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WaltD4Me 09-05-2012 12:08 AM

Cameron / Disney Creative Differences......
 
IGN is reporting that there are delays with Avatar sequels and that James Cameron and Disney Imagineering are having creative differences...I am shocked! (not) ... I was never a fan of Avatarland, but I didn't think we'd ever really see it either...very curious as to what will happen next though.

From the IGN article.........

Remember back in June when James Cameron announced that he would be shooting three Avatar sequels simultaneously? Well, now it seems that the filmmaker may have been getting a little ahead of himself.

Indie Wire reports that Avatar 4 will not be a part of Cameron's back-to-back film shoot, according to producer Jon Landau. Additionally, it is still uncertain when production for Avatar 2 and Avatar 3 will begin as the former is currently slated for release no earlier than 2015.

The delays carry over into Cameron's World of Avatar attraction at Disney's Animal Kingdom, which was announced around this time last year. Due to creative differences between Cameron and Disney's Imagineer development team, it seems as though we'll be waiting even longer on that project as well.


Link to article: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/...-fourth-avatar

Euphscott 09-05-2012 02:27 PM

Just shocking!

In Disney's rush to "me too" by copying the Potter success, they run into trouble. It's sad, because Disney Imagineering used to be the pinnacle of creativity and imagination. They created many memorable and beloved theme park attractions without benefit of a pre built franchise.

I'd much rather see Disney spend its money creating its own new land(s) by allowing Imagineers to create - and I don't care if there is a movie it's based on or a book. It's a Small World, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, and so on are all attractions based only on the imagination of Disney's own - not a copy of someone else's projects. I suspect they'd save a lot of headaches and money - and if allowed to do so - create the next great them park icons that our children's generations will think upon fondly as we do with Walts' creations...

But that won't happen... :(

DisneyKevin 09-05-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphscott (Post 46059653)
I'd much rather see Disney spend its money creating its own new land(s) by allowing Imagineers to create - and I don't care if there is a movie it's based on or a book. It's a Small World, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, and so on are all attractions based only on the imagination of Disney's own - not a copy of someone else's projects. I suspect they'd save a lot of headaches and money - and if allowed to do so - create the next great them park icons that our children's generations will think upon fondly as we do with Walts' creations.

I couldnt agree with this more if I had posted it myself.

:thumbsup2

Stacy's a freak 09-05-2012 02:57 PM

Isn't Cameron the same guy who ALWAYS gets "overly creative" (read: over-budget and behind schedule) on every project?! We all could see this coming from a mile away. I seem to recall even NASA rejected a collaberation with Cameron for these very reasons. Who was the WDW think tank who struck this deal? :sad2:

Spaceace5150 09-05-2012 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphscott (Post 46059653)
Just shocking!



I'd much rather see Disney spend its money creating its own new land(s) by allowing Imagineers to create - and I don't care if there is a movie it's based on or a book. It's a Small World, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, and so on are all attractions based only on the imagination of Disney's own - not a copy of someone else's projects. I suspect they'd save a lot of headaches and money - and if allowed to do so - create the next great them park icons that our children's generations will think upon fondly as we do with Walts' creations...

But that won't happen... :(


The sad thing is that today probably none of those rides would have gotten the go ahead... without a known franchise there isn't enough plush and other merchandise to be sold.

WaltD4Me 09-05-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacy's a freak (Post 46060010)
Isn't Cameron the same guy who ALWAYS gets "overly creative" (read: over-budget and behind schedule) on every project?! We all could see this coming from a mile away. I seem to recall even NASA rejected a collaberation with Cameron for these very reasons. Who was the WDW think tank who struck this deal? :sad2:

Yep, James Cameron is widely known to be a control freak and perfectionist, I was shocked Disney decided to work with him...especially after basically not being to work with JK Rowling due to creative control issues. There was no think tank though, seems this one is all on Bob Iger, it was his big idea.

Spaceace5150 09-05-2012 07:59 PM

If you want to hear more on this, listen to the recent Unofficial Guide Podcast with Jim Hill and Len Testa. There is an Animal Kingdom edition where Jim talks about the delay...

WaltD4Me 09-05-2012 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceace5150 (Post 46063187)
The sad thing is that today probably none of those rides would have gotten the go ahead... without a known franchise there isn't enough plush and other merchandise to be sold.

Absolutely true. :( It's really a shame. I listened to an interview with Bob Gurr where he basically said the same thing. :sad2:

Euphscott 09-07-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisneyKevin (Post 46059859)
I couldnt agree with this more if I had posted it myself.

:thumbsup2

Thanks Kevin.
I know I am old school (if 41 is old school!) in that Disney used to be a real good mixing of synergy with existing franchises and really creative "we do it because we can." Goodness, EPCOT Center was practically devoid of Disney characters or connections of any kind when it opened. That would never get greenlit today.

Sadly, the best we will get from Imagineering anymore may be Carsland. I've not seen it yet, but reviews are amazing. And I am happy to hear that. But I wish it had been Marc Davis' western river ride with no connection to a movie at all. Instead, we get a great treatment for a movie that may or may not have been all that successful (I won't get into that argument!).

I guess I need to come to grips with the new reality and make my choices. Like Pete says with the park price increases, we do have a choice and when the line gets crossed...I guess creative has not crossed my "line" yet since I am visiting in December, but eventually nostalgia won't be able to keep pace with economics!

Here's to the Dave Smith interactions on PCC 4.0. I am quite excited about that!

Euphscott 09-07-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaltD4Me (Post 46063199)
Yep, James Cameron is widely known to be a control freak and perfectionist, I was shocked Disney decided to work with him...especially after basically not being to work with JK Rowling due to creative control issues. There was no think tank though, seems this one is all on Bob Iger, it was his big idea.

I wonder if this might play into the rumblings that John Lasseter and Bob Iger are not seeing eye to eye. Lasseter is as close to a Walt figure as we have, but I am a bit disappointed that the only projects he seems to take on with Disney are Pixar related. I would love to see more unrelated creative works!

And Spaceace - you are right - if you can't make a stuffed animal, it can't be a theme park attraction!

pilferk 09-07-2012 12:35 PM

I made the same comment on the News and rumors board, and will just transplant it here:

Quote:

Hold on, everybody.

If you trace the threads back through the entire rats nest, from the article quoted above, to the original IGN article, to the original source (an Indiewire Playlist article)...you'll see something very interesting.

Their entire reason for saying the AK Avatar project is delayed is....they expected to see concept art by now. That's it. Their whole reasoning. Not that they've talked to anyone at Disney or WDI or in the Cameron camp. That they haven't seen concept art.

Now, maybe it's true...maybe the project has been put on the back burner/delayed. But I'm not sure the reasoning behind THIS stream of articles is all that solid.
I don't know what Jim and Len have heard..so can't comment on that. But at least one of the sources of the IGN article, above, is questionable in the basis for it's conclusion.

DCTooTall 09-07-2012 04:22 PM

And before anyone starts to say that the fact we don't have Concept art yet is a strong hint that things are delayed, I offer up this:

Reports were that Imagineering was as shocked about the announcement as the rest of us were, with maybe even a week or couple days (if even) notice of the deal before the public announcement. It wasn't a case of even having existing blue sky ideas on paper before the announcement was made.

SO... In the year or so since the announcement was made, It is not at all inconceivable that we haven't seen any concept art when you factor in all the steps before it gets to that point.

The Disney Creatives and Cameron with his creatives would need to get together to discuss ideas on where to go with the property. They'd need to decide look and feel. They'd need to figure out what kind of attractions to do. Then they'd need to figure out how to put all the ideas into a cohesive land. Once all that had been done and agreed upon....THEN you might start getting the concept art people working on actual concept art [beyond rough preliminary stuff they might do to help visualize ideas]..... And that doesn't even get to the point of whatever ideas, concept art, etc... being released beyond the groups actively working on the ideas, thru the respective legal departments (Disney and Cameron), Public relations departments, and getting approved for release to the public by a press release or statement within an interview someplace.


To put it into perspective, We didn't even really get to see any concept art for the Test Track Refurb until it was closed down..... They obviously had ideas and plans LONG ago on the direction they were taking the refurb since the closure not only required a plan on how to accomplish the change.... but since it's a sponsored pavilion with GM a major partner in the attraction, Any changes on this level would've had to have gone thru not only Disney's approval process, but thru GM's approval process and contracts drawn up. And that was just a Refurb/'reimagineering' of an existing single attraction, Nothing at all on the scale of the work required to build a new land, complete with attractions, shops, etc.

LionKingRules84 09-09-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphscott (Post 46059653)
Just shocking!

In Disney's rush to "me too" by copying the Potter success, they run into trouble. It's sad, because Disney Imagineering used to be the pinnacle of creativity and imagination. They created many memorable and beloved theme park attractions without benefit of a pre built franchise.

I'd much rather see Disney spend its money creating its own new land(s) by allowing Imagineers to create - and I don't care if there is a movie it's based on or a book. It's a Small World, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, and so on are all attractions based only on the imagination of Disney's own - not a copy of someone else's projects. I suspect they'd save a lot of headaches and money - and if allowed to do so - create the next great them park icons that our children's generations will think upon fondly as we do with Walts' creations...

But that won't happen... :(

Slightly off topic but I'm waiting for the day when I start hearing people say(not Disney fans though) "Pirates of the Caribbean is based of the Johnny Depp movie right?" :sad2: I was excited for those movies mostly because it was based off of my favorite ride at Disney World not because Johnny Depp starred in it(though if he weren't in it it probably wouldn't have been as successful).

I do wish for new imagined attractions instead of those based off of another franchise but that seems to be where the parks are going these days. I understand the business side of it but it's still disappointing sometimes when you know what the Imagineers are capable of.

WaltD4Me 09-09-2012 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphscott (Post 46081132)
I wonder if this might play into the rumblings that John Lasseter and Bob Iger are not seeing eye to eye. Lasseter is as close to a Walt figure as we have, but I am a bit disappointed that the only projects he seems to take on with Disney are Pixar related. I would love to see more unrelated creative works!

And Spaceace - you are right - if you can't make a stuffed animal, it can't be a theme park attraction!

I've heard about Bob Iger and John Lasseter too. I even read somewhere that John Lasseter was really upset by the John Carter debacle (it was directed by Pixar's Andrew Stanton)...He placed alot of blame on the marketing and threatened to walk if Bob Iger didn't get rid of Rich Ross. I can't be sure, but this may have come from Jim Hill. I have also been disappointed Lasseter doesn't seem to be more involved in the parks beyond Pixar projects...not that I really blame him, but I'd love to see him involved in other aspects.


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