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Old 10-14-2009, 12:41 PM   #31
Justin Jett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert_Glider View Post
Another part of the issue is Disney's high profile in the industry.

For example, a few zoos around the country have been (or recently started) denying Segway access (for persons with qualifying disabilities) based on Disney's denial of access.

This is the "snowball" effect that makes their complete ban problematic in other venues throughout the country.

The updated ADA guidance forthcoming from the US Dept. of Justice should (hopefully) put this issue to rest.
Is any legal action being taken against the zoos? Most theme parks do not allow Segways, although Universal does allow them in.

Why is Disney being singled out?
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Justin Jett View Post
Is any legal action being taken against the zoos? Most theme parks do not allow Segways, although Universal does allow them in.

Why is Disney being singled out?
Busch Entertainment is also high profile in the industry. I have read (on other message boards) that Segways have been denied access. Why is only Disney ever mentioned in the mainstream?
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:49 AM   #33
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Busch Entertainment is also high profile in the industry. I have read (on other message boards) that Segways have been denied access. Why is only Disney ever mentioned in the mainstream?
I'll just pickup this thread where Skip left it off. The Sentinel has a story about a different kind of two wheeled assistive device (called an IBOT) and the "ruckus" it caused this last weekend.

If what WDW says is true - that they "ask" users of two wheel devices to use four wheels while boarding attractions - I am not sure I see the significance of this as a news story. I suppose what makes this a newsworthy story is the allegation that WDW "harassed and followed" the individual.

And a short update on the lawsuit. The original suing parties asked the judge to reconsider the dismissal. He denied the request in a one page order. They have appealed to the federal court of appeals in Atlanta. It takes a while to get an appeal decided and I don't expect a decision for about a year give or take a few months.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:50 AM   #34
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The IBOT was actually a 4-wheeled wheelchair that uses Segway technology to allow it to balance on two wheels. It was discontinued last year.

Users had to be certified to operate the IBOT, and it had a "black box" to record all operations. I was certified for the IBOT, but it was not covered by insurance.

The IBOT required training and certification to operate it safely. To me....the same rules should be put in place for a Segway. Also, the IBOT's computer regulated the speed while in the balance mode. Segway speed could also be regulated.

www.ibotnow.com
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:00 AM   #35
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Let me also add that the IBOT was a perscribed device. It required a physician and therapist approval. The IBOT was designed as a medical device.

The Segway HT is a spinoff of the IBOT. Segway was first to market, because the IBOT was subject to FDA trials.

The IBOT appeared in Innoventions in the late 1990's

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Old 11-30-2009, 10:43 PM   #36
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After researching the IBOT "ruckus" situation, I must agree with Disney. If the guy was using the IBOT in "balance mode" then it does indeed fall under the Segway ban.

The man should have entered the park in "standard mode." The quoted statement “I’m not going down on four wheels, no way,” is purely a guest not following cast member instructions.

The IBOT Manual states:

"While driving in a noisy, sunny environment, the audible
tones and the display are difficult to hear and see, which
may result in an automatic transition. To avoid this
occurrence, you may want to consider transitioning out
of Balance Function into either 4-Wheel Function or
Standard Function when the environment prevents you
from hearing or seeing potential caution and warning
signals on the UCP."

"Never transition into or drive in Balance Function on
wet, uneven, unstable or slippery surfaces.
The iBOT® Mobility System uses friction to maintain its
balance and could slip on some surfaces. Personal
injury or death could result. Always transition and drive
on dry, even, stable, and relatively level, slip-resistant
surfaces."

"Allow for 9.2 feet (2.8 meters) of braking distance
when traveling at top speed in Balance Function.
Balance Function requires a greater stopping distance
than other functions. Braking without considering the
required stopping distance could result in personal
injury. Always be aware of the needed braking
distance. Reduce speed in congested or confined
areas."

I am speaking from my own IBOT experiences in the summer of 2007
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:36 AM   #37
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He is shown in the photo with his family.

He is not travelling at top speed. He is going with his family at walking speed. I'm sure there are similar warnings with your chair too.

He just wants to be at (or close to) eye level with others.

Disney has banned Segways (even though their Cast Members use them and they offer public tours) and now they are trying to ban the iBOT. The weight and speed of Bounders has been brought up as well as other chairs that may not "fit" Disney's idea of what is OK.

But it is not Disney's choice because they are a "place of public accommodation"...it is the individuals choice (protected by the ADA) as long as they are not a "direct threat" to others. A "direct threat" cannot be imagined...it has to be real and provable by objective measures.

Is this gentleman, moving about with his family in his iBOT, a direct threat?

Once Disney is allowed to thumb their nose at some mobility devices (Segways), other infractions will surely follow.....hence the iBOT ruckus.

This is not the end...just the beginning.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:46 AM   #38
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I'm very pro-Segway and feel that people who can't walk but don't have to sit shouldn't be forced to sit because someone else feels that is best for them.

I believe that in time, society will catch up with the technology. Once upon a time, people didn't want motorized wheelchairs, either. Hell, some still don't. The Segway's time will come just like it did for scooters and such.

I specifically like how the Segways are safe and just peachy when the Disney employees are riding around on them...but the customers can't use 'em.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert_Glider View Post
He is shown in the photo with his family.

He is not travelling at top speed. He is going with his family at walking speed. I'm sure there are similar warnings with your chair too.

He just wants to be at (or close to) eye level with others.

Disney has banned Segways (even though their Cast Members use them and they offer public tours) and now they are trying to ban the iBOT. The weight and speed of Bounders has been brought up as well as other chairs that may not "fit" Disney's idea of what is OK.

But it is not Disney's choice because they are a "place of public accommodation"...it is the individuals choice (protected by the ADA) as long as they are not a "direct threat" to others. A "direct threat" cannot be imagined...it has to be real and provable by objective measures.

Is this gentleman, moving about with his family in his iBOT, a direct threat?

Once Disney is allowed to thumb their nose at some mobility devices (Segways), other infractions will surely follow.....hence the iBOT ruckus.

This is not the end...just the beginning.
There are plenty of pictures of people using an IBOT in standard mode at Walt Disney World. Some on Independence Technologies' own website. The picture of the man in question at Walt Disney World clearly shows him using the chair in in standard mode.

This is no different than "Please keep your arms and legs inside the train at all times." Safety Rules! As someone who has used the IBOT, I uderstand why these rules were put into place.

The cast members would have allowed him into the park, if he was in standard mode. As I posted before, there are rules (set by Indepence Technologies) for using the IBOT in balance mode. These rules were put in place for SAFETY reasons. There are countless accidents caused by IBOT users who ignore the training and certification. To see these reports, please search the FDA's website for Adverse Event Reports about the IBOT.

It is important to once again note that the IBOT is a medical mobility device, but the Segway HT is NOT a medical mobility device. The Segway HT literature clearly states that the Segway HT is not DESIGNED to be a medical device. Does the ADA condone using a device outside the MANUFACTURER'S design parameters???

Segway has designed HT's for golf, law enforcement, and off-roading. They could easily design one for medical mobility.

Why hasn't Segway designed a HT to be a medical mobility device?
Are the Segway users able to operate an ECV?
Why are financial awards and vacations being saught by the group?
How is WDW "violating the ADA," when they are making wheelchairs and ECV's available to guests?

WDW makes REASONABLE accomodations for a very wide range of diabilities. I cannot find any fault or violation of the ADA. If anyone can give me a paragraph or section of the ADA that proves a basis for the lawsuit, please clarify it for me.

If the judge's decision was a "victory for the disabled," why did the plaintiffs ask the judge to reconsider his decision????

That will do it for this edition of "The Skip Fully Charged." And remember.....STAY OFF THE DARN SEGWAYS!
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:42 AM   #40
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That will do it for this edition of "The Skip Fully Charged." And remember.....STAY OFF THE DARN SEGWAYS!
You make me laugh.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:46 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Jett View Post
There are plenty of pictures of people using an IBOT in standard mode at Walt Disney World. Some on Independence Technologies' own website. The picture of the man in question at Walt Disney World clearly shows him using the chair in in standard mode.

This is no different than "Please keep your arms and legs inside the train at all times." Safety Rules! As someone who has used the IBOT, I uderstand why these rules were put into place.

The cast members would have allowed him into the park, if he was in standard mode. As I posted before, there are rules (set by Indepence Technologies) for using the IBOT in balance mode. These rules were put in place for SAFETY reasons. There are countless accidents caused by IBOT users who ignore the training and certification. To see these reports, please search the FDA's website for Adverse Event Reports about the IBOT.

It is important to once again note that the IBOT is a medical mobility device, but the Segway HT is NOT a medical mobility device. The Segway HT literature clearly states that the Segway HT is not DESIGNED to be a medical device. Does the ADA condone using a device outside the MANUFACTURER'S design parameters???

Segway has designed HT's for golf, law enforcement, and off-roading. They could easily design one for medical mobility.

Why hasn't Segway designed a HT to be a medical mobility device?
Are the Segway users able to operate an ECV?
Why are financial awards and vacations being saught by the group?
How is WDW "violating the ADA," when they are making wheelchairs and ECV's available to guests?

WDW makes REASONABLE accomodations for a very wide range of diabilities. I cannot find any fault or violation of the ADA. If anyone can give me a paragraph or section of the ADA that proves a basis for the lawsuit, please clarify it for me.

If the judge's decision was a "victory for the disabled," why did the plaintiffs ask the judge to reconsider his decision????

That will do it for this edition of "The Skip Fully Charged." And remember.....STAY OFF THE DARN SEGWAYS!
Well said.




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Old 12-01-2009, 03:50 PM   #42
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Skip....you are amazing.
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:24 PM   #43
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It's great to hear the information from someone really in the know!

Thanks Skip, its great to get the insiders opinion!
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Old 12-01-2009, 05:50 PM   #44
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Thank you all....

Jack is the one who understands the "legal stuff." That part totally over the head of this community college student.

When it comes to the Segway HT....my knowledge comes from what has been published on Segway's website and in the media. I will never be able to experience a Segway.

I do believe in the IBOT as a wheelchair! I have been fascinated by the IBOT ever since I saw it in Innoventions for the first time. In 2007, I went through the full training course and I passed all but one of the certification test. I was completely terrified of stair climbing mode, and refused to even try it. Yes, I am a big chicken! I dont ride Haunted Mansion. My Dad has tried to get me in there for 20 years, but I will NOT go!

What really pushes my buttons about this lawsuit is the talk of Disney violating the ADA, and being "unfair to the disabled." If that were true, would I be on a Disney fansite? November 15-19, I went to WDW totally by myself. I took a bus to have lunch with the podcast team. If there was any true ADA violation, my trip would not have been possible

I am 34 years old.....my disability has changed over the years.

From stroller-style pushchair to ECV
From ECV to standard powerchair
From standard powerchair to custom powerchair, with supports for my head and trunk, as well as foot holders.

Life changes as my disability changes. However, the one constant in my life has been Walt Disney World! Walt Disney World remains in my life because of the care and effort Disney puts forth for disabled guests.

This lawsuit truly breaks my heart. Disney should not be sued over something like this. More of my feelings on this lawsuit are in Post #11 of this thread.

It is very important to speak out against this lawsuit, so that Disney knows how much their efforts mean to so many disabled people, even when they may disappoint a very select few.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:19 PM   #45
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Life changes as my disability changes. However, the one constant in my life has been Walt Disney World! Walt Disney World remains in my life because of the care and effort Disney puts forth for disabled guests.

This lawsuit truly breaks my heart. Disney should not be sued over something like this. More of my feelings on this lawsuit are in Post #11 of this thread.

It is very important to speak out against this lawsuit, so that Disney knows how much their efforts mean to so many disabled people, even when they may disappoint a very select few.
That is just the perfect way to say it!

Some of the children I have worked with have been to Disneyland Paris, and have had nothing but support and help, when many other non-Disney resorts are no-go zones.

I am all for what Disney tries to achieve and does do to a great extent!
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