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Old 03-03-2006, 02:43 PM   #31
airhead
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We celebrated 30 years together last November

We didn't need a piece of paper to make that day important. Neither of us has any desire(or need) to "get legal". My philosophy is,if it ain't broke,don't fix it!
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:08 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airhead
We didn't need a piece of paper to make that day important. Neither of us has any desire(or need) to "get legal". My philosophy is,if it ain't broke,don't fix it!
While I can certainly see your point of view, considering that I and hisselfness have been together for 19 years with out either a ceremony or a piece of paper, that piece of paper is the golden ticket to a vertibable magic kingdom of legal rights and other benefits.
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:06 PM   #33
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Ava and I are registered domestic partners in NYC, we have no desire for a ceremony that has no legal standing... but the second it becomes legal we will be first in line to be married.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:03 PM   #34
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My partner Paul and I got legally "married" last summer after being together for 23 years not "Leagal"

I really wasn’t that into the idea of needing that piece of paper to justify our being a couple. After all I knew straight couples that could not of been less married and had all the trappings - religious ceremonie and all.

I think real marriage (commitment) happens in your head - and heart.
Papers don’t make it “real”. Some dude in a funny frock giving you his blessing don’t make it real.

But that said - once MA said we could married and get all the same legal rights - we decide to go for it before our governor figured a way to stop it. If Paul ever had to go into the hospital I don’t want some nurse stopping me because I’m not family.

What I did not, and still don’t understand is why we’re suppose to be fine with Civil Unions. Separate IS NOT equal.
Why would you except being less than. A marrage with a caveat.

Jenny thank for your GREAT eloquent words on this topic.
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Old 03-16-2006, 05:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECurto
Hopefully soon if Hillary wins, or not with this newest Supreme Court Judge.
I just want to remind you that Hillary's husband not only did not veto the Defense of Marriage Act, nor let if become law without his signature (as most laws do), but signed it and then advertised that he had done so on Christian radio stations while running for re-election.

He also took an Executive Order banning gays and lesbians from serving in our military and made it a Federal Law (much harder to change).

I am not sure that Hillary will be that different.

Now back to our original topic:

I also have no interest in anything that is less than legal marriage. Howard Dean's Civil Unions in Vermont are essentially meaningless as there is no case to even force recognition of them under Full Faith and Credit.

This was an issue between me and my ex-Boy Friend. He felt that having a commitment ceremony was important and I did not (we broke up after seven years together over other issues).

/carmi
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JennyMominRI
Regarding meat and dairy.This comes from a verse in the bible about not cooking a calf in his mothers milk..IT would be cruel to an animal to cook it's young in the milk that is meant to nurture it.
Your post was very accurate, with this one exception. The origin of the prohibition on mixing dairy and meat comes from a desire to separate from the pagan practices in the area. A common pagan fertility rite was to seethe a calf in its mother's milk. It was part of a number of pagan rituals that Judaism bans (homosexual temple prostitutes are another - read the verse in context and it is Leviticus is not talking about loving gay relationships).

It has always bothered me when people have tried to explain the laws of kashrut as health codes.

Quote:
One way of doing this is by taking Kosher laws,which ARE moral laws and turning them into something else..Something that's no longer valid like food safety issues.. It's too bad..There was no need to change the meaning or reasoning for Kosher laws,as non-Jews were never expected to follow them in the first place.
Agreed. I will note though that among the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah (among only rules in the Hebrew bible that apply to non-Jews) is a law that covers animal cruelty (prohibits eating the flesh of a live animal).

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Old 03-16-2006, 07:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom
Your post was very accurate, with this one exception. The origin of the prohibition on mixing dairy and meat comes from a desire to separate from the pagan practices in the area. A common pagan fertility rite was to seethe a calf in its mother's milk. It was part of a number of pagan rituals that Judaism bans (homosexual temple prostitutes are another - read the verse in context and it is Leviticus is not talking about loving gay relationships).

It has always bothered me when people have tried to explain the laws of kashrut as health codes.



Agreed. I will note though that among the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah (among only rules in the Hebrew bible that apply to non-Jews) is a law that covers animal cruelty (prohibits eating the flesh of a live animal).

/carmi
This is probably OT, but all I have to say is WOW! And that's a "wow' of appreciation. I wouid have never expected to read something like this on these boards, and quite accurate too. The 7 commandments, haven't heard anyone refer to them since my days as a yeshiva boy!
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Old 03-16-2006, 11:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iankh
This is probably OT, but all I have to say is WOW! And that's a "wow' of appreciation. I wouid have never expected to read something like this on these boards, and quite accurate too. The 7 commandments, haven't heard anyone refer to them since my days as a yeshiva boy!
Thirteen years of Solomon Schechter and six summers of Camp Ramah in Wisconsin (four as a camper, 2 as staff) and one summer of Ramah Israel Seminar, paid off.

/carmi
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:14 AM   #39
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I'm following the "Never getting married" thread in th CB. It's interesting that the "benefits" of marriage they mention are the same ones we've been told to "just get a lawyer to draft you something".link
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Old 03-20-2006, 04:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubie2.5
I'm following the "Never getting married" thread in th CB. It's interesting that the "benefits" of marriage they mention are the same ones we've been told to "just get a lawyer to draft you something".link
I decided that I needed to correct a few misconceptions. Given that most of the over 1,400 benefits of marriage can be had only by marriage, I thought that some of those people needed education. :-)

/carmi
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Old 03-20-2006, 04:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom
I decided that I needed to correct a few misconceptions....
/carmi
It's always useful to have more information enter the conversation.

I'm biased, I know, but all of these discussions always lead me back to a certainty that equal marriage is essential.

After all, the hetero couples are discussing their reasons for choosing not to marry. I support their right to make decisions that are right for them and their relationships. Without equal marriage, same-sex couples cannot differentiate their choices for society.

Marriage was/is important for me, but I understand that some people make different choices. My DW was with her ex for 6+ years, they owned a house together, etc. However, they were also clear with each other that they had not made a lifetime commitment and would not have gotten married.

When my DW and I got together, I got lots of weird looks from people who figured that I was some sort of rebound relationship and that our talk of 'marriage' was odd. Yet, if they had been a straight couple that was equally clear about their lack of future, people would have been able to differentiate the two relationships. Ah well...I'm married now...and others can sort out their own decisions. (I will continue to hope for change for those who are not allowed to choose.)
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:08 AM   #42
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Religious Marriage Versus Civil Marriage Versus Civil Union

What if someone suddenly decided to invalidate all MARRIAGE CERTIFICATES that were not performed by an appropriate religious sect.

That Marriage without Religion was not recognized.

In that case CIVIL MARRIAGE was on the same level as GAY MARRIAGE.
Both were intolerable to the concept of the Government's view on Non Religious Marriage.

All CIVIL Marriage Rights were disolved.

All Children born to CIVIL Marriages were deemed illegitimate.

All Marriage, Tax, Legal Perks were removed for these CIVIL Marriages.

What if Straight Couples who got CIVIL Marriages in Canada, came over the border to the United States to find their Marriage Illegal ?

----

Simply the word "Marriage" should not be owned for Religious Marriages.
Let the Religious Organizations use the adjective "RELIGIOUS" in front of the
word Marriage if they need that comfort zone.

If the government can allow CIVIL Straight MARRIAGES, it should allow CIVIL GAY MARRIAGES. Two consulting adults over 18 kind of thing !

Let the Churches, Synagogues, and Mosques decide who gets to perform RELIGIOUS MARRIAGES. But they should not control who gets a CIVIL Marriage. That is the function of the government.

It is time the government allows GAY CIVIL MARRIAGES, so that Gay Couples can have the same rights and benefits based on Marriage for Insurances, Property, Wills, Partner Death Benefits, etc. that heterosexual couples receive today.

UNION versus MARRIAGE, the difference should only offend some RELIGIOUS organizations, not the government.

---

Now if I can only find a Loving Partner to Marry, I need some of those benefits ! My Medical Insurance Premiums are killing me !

---

I think I would rather now talk more about DISNEY !
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Old 03-21-2006, 06:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILCT
What if Straight Couples who got CIVIL Marriages in Canada, came over the border to the United States to find their Marriage Illegal ?

I think I would rather now talk more about DISNEY !
Since you'd prefer to talk about disney, I'll assume that you likely won't read this. However, I wanted to correct an inaccurate assumption that seems implicit in this line.

Separating the idea of religious and civil marriage does not solve the problem of the US government not recognizing Canadian marriages.

I am Canadian and was married in a religious ceremony.
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Old 03-21-2006, 06:38 PM   #44
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I think your marriage should be recognized universally, I am embarassed about the U.S. position on Gay Marriage denial.

I just wanted others to realize how much they take for granted their rights by their legal civil marriages today, and how would they feel if they were taken away.
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Old 03-21-2006, 07:00 PM   #45
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I know this won't be a popular opinion, but my take, as a religious professional, is that most state governments are much more politically conservative than many religious communites. I've been officiating at lesbian and gay "marriages" for years. But there are very few states that can say likewise. Many people don't realize it, but built into many state constitutions are preferences for nuclear families. I predict changing that will be much harder than changing the stance of many mainline communities of faith.

Having said that, however, I should note that marriages are really best viewed as civil functions - not religious events. Outside of our RC brothers and sisters marriage is not viewed as a sacrament and it's pretty clear that many people of no particular faith persuasion marry all of the time. In my particular religious persuasion - Lutheran - Martin Luther was pretty clear that this was all the pervue of the State, not the Church.
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