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Old 07-27-2010, 12:05 PM   #31
Justin Jett
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Originally Posted by jcb View Post
Speaking for myself, I hope you don't "bow out" from the discussion. I mean, we don't need to beat a dead horse here but your views are as valid anyone's. It is just that folks here get rather "lively" about this topic and they expect others to defend their assertions.

Now, I am not saying I agree with your comment that it is "silly" for society to force folks to sit, but I do respect your opinion and willingness to speak up.
I totally agree with Jack. Differing opinions are what keep America great. Please do not be afraid to express yourself at anytime

Life is going full speed for me right now, but this issue is extremely important to me, and I will TAKE all the time needed to talk about it. Please know that I do not mean to pick on you, just a spirited debate. I will ALWAYS be here to defend Disney in this matter.

I just dont want Disney to ever say "No matter what we do, somebody will sue us." and then cutback on their accessibility efforts.

Lastly Kaligal, I appreciate your honest answers to my questions. Not everyone in the great Segway debate have been willing/able to answer questions that I have posted.

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If nothing else, you give Skip someone to debate with and we all know how he loves to do that!
GO GATORS!!!
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:08 PM   #32
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GO GATORS!!!
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:17 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by roomthreeseventeen View Post
What's the difference between a golf car and a golf cart?
"Golf Car" is the politically correct term for Golf Cart.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:20 PM   #34
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Gators get discounted admission anytime. Volunteers get discounted admission for only one day.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:52 AM   #35
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A fantastic response from KPeveler, a DIS Moderator:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=25

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Originally Posted by KPeveler View Post
Because until this rule is law, a Segway is NOT an approved mobility device and as such Disney did not have to let them in.

I expect Segways to NOT be allowed in any queues or attractions, as those are not "pedestrian" areas (there are already many queues in which wheelchairs of a certain size or type and ECVs are not allowed in - there is a reason I do not ride Pirates anymore!). There are also restrictions about height and body shape to get on rides, and people who are unable to ride due to height restrictions are NOT allowed in the queue. So all these people you suggested if they cannot walk for the queues are going to have to transfer to a wheelchair when they get to the queue. Or not ride. This ruling will just make things more complicated.

And it is not the experienced user that worries me. It will be all the people who rent one "for fun" from the companies that will spring up over the next 6 months.

I am also pretty sure that any place where a CM has to move the wheelchair from entrance to exit will not allow Segways, since a CM would not know how to move one. So they will have to park it at the exit and either walk around to the entrance and wait in the queue, or take a wheelchair...

The reason you are the very first person on this board to support the use of Segways in the parks is that pretty much all of us were offended by the wording of the people behind the original lawsuit. They called the use of wheelchairs "demeaning." Since most of us here use wheelchairs or ECV or who have family members who do, we are offended since we are not "demeaned" by our way of life.

Yes, you should not choose what wheelchair I use, but you DO have the right to ask places you go not to allow me to use unapproved mobility devices, such as Segways or my PT Cruiser. my car is easier to use and more comfortable than my wheelchair - can I use that on Mainstreet? What about a 2-person golf cart since my wife also has problems walking too long?

Yes, Segways are now going to be "other mobility devices" but we have to be careful how we define things... And what language we use...

Just a question - a 6'6" tall person get a segway, which makes him 7'6" at least. Are the bus doors tall enough? Including a lift bus? What happens then? I suppose the person has to get off and allow the person to walk on, and a member of their party get the Segway on. A bus driver is not allowed to move the mobility devices on.

How does one secure a segway on the bus? It must be tied down and the person must sit in a regular bus seat. The person "holding on" would not be acceptable for a device that tall and heavy.

A bus is not a "pedestrian area" and I am not sure if there is anything in that new law about public transit. Can anyone figure that out for us?

The law also says that the device must be able to be safely stored (as in at the end of the ride) - that rules out a lot of rides that do not have room to store them - even RnR puts the ECVs all the way at the exit ramp past the store, so the person with one leg will have to walk that far.

I will NOT be okay with them allowing people to park a Segway in the handicapped spots in the theatres and then sit in a regular seat - those spots are for people who CANNOT transfer, and obviously the person cannot stand on their segway the whole time (it will be a safety issue during 3D shows especially) and sometimes the accessible seating is in the front of the theatre, so THAT will not work.

These are just the issues I can come up with within 10 minutes of getting up...
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:31 AM   #36
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Really, this seems to boil down to the original intentions of the vehicle. Vehicles designed for use by handicapped individuals at fine, those designed fir other purposes aren't. PT Cruisers and jet packs, while they can help a handicapped visitor get from A to B easier, they weren't originally purposed for specific use as a means of increasing a disabled person's mobility. ECVs and all sorts of wheelchairs (including ones for standing) are. As long as there exists alternatives, I see no reason to start adding potentially dangerous devices in with the mix.

While I may not be in need of a wheelchair or other similar device currently, I feel that my experience with having both my brother an father in wheelchairs gives me some background regarding the mobility of disabled individuals.
It's amazing all the places we've managed to go together. Trips to Costco with two wheelchairs and a shopping cart are always fun. The look on the park rangers' faces at Grant's tomb was priceless after I took them both up the dozens of steps in their chairs!
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:56 PM   #37
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This is interesting:

http://www.wheelchairjunkie.com/foru...0351#Post30351

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Unlike this forum the Disboard has to answer to your sponcers. I know you will tell me that Dis is a independent group but the adds tell me otherwise.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:35 PM   #38
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It comes down to this:

ECV's and ESV's are deliberately designed with purpose in mind- pedestrianised areas, keeping the safety of both user and pedestrian at its core. It also works on a simple principle that almost anyone with any driving or bike riding experience can adjust to with minimal hassle.

Segways are not designed as a mobility aid and are a recreational device, therefore are not intrinsically designed to be safe in the same scenarios. Segway did not design with Disney's Christmas day crowds in mind, but rather wide open spaces with limited pedestrians. It also takes time to understand the movement of these machines, and Disney can not determine how adapt these people are with them. Disney does not let you do the Epcot Segway tour if you cannot pass the original safety tests.

The lack of correct storage, movement (say by CM's doing transfers) and other safety concerns mean that right now Segways are not appropriate. However if they did make one with limited speed, adequate stopping, easy storage and with an override function so could be moved by someone not operating fairly easily- then it wouldn't be a problem
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:49 PM   #39
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I read it, and this made me angry!

Firstly- he hasn't a clue about anything on this board, he cannot make judgements! Our vote of confidence decides the sponsors, not the other way round!!

Secondly- We have no objection to Segways as a concept, or even as a mobility device, if it met the same standards as ECV's and ESV's. But they don't. They weren't designed to. Until the point where they can be as easily and safely manoeuvred without the fear of litigation, the ADA will have to work on a two tier system.

Thirdly- After working with both children and adults with learning disabilities for years, I understand how difficult terminology can be. But how dare he criticise the way you phrase yourself at the end. That kind of nit picking is what is causing the backlash amongst people with not using correct terminology at all!! If it is not meant unkindly (which it obviously wasn't since you were referring to yourself) then just let it lie! If people feel whatever they say, they will be villanised, they start using language which really is deeply offensive. This I know from almost constant personal experience.

Sorry for the rant, but posts like that really irritate me! There are ways of saying things, and posting like that isn't going to win people over to his side of the argument at all!
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:58 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by wishspirit
Thirdly- After working with both children and adults with learning disabilities for years, I understand how difficult terminology can be. But how dare he criticise the way you phrase yourself at the end.
I considered joining that site solely to criticize tarkus's horrible spelling and word usage, and then ONLY because he/she had the nerve to reprimand Justin!!!!
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:20 PM   #41
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Someone corrected him.
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Last edited by Justin Jett; 07-29-2010 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:42 PM   #42
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All I have to say to this is "Meg Crofton."
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:43 PM   #43
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Wow. After checking out that other forum I am comforted to know that all communities are ripping each other apart. The autism community does the same thing! Makes the DIS pool hopping and mug sharing and stroller debates seem like child's play.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #44
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This person needs to get............................................... .......cake.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:53 PM   #45
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This person needs to get............................................... .......cake.
I would suggest pie, but cake will do!
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