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Old 06-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #1
huffjoann
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Intersting, the Captain doesn't park the ship in port

Hubby & I found this very interesting when we commented on how great a job the captain/crew did parking/pulling the boat into Nassau and the CM said that the captain doesn't even do it. A port "pilot" comes onboard about 2 miles out and gets the ship into port and docked. Same thing on the way out,, very intersting. I am guessing they do it for CC since it is Disney owned.

I am envisioning a whole James Bond type move from the pilot boat to the ship, wish we saw that but then I might have been disapointed he didnt' repel in, LOL
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Old 06-01-2013, 04:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huffjoann View Post
Hubby & I found this very interesting when we commented on how great a job the captain/crew did parking/pulling the boat into Nassau and the CM said that the captain doesn't even do it. A port "pilot" comes onboard about 2 miles out and gets the ship into port and docked. Same thing on the way out,, very intersting. I am guessing they do it for CC since it is Disney owned.

I am envisioning a whole James Bond type move from the pilot boat to the ship, wish we saw that but then I might have been disapointed he didnt' repel in, LOL
Shhh keep those secrets to yourself it'll spoil the fun

Seriously though, i never knew that i always thought the captn steered the ship in and out.
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Old 06-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #3
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The logic is that the local pilot's know the waters much better and can adjust for tides.
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Old 06-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #4
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The Capt controls the ship from the time it leaves the pier until she's tied up again. The harbor pilot advises the Capt on currents sandbars etc. They'll never touch the controls since its not only a liability issue but with so many ships no 2 handle the same. The Capt on the ship and a few other bridge officers know that ship inside and out on how she handles, any issue that the ship may have like a bad thruster motor how much power to push when etc.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #5
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We tried to watch the harbor pilot board, but didn't have any luck. However, we did see the boat with the pilot pull up to the Fantasy and then pull away - it happens extremely fast! I don't think there is a harbor pilot for CC. Here are a couple of pics...

St. Maarten (pic taken from Deck 4)



St. Thomas (pic taken from our verandah on Deck 7 Aft)

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Old 06-01-2013, 06:22 PM   #6
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My DM's first job when I was a kid was working on the dock where the ships were unloading (military port). One day she asked "Did they park the boat yet?" Her boss (a Navy Captain) said (in a very controlled voice), "In the first place, it's a ship, not a boat. And you do not park them, you "dock" them, or you "berth" them."

My DM (realizing that a line had been drawn) replied, "Well, I refuse to berth them, it sounds positively indecent!". From then on, in her office, it was always asked "did they park the boat yet?"
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck1 View Post
The Capt controls the ship from the time it leaves the pier until she's tied up again. The harbor pilot advises the Capt on currents sandbars etc. They'll never touch the controls since its not only a liability issue but with so many ships no 2 handle the same. The Capt on the ship and a few other bridge officers know that ship inside and out on how she handles, any issue that the ship may have like a bad thruster motor how much power to push when etc.
This has been my understanding as well. We were told that the pilot has to be onboard, but the Captain or one of his officers actually has control of the vessel at all times. OP, it sounds like the CM you spoke with was a bit confused as to what actually happens on the bridge.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:26 PM   #8
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The only time that I know of where the captain gives up control of the ship is going through the Panama Canal. In one of the talks we had during our recent EBPC, the speaker says its a legal requirement for passage through the canal, the canal pilot assumes all responsibility, and the canal's insurance covers any damage.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobyetman View Post
The only time that I know of where the captain gives up control of the ship is going through the Panama Canal. In one of the talks we had during our recent EBPC, the speaker says its a legal requirement for passage through the canal, the canal pilot assumes all responsibility, and the canal's insurance covers any damage.
As Tonka's Skipper posted, the captain does not give up control of the ship, the pilot advises the captain or OOD on what is the best course. I was stationed on the bridge of US Navy ship during "sea and anchor" detail and I can assure you the pilot never touched the helm and that included navigating through Panama Canal although the Canal authority had more legal control than port pilots.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:39 AM   #10
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Seems I should have read the thread first......you folks pretty well covered it all.

I would add that the Master, nor the Pilot, would actually take the helm. There is always a helmsman that does the actual steering at the Master's or Pilots orders.

The exception is with those famous joy sticks on the bridge wings controls, where the Master controls the docking maneuverers

The Master and Pilot needs to be able to move around the bridge and onto the bridge wings to get the best view of the vessels actual position and motion.


AKK
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:06 AM   #11
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park/dock/berth you all know what I mean!
perhaps the pilot just advises or actual handles the controls, not sure. I was just amazed that someone comes on board to even do that part. But yes ITA, the captain knows his vessel and the pilot knows his port. I doubt they are fighting each other on it.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:42 AM   #12
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The interplay between the pilot and the master is complex and seldom the same in two different places. My experience is from the Captain’s chair over 4 years; a few points I’d offer:

As mentioned, other than in special areas like the canal zones the pilot is “an advisor” to the master by law and the law requires a pilot on board when in internal waters such as a port/harbor. And as such the master must be very aware of the position he is in if he defies the pilot even tho the master DOES retain the responsibility.

In the US pilots are regulated by the States but there is overarching US regulation and licensing. Note that when moving from open seas to a pier and ship may actually end up working with several pilots as State jurisdiction chages. In the case of San Fran for example one pilot will bring the ship from sea into the Bay, another may be required to enter a particular area of the port and yet another ‘docking pilot’ takes over for the actual docking evolution . . . very complex. And the procedures seen in the US may not be exactly what a ship encounters in ‘other than US’ ports! On an Alaska cruise in the inland passage, sometimes there are US pilots and other times Canada .. depends on where you are.

I have had pilots come on board and immediately start issuing commands directly to the helm and engines, and at the other extreme I’ve had pilots come on board ask for their fee and a cup of coffee and other than pointing to a spot and saying ‘park there’ are not heard from again, and everything ‘tween the two.

As Captain I met the pilot immediate on their arrival to the bridge and we’d begin a little dance establishing just where the boundary was going to be. Some captains just say ‘the ship is yours pilot’.

The Carib’ cruise ships tend to visit the same ports weekly or even more frequently and they work with the same pilots regularly. As both sides of the equation gain trust it is not uncommon to see more of a partnership develop which is of course the entire intent. The pilot may stand aside and just watch the Captain drive, or watch the Captain teach a subordinate how to drive, or have the pilot drive because – hey it’s fun! But thing don’t always work so well ... Remember when that oil tanker hit the Bay Bridge in San Fran in 07"? This is from the exec’ summary of the NTSB report

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the allision of the Cosco Busan with the San Francisco–Oakland Bay Bridge was the failure to safely navigate the vessel in restricted visibility as a result of (1) the pilot’s degraded cognitive performance from his use of impairing prescription medications, (2) the absence of a comprehensive pre-departure master/pilot exchange and a lack of effective communication between the pilot and the master during the accident voyage, and (3) the master’s ineffective oversight of the pilot’s performance and the vessel’s progress.
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/summary/MAR0901.htm
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:16 PM   #13
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Love reading interesting facts like this

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Old 06-02-2013, 08:16 AM   #14
Tonka's Skipper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huffjoann View Post
Hubby & I found this very interesting when we commented on how great a job the captain/crew did parking/pulling the boat into Nassau and the CM said that the captain doesn't even do it. A port "pilot" comes onboard about 2 miles out and gets the ship into port and docked. Same thing on the way out,, very intersting. I am guessing they do it for CC since it is Disney owned.

I am envisioning a whole James Bond type move from the pilot boat to the ship, wish we saw that but then I might have been disapointed he didnt' repel in, LOL

The CM was very wrong. The pilots, by law, board the vessel before the vessel enters restricted waters/ channels. The Master is always (except in the Panama Cannel and the great lakes cannels and lock system.
) in command and responsible for his vessel's safe navigation. The pilots assist and offers aid as he has a complete and detailed knowledge of the waters the vessel is passing though.

While docking on most vessels, the pilot or a additional docking Master will dock the vessel. On cruise vessels and some other large vessels due to the size and special handling abilities (and liabilities) the Master (and sometimes a chief officer in training) dock the vessel.

However to repeat the Master has the right to take over the navigation of his vessel at anytime.


Pilots boarding vessel do indeed sometimes do moves that would make a circus crowd go WOOO and HAAA, especially in rough water. It can be very dangerous. I have great respect for the Pilots, especially those boarding at the Columbia River bar..........these guys are amazing.

AKK

Just for the record...............vessels do not park......they *dock* or *berth*
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