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-   -   Question on alignment of MF and Use Year (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3042064)

Illini Al 01-05-2013 03:41 PM

Question on alignment of MF and Use Year
 
Long time lurker, still not an owner. :)

If I were to buy (resale) a Dec UY contract which has all of the '13 points available, I realize that I'd have to pay the full '13 MF at closing. I'm assuming that in Jan in '14, I'd have to start paying MF (either monthly or in a lump sum).
Are the MF I would pay in Jan of '14 considered fees against my '14 points which I wouldn't get until Dec of '14? Unless I'm missing something, I'd be paying MF on points I do not get until 11 months later?? (assuming I do not borrow those points into the 13 UY)
Please school me on the timing/alignment of MF and UY points. Thanks! :)

MickeyFan612 01-05-2013 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Al (Post 47092278)
Long time lurker, still not an owner. :)

If I were to buy (resale) a Dec UY contract which has all of the '13 points available, I realize that I'd have to pay the full '13 MF at closing. I'm assuming that in Jan in '14, I'd have to start paying MF (either monthly or in a lump sum).
Are the MF I would pay in Jan of '14 considered fees against my '14 points which I wouldn't get until Dec of '14? Unless I'm missing something, I'd be paying MF on points I do not get until 11 months later?? (assuming I do not borrow those points into the 13 UY)
Please school me on the timing/alignment of MF and UY points. Thanks! :)

I believe you are correct that every Jan all maint fees are due either by monthly or lump some no matter what your use year is! I just purchased a contract and asked the seller to pay 2013 maint fees and luckily for me they agreed! Everything is negotiable so don't hesitate to ask seller to pay the 2013 maint. fees especially since there are no 2012 points included w/ this particular contract! Good Luck to you!!

Chuck S 01-05-2013 04:16 PM

There is no alignment between Use Year and annual Maintenance fees.

Dues/maintenance fees are based upon a standard calendar year, and have nothing at all to due with use year.

Illini Al 01-05-2013 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck S (Post 47092652)
There is no alignment between Use Year and annual Maintenance fees.

Dues/maintenance fees are based upon a standard calendar year, and have nothing at all to due with use year.

Hmmm, then if I were to close on a Dec UY contract in Nov of 2013 that had all '13 points available, why would I owe a full year's worth of MF if there's only 2 months left in calendar year 2013?

Sandisw 01-05-2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Al (Post 47092706)
Hmmm, then if I were to close on a Dec UY contract in Nov of 2013 that had all '13 points available, why would I owe a full year's worth of MF if there's only 2 months left in calendar year 2013?

If buying from Disney, you wouldn't. They charge MF's based on the date you purcahse for the remainder of the year--unless its a resort not yet opened and then there are different rules.

If you purchase resale, everything is negotiable. So, if you were buying in November of 2013, you could negotiate with the owner in terms of how much of 2013 MF's to reimburse.

Since MF's are based on calendar year and ownership, I think what you reimburse an owner should be based on that. We bought a Dec UY contract in August, with all 2010 UY points, and still asked the owner to pay all the 2010 MF's. Our fees didn't start until 2011. It was part of our deal.

Good luck!

Illini Al 01-05-2013 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandisw (Post 47092777)
If buying from Disney, you wouldn't. They charge MF's based on the date you purcahse for the remainder of the year--unless its a resort not yet opened and then there are different rules.

If you purchase resale, everything is negotiable. So, if you were buying in November of 2013, you could negotiate with the owner in terms of how much of 2013 MF's to reimburse.

Since MF's are based on calendar year and ownership, I think what you reimburse an owner should be based on that. We bought a Dec UY contract in August, with all 2010 UY points, and still asked the owner to pay all the 2010 MF's. Our fees didn't start until 2011. It was part of our deal.

Good luck!


Got it. That's making more sense for me now. :thumbsup2

LisaS 01-05-2013 11:46 PM

If you bought a Dec UY contract from Disney and your first points were your Dec 2013 UY points, Disney would charge you dues starting from Dec 1, 2013 so for calendar year 2013 you would owe only 31 days worth of dues.

So in this situation is Disney giving you a full year of points for only one month of dues? No. You paid for the first month of your Dec 2013 UY points in calendar year 2013. You pay for the remaining 11 months worth of Dec 2013 UY points in calendar year 2014 plus the first month of your Dec 2014 UY points.

In the resale world, everything is negotiable. It's also the case that people don't understand what I explained above and take the approach "if you got the points you pay the dues". They would argue that if you got the Dec 2013 UY points, you should pay the full 2013 calendar year dues when in fact you should pay only 31 days worth.

CarolMN 01-06-2013 07:37 AM

Unless the overall cost of the contract including closing costs was a good value to me, I would be loath to pay (or reimburse) 2013 dues. (IMO, the overall cost is what is important, not who pays for what).

The 2013 points are good for stays that happen between 12/1/2013 and 11/30/2014 and if they were to be banked, they would be good for another year. So I would have 2 years to take advantage of those points before they expire.

I I wanted to use the points before 11/30/2013, I would have to borrow them. That means the points go from having a "life" of 24 months to expiring on 11/30/2013 - that's 11 months at best.

In a perfect world, the seller would pay 2013 dues on this contract. However, for resale everything is negotiable and again, it's the overall cost that matters.

Good luck with your journey to membership!

Dean 01-06-2013 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Al (Post 47092706)
Hmmm, then if I were to close on a Dec UY contract in Nov of 2013 that had all '13 points available, why would I owe a full year's worth of MF if there's only 2 months left in calendar year 2013?

While everything is negotiable, the neutral position for some of the brokers is "you get the points you pay the fees". This is generally true of most timeshares, even points systems, but DVC's calendar year fees are different. My guess as to why they approach it this way is they are used to dealing with other timeshares. To be honest, I've never understood why they can't get the concept when some are well aware of the system. On one of the contracts I bought years ago, the company wasn't as familiar with DVC and approached it this way. I balked explaining the calendar billing. They called DVC and then called me back admitting I was correct and adjusting the fees accordingly.

The bottom line is if you bought Dec 2013 UY with all points then and none for 2013 AND paid the 2013 maint fees you WOULD be overpaying for maint fees to the tune of 11/12 of the fees. Those extra fees would be credited to the seller and would not to go pay Disney. If you're ever trying to make this point and someone suggests you're incorrect, just ask what the fees would be if you bought from DVD. Sometimes they'll try to tell you it's a sales incentive that they waive the fees but this would be incorrect as well.

Sometimes you have to look at the big picture though.

Illini Al 01-06-2013 10:14 AM

Thanks for both the clarification and advice. In looking at every TTS listing that has no '12 points left, but full '13 points left, the listed MF due at closing comes out to 12 months worth of MF for that resort. Since MF is calendar based and not UY based, IN THEORY I should be paying the MF left for the remainder of the calendar year at the point of closing. So in my example above, if I closed on that Dec UY contract on July 1, I should be paying 6 months of MF, not 12 months. And yes, I do realize the total price is what I should be looking at. In that case, I'd be happy to pay an extra 6 months of MF if I was getting a great price on the contract points.
It's those TTS listings that made me believe that MF is tied to UY, not calendar year. But as suggested, if and when I make a resale offer, I will consider the total big picture and not get hung up on the MF due at closing.
BTW, his has not soured me on TSS. :) If and when I buy, I have every intention of buying resale through TTS. With everything I've learned about DVC through these boards, I want to be sure to patronize a major sponsor. Plus, I've read a lot more positive feedback on them than negative. :thumbsup2

ELMC 01-06-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Al (Post 47099352)
Thanks for both the clarification and advice. In looking at every TTS listing that has no '12 points left, but full '13 points left, the listed MF due at closing comes out to 12 months worth of MF for that resort. Since MF is calendar based and not UY based, IN THEORY I should be paying the MF left for the remainder of the calendar year at the point of closing. So in my example above, if I closed on that Dec UY contract on July 1, I should be paying 6 months of MF, not 12 months. And yes, I do realize the total price is what I should be looking at. In that case, I'd be happy to pay an extra 6 months of MF if I was getting a great price on the contract points.
It's those TTS listings that made me believe that MF is tied to UY, not calendar year. But as suggested, if and when I make a resale offer, I will consider the total big picture and not get hung up on the MF due at closing.
BTW, his has not soured me on TSS. :) If and when I buy, I have every intention of buying resale through TTS. With everything I've learned about DVC through these boards, I want to be sure to patronize a major sponsor. Plus, I've read a lot more positive feedback on them than negative. :thumbsup2

If you don't feel like splitting the maintenance fee hair with a broker, simply offer $5 less per point and offer to pay the fees. It's the same amount of money for you, but it might sound better to the seller. Good luck! :)

Dean 01-06-2013 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Al (Post 47099352)
Thanks for both the clarification and advice. In looking at every TTS listing that has no '12 points left, but full '13 points left, the listed MF due at closing comes out to 12 months worth of MF for that resort. Since MF is calendar based and not UY based, IN THEORY I should be paying the MF left for the remainder of the calendar year at the point of closing. So in my example above, if I closed on that Dec UY contract on July 1, I should be paying 6 months of MF, not 12 months. And yes, I do realize the total price is what I should be looking at. In that case, I'd be happy to pay an extra 6 months of MF if I was getting a great price on the contract points.
It's those TTS listings that made me believe that MF is tied to UY, not calendar year. But as suggested, if and when I make a resale offer, I will consider the total big picture and not get hung up on the MF due at closing.
BTW, his has not soured me on TSS. :) If and when I buy, I have every intention of buying resale through TTS. With everything I've learned about DVC through these boards, I want to be sure to patronize a major sponsor. Plus, I've read a lot more positive feedback on them than negative. :thumbsup2

From posts and interactions here, TSS is a big believer in the concept "you get the points you pay the fees". I agree you're likely better off just offering less than you would for a different contract. As a rule the price difference between a loaded and stripped contract does not represent the difference in value making loaded contracts a better value and stripped ones worse as a rule.

I think you missed part of the info though when you start talking about the July closing date and paying fees. Here's how DVC does fees. By Calendar year ongoing as we've discussed. For new purchases there are situations where you don't owe any fees for a time. These include your example of getting 2013 points but nothing else. In that situation with DVC you'd owe nothing until 1 Dec. The other is if your unit is not available if it's after the UY, in that case your fees start when the unit is ready even if after the UY starts. If you buy mid UY but get the full years points, they only charge you a part of the year. Some may call this a retail benefit but to me it's simply an acknowledgement that the points have less value due to the reduced opportunities and options with them. There are no situations with DVC that I am aware of where one buys retail and owes fees in arrears.


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