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Old 04-04-2012, 07:23 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvazul View Post
I find it very insulting that there are some who think we are lying just to get out of paying for our son's college education. As I have stated, we have spent a ton of money on attorneys fees over the last 14 years. And the ex won't pay a dime to help. He's not remarried, no other kids and makes over $6,000 a month.

If it works for your family to pay, great. But don't look down your noses and judge me, because we are doing it different. And, yes, I have seen MANY kids throw away Mommy and Daddy's money just because they could.

This will be my son's INVESTMENT - not a debt. It is HIS life. We don't expect him to pay us his salary once he finds a job after graduation. Why in the world would we pay for his schooling?
Not looking down my nose at all!!! You have to do what is best for your family...as does everyone else.

I have to ask here....are all of you still taking your college kids as a deduction come tax time??? When my ds got his first BA and went off to work, we stopped taking him as a deduction. He planned to continue his education a year or so later. When he did, he was then considered independent..so qualified for more 'free' money. My suggestion to those families that aren't planning on helping their kids out is to keep them off your tax filings. If they are off for a certain amount of time, the kids can then be independent.

My dh and I consider it our responsibility to help our dd with her college costs. Not 100% but some. I firmly believe that every college graduate should finish school with some debt! Not $100,00 but some. That's why we are automatically paying some each year...actually taking our tax refund....and then allowing dd to get a cosigner and take out loans for the rest. Now, that could leave her with close to $100,000 in loans after 4 years!! But, that won't happen. We will be using some money from the sale of our home in the next few years. Then, we will be saving more as we go along and that way we can make some lump payments into her loans. And then, we will give her x amount each month to help her pay those loan payments. Hopefully, when she graduates from college she won't have more than the $25,000 she has incurred in subsidized/unsubsidized loans and then maybe another $30,000 from loans with that cosigner.
It's not easy. And yes, it's 'her' education. And she knows she will have to get a job to pay for that education. But here's the thing...if a child has to pay 100% of their education, they are going to have a very hard time paying for it......a large part of their paycheck will go to those loans. Yes, there are cheaper schools..community colleges, junior colleges, state schools. But sometimes those schools don't offer what the student needs. Or they will have to start at a community college (or other cheaper alternative) and then take their gen ed classes and transfer to a more expensive school as a junior.

There is no one answer that fits all situations. I will say that my ex had agreed to pay for our ds's college costs. He had taken ds as a deduction for years, so we thought that was only fair. Well...ds got into a bit of trouble and that's all the ex needed. He immediately stopped paying tuition costs. It wasn't anything huge...and it was dealt with. But, now ds had no way to pay for his last two years of college. So, my new dh and I had to pick up those payments. The last year of college I was making college tuition payments as well as preschool payments...it was a bit weird!!!
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by DVCLiz View Post
You know, I've read this whole thread through twice and I can't find a single poster who said anything about people who lie about paying or unwillingness to pay. Where are you getting that from? Honestly, I can't find a single thing on this thread that anybody has said like that.
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Not looking down my nose at all!!! You have to do what is best for your family...as does everyone else.

I have to ask here....are all of you still taking your college kids as a deduction come tax time??? When my ds got his first BA and went off to work, we stopped taking him as a deduction. He planned to continue his education a year or so later. When he did, he was then considered independent..so qualified for more 'free' money. My suggestion to those families that aren't planning on helping their kids out is to keep them off your tax filings. If they are off for a certain amount of time, the kids can then be independent.

My dh and I consider it our responsibility to help our dd with her college costs. Not 100% but some. I firmly believe that every college graduate should finish school with some debt! Not $100,00 but some. That's why we are automatically paying some each year...actually taking our tax refund....and then allowing dd to get a cosigner and take out loans for the rest. Now, that could leave her with close to $100,000 in loans after 4 years!! But, that won't happen. We will be using some money from the sale of our home in the next few years. Then, we will be saving more as we go along and that way we can make some lump payments into her loans. And then, we will give her x amount each month to help her pay those loan payments. Hopefully, when she graduates from college she won't have more than the $25,000 she has incurred in subsidized/unsubsidized loans and then maybe another $30,000 from loans with that cosigner.
It's not easy. And yes, it's 'her' education. And she knows she will have to get a job to pay for that education. But here's the thing...if a child has to pay 100% of their education, they are going to have a very hard time paying for it......a large part of their paycheck will go to those loans. Yes, there are cheaper schools..community colleges, junior colleges, state schools. But sometimes those schools don't offer what the student needs. Or they will have to start at a community college (or other cheaper alternative) and then take their gen ed classes and transfer to a more expensive school as a junior.

There is no one answer that fits all situations. I will say that my ex had agreed to pay for our ds's college costs. He had taken ds as a deduction for years, so we thought that was only fair. Well...ds got into a bit of trouble and that's all the ex needed. He immediately stopped paying tuition costs. It wasn't anything huge...and it was dealt with. But, now ds had no way to pay for his last two years of college. So, my new dh and I had to pick up those payments. The last year of college I was making college tuition payments as well as preschool payments...it was a bit weird!!!
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Originally Posted by MrsPete View Post
As you said, people will lie about their willingness to pay. I agree that a better answer is needed, but I wouldn't even know where to start in making it genuinely fair for everyone.
This last quote is where someone said people will lie about their willingness to pay.

I am sorry if I seem defensive. We are NOT lying about our income. In fact, it has dropped considerably since last year and he is still not getting very much help. I am a bit upset that he is giving up the school with the scholarship offer, but it's his choice. Purdue has the education he will need for the field he wants to go into. They have given him a $500 scholarship. :roll eyes:

We will not be including him on our taxes next year. I really wish we would not have done it for this past year. He is our first to go to college. Even though I am a student, it seems to be so much different getting him to that point.

I wish all of your kids and families the best of luck.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:56 AM   #48
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Each family should do what they feel is best for their situation, but I think it's bizarre to insist that every college student should graduate with some debt. What on earth for? If parents are willing and able to pay 100% of college costs, why saddle a graduate with college debt? That doesn't make sense to me.

On a more cheerful note, who is shopping and what are you planning to buy for your rising freshman? Since DD will be going to school far away, we will probably go down a day early to do the major microwave/fridge things, instead of having to haul them all the way to Florida. Can't wait to start shopping for extra long sheets!
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by DVCLiz View Post
Each family should do what they feel is best for their situation, but I think it's bizarre to insist that every college student should graduate with some debt. What on earth for? If parents are willing and able to pay 100% of college costs, why saddle a graduate with college debt? That doesn't make sense to me.

On a more cheerful note, who is shopping and what are you planning to buy for your rising freshman? Since DD will be going to school far away, we will probably go down a day early to do the major microwave/fridge things, instead of having to haul them all the way to Florida. Can't wait to start shopping for extra long sheets!
I completely agree with the bolded part. I guess we see it a bit different - and different is okay. We do not see college costs as debt. We see it as an investment. My sister also gave up a full ride scholarship to attend Penn State. She came out with a ton of loans. She then went on to obtain her Master's - more loans. Those two schools are paid off completely. She is now attending the University of Rochester, working on her PhD - at $1500 per credit!!!

Our son has had many conversations with her and how she handled the loans. She told him she took whatever job she could find - thankfully, most in her field - and just kept chipping away. Plus, she was also able to find jobs who helped pay off her loans. It IS doable. And it's not like we are not helping him at all. I paid his $200 to accept the offer. We will have to pay the $350 for him to move in. We just can't commit to any kind of a monthly payment right now.

As far as shopping, I have no clue what we will be buying. Our son knows what he would like. I am thinking of taking him to a couple stores to make a registry. We have family all over the country and the questions of what they can give him as a graduation gift have already started. The only problem is I have not seen any graduation registries - just baby and wedding!

I am pretty sure he said his dorm room includes a microwave and refrigerator. I think my mother is giving him a small TV. I am thinking of buying him an iPad2. They can get text books on them that are less expensive than the actual book - and a lot lighter to carry! My sister gave him a sheet/comforter set for Christmas. My mother-in-law and her husband sent him a laptop and printer for Christmas.

This is going by way too fast. Weren't we just bringing these kids home from the hospital for the first time yesterday???
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:43 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by DVCLiz View Post
Each family should do what they feel is best for their situation, but I think it's bizarre to insist that every college student should graduate with some debt. What on earth for? If parents are willing and able to pay 100% of college costs, why saddle a graduate with college debt? That doesn't make sense to me.

On a more cheerful note, who is shopping and what are you planning to buy for your rising freshman? Since DD will be going to school far away, we will probably go down a day early to do the major microwave/fridge things, instead of having to haul them all the way to Florida. Can't wait to start shopping for extra long sheets!
We expect DD will have to take out the sub/unsub loans & then we will make the payments when she's out. That's give us an extra year or two to get my income back on track & pay off some other stuff. Each of our parents paid for our schooling so we've kind of anticipated doing the same. She plans to get her MA and that will be her responsibilitiy, as well as spending money or extras.

DD has been excited about shopping since last year! She loves all those organizing, matching items and pink! We tease her that her roommate doesn't know what she's in for! I bought her some cute pink & green oven mitts, pink measuring cups & spoons for Christmas. She may not need them right away but they were inexpensive for stocking stuffers. It's nice that she will be close so shopping will be easy.

We have to wait & see on her housing before we shop. She is rooming w/a girl she met on her college msg board & they applied for suite style housing. If they luck out & get in, it will have a small kitchenette w/2 other girls.
Either way, her room will have a small microwave & good size fridge.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:45 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by mvazul View Post
Also, I am currently a college student. I used to work at Cornell in Ithaca, NY. My sister is currently a teacher at a SUNY school. She and I have compared notes. More often than not, the kids who have their parents paying, tend to blow off more classes and don't do the work assigned. Not saying your kid will be one of them, but I have seen it more than I have cared to. I have seen too many bright kids drop out, because they ended up on academic probation due to blowing off responsibility. It's sad to see it happen.
Nobody cares if you pay for your kid's college. They really don't. The stuff you said above is what people are responding to. That is just your opinion, pure and simple. I've spent a lot of time on college campuses too, and in my experience I can probably give you more examples of kids who had their parents paying and did great than kids who had their parents paying and did poorly. You are free to state your opinion, but don't be offended when other people disagree with it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:50 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by mvazul View Post
I find it very insulting that there are some who think we are lying just to get out of paying for our son's college education. As I have stated, we have spent a ton of money on attorneys fees over the last 14 years. And the ex won't pay a dime to help. He's not remarried, no other kids and makes over $6,000 a month.

If it works for your family to pay, great. But don't look down your noses and judge me, because we are doing it different. And, yes, I have seen MANY kids throw away Mommy and Daddy's money just because they could.

This will be my son's INVESTMENT - not a debt. It is HIS life. We don't expect him to pay us his salary once he finds a job after graduation. Why in the world would we pay for his schooling?
I don't see anything on this thread that insinuates anything concerning your honesty.

I said that when I was in school the financial aid office accused ME of lying. They said that no one could possibly live on what I was earning and that my parents had to be giving me money.
I said that if the FAFSA folks allowed parents to say they just don't want to pay, lots of people will lie and do just what the financial aid office accused me of doing -- taking money from their parents and pretending to be financially independent students.

But no one's said you're lying. Not even close.

You are dead-wrong on one thing: If your son borrows for his education, it may be an investment in his future, but it will ALSO be a debt. If he has to repay it, it's a debt. You and he may deem it a worthwhile debt or an unavoidable debt, but it is still a debt. That's a simple fact.

Finally, I don't see that borrowing increases student responsibility. It's very easy for an 18-year old to promise to pay back money sometime in the distant future. To many of them, with their minimal knowledge of finances, the amounts they promise to pay seem vague. I am firmly convinced that if your main goal is to increase responsibility in your student, the student needs to be working for that money TODAY.
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Kids are unique and there are many factors that determine whether they will be successful.
This is the bottom line! Not only are kids unique, they're multi-fauceted. Anytime someone says, "If you just ____, your kid will turn out fine", that's untruthful. Success is dependant upon many, many factors -- some of which are even out of our control.

The pay-for-college-and-they-won't-appreciate-it concept is something of an urban myth. Sure, it's true for some students, but to make a blanket statement about it applying to every student . . . well, that's an exaggeration. Some students will be successful, others won't. Some of those successful students will be paying it on their own, others will be on their parents' dime.

Case in point, I had to pay every last dime of my education. As a result, I worked more hours than were healthy and wise, and it caused friction between me and my parents. Yes, I appreciated the opportunities I had, but I also felt that they should've helped me. They didn't have the money to give me -- I understood that -- but they actually threw road blocks in my path. For example, they wouldn't do my FAFSA forms in a timely manner, which meant I received less money than I could've. In contrast, my roomate had parents who were very supportive of her education and paid every penny. She had a small job just for spending money. She was enormously grateful for what they'd given her and took her education very seriously. She had better grades than I did.
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Originally Posted by mvazul View Post
This last quote is where someone said people will lie about their willingness to pay.
Some people will lie about their willingness to pay. That was a general comment on society and the shortcomings of the FAFSA process. Why would you think that was about you personally?

Last edited by MrsPete; 04-04-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:51 AM   #53
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This is going by way too fast. Weren't we just bringing these kids home from the hospital for the first time yesterday???
I know!! That is what makes me cry at most things this year! I'm so excited and happy for her but she's my buddy, I'm gonna miss her. When she performs, I just remember that little kid who loved dresses and always sang or asked questions. Now she's taller than me but still loves dresses & sings beautifully. Prom & graduation are going to be tough!
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:54 AM   #54
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Nobody cares if you pay for your kid's college. They really don't. The stuff you said above is what people are responding to. That is just your opinion, pure and simple. I've spent a lot of time on college campuses too, and in my experience I can probably give you more examples of kids who had their parents paying and did great than kids who had their parents paying and did poorly. You are free to state your opinion, but don't be offended when other people disagree with it.
Got it. Thanks.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:01 AM   #55
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I don't see anything on this thread that insinuates anything concerning your honesty.

I said that when I was in school the financial aid office accused ME of lying. They said that no one could possibly live on what I was earning and that my parents had to be giving me money.
I said that if the FAFSA folks allowed parents to say they just don't want to pay, lots of people will lie and do just what the financial aid office accused me of doing -- taking money from their parents and pretending to be financially independent students.

But no one's said you're lying. Not even close.

You are dead-wrong on one thing: If your son borrows for his education, it may be an investment in his future, but it will ALSO be a debt. If he has to repay it, it's a debt. You and he may deem it a worthwhile debt or an unavoidable debt, but it is still a debt. That's a simple fact. This is the bottom line! Not only are kids unique, they're multi-fauceted. Anytime someone says, "If you just ____, your kid will turn out fine", that's untruthful. Success is dependant upon many, many factors -- some of which are even out of our control.

The pay-for-college-and-they-won't-appreciate-it concept is something of an urban myth. Sure, it's true for some students, but to make a blanket statement about it applying to every student . . . well, that's an exaggeration. Some students will be successful, others won't. Some of those successful students will be paying it on their own, others will be on their parents' dime.

Case in point, I had to pay every last dime of my education. As a result, I worked more hours than were healthy and wise, and it caused friction between me and my parents. Yes, I appreciated the opportunities I had, but I also felt that they should've helped me. They didn't have the money to give me -- I understood that -- but they actually threw road blocks in my path. For example, they wouldn't do my FAFSA forms in a timely manner, which meant I received less money than I could've. In contrast, my roomate had parents who were very supportive of her education and paid every penny. She had a small job just for spending money. She was enormously grateful for what they'd given her and took her education very seriously. She had better grades than I did.

Finally, I don't see that borrowing increases student responsibility. It's very easy for an 18-year old to promise to pay back money sometime in the distant future. To many of them, with their minimal knowledge of finances, the amounts they promise to pay seem vague. I am firmly convinced that if your main goal is to increase responsibility in your student, the student needs to be working for that money TODAY. Some people will lie about their willingness to pay. That was a general comment on society and the shortcomings of the FAFSA process. Why would you think that was about you personally?
So, if your comment was just a general statement and not directed at me (when I was the one who brought it up), then how is my comment about my experience so offensive? I never said EVERY student.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:04 AM   #56
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For those that this is a first child headed to college...remember not to go out and buy anything until you hear from the college and roommates.

My sons college last year would only allow a specific frig and microwave sold by them. Also, roommates tend to split up the big items so one student isn't saddled with the expense of multiple big items.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:07 AM   #57
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So, if your comment was just a general statement and not directed at me (when I was the one who brought it up), then how is my comment about my experience so offensive? I never said EVERY student.
mvazul, what's the point you are trying to make? That you can be an internet bully? Because that's how you are coming across.

Mrs. Pete made a perfectly innocuous statement about something general and you mistook it for a personal attack. It clearly wasn't and everyone else on this thread understood that.

In contrast, you have been defensive and belligerent on every post you have made. I just don't understand why you need to keep doing it. Everyone else understands your point of view and you have made your opinion known. Fine, we get it. Move on. Otherwise, please leave the thread so we can have a pleasant conversation about sending our seniors off to college.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:10 AM   #58
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mvazul, what's the point you are trying to make? That you can be an internet bully? Because that's how you are coming across.

Mrs. Pete made a perfectly innocuous statement about something general and you mistook it for a personal attack. It clearly wasn't and everyone else on this thread understood that.

In contrast, you have been defensive and belligerent on every post you have made. I just don't understand why you need to keep doing it. Everyone else understands your point of view and you have made your opinion known. Fine, we get it. Move on. Otherwise, please leave the thread so we can have a pleasant conversation about sending our seniors off to college.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:23 AM   #59
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We have a daughter heading out to college in the fall. She's not going to the school I thought she'd choose, but we're very pleased with her decisions. The school she'll be attending is an ideal fit for her.
Mrs. Pete, which did she end up choosing - sand or snow?
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:27 AM   #60
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We've not even started shopping. My son has to decide where he's going to school first (Go Tar Heels -- Mom has decided! Plus, he's a boy who doesn't care what kind of sheets he has as long as he has sheets, etc.! If he has a refrigerator and microwave, lots of food and enough clothes that he can avoid laundry for a long time, he will be happy.

I'll reiterate that everyone should wait until you know what school to buy sheets as not everyone has extra long beds. The central campus towers at NC State University, which house a few thousand kids, have regular size twin beds.
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