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View Poll Results: Will Starbucks coming to the Magic Kingdom effect your visit
Ye it will and I plan to never visit the Magic Kingdom again 1 0.74%
Yes it will, but I will just walk past it and not go in 25 18.52%
Don't care either way 20 14.81%
No it's just a coffee shop/ bakery that happens to sell strabucks 89 65.93%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:26 PM   #1
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Will Starbucks coming to the Magic Kingdom effect you visiting the Magic Kingdom?

The question says it all
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:30 PM   #2
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Has anyone ever looked at a pole on the mobile version of the site? It makes it into a pie chart undyed of a bar graph

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Old 11-14-2012, 01:32 PM   #3
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Of course it won't. I can easily walk on the other side of the street.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:42 PM   #4
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I'm looking forward to having some "good" coffe at WDW. They'll fit in just fine with their period costumes and will still carry baked goods. I think it's a fantastic idea.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 2manypets View Post
I'm looking forward to having some "good" coffe at WDW. They'll fit in just fine with their period costumes and will still carry baked goods. I think it's a fantastic idea.
Same here.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:11 PM   #6
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Pete: I really have to take issue with your strident view expressed in the podcast. Not because you aren't entitled to your opinion. But because your opinion appears to be based on an absolute that simply does or will not exist. There is a 60+ page thread on the Theme Parks Board, much of it involving people chasing each other around. I don't want to repeat that here, and instead will simply offer up this essay on logic and evaluative thinking.

The Starbucks situation can unfold in many different ways. But first, let's stake out the end posts that mark the range of possibilities. On the one side, we have the possibility that the Main Street Bakery ("MSB") will not change in any way, shape or form. I'm talking about not a single molecule out of place. The only difference would be that the liquid poured into customers' cups would be Starbucks coffee. On the other side of the equation we have the possibility that Disney brings in a wrecking ball and bulldozer and erects a carbon copy of any ol' Starbucks found in any major city in America. A disgusting green building with stark, non-descript wooden chairs and tables, pretentious CDs sold by the register and hipster nose-pierced barristas pulling the shots.

If we are being honest here, you should have absolutely no quarrel with the first scenario, unless, of course, you simply do not like the liquid poured into your cup. But as nothing else has changed, it would be irrational to view this "change" as Armegeddon. In fact, unless someone told you that the coffee had changed, you'd never even know that there had been any change at all.

Contrast that with the second scenario, which I think it is fair to assume, would not sit well with 95% of all Disney fans and would and should bring about protests, petitions and people chaining themselves to the doors of the MSB.

Now, in reality, I think it is fair to say that what will actually unfold will be something in between. So let's analyze that. Logic dictates that if we start at the first guide post and work our way toward the second, small, incremental changes could be added to the first scenario that would be acceptable to you, and which would still find you in the "this change isn't so bad, and I accept it" camp. For example, the turn of the century motif is retained; the barristas look like clean cut workers in a Marceline soda shop; the furniture is new, but still well within the spectrum of the Disney Main Street Theme; and perhaps new wall paper or paint is applied to the walls. But nothing whatsoever that looks like a Starbucks or evokes the atmosphere of a typical urban coffee shop. Again, small, incremental changes, none of which move you over to the "I hate it" camp. From there, we can imagine still more changes, bringing the MSB closer and closer to the wrecking ball/urban coffee shop scenario. At some point, the changes will cross the proverbial line, pushing you into the "They've gone too far, and this is unacceptable" camp. And that is fine. Everyone is going to have their own opinion as to where that line is, and no one else could credibly debate the validity of that person's opinion. It is wrong, however, to assume at this stage, that the line will be crossed.

The same would hold true if we started at the second guide post and slowly made our way over to the first. Imagine a "pure" Starbucks, and then imagine small incremental changes that would move it into the realm of a turn of the century parlor. Small changes in this regard would not suffice, but if enough of them were compounded, eventually you would get to the point where you would have to concede that what they have done passes muster with you, and you would find the changeover acceptable. Again, opinions will differ in where this line resides.

But here is where I take issue with your rant. You jump off with your argument assuming that the scenario that will unfold is the second one, without a shred of proof of that fact. From the Disney blog press release, we know that the "all in" Starbucks isn't coming to WDW. The locale will remain the MSB, the turn of the century decor and feel will be retained, and much of the food offerings will continue to be sold. Rather than assume that this announcemnet was in response to negative reactions on the internet, I firmly believe (albeit, without proof), that this was always the intent, but that Disney had to clarify the situation because people were pulling their hair out thinking that Disney had opted to allow an urban Starbucks to invade Main Street. I do not believe that was ever the case.

No matter. We have the current information from Disney that should lead us to conclude that the MSB will unfold somewhere along the spectrum falling between "no change at all" and "urban Starbucks". And I think that from the information provided, it will fall far closer in range to the "no change at all". We cannot get up in arms about a fresh coat of paint, some new floor tiles and better furniture, as long as that furniture is not the junk at a typical Starbucks. But there is no reason to take up torches and pitchforks and pound the internet with petitions to stop this from happening based on the unsupported assumption that Starbucks is moving into Main Street lock, stock and barrel.

We have to give Disney more credit than that. Why? Well, for starters, when the MSB opnened, (and I believe the word you used in the podcast was "legacy"), it was a Sara Lee outlet. Somehow, in 1971, Main Street was able to coexist with a corporately sponsored bakery with big signage in full view. But if your retort is: "yes, but the theming was pure Disney", then I would say that I agree. So if Starbucks cuts its ribbon with full Disney theming, shouldn't we give it the same benefit of the doubt that we gave Sara Lee? Or Carnation? Or Nestle? Or Coke? Or Edy's? Or your beloved Dole? It would be beyond hypocritical to think that Starbucks has no place on Main Street when all the corporations named above are or have been there, and we can add Gulf Oil, GAF and Kodak to that list. So corporate sponsorship and signage cannot be the issue. It has to be the theming. So let's let this unfold and see what the theming will be before we conclude that Starbucks has no place on Main Street. I am willing to bet that when they cut the ribbon, you will look at it and say: "You know what? They did a pretty good job here. This isn't bad at all." Any other result would be very, very surprising to me. With all that said, I think you came down far too heavy against this change, and we all owe it to the imagineers to come up with something classy before we start chaining ourselves to the doors.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:55 PM   #7
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I think you missed point.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:24 PM   #8
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When I first heard that Starbucks was coming to WDW I was really happy. I do like Starbucks drinks (not the coffee, but Chai Tea, Latte's, etc). When they announced that it was coming to the Main Street Bakery I thought that was a great place to put it because it only makes sense to have better coffee with the pastries that the bakery sells. However, after reading more about it online I get the feeling it is much more than just putting Starbucks coffee in the Bakery. That the Bakery itself will close and turn into a Starbucks. This is something that I don't agree with because Starbucks as we know it would NOT fit in well with the turn of the century small town theme of Main Street. I think the coffee should be served at all locations, but if you want to bring an actual Starbucks to the park, I agree with the podcast team that it should be done somewhere else (the Noodle Station was a great suggestion). I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Personally, I think the Bakery DOES need to be updated. That line is horrendous most of the time and there isn't enough seating. Turning the entire thing into a Starbucks is not what I had in mind though...
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaclyn View Post
However, after reading more about it online I get the feeling it is much more than just putting Starbucks coffee in the Bakery. That the Bakery itself will close and turn into a Starbucks.
And herein lies the problem. People are reacting on "feelings" rather than fact.

This is something that I don't agree with because Starbucks as we know it would NOT fit in well with the turn of the century small town theme of Main Street.
And Disney agrees with you. Here is a quote from the official source. There is simply no way that one can reasonably read the following statement and conclude that what will be built on Main Street will be a Starbucks, as we have come to understand that term.

"Both locations will be designed to fit the theme of their surroundings. At Magic Kingdom Park, for example, cast members will wear a costume consistent with the early 20th century look and feel of Main Street, U.S.A."
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:02 PM   #10
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I will be sad, for sure, especially if they don't have the cherry danish which is one of the only bribes I can use to get my DH to Orlando. I try not to drink too much coffee or anything related to the water in Florida anyway, and this will only provide further incentive.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYorkDisneyFan View Post
The question says it all
Grammar police: It's affect, not effect.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:36 PM   #12
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JimmyV, I'd like to congratulate you on a well-reasoned, thoughtful, and intelligent response to Pete's rant (which I have not yet heard). You've very logically described the possible (but extreme) scenarios of incorporating Starbucks into the MSB, and have not let sentimentality and emotion cloud your reasoning. Bravo.

May I suggest that that is exactly where you went wrong...dismissing sentimentality and emotion? Here's my reasoning.

People who go to Disney parks do not, I would assume, experience them strictly intellectually or logically. They experience them emotionally. They go to laugh, to cry, to scream, to wonder. They go to make memories with friends and family. They take photos of experiences, and they treasure those photos and memories forever. They become emotionally involved.

Therefore, they react emotionally when they hear news of change. They think "How badly could this change go?" Then they think updates of Journey Into Imagination, or Spaceship Earth, or Mission to Mars, and they realize that it could go horribly, horribly wrong. Am I, or Pete, wrong? Could it go horribly wrong? We all know the answer.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzco-like View Post
People who go to Disney parks do not, I would assume, experience them strictly intellectually or logically. They experience them emotionally. They go to laugh, to cry, to scream, to wonder. They go to make memories with friends and family. They take photos of experiences, and they treasure those photos and memories forever. They become emotionally involved.
First, thank you for the kind words. As to your point on emotional attachment, I agree, but I believe that far too many people cling to an emotional attachment based on a reality that never existed. The MSB has changed corporate sponorship numerous times. Why was it OK to have a big Sara Lee sign out front, with Sara Lee baked goods served inside, but now it is not OK to have a Starbucks sign out front, with Starbucks goods inside. It is this selective emotional attachment that I resist. People apparently pick a select moment in time, and then anchor that in cement as the foundation for their emotional memory. Why is the MSB of November, 2012 the only MSB that counts? The "legacy" MSB looked like this:


People claim to not want change, but the MSB has changed many times over already. So why are all the other changes good ones, but this particular change is bad? Why do people think that the refurbishment will be a disaster when no one raised a stink about this?


If you haven't yet listened to Pete's rant, please do. He assures us that the people at DL would NEVER put up with this change. But the picture above is of DL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzco-like View Post
Therefore, they react emotionally when they hear news of change. They think "How badly could this change go?" Then they think updates of Journey Into Imagination, or Spaceship Earth, or Mission to Mars, and they realize that it could go horribly, horribly wrong. Am I, or Pete, wrong? Could it go horribly wrong? We all know the answer.
As to "What could go wrong", I think that I laid out that the worst case scenario would be an urban Starbucks. But that isn't going to happen and we all know it. It is going to be something far more in line with what exists now. The same? No. Agreeable? Probably. But it is difficult to use Spaceship Earth and Journey Into Imagination as example of what could go wrong. While certain nostalgia buffs may not think of those updates as improvements, rest assured that there are millions of visitors who enjoy those attractions as their memories and would hate to see them changed. The Old Guard can bark all it wants about how these changes were for the worse, but that is merely their opinion, and the changes have not stopped people from queing up and enjoying themselves. Personally, I thought the original Journey Into Imagination was an incomprehensible glop of crud. The current version? Better, but still in need of a fresh look. So one cannot simply look at the past and predict doom for the future. I don't know why it is so difficult to put a bit of faith in Disney to trust that they aren't going to transform turn-of-the-century Main Street into
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyV View Post
First, thank you for the kind words. As to your point on emotional attachment, I agree, but I believe that far too many people cling to an emotional attachment based on a reality that never existed. The MSB has changed corporate sponorship numerous times. Why was it OK to have a big Sara Lee sign out front, with Sara Lee baked goods served inside, but now it is not OK to have a Starbucks sign out front, with Starbucks goods inside. It is this selective emotional attachment that I resist. People apparently pick a select moment in time, and then anchor that in cement as the foundation for their emotional memory.

People claim to not want change, but the MSB has changed many times over already. So why are all the other changes good ones, but this particular change is bad? Why do people think that the refurbishment will be a disaster when no one raised a stink about this?

If you haven't yet listened to Pete's rant, please do. He assures us that the people at DL would NEVER put up with this change. But the picture above is of DL.

As to "What could go wrong", I think that I laid out that the worst case scenario would be an urban Starbucks. But that isn't going to happen and we all know it. It is going to be something far more in line with what exists now. The same? No. Agreeable? Probably. But it is difficult to use Spaceship Earth and Journey Into Imagination as example of what could go wrong. While certain nostalgia buffs may not think of those updates as improvements, rest assured that there are millions of visitors who enjoy those attractions as their memories and would hate to see them changed. The Old Guard can bark all it wants about how these changes were for the worse, but that is merely their opinion, and the changes have not stopped people from queing up and enjoying themselves. Personally, I thought the original Journey Into Imagination was an incomprehensible glop of crud. The current version? Better, but still in need of a fresh look. So one cannot simply look at the past and predict doom for the future. I don't know why it is so difficult to put a bit of faith in Disney to trust that they aren't going to transform turn-of-the-century Main Street into
BRA-VO SIR! Well said! If there was a LIKE button, I would be clicking it (repeatedly) right now!
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #15
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