in Hilton Head, better on both Florida coasts, better in California, and WAY better in Hawaii.

Using DVC points outside DVC is a sucker bet, with a few exceptions in RCI trades.

Fourth suggestion -- speaking of RCI: If you want to do any exchanges other than when you've screwed up and have expiring points you HAVE to deposit in RCI...buy something else.

With regard to RCI, you have to understand what DVC is...and isn't. With many timeshares, you receive a full personal membership in one (or more) of the major timeshare exchange programs -- RCI and/or II.

That's not true with DVC. With DVC, you are not a member of any exchange program. You can exchange through RCI currently, but only a very limited number of choices (<600 of the more than 4,000 RCI resorts) and only through DVC MS.

IF you wanted to buy a timeshare for the purpose of exchanging (not recommended), you could buy a fine timeshare on eBay for $1 and get access to all 4000+ RCI resorts, plus all of their other significant benefits.
*****

So take your time. Take a deep breath, and do your homework. Don't try to force a fit. You'll be sorry if you do.

And...as a Dad to three beautiful daughters (2 adults and a 10 y/o) I can tell you that there are SO many things that are so much more important than trips to Disney...or anywhere else.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by JimMIA View Post
My first suggestion -- as others have said -- is to lose the concept of "investment."

A timeshare is NOT an investment -- and that's not a knock on DVC. NObody's timeshare is an investment. Depending on what you buy and how much you pay (both acquisition cost and annually), a timeshare may be a reasonable vacation option. Or not.

The second suggestion I have is to make first decisions first.

FIRST...decide if you want to get involved in ANY timeshare. Most timeshares involve a never-ending financial committment to significant annual payments (usually called maintenance fees, called "dues" by DVC). DVC's "dues" are a committment for 30-50 years, depending on what resort you buy. That's longer than the mortgage on your house, and although the numbers are smaller, it is still a very significant longterm committment.

No, you don't have to keep any timeshare forever and ever, Amen. But...if you're not going to keep it forever, you need to have a realistic exit strategy. If you pay THOUSANDS of dollars to buy in, a rational exit strategy becomes very problematic. If you pay those kinds of bucks and get out later, you're going to take a financial beating.

In making this critical first decision, you need to consider ALL options to timeshares. That includes traditional cash hotel reservations (often with good discounts), renting reservations from timeshare owners (including DVC owners), staying offsite at WDW with really significant savings, and buying other timeshares instead of/in addition to DVC.

My third suggestion is -- before you buy DVC -- REALLY consider how you plan to use it.

IMHO, DVC is a fine timeshare...IF you use it exclusively for DVC resorts at WDW, and if you just wouldn't be satisfied staying anywhere but onsite in "deluxe" accommodations (and some would dispute that description of DVC).

I would argue that there are better options everywhere else where DVC has resorts. Better in Hilton Head, better on both Florida coasts, better in California, and WAY better in Hawaii.

Using DVC points outside DVC is a sucker bet, with a few exceptions in RCI trades.

Fourth suggestion -- speaking of RCI: If you want to do any exchanges other than when you've screwed up and have expiring points you HAVE to deposit in RCI...buy something else.

With regard to RCI, you have to understand what DVC is...and isn't. With many timeshares, you receive a full personal membership in one (or more) of the major timeshare exchange programs -- RCI and/or II.

That's not true with DVC. With DVC, you are not a member of any exchange program. You can exchange through RCI currently, but only a very limited number of choices (<600 of the more than 4,000 RCI resorts) and only through DVC MS.

IF you wanted to buy a timeshare for the purpose of exchanging (not recommended), you could buy a fine timeshare on eBay for $1 and get access to all 4000+ RCI resorts, plus all of their other significant benefits.
*****

So take your time. Take a deep breath, and do your homework. Don't try to force a fit. You'll be sorry if you do.

And...as a Dad to three beautiful daughters (2 adults and a 10 y/o) I can tell you that there are SO many things that are so much more important than trips to Disney...or anywhere else.
But are you glad you bought yours? We want to use ours for DIsney and Hilton Head every year or every other year.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by luvslikepi View Post
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?
I had the same problem, here is how I justified it. I am a pretty simplistic person although saving and investments are important to me. Many people on this board will try to calculate "the lost potential of money". I found this extremely hard to determine. Most people assume the market or potential of money is always going to increase. Well as we know this doesn't always hold true. So would your analysis be different assuming an 8% rate of return Vs. a -2%...Obviously. I fugured in todays dollars what it would cost to take the next 4-5 trips I want to take. For me they were 1-2 trips to Disneyland (3 nights in a 1 bedroom suite or 2 rooms), a week at WDW staying at Animal Kingdom and a week in Hawaii. I simply picked a week and priced each trips rack rate, added these together and compared to the point cost of joining DVC. For me these 3-4 trips (given the cost of a suite or 2 rooms) was a break even when comparing the points needed for a 1 bedroom villa over this same period of time. I also assumed roughly $100 per day for cooking in the unit for a family of 5 Vs. eating out based on eating Breakfast and Dinner in the unit.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #22
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Multiple posts have reminded all of us that generally speaking, exchanging points with RCI is not the best financial trade. I think it is how you look at it. My contract is fully paid so I only have my yearly dues which are $1500.00 (currently). When we exchanged 160 points with RCI, I received a weeks' stay in Kauai, Hawaii at a wonderful resort in Princevalle. It would 'rent' for $2000.00 a week if I were to pay cash. So I, at minimum, 'saved' 500 dollars by using my points. Then I still had points 'left' over so I was able to use them to visit Disneyland that year and stay at the Grand Californian. I've paid cash for that experience in the past, so I probably would have spent $2000.00 dollars for the amount of time I spent there IF I had paid cash.

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. I am glad I purchased my points from Disney so I had to ability to decide what to do and not to be 'locked' into disney properties. I probably feel that way because I live in California. Going to Florida 'every year' is prohibitive if you look at the cost of airplane tickets from CA. I don't look at it as 'wasting' the value of my points if I use it in different ways. I saved money on airplane travel by going to Hawaii too.

The experience I had in Hawaii was truly one of the top vacations of my life. I am glad that I have my Disney timeshare and that I took a risk. It was worth it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:10 PM   #23
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Many assume that because they are DVC Members, they will be able to book at non home resorts at 7 months or less and get what they want, that's not always true. They also assume that trading outside of DVC is easy and that is not always true. RCI has over 4000 locations but DVC only has access to 500 or so and as some members have found out even trying for a trade 2 years in advance doesn't always work.

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Old 04-17-2012, 12:34 AM   #24
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That's true Disneynutz. When I called for Hawaii; I had a list and a very open ended plan. I wanted anywhere in Hawaii (had never been there; so we were willing to explore) but would have taken anywhere on the West Coast (we were trying to save money on flights). I almost fell off my chair when I was told that I had two resorts to choose from in Hawaii;both on Kauai. I quickly hung up the phone and sat on the computer with my husband and chose which of the two looked the best from other independent websites and trip reports. I called DVC back again, holding my breathe knowing that it might have already been taken; but we were fortunate that day.

We lucked out. We know we did. And we would try again; knowing that we might not get what we think we want but might end up with a new fantastic experience.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:54 AM   #25
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Honestly at this point and we have owned our DVC for almost 15 years, I can not recommend DVC for anyone unless you are strictly interested in going to Disney World and you are happy with the resort you buy into as your home resort.

It is not the best way or even cheapest way to travel to other destinations.

You may at times get lucky and get another DVC resort at 7 months other than your home resort but many times you won't. Only buy where you could be happy staying there for many years.

At first it seems you will never get tired of Disney vacations but even too much of a good thing at times is simply too much.

I would only buy enough points to go every other year starting out and see how it fits.

As your children age you will soon see it gets harder and harder to plan 11- 8 months out due to their school, sports or work schedules.

Good luck, we are glad we bought when prices were lower, would I do it again at today's prices, no.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by k3chantal View Post
I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii.
You DID get a good deal.

One of the problems with generalities is they're not always correct. That's true of the conventional wisdom about RCI exchanges not being a good use of your points. You can get good deals exchanging DVC through RCI...but your choices are limited and the process is cumbersome.

But "deals" are relative.

For example, I own Wyndham. Without exchanging, I have access to ELEVEN Wyndham resorts in Hawaii including SIX on Kauai. Wyndham has the same number of resorts in Hawaii as DVC has in their entire system. And exchanging through RCI, I have dozens of choices in Hawaii...not two. For well under $1,000 in dues, I can get a full week in a 2 bedroom in Hawaii either way.

Last edited by JimMIA; 04-17-2012 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by k3chantal View Post
Multiple posts have reminded all of us that generally speaking, exchanging points with RCI is not the best financial trade. I think it is how you look at it. My contract is fully paid so I only have my yearly dues which are $1500.00 (currently). When we exchanged 160 points with RCI, I received a weeks' stay in Kauai, Hawaii at a wonderful resort in Princevalle. It would 'rent' for $2000.00 a week if I were to pay cash. So I, at minimum, 'saved' 500 dollars by using my points. Then I still had points 'left' over so I was able to use them to visit Disneyland that year and stay at the Grand Californian. I've paid cash for that experience in the past, so I probably would have spent $2000.00 dollars for the amount of time I spent there IF I had paid cash.

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. I am glad I purchased my points from Disney so I had to ability to decide what to do and not to be 'locked' into disney properties. I probably feel that way because I live in California. Going to Florida 'every year' is prohibitive if you look at the cost of airplane tickets from CA. I don't look at it as 'wasting' the value of my points if I use it in different ways. I saved money on airplane travel by going to Hawaii too.

The experience I had in Hawaii was truly one of the top vacations of my life. I am glad that I have my Disney timeshare and that I took a risk. It was worth it.
A couple of points. First, buying in to trade or use for cruises or anything other than to stay at DVC resorts is NEVER a good or reasonable choice. Already owning and deciding to use those options is a different situation, one that is reasonable or not depending on the specifics but it's your choice to make whatever decisions you chose, good or bad. One should consider the up front costs, esp for other than a one time deal. One should also at least consider the value of what is being given up including the possibility of renting those points. Another option and one that is usually the best for someone looking at doing other timeshares routinely is to buy less DVC points and look at a different timeshare option for non DVC trips.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:07 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by luvslikepi View Post
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?
Translation, he's heard hearsay about timeshares but doesn't know anything about them. I'm assuming you've asked him and reasoned with him and he refused. If this is the case, and you want to investigate, do so on your own and you could even buy on your own potentially, are you the planner of the group? One thing you might try is to challenge him. Just realize that if he does actually investigate timeshares, he may come up with a different choice than you are looking at. Comparatively DVC is still very expensive compared to most timeshares and that's both to buy in and every year.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #29
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FACTS:
- With DVC I can go more often and stay in resorts I couldn't afford otherwise
- Can take kids and grandkids and create great memories, stay in beautiful locations (Animal Kingdom, Savannah view/last rip- Bay Lake Tower, 1 BR, MK view - would have cost over $600 per night!)
- On two occassions I took 13 family members, had two, 2BR units at Beach Club villas, at no room cost to any of thefamily. (These would have been over $800 a night!)
- Septof 2011 - cruise on the dream
- I kept up with my visits and rack rates and figure I "paid" for my original purchase price in 7 years.
- Going in Sept 12, friends flying in from Texas to meet us. They've got a room and will travel on Magical Express - I'm their hero! (Hopefully they'll but me a meal!!)
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:02 PM   #30
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FACTS:
- With DVC I can go more often and stay in resorts I couldn't afford otherwise
- Can take kids and grandkids and create great memories, stay in beautiful locations (Animal Kingdom, Savannah view/last rip- Bay Lake Tower, 1 BR, MK view - would have cost over $600 per night!)
- On two occassions I took 13 family members, had two, 2BR units at Beach Club villas, at no room cost to any of thefamily. (These would have been over $800 a night!)
- Septof 2011 - cruise on the dream
- I kept up with my visits and rack rates and figure I "paid" for my original purchase price in 7 years.
- Going in Sept 12, friends flying in from Texas to meet us. They've got a room and will travel on Magical Express - I'm their hero! (Hopefully they'll but me a meal!!)
There are cheaper ways to stay on property than DVC so technically you may have additional value but you also have additional cost. Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.
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