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Old 09-07-2010, 09:43 PM   #121
Puffles
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Originally Posted by LilyWDW View Post
Okay, that is out of line and ridicules. Just because someone does not want children does not mean they will end up with a house full of cats. It doesn't mean they will have less of a life. It is their personal wants for their lives. You don't know why someone doesn't want kids, so get your nose out of their business about it.

And luckyprincess is a wonderful and sweet person. However, like many other people, she has an opinion. Obviously her opinion is not the same as yours and, as it happens WAY too much around here, that means she's a horrible person.

Well guess what? Just because someone thinks differently then you doesn't make them a bad person.
Misunderstanding....

I never said she was a bad person, she just does not understand kids. Sorry for the confusion.

And one for you too LillyWDW
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:48 PM   #122
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As for the topic on hand...

Maybe I missed it, but I have not read anyone say "OMG kids are horrible and no matter what is happening they shouldn't be allowed places!!!!"

Instead, I have seen people simply ASK for parents to think of those around them when their kids have an issue. We are being asked to "deal" with the kids... so why shouldn't the consideration be returned? All those of us who are taking this side are asking for is that if the child's issue is negatively effecting the people around them, then do something about it. At least TRY and don't ignore what is going on. It may work at home to ignore it, but at home you don't have hundreds of strangers around you.

Quote:
However I don't see how it's "punishing everyone else" to pull her to the side until she calmed down. And that is my point exactly. It seems like some people have this unreasonable expectation that they won't ever have to hear a crying kid in the parks. We were not in a show, we were not in line. But what I gather from some of these posts is that I should have removed my crying child from Epcot altogether. Now how does that work? If I bring my screaming child on the bus to go back to the resort because that is what some people think is the appropriate consequence for having a tantrum in public, am I not inconveniencing the people on the bus now?
I have not seen this "unreasonable expectation" that you are talking about, but I may have missed it. Personally I don't think you needed to take her back. You removed her from the majority of the crowd to an area where you could handle it. That IS doing something. You didn't just let her get in line and scream... you took some consideration for those around you and I thank you for that.

But see, we're not asking for much. Something as small as finding a "quiet" corner is a huge thing. Just don't do NOTHING and expect people to just deal with a screaming child in a restaurant, show, or line.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:52 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Puffles View Post
Misunderstanding....

I never said she was a bad person, she just does not understand kids. Sorry for the confusion.

And one for you too LillyWDW
If it was a misunderstanding, then I apologize for jumping at you.

However, I will be blunt...

The lines that were out of line were:

Quote:
you don't seem so lucky if you don't have kids, and dont want them
and

Quote:
I wish you better than a house full of cats.
They came across as very judgmental and condescending. If they were badly worded, then whatever. However, you have to remember that we are on a message board and these sorts of things will come across a certain way.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:53 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by luckyprincess View Post
Me too.
I'm not going to get into a point-by-point back and forth over this, because the fact of the matter is, we probably agree about how handle tantrums and poor behavior more than we disagree.


HOWEVER...

Like Puffles just said - it is much, MUCH easier to look at a situation from the outside and exclaim "Well, this is how I would do it..." than it is to actually be in the middle of the situation itself.

This is true of many things, and it is ESPECIALLY true of parenting. I have dealt with a lot of stress in my life, both in my personal life and my career. NONE OF IT prepared me for the unique pressures of parenting. I'm not saying I'm "better," " superior," have stronger morals, better values, whatever. What I am saying is that your post kind of came off in a sort of "I know better even though I've never been in that situation" kind of way.

I'll give you a brief example of the challenges of parenting and why people get defensive about it, and this will barely do it justice: Try handling yourself emotionally the first time that you discipline your child - maybe particularly harshly - and when the tantrum, the punishment, the resistance, the tears, the wailing, etc., are all over, your child says to you "but Daddy, I was just trying to..." and you realize that YOU were the one in the wrong.

It's a stomach-punch like no other to feel that you've just imprinted some negative memory/behavior/action/emotion on a little person that trusts and loves you unconditionally, and that imprint will last a lifetime and effect them long, long after the encounter.

This happens to every parent just about every day - that gnawing "was I right?" feeling that you will NEVER get used to (never mind that you'll never get the answer to, either).

I guaran-darn-tee you that your dad, if he'd ever had to "pack you up and go home," he would have questioned that decision for the rest of his life.

Like I said, it's a feeling like no other to have to make those kinds of decisions that can alter the course of a young life.


One of the greatest parents in literary history said it better than I'd ever be able to: "If you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view, until you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it." (Bless you, Harper Lee )
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:57 PM   #125
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Quote:
But see, we're not asking for much. Something as small as finding a "quiet" corner is a huge thing. Just don't do NOTHING and expect people to just deal with a screaming child in a restaurant, show, or line.
And I agree with this.

So probably we're not all really disagreeing here. Perhaps I misintrepreted the statement about "ignoring" crying children. When I read that my automatic thought was... "But that's what works for DD sometimes, ignoring it, refusing to feed into the drama and attention-seeking."

If by "ignoring" everyone means literally refusing to ever address any bad behaviors even when the behaviors are clearly infringing on others' rights, then I apologize for the misinterpretation.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:06 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azree View Post
I'm not going to get into a point-by-point back and forth over this, because the fact of the matter is, we probably agree about how handle tantrums and poor behavior more than we disagree.


HOWEVER...

Like Puffles just said - it is much, MUCH easier to look at a situation from the outside and exclaim "Well, this is how I would do it..." than it is to actually be in the middle of the situation itself.

This is true of many things, and it is ESPECIALLY true of parenting. I have dealt with a lot of stress in my life, both in my personal life and my career. NONE OF IT prepared me for the unique pressures of parenting. I'm not saying I'm "better," " superior," have stronger morals, better values, whatever. What I am saying is that your post kind of came off in a sort of "I know better even though I've never been in that situation" kind of way.

I'll give you a brief example of the challenges of parenting and why people get defensive about it, and this will barely do it justice: Try handling yourself emotionally the first time that you discipline your child - maybe particularly harshly - and when the tantrum, the punishment, the resistance, the tears, the wailing, etc., are all over, your child says to you "but Daddy, I was just trying to..." and you realize that YOU were the one in the wrong.

It's a stomach-punch like no other to feel that you've just imprinted some negative memory/behavior/action/emotion on a little person that trusts and loves you unconditionally, and that imprint will last a lifetime and effect them long, long after the encounter.

This happens to every parent just about every day - that gnawing "was I right?" feeling that you will NEVER get used to (never mind that you'll never get the answer to, either).

I guaran-darn-tee you that your dad, if he'd ever had to "pack you up and go home," he would have questioned that decision for the rest of his life.

Like I said, it's a feeling like no other to have to make those kinds of decisions that can alter the course of a young life.


One of the greatest parents in literary history said it better than I'd ever be able to: "If you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view, until you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it." (Bless you, Harper Lee )
Very True Azree,

Ill be at CBR in less than two weeks. My 12 year old boy and my 8 year old boy will be gold. My 2 1/2 daughter will be a pill as I have figured out just tonight. There is no controlling the meltdowns of her im sure. Its going to be tough....last year she was amazing but she is now in her terrible two's , she agrivates me daily, but she is cute as a button.

Don't sit near me if you want a peacefull meal.

Puffles
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Puffles View Post
Don't sit near me if you want a peacefull meal.

Puffles
should we include this request in our ADRs?

Last edited by smidgy; 09-07-2010 at 10:17 PM. Reason: do you know you can't add a smilie in an edit?
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:11 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffles View Post
Very True Azree,

Ill be at CBR in less than two weeks. My 12 year old boy and my 8 year old boy will be gold. My 2 1/2 daughter will be a pill as I have figured out just tonight. There is no controlling the meltdowns of her im sure. Its going to be tough....last year she was amazing but she is now in her terrible two's , she agrivates me daily, but she is cute as a button.

Don't sit near me if you want a peacefull meal.

Puffles
We will be there the same time then. If I see you with a toddler having a melt down it will attract a look from me. It will however not be a "please control your brat" look which it sounds like some in this thread have perfected ~ but instead will be a "been there and I am so sorry you have to go through this"

I'm not saying that there aren't parents out there that don't parent of course there are ~ but don't judge or offer parenting advice when you don't know an entire story ~ and the only way for that to happen is if you have been with that family 24/7 on their vacation.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:11 PM   #129
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Honestly, my kids have never acted up enough for anyone, other than me, to notice. I do keep a close eye on them always and remind them to keep a distance from the people around them, and be courteous of other people's stuff.

I think the best thing you can do with kids who are acting up is take a break from the park and crowds. When my kids start getting whiney and lean on me, I know it's time to get out of there, regardless of what my plans are. The key when traveling with kids is being prepared to change your plans, everyday.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:18 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffles View Post
luckyprincess, you don't seem so lucky if you don't have kids, and dont want them. And you are not very Mickeyish for those that do. You post on the subject but do not have the experiance to post on what you don't know. I wish you better than a house full of cats.
Nice. I hope you are teaching your kids better manners than what you are modeling here.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:20 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by luckyprincess View Post
Thank you! My mother always said in response to how difficult it is to raise kids: 'it's not rocket science, you just need common sense and love'. Of course those were the days before parenting books, validating tantrums and negotiating good behavior


I haven't read the whole thread, just skimmed it. But, I think you've hit it on the head. People need to stop making excuses for their children's behavior. Meltdowns are not "normal" kid stuff. Not every child has them. My kid doesn't do it, so why do I have to listen to someone else's?
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:21 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Puffles View Post
luckyprincess, you don't seem so lucky if you don't have kids, and dont want them. And you are not very Mickeyish for those that do. You post on the subject but do not have the experiance to post on what you don't know. I wish you better than a house full of cats.
Lol - what? What does that mean - that people that don't want children are unlucky? I don't get it! Why is procreation supposed to be my dream? Really - that was crazy out of left field! My bf and I have a gorgeous home with a great pool, gorgeous dog, active lives and lots of very nice opportunities that I know other people would like to have - so yes, we're very lucky! To have a house full of kids might be great for you, but to me that would be very unlucky - to each his own!

And I have experience in seeing people ignore their kids bad behavior - and so I'm posting on it
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:22 PM   #133
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I had to read the entire thread to see if someone mentioned my son's temper tantrum from last week at DHS. We were at the store near the "honey I shrunk the kids" play area that has toy story and marvel characters things. My son saw some toy he wanted as soon as he walked in. Great. He wants it, he can get it. He has plenty of birthday money to spend. All I asked was that he look around the entire store to make sure that was the toy he wanted. I told him he could get it. He did not like my idea so he stood there angry. I explained to him once again that if he looked at the entire shop and decided he still wanted that toy he could get it. He still did not want to look around and started acting up. I decided it was time to physically remove him so DH picked him up and we started heading out. We got to a little circle garden thing and he went all out. My ds4 was going crazy, kicking, screaming, crying, the full show. I sat down on the curb and held him tight. I just held him as long as I could with all his screaming and kicking. It was not easy, but I sat there with him in my arms as long as I could. He scratched me to the point of breaking my skin. I also bruised where he was grabbing my arm and on my leg from when he was kicking. He was beyond ridiculous. This was the first time he had ever acted to this extreme. I know my son. When he is like this it doesn't matter if I yell, spank, time out, give angry your in trouble faces, speak firmly, ignore, take away privledges, bribe, he will continue until he is done and calm. I did not say a word to him as I was holding him. I held him as long as I could and when he got out of my arms he ran and hid under a table across from us. I did not acknowledge him and he eventually came to me and knew he did something wrong and appoligized without me asking him to do so. At that point I explained that his behavior was ridiculous and he was done for the day. We left the park without getting the toy he wanted and not even going on TSM . At that point he understood he messed up completely and he started doing the "I'm so sorry, please forgive me" cry. I replied to him once that his behavior was horrible and we had to leave the park for the day and we continued to leave.
While he was under the table at least 3 people walked by to console me and tell me I did a good job. I might have gotten a rude look or maybe someone made a comment regarding his behavior, but I was too busy trying to control him to notice. By the time he ran out of my arms I was on the verge of tears. It was his absolute worst behavior ever.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:23 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Suellen View Post
We will be there the same time then. If I see you with a toddler having a melt down it will attract a look from me. It will however not be a "please control your brat" look which it sounds like some in this thread have perfected ~ but instead will be a "been there and I am so sorry you have to go through this"

I'm not saying that there aren't parents out there that don't parent of course there are ~ but don't judge or offer parenting advice when you don't know an entire story ~ and the only way for that to happen is if you have been with that family 24/7 on their vacation.
Mickeyish!
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:24 PM   #135
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I now find that my son is grown up that when I am at the magic kingdom I watch alot of other peoples kids to see the ups and downs that we once had with our son!Now I know tantrums aren't fun when they are happening to you but I get a chuckle out of it.I think mom and dad will be telling the kids about it when they grow up.It'll go something like, I remember when you had a tantrum and embarassed me at such and such gift store on vacation at disney,Etc,etc,etc.Believe me ,watching kids at disney is great you get to see tantrums ,fights,mom and dad yelling,kids being afraid to go on rides and the whole gambit.Very very rarely does any of this bother me.I like to see kids eyes light up when they ride the rides, see the characters,or pass out in thier strollers on the way out of the park.Kid watching is a great pass time. Brings back alot of memories for parents whos kids are raised! So I doubt you will see me complain about anyones kids,but please pardon me if I am laughing.I'm not laughing at you I am laughing with you!
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