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Old 03-24-2011, 12:06 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Reportedly, Betti got damaged on the very first test after the received the AA from the builder. The builder was supposed to lubricate the animatronics before delivery - apparently they didn't. Testing caused some damage before it was shut down, but there wasn't time to send it back for repair before the opening date. The damage was not severe, and it was felt that it would still operate fine, but the continued operation made the condition worse over time.
But if this was case that it was improper or complete lack of Lubrication then it was probably either pumps or joints that were damaged. Anything damaged from lack of lubrication is most likely going to wear out with proper lubrication over the course of 10 - 30 years. There must have been a way designed into it to do maintence on all the parts that are going to wear without removing it. what i am trying to say is if it was as simple as lack of lubrication all affected parts should be able to be replaced as normal maintence, in this case the bui;der should have been buy all nesw parts and replacing them.

This tells me
1) it is something more than the lack of lubrication or to replace all those parts they need to close the ride for too long a period of time
or
2) Maybe the lack of lubrication cause different stress than anticipated wich then caused what would have been a good foundation to fail.
or
3) The Foundation was not designed properly
or
4) It takes more than three licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop and we may never know.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:51 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Figment632 View Post
^^^

Yea I know one of the most heavily themed coasters on the planet is terrible compared to one that is cheap thrills with almost 0 theming.

RnRC is a cheap off the shelf coaster that can be found all over the world but if all you care about is a cheap thrill an zero theme I guess go with RnRC. Or just go to Six Flags.
you obviously didn't read anything i said...

it's not about "cheap thrills". I took into account the theming, design, and ingenuity of the ride...and big thunder fails in design bigtime. I'm not comparing it to 2010 technology...it was bad for 1980...just a bad layout.

but i have so say, your defense of big thunder and assault on RNRcoaster seems to be of the "Disney does it better" vein...and while i would agree with that assessment in most things that your average amusement park would contain - it doesn't hold here.

RNRcoaster - though a vekoma "cheap" ride system - runs like horse and didn't cost 200 million bucks to build...and it appeals to a market segment that disney largely ignores. Not just teenagers - anybody who likes to get the blood pumping a little.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:11 PM   #63
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BTM ride system is perfect for it's story there isn't going to be huge drops weaving in an out a mine shaft and the one lift hill is essential to the story with the collapsing cave scene.

RNRC has no depth to it's story you are going to an Aerosmith concert, now that's what I call an earth shattering story.

You do realize BTM mountain actually gas a story?
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:26 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Figment632 View Post
BTM ride system is perfect for it's story there isn't going to be huge drops weaving in an out a mine shaft and the one lift hill is essential to the story with the collapsing cave scene.
Ok...but you have to balance the "story" with the physical elements of a ride that is based on movement and force...and no matter how much you like the bones or the dumb bat effects or the cave sequence...if you had to add three lift hills - somebody needed to step in and change it up. Guess Ron Miller wasn't an engineer.

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Originally Posted by Figment632 View Post
RNRC has no depth to it's story you are going to an Aerosmith concert, now that's what I call an earth shattering story.
The story is weak...i'm not disputing that. but it is passable with the technical elements and makes an overall good experience...it could have been jazzed up and tweaked more...but it still is pretty solid as compared to some of the other overpriced horrors they've rolled out in WDW over the last 20 years.

Again...i think one of the best things about RNRC is that it is cheap...as in it didn't gobble up 10 years worth of capital budget to the park...as apparently everest has (because that's all we're gonna get in 10 years).


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You do realize BTM mountain actually gas a story?
I was gonna say "nobody cares". But i guess at least one person does.
if you are talking about some "imagineers screenplay" for a ride written in 1975 - then truly nobody cares. I've not seen Big Thunder ever referred to as a ride that tells a great story...not in discussion, not in the park, not as an employee, and not on the internet. Perhaps if it didn't resemble a mine train coaster with western props placed next to the track that at one point resided in almost every amusement park on earth. Better quality no doubt - but not fundamentally different.
I can rattle off 20+ things at WDW that tell a much better story. And i would tend to think that is the majority opinion on this subject.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:31 PM   #65
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BTM story a little more than you are late for a concert

Although the details of the backstory vary from park to park, all follow the same general story arcs. Some time in the late 1800s, gold was discovered on Big Thunder Mountain in the American southwest. Overnight, the small mining town of Big Thunder (at Disneyland), Tumbleweed (at the Magic Kingdom), or Thunder Mesa (at Disneyland Paris) became a thriving mining town. Mining was prosperous, and an extensive line of mine trains was set up to transport the ore. Unknown to the settlers, the Mountain was a sacred spot to local Native Americans and was cursed.[1]

Before long, the settlers' desecration of the mountain caused a great tragedy, which, depending on the park, is usually depicted to be an earthquake (Disneyland Paris, Disneyland) or a flash flood (Magic Kingdom), which befell the mines and town, and the town was abandoned. Some time later, the locomotives were found to be racing around the mountain on their own, without engineers or a crew. The Big Thunder Mountain Railroad was founded in the old mining camp to allow tourists to take rides on the possessed trains.


Keeping in time with the theme, the station buildings on all four versions of the ride are designed to look as though they are the abandoned offices of a mining company from the mid to late 19th century. The mountains themselves are themed to the red rock formations of the American Southwest. The rock work designs on Disneyland's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad are based on the hoodoos of Bryce Canyon National Park in Utah.

In the Magic Kingdom version of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and in the Tokyo and Paris versions, the rockwork designs are based on the rising buttes that are located in Utah and Arizona's Monument Valley. Special care was taken by the Imagineers to make it appear that the rocks were there originally, and the track was built around the rocks, unlike a number of earlier mine rides, which were built the other way around (by sculpting the rocks around the tracks).[2] The action of the ride takes place completely in the sagging, rotting tunnels of the mountain. In contrast to most steel roller coasters, where the thrills come from the perception of flying through open air, the thrills on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad are meant to come from the perceived instability of the mine and its threats of collapse. Sound effects of a typical locomotive operation are piped into the surrounding scenery to add realism to guests viewing the ride from observation platforms, including the steam whistle sounding, even though there is no whistle displayed on the locomotives.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:32 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figment632 View Post
^^^

Yea I know one of the most heavily themed coasters on the planet is terrible compared to one that is cheap thrills with almost 0 theming.

RnRC is a cheap off the shelf coaster that can be found all over the world but if all you care about is a cheap thrill an zero theme I guess go with RnRC. Or just go to Six Flags.
There is only one other version of the RnR ride and it's outdoors in Europe. (Other than its other rides at Disney Parks) Not to mention it's a dark fast ride so the theme is a lot harder to grasp and capture, I'm with you that it may not be the "best" coaster at WDW as I think Everest is the best. But it's the most fun and by far the most extreme coaster. No high speed rides are themed well. Look at outdoor TT it's as boring as it gets "road" and "walls" nothing else. ToT when it's moving with pace is pitch black pretty much. Most of the other rides at WDW are deathly slow and would be incredibly boring without great theme. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:43 PM   #67
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Hey Fig,

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You needn't post the story from the imagineers book...i've read them. I know that their's this elaborate themed "story" to big thunder...but it translates into just an average amusement ride.

however geeked you can get about the story...the fact it is a western runaway railroad is pretty tired, and the reality is that you spend 30 seconds going up a lift 3 times with 15 seconds of curves and dips in between is really choppy and makes a bad run....today, tomorrow, or in 1979.
I don't want it gone...but it really isn't much more than a blip. I wouldn't skip splash or space if i have the time and its manageable...i would skip big thunder...that's the bottomline.

Though i tell you what...i will go on it the next trip just to be sure. but since the last 20 runs haven't really varied much...i'm still skeptical.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:53 PM   #68
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I agree to disagee.

And I'm biased because I love BTM!!
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:18 PM   #69
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I agree to disagee.

And I'm biased because I love BTM!!
I KNEW it!!!!
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:08 PM   #70
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Hey Fig,

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You needn't post the story from the imagineers book...i've read them. I know that their's this elaborate themed "story" to big thunder...but it translates into just an average amusement ride.

however geeked you can get about the story...the fact it is a western runaway railroad is pretty tired, and the reality is that you spend 30 seconds going up a lift 3 times with 15 seconds of curves and dips in between is really choppy and makes a bad run....today, tomorrow, or in 1979.
I don't want it gone...but it really isn't much more than a blip. I wouldn't skip splash or space if i have the time and its manageable...i would skip big thunder...that's the bottomline.

Though i tell you what...i will go on it the next trip just to be sure. but since the last 20 runs haven't really varied much...i'm still skeptical.
Where have you read them? I would like to read them as well
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:17 PM   #71
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Where have you read them? I would like to read them as well
I believe that the Imagineering Book (circa 1995) covered the story...The Architecture of Reassurance (1997) also has it - if memory serves

The Disney Mountains: Imagineering at its Peak (2007) is the best place...and it also includes the official bull put out about everest and it's "fearsome" yeti

the field guide to the magic kingdom (there are pocket guides for the 4 WDW parks and disneyland and i believe DCL) also give a brief overview.


All are available at Amazon or BN.com
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:38 PM   #72
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Test Track is reportedly the most expensive amusement park ride ever...as estimates for its final construction cost are above 300 million dollars...mostly due to the numerous failures, delays, and redesigns during construction...

Not only did it open years behind schedule (though not quite to the level of the haunted mansion at disneyland)...it burns through tires, brakes, and computer systems on the individual vehicles itself.

So basically, the ride is overdesigned and the technology was never meant to handle the stress put on it as a high volume, repetitive ride system.

but to be fair, they've done an impressive job keeping it operational for 12 years now and getting as much out of it as they have.

It did erode the relationship between Disney and one of its original corporate sponsors at EPCOT -GM
But since they've made terrible, overpriced cars for decades...that probably didn't matter much anyway as far as corporate sponsorship is concerned
Given that Test Track opened after DAK, makes you wonder if the overruns had any influence on some of the DAK cuts such as Beastly Kingdom?
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:10 PM   #73
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TT is no longer the most expensive it's cousin Radiator Springs Racers will be 350 million.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:31 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
I believe that the Imagineering Book (circa 1995) covered the story...The Architecture of Reassurance (1997) also has it - if memory serves

The Disney Mountains: Imagineering at its Peak (2007) is the best place...and it also includes the official bull put out about everest and it's "fearsome" yeti

the field guide to the magic kingdom (there are pocket guides for the 4 WDW parks and disneyland and i believe DCL) also give a brief overview.


All are available at Amazon or BN.com
Thanks
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:48 PM   #75
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The Disney Mountains: Imagineering at its Peak (2007) is the best place...and it also includes the official bull put out about everest and it's "fearsome" yeti
Bolded to add emphasis.

The Disney Mountains is an AWESOME book, especially if you're a theme park junkie. It may be one of the best theme park books (up there with the Kurti 25th Anniversary WDW book that came out awhile back) I've ever read.
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