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Old 02-28-2013, 07:12 PM   #1
mjc2003
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How are points allocated?

For our trip in October, the points are low and the availability is already tight...but we just looked into a last minute late April trip and the points are quite high, and we can basically get a 1br anywhere for the entire week, except for BCV. So I was just curious, why would such a dead time be so expensive?
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:31 PM   #2
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For our trip in October, the points are low and the availability is already tight...but we just looked into a last minute late April trip and the points are quite high, and we can basically get a 1br anywhere for the entire week, except for BCV. So I was just curious, why would such a dead time be so expensive?
You are attempting to unwrap the magical mind of DVC - good luck.

Maybe someone who was there in the beginning can let us know. I'm sure F&W started as an attempt to increase attendance to WDW in October. Maybe that was why the point charts had them as well. March/April are Spring Break months and Easter, in which a lot of people are already going WDW, which removes the need for a lower point incentive.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:44 PM   #3
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October is busy for DVC resorts:
  • Because it's cheaper points
  • It's Food and Wine, F&W race, and MNSSHP
  • Jersey week invasion of WDW of NJ teachers and families that are out of school for a teacher's convention.

I agree with AirGoofy that F&W items came about to fill up all of the WDW resorts (cash and DVC) and DVC members just take advantage of all the situations. We like to stretch our points as far as possible. But many members are restricted to when school is out. Others can take advantage of the low point dates.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:54 PM   #4
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I don't really understand why we have different point seasons. Why not make all dates the same, when the place is booked, it's booked.

Bill
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:44 PM   #5
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DVC has point seasons like many point based timeshares, for the same reasons there are different season at cash resorts. To try to balance demand and occupancy. Don;t you imagine that that the DVC resorts would sit empty in early January if the points were the same as the are at Christmas and Thanksgiving week? It certainly wouldn't be much of a selling point when prospective owners would wonder why the cash rooms are often heavily discounted certain times of the year, but DVC points are the same year round.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:48 PM   #6
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DVC has point seasons like many point based timeshares, for the same reasons there are different season at cash resorts. To try to balance demand and occupancy. Don;t you imagine that that the DVC resorts would sit empty in early January if the points were the same as the are at Christmas and Thanksgiving week? It certainly wouldn't be much of a selling point when prospective owners would wonder why the cash rooms are often heavily discounted certain times of the year, but DVC points are the same year round.
Since DVC owners have to use their points or forfeit them, I wouldn't think that there would be empty rooms same as now. The popular vacations times would fill up first, then the shoulder periods and finally the least popular times.

I also don't understand increasing the required points for a stay at THV and DVC using the reason that they are popular so they had to be increased. When they are booked, they are booked and members can try next time.

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:18 AM   #7
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I don't really understand why we have different point seasons. Why not make all dates the same, when the place is booked, it's booked.

Bill
That would discriminate against people with fewer points and favor owners with more points.

I think there are a number of people on the low side that have just enough points for a few days in a value season. Remove the seasons,?they'd only get one day.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
I don't really understand why we have different point seasons. Why not make all dates the same, when the place is booked, it's booked.

Bill
They don't have too and it's true that the system is self leveling to a degree and thus all points will be used or lost. However, DVCMC has the responsibility for managing the resorts for the benefit of the members as a whole which means allocating points in such as way as to level demand somewhat. A system that is too far out of balance creates far more phone calls and far less members satisfaction.

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That sort of makes my point. If people prefer October to late April, why isn't April priced accordingly?
None of us can speak for DVD/DVC but my take is that the seasons are based on the demand and usage from the late 80's and very early 90's and there have been only minor changes since. IMO, DVCMC should/must adjust to even out demand but they also don't want to micromanage the issue, it's a balance that will never be perfect.

For some reason I'm having trouble copying quotes to combine them so I'll address some of the other issues here. DVD/DVC/DVCMC have no risk from a credible law suit or any significant risk from real complaints if they do what I just mentioned above. That's not to say no one will complain but it's not significant or long lasting. I'll say again as I've said many times before, what the sales people told anyone that isn't in writing has NO meaning whatsoever and provides no real risk of legal proceedings.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:49 PM   #9
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They don't have too and it's true that the system is self leveling to a degree and thus all points will be used or lost. However, DVCMC has the responsibility for managing the resorts for the benefit of the members as a whole which means allocating points in such as way as to level demand somewhat. A system that is too far out of balance creates far more phone calls and far less members satisfaction.

None of us can speak for DVD/DVC but my take is that the seasons are based on the demand and usage from the late 80's and very early 90's and there have been only minor changes since. IMO, DVCMC should/must adjust to even out demand but they also don't want to micromanage the issue, it's a balance that will never be perfect.

For some reason I'm having trouble copying quotes to combine them so I'll address some of the other issues here. DVD/DVC/DVCMC have no risk from a credible law suit or any significant risk from real complaints if they do what I just mentioned above. That's not to say no one will complain but it's not significant or long lasting. I'll say again as I've said many times before, what the sales people told anyone that isn't in writing has NO meaning whatsoever and provides no real risk of legal proceedings.
Anyone can sue for anything, and nuisance suits are a huge problem for Disney - and most major corporations. Make enough people angry and you'll have a lot of them.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by disneynutz
I don't really understand why we have different point seasons. Why not make all dates the same, when the place is booked, it's booked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean View Post
They don't have too and it's true that the system is self leveling to a degree and thus all points will be used or lost. However, DVCMC has the responsibility for managing the resorts for the benefit of the members as a whole which means allocating points in such as way as to level demand somewhat. A system that is too far out of balance creates far more phone calls and far less members satisfaction.
It still seems to me that the issue of seasons is complex and not perfect and the benefit isn't clear cut. Owners with points to burn get to stay during the popular high point seasons and owners with less points have to stay in a smaller room and/or during a cheaper season.

Is it possible that DVCMC creates the higher point seasons and increases the required points at resorts like THV to cause people to buy more points and increase sales? After one of the reallocations when owners came up short points they started the one time use buy points program. Since those are developer points I'm guessing that the proceeds go back to Disney.

Bill
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean View Post

For some reason I'm having trouble copying quotes to combine them so I'll address some of the other issues here. DVD/DVC/DVCMC have no risk from a credible law suit or any significant risk from real complaints if they do what I just mentioned above. That's not to say no one will complain but it's not significant or long lasting. I'll say again as I've said many times before, what the sales people told anyone that isn't in writing has NO meaning whatsoever and provides no real risk of legal proceedings.
Yes, it seems to be working OK in IE, but it won't work in Google Chrome. The search function has also been down for a few days. They are working on it.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:25 AM   #12
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October is busy for DVC resorts:
  • Because it's cheaper points
  • It's Food and Wine, F&W race, and MNSSHP
  • Jersey week invasion of WDW of NJ teachers and families that are out of school for a teacher's convention.

I agree with AirGoofy that F&W items came about to fill up all of the WDW resorts (cash and DVC) and DVC members just take advantage of all the situations. We like to stretch our points as far as possible. But many members are restricted to when school is out. Others can take advantage of the low point dates.
FYI Jersey week is in November.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:01 AM   #13
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Thank you all for the responses, perhaps I didn't phrase my question properly. I understand why the fall is popular, and I'm not sure the lower points are as much a driving factor as is peoples desire to escape somewhere warmer when most of the country gets colder--I guess it's a chicken-or-the-egg thing, and that's not really my question.
My question is, why are the points at the end of April treated as a peak season when clearly it isn't; one look at availability shows that less than 2 months out you can stay almost wherever you want. So are the points allocations not dynamic enough? I would assume this is a carryover from years past when Easter fell later in April? But this year most breaks are done by April 8th, and after that rates at most resorts react accordingly.

One look at another timeshare rental site shows that people are giving away weeks at the end of April. But DVC is charging a premium for a week at WDW when very few people are coming. I just find it curious. I guess the response will be, "do you want them to change the point allocations yearly?" Well, yes I guess I would, because treating quiet times like the week I'm referencing like it's a holiday (points-wise) surely dissuades others, and drives more traffic to the lower points seasons.

I guess I would agree to an extent with the poster who said to make all weeks the same. I would amend that by raising the points for certain weeks, maybe Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc..., but realistically the spread doesn't make sense. There's little argument to be made that (in DVC terms) the end of April will be busier than October, but it's priced like the demand is 25% higher. Odd. Does DVC actually want rooms empty for entire stretches because they've priced owners out? Because in it's simplest terms, that's what they're doing (as dictated by availability).
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjc2003 View Post
Thank you all for the responses, perhaps I didn't phrase my question properly. I understand why the fall is popular, and I'm not sure the lower points are as much a driving factor as is peoples desire to escape somewhere warmer when most of the country gets colder--I guess it's a chicken-or-the-egg thing, and that's not really my question.
My question is, why are the points at the end of April treated as a peak season when clearly it isn't; one look at availability shows that less than 2 months out you can stay almost wherever you want. So are the points allocations not dynamic enough? I would assume this is a carryover from years past when Easter fell later in April? But this year most breaks are done by April 8th, and after that rates at most resorts react accordingly.

One look at another timeshare rental site shows that people are giving away weeks at the end of April. But DVC is charging a premium for a week at WDW when very few people are coming. I just find it curious. I guess the response will be, "do you want them to change the point allocations yearly?" Well, yes I guess I would, because treating quiet times like the week I'm referencing like it's a holiday (points-wise) surely dissuades others, and drives more traffic to the lower points seasons.

I guess I would agree to an extent with the poster who said to make all weeks the same. I would amend that by raising the points for certain weeks, maybe Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc..., but realistically the spread doesn't make sense. There's little argument to be made that (in DVC terms) the end of April will be busier than October, but it's priced like the demand is 25% higher. Odd. Does DVC actually want rooms empty for entire stretches because they've priced owners out? Because in it's simplest terms, that's what they're doing (as dictated by availability).
They do change the point allocation annually, based upon when Easter and Thanksgiving holidays fall in a given year.

The week leading up and the week following Easter are always Premier season, the rest of March and April are in Magic season. As to why those weeks are in Magic season, it is likely for a few reasons. Spring Break weeks vary around the country and also during those times in March and April many older people or those with very young families who are not yet in school travel to avoid the harsh Nothern winters, unlike in January when Florida may also experience a cold freeze. It may also be a peak travel season for people in other countries. Disney World, unlike offsite resorts, is a worldwide travel destination. Most foreign travelers will stay onsite rather than offsite in an area with which they may not be familiar.

Originally, the point charts were based on what Disney had ample data and lot of experience to support, the travel patterns of their cash resorts in Florida. If hose travel patters also did not hold true to some degree for DVC travel over the last 20 years, the charts would have been changed some time ago...just as they tried to adjust weekends a few years back. But they have backed off some of those changes and the charts look a little more like the originals now. The seasons are not quite as lop-sided as they were pre-1996.

I mean, there must be some demand for late April if that is when you are traveling. Why do you travel at that time of year? March and April are for the most part, some of the best times weather-wise for the Orlando area. Late May/Early June can already be getting quite warm . I think the only reason for people to travel in July and August, a very hot and humid time of year in Florida, is because of school schedules. March and April are also convention seasons for many businesses and organizations.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:10 AM   #15
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I mean, there must be some demand for late April if that is when you are traveling. Why do you travel at that time of year? March and April are for the most part, some of the best times weather-wise for the Orlando area. Late May/Early June can already be getting quite warm . I think the only reason for people to travel in July and August, a very hot and humid time of year in Florida, is because of school schedules. March and April are also convention seasons for many businesses and organizations.[/QUOTE]

We never travel in late April or early May, this is a total anomaly. While you make excellent points as to why this should be a busy time, the proof bu way of availability shows that it's not a busy time. So my question is why are the points allocated to reflect a premium when there is no premium on demand. Maybe there's no answer to the question. I am juxtaposing this scenario against that which I'm familiar, namely traveling in the fall, when points are low and demand is quite high. Something seems out of balance.
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