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Old 07-27-2010, 09:10 AM   #16
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The new regulations are interesting for another reason (forget about Segways for the moment). Think back to Kevin's experience in going to Candlelight processional and being told there was a limit on the number of folks who could sit with his mom (who uses a wheel chair). Kevin, John and Kevin's father (who I think was also present) would have been "companions" as the ADA regulations use the term:

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For purposes of this section, "companion" means a family member, friend, or associate of an individual seeking access to, or participating in, the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a public accommodation, who, along with such individual, is an appropriate person with whom the public accommodation should communicate.
In the Appendix (explanation) to the new final rule (Skip linked to it above), the Justice department explained that:

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the final rule requires public accommodations to make available for purchase three additional tickets for seats in the same row that are contiguous with the wheelchair space, provided that at the time of purchase there are three such seats available. The requirement that the additional seats be "contiguous with the wheelchair space" does not mean that each of the additional seats must be in actual contact or have a border in common with the wheelchair space; however, at least one of the additional seats should be immediately adjacent to the wheelchair space. The Department recognizes that it will often be necessary to use vacant wheelchair spaces to provide for contiguous seating.
There are exceptions to this for when there are insufficient unsold seats or where the ticket office restricts sales of tickets to a particular event to less than four tickets per customer.

Exactly how this might affect Candlelight processional seating remains to be seen. As I recall, specific seats are not reserved. I don't think that should matter. Otherwise, it would permit any assembly area to avoid the ADA companionship seating requirements merely by not selling reserved seats.

Hopefully, it won't be an issue.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:14 AM   #17
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What about them? Or what about jet packs, cars or space shuttles?

I don't argue non-issues. People against gay marriage routinely ask if people can marry dogs or chairs. They say that if you can marry whomever you love, you should be able to marry your dog. Or a 5 year old girl. Etc., etc.

I don't argue that. It isn't the issue at hand.

There are plenty of people who cannot walk, but could use a Segway or whatever they may come up with next. I think they should be able to do that. And I think that it'll work out just fine. The world won't end. It won't be a catastrophe.

It'll be just like when they finally allowed power wheelchairs. Yeah, there is an occasional accident. But the folks in the power chairs are better off and we, as a society, are better for allowing them. If it makes us step aside once in while, whup. (That's a little whup. Not a big one.)
There was a time when they didnt allow power wheelchairs? When was that?
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:16 AM   #18
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:22 AM   #19
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So with the new ADA rules doesnt this mean that there will have to change things at Wizarding World of Harry Potter of where people in wheelchairs are not able to get in or out of the shopping experiences etc?
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:24 AM   #20
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There was a time when they didnt allow power wheelchairs? When was that?
Oh, Lord. People squaked themselves sick over it. There are still people on these boards who suggest that they shouldn't be allowed at Disney. You must see it on occasion.

I happen to be related to a person who cannot sit for extended periods and could never walk long distances, but who could have gone places like WDW with a standing device had they existed before he got too dang sick to make any trips at all. He'd have loved to have gone. It breaks my heart that he never did and never will.

I've recently found out that I may become one of those people in a couple decades. I might not, but I might. But I was for it loooong before I found out that I have an illness that for some people becomes debilitating.

But that quashed any wishy-washiness I might have developed. My mind isn't changing.

I assume that yours won't, either.

eta: I'm not arguing that places should change to accommodate anyone. I just think that if people CAN do something, they shouldn't be stopped. If some woman owns a little store that has aisles too small for wheelchairs or Segways, she shouldn't be forced out of business. If there is a ride that can't accommodate a chair or Segway, then the people who use it are just out of luck.

But if the chance exists that people who are able to do something could...I do not now, nor have I ever supported the attempt to stop them. And I especially don't support it when the reason is, "We don't think you need it. We are better off if you don't. So are you."

Last edited by kaligal; 07-27-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by kaligal View Post
I think that eventually, society will see that it is silly to force people to sit and will allow the new technology to be utilized.
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The Department noted in the NPRM that it sought a definition of "wheelchair" that would include manually-operated and power-driven wheelchairs and mobility scooters (i.e., those that typically are single-user, have three to four wheels, and are appropriate for both indoor and outdoor pedestrian areas), as well as a variety of types of wheelchairs and mobility scooters with individualized or unique features or models with different numbers of wheels. The NPRM defined a wheelchair as "a device designed solely for use by an individual with a mobility impairment for the primary purpose of locomotion in typical indoor and outdoor pedestrian areas.
The Electric Standing Vehicles that Disney provides fit the above definition. ESV's give people a choice. People with a choice are not FORCED into anything. If people dont want to sit, get an ESV or the standing chairs that maroo spoke of. If people dont want an ESV, ECV's are available. Yes, there are a limited number of ECV's and ESV's. In that case.....get there early.

Me, on the other hand.....I am (as you say) "forced to sit."
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:34 AM   #22
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The Electric Standing Vehicles that Disney provides fit the above definition. ESV's give people a choice. People with a choice are not FORCED into anything. If people dont want to sit, get an ESV or the standing chairs that maroo spoke of. If people dont want an ESV, ECV's are available. Yes, there are a limited number of ECV's and ESV's. In that case.....get there early.

Me, on the other hand.....I am (as you say) "forced to sit."
Why must they get that? Why can't they use the Segway?
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:35 AM   #23
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Why must they get that? Why can't they use the Segway?
You can.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:46 AM   #24
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Why must they get that? Why can't they use the Segway?
The Segway goes 12MPH
A Segway cannot come to a sudden stop.
A Segway is not "a device designed solely for use by an individual with a mobility impairment for the primary purpose of locomotion in typical indoor and outdoor pedestrian areas."
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:51 AM   #25
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He'd have loved to have gone. It breaks my heart that he never did and never will.
Why cant he go???? ESV's are available!

What would he do if the Segway had never been invented?
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:53 AM   #26
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The Segway goes 12MPH
A Segway cannot come to a sudden stop.
A Segway is not "a device designed solely for use by an individual with a mobility impairment for the primary purpose of locomotion in typical indoor and outdoor pedestrian areas."
A Segway can go 12 mph. Doesn't mean it has to. Or that it would be able to in a crowded area. I've navigated Disney with someone in a chair. It's often hard for us to go 1 mph.

People don't always come to sudden stops, either. Nor do wheelchairs. Car's can't suddenly stop. Yeah, there are accidents sometimes. Yeah, there will be accidents with the Segways. Doesn't change my mind.

The fact that Segways weren't labeled as devices for the handicapped doesn't mean they can't be used by those people. They aren't labeled that way - so what?

I'm going to bow out. I know my opinion isn't the popular one. I know that my mind won't change and it will take others a long, long time, even if there is hope of them changing theirs.

I still believe what I believe and I feel strongly about it, which is why I had to represent , but I'll quit bugging people.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:54 AM   #27
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Why cant he go???? ESV's are available!

What would he do if the Segway had never been invented?
He has many problems and is now too sick to go anywhere.

And he'd do what he did. Not do things he couldn't do. That's how his life went. I hope others get better.

I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you, but I really am getting off now.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #28
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A Segway can go 12 mph. Doesn't mean it has to.
I agree that the Segway can go slow, but there is no guarantee that EVERY Segway user WILL go slow. What would be a safe speed limit for Disney to impose on Segways? How would Disney enforce such a speed limit?

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People don't always come to sudden stops, either. Nor do wheelchairs. Car's can't suddenly stop.
Technically, you are correct. However, a wheelchair can stop quicker than a Segway. I would welcome a test to prove my wheelchair can quicker than a Segway.

Quote:
The fact that Segways weren't labeled as devices for the handicapped doesn't mean they can't be used by those people.
You are absolutly correct. However, a Segway IS indeed a safety hazard in a theme park environment.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:35 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by kaligal View Post
He has many problems and is now too sick to go anywhere.

And he'd do what he did. Not do things he couldn't do. That's how his life went. I hope others get better.

I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you, but I really am getting off now.
Speaking for myself, I hope you don't "bow out" from the discussion. I mean, we don't need to beat a dead horse here but your views are as valid aas anyone's. It is just that folks here get rather "lively" about this topic and they expect others to defend their assertions.

Now, I am not saying I agree with your comment that it is "silly" for society to force folks to sit, but I do respect your opinion and willingness to speak up. If nothing else, you give Skip someone to debate with and we all know how he loves to do that!
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:40 AM   #30
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He has many problems and is now too sick to go anywhere.
I am very sorry to hear that, and I sincerely apologize for the "Why cant he go????" question.

Your previous post came across as he stayed home because of the Segway issue. My intent was to debate you, not offend you.
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