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-   -   Check my FP+ Logic Regarding the Limit of 3 (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3084379)

GrnMtnMan 03-22-2013 12:16 PM

Check my FP+ Logic Regarding the Limit of 3
 
The worry that once FP+ is implemented, people will only be able to us FP thrice a day doesn't seem to stand up to logic. Consider that: 1) People today generally use more than 3 FP a day (assumption, but I think a safe one). And 2) More FP usage opportunities (attractions or shows/parades) are being added. There will therefore be more FP capacity once the FP+ options are added.

Unless the intent of FP+ is to get people away from FP usage and into stand-by lines (and have excess FP line capacity), then the 3 FP+ limit applies just to pre-booking FPs. Once you're in the park you'll be able to utilize the FP system in a way similar to the way its used today. Though instead of having to walk to a FP machine, you schedule a FP though a kiosk or personal Smartphone.

I'll be shocked off Disney wants to get more people into stand-by lines. In a standby line, people's satisfaction diminishes and they aren't spending money on food or merchandise.

How am I wrong?

MATTinNH 03-22-2013 12:54 PM

I think cutting down on FastPasses is excatly what they want. There are some people out there, ( and I agree ) that think FP's have caused stand by line times to be way higher than they were before FP's. It really can gum up the lines sometimes. I also think that all of interactive queues points to this.

I believe by the time everything they want to do is implented we we have a much more enjoyable experiance. FP will be faster, Standby will be a little shorter, and much more enjoyable.

I can remember going as a kid before FP, during Xmas, and the MK being at capacity, and lines still werent as bad as they are now.

I also didnt mind the lines as much. My family was very busy, both parents worked alot, and the 5 of us had some fun times talking, laughing and joking in line.

These new interactive queues will give families something to do and enjoy, while they are spending time together in those lines.

I think overall it will work.

DRDISNEYMD 03-22-2013 01:08 PM

~Fabulous post!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MATTinNH (Post 47878147)
I think cutting down on FastPasses is excatly what they want. There are some people out there, ( and I agree ) that think FP's have caused stand by line times to be way higher than they were before FP's. It really can gum up the lines sometimes. I also think that all of interactive queues points to this.

I believe by the time everything they want to do is implented we we have a much more enjoyable experiance. FP will be faster, Standby will be a little shorter, and much more enjoyable.

I can remember going as a kid before FP, during Xmas, and the MK being at capacity, and lines still werent as bad as they are now.

I also didnt mind the lines as much. My family was very busy, both parents worked alot, and the 5 of us had some fun times talking, laughing and joking in line.

These new interactive queues will give families something to do and enjoy, while they are spending time together in those lines.

I think overall it will work.

~Wow! I love your perspective on Fastpass Plus! I totally agree with this! :goodvibes

SHOREDAD 03-22-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MATTinNH (Post 47878147)
I think cutting down on FastPasses is excatly what they want. There are some people out there, ( and I agree ) that think FP's have caused stand by line times to be way higher than they were before FP's. It really can gum up the lines sometimes. I also think that all of interactive queues points to this. I agree

I believe by the time everything they want to do is implented we we have a much more enjoyable experiance. FP will be faster, Standby will be a little shorter, and much more enjoyable. I agree

I can remember going as a kid before FP, during Xmas, and the MK being at capacity, and lines still werent as bad as they are now.

I also didnt mind the lines as much. My family was very busy, both parents worked alot, and the 5 of us had some fun times talking, laughing and joking in line.

These new interactive queues will give families something to do and enjoy, while they are spending time together in those lines. I think this is an indication that indeed they want us standing in lines. I remember reading an article probably linked here on DIS about theme parks and a theory behind lines at theme parks. It basically said that while lines are inconvenient for guests and keep people from shopping and eating, they serve a purpose. IT helps control the crowds in the parks. People standing in line mean less people walking around the park, thus less traffic, and people don't feel as crowded. :confused3 Seems to make some sense.

I think overall it will work.

I can recall being DHS RR and standing in stand by and watching 15 - 20 minutes of FP people going through, then 1 or 2 groups of people in stand by then right back to 10 - 20 minutes of FP. Less Fast pass could mean lower stand by lines. :confused3

My thoughts. :)

GrnMtnMan 03-22-2013 01:44 PM

Don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, so can you bring your thoughts back to the subject of the 3 FP+ thing?

In any case I disagree with the notion that Disney wants to put more people into the standby lines. it could be, but I'd be very surprised if they are investing a billion dollars for something that will be very hard to measure, ie. higher guest satisfaction becaus standby lines are shorter. Rather than the more easily measured return on investment from additional food and merchandise sales.

tjkraz 03-22-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrnMtnMan (Post 47877729)
I'll be shocked off Disney wants to get more people into stand-by lines. In a standby line, people's satisfaction diminishes and they aren't spending money on food or merchandise.

Satisfaction diminishes because today the Standby lines move dreadfully slow due to the priority given to FP.

With fewer FPs distributed, Standby lines move faster. And the interactive queues help keep guests entertained along the way.

I agree totally with what Matt said. Not only do they appear to be limiting the number of FPs which can be obtained per day, they are dramatically growing the number of available options. Character meets, parade and fireworks viewing, Fantasmic and even high-capacity attractions like Haunted Mansion will have FP+.

FP+ will give everyone the opportunity to lock-in their high-priority attractions and (ideally) still tour the rest of the park, encountering reasonable Standby wait times.

It's been said that the original intent of FASTPASS was to get guests out of attraction queues and into gift shops and restaurants. But the claim seems to be that this phenomenon never materialized. Instead guests spent their time criss-crossing parks, picking up new FP tickets and redeeming the ones they already hold. Instead of guests spending more money, they ended up just clogging the walkways.

It is POSSIBLE they will still allow some same-day FP+ additions after entering the parks, but the interactive queue additions suggests that won't be the case. IMO, the reason Disney is investing in those Standby queues is because they will be getting more use in the near future.

Time will tell.

MATTinNH 03-22-2013 01:59 PM

The $1billion wasnt just for Fast Pass +. Its the whole My Magic + experience, which includes the Next Gen queues, and the ability to track peoples movements , be conected to their wireless devices while in the parks etc. All these things are part of making wait times shorter and more enjoyable. Its much bigger than FP+. If theres less FP's lines will get shorter. If the lines are more fun, less problems being in them. If they can tell that FL is crowded but FW isnt.....they will be able to bring out characters draw people out of line, or slow people from getting in them. They could have those characters have like a mini parade draw them out of line and into FW.

If FW gets crowed send 25% of the people there a coupon for a free ice cream at Caseys ( you know , theyll buy atleast another while they are there) send an other 25% a free fast pass for something in a less crowed area at that time. You can use this tech to do so many things.That can thinout and control crowd levels. That will do wonders for lines too.

Mike2023 03-22-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrnMtnMan (Post 47877729)
The worry that once FP+ is implemented, people will only be able to us FP thrice a day doesn't seem to stand up to logic. Consider that: 1) People today generally use more than 3 FP a day (assumption, but I think a safe one). And 2) More FP usage opportunities (attractions or shows/parades) are being added. There will therefore be more FP capacity once the FP+ options are added.

Unless the intent of FP+ is to get people away from FP usage and into stand-by lines (and have excess FP line capacity), then the 3 FP+ limit applies just to pre-booking FPs. Once you're in the park you'll be able to utilize the FP system in a way similar to the way its used today. Though instead of having to walk to a FP machine, you schedule a FP though a kiosk or personal Smartphone.

I'll be shocked off Disney wants to get more people into stand-by lines. In a standby line, people's satisfaction diminishes and they aren't spending money on food or merchandise.

How am I wrong?

I have been meaning to come talk about this theory for a while now and I agree 100%. I think there is going to be a limit to how many you can "pre book" but once you are at the park it works in a way thats close to the same to what happens now.

Everyone is freaking out that "traditional" fastpass is going away and that everyone is going to be forced to plan your day in advance. It's my opinion that the paper pass will indeed go away very soon but only as a delivery method of the actual pass. The act of walking to a kiosk and obtaining a return time for some time in the future will remain. It will just be tied to your band or account and no actual ticket will be required.

As far as disney wanting people to wait in line thats just not the case. Disney wants you to spend money in shops or on food, they don't want you in line as you can't part with you money that way. Disney wants you to get a reservation for a ride, and then shop until your return window is up. In reality is does not work out that way because instead of shopping people tend to jump in line for a different ride while waiting for there return time to come around.

The interactive lines are an attempt at occupying the guests that decide to wait in line, in reality, there is not much disney can do about them.

Tarheel girl 1975 03-22-2013 06:51 PM

I think Disney is trying to maximize capacity without building additional attractions. This will allow Disney to control crowd flow and direct traffic to less popular attractions. The average family may be able to experience more attractions with this system, but I do think Disney is trying to limit the "super users"who maximize fast pass use.

DRDISNEYMD 03-22-2013 08:06 PM

~Wow!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tjkraz (Post 47878689)
Satisfaction diminishes because today the Standby lines move dreadfully slow due to the priority given to FP.

With fewer FPs distributed, Standby lines move faster. And the interactive queues help keep guests entertained along the way.


I agree totally with what Matt said. Not only do they appear to be limiting the number of FPs which can be obtained per day, they are dramatically growing the number of available options. Character meets, parade and fireworks viewing, Fantasmic and even high-capacity attractions like Haunted Mansion will have FP+.

FP+ will give everyone the opportunity to lock-in their high-priority attractions and (ideally) still tour the rest of the park, encountering reasonable Standby wait times.

It's been said that the original intent of FASTPASS was to get guests out of attraction queues and into gift shops and restaurants. But the claim seems to be that this phenomenon never materialized. Instead guests spent their time criss-crossing parks, picking up new FP tickets and redeeming the ones they already hold. Instead of guests spending more money, they ended up just clogging the walkways.

It is POSSIBLE they will still allow some same-day FP+ additions after entering the parks, but the interactive queue additions suggests that won't be the case. IMO, the reason Disney is investing in those Standby queues is because they will be getting more use in the near future.

Time will tell.

~Thank you so much for this post! I totally agree with you -- very sharp logic. :goodvibes

EagleScout 03-23-2013 07:58 AM

Unfortunately for the posters on this thread, there is one possibly inconvenient fact - Disney picked the proposed limits because that may be the limit (or close to it) if everyone - or nearly everyone - uses the FP system. There is some interesting analysis to this effect on various threads

Mike2023 03-23-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleScout (Post 47884807)
Unfortunately for the posters on this thread, there is one possibly inconvenient fact - Disney picked the proposed limits because that may be the limit (or close to it) if everyone - or nearly everyone - uses the FP system. There is some interesting analysis to this effect on various threads

This is absolutely possible, but I'm not sure how likely. Without insider information its really hard to speculate.

With the addition of all the extra fast pass options I think they will more then double the amount of slots available in a given day. I think we can also assume that there will still be a demographic of guest that is not educated on the system and does not take advantage of it.

Mike2023 03-23-2013 08:33 AM

Another thing to think about,

Multiple people have mentioned the theory that lines will become shorter if there are no fastpass options to begin with. This is a mathematical impossibility. Let me try to explain.

Rides have a set capacity per hour that fastpass has no effect on. The ride itself does not distinguish between a fastpass rider and a standby rider its all the same when it comes to how many people ride the ride. Now, when you remove that fastpass option from it it will eliminate the need to hold the standby line to allow fastpass riders to ride resulting in the line moving faster, but in the end, the same amount of people will get to ride in any given day/hour.

The effect of removing fastpass would not be shorter lines/more rides for everyone in a giving day, it would be the equalization between the amount of rides a fastpass user gets and a none user gets.

The ONLY way to actually reduce waits is to change a part of the equation (increasing ride capacity per hour while keeping guest volume the same, increasing attractions in the park while keeping guest volume the same, or decreasing guest volume)

beer dave 03-23-2013 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike2023 (Post 47885072)
The ONLY way to actually reduce waits is to change a part of the equation (increasing ride capacity per hour while keeping guest volume the same, increasing attractions in the park while keeping guest volume the same, or decreasing guest volume)

If the majority of people do not have fast passes (true) then the majority of people will have reduced waits if there are no fastpasses. The lines will still be the same length.

Mike2023 03-23-2013 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer dave (Post 47885318)
If the majority of people do not have fast passes (true) then the majority of people will have reduced waits if there are no fastpasses. The lines will still be the same length.

I don't agree with you that the majority of people don't use fastpass, but yes if you don't use fastpass you will see a decrease in wait time as an individual, but the other demographic will see an increased wait time average per attraction. Like I said in my post, you see an equalization of wait times overall.

Also the lines will not be the same length, they will be longer as more people will actually be standing in them, they will move faster though.


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