Official Star Wars Half Marathon Weekend - The Dark Side 2017

Ariel484 · Oct 26, 2016

There's no question that the running boom has died down - that's true everywhere, not just in Disney.

I'm just saying - I don't think they need 2 weekends with the same theme. And events are still open for both weekends (half and 10K for Light Side, challenge half and 5K for Dark Side).

I'll see myself out now. :wave:

Keels · Oct 26, 2016

Ariel484 said:
There's no question that the running boom has died down a that's true everywhere, not just in Disney.

I'm just saying - I don't think they need 2 weekends with the same theme. And events are still open for both weekends (half and 10K for Light Side, challenge half and 5K for Dark Side).

I'll see myself out now.

I think you're on to something ...

Tasmen · Oct 26, 2016

Ariel484 said:
There's no question that the running boom has died down a that's true everywhere, not just in Disney.

I'm just saying - I don't think they need 2 weekends with the same theme. And events are still open for both weekends (half and 10K for Light Side, challenge half and 5K for Dark Side).

I'll see myself out now.

To be fair, it's probably on both coasts because it is so popular. Can you imagine the frustration of people that want to do a Star Wars run event but can only do it on their coast? Not everyone can travel across the country to do a run. Only reason I can this time is we are doing a lady only trip and are telling our kids 'too bad, so sad'

Keels · Oct 26, 2016

It can't be THAT popular if it's not sold out and RunDisney is offering registration discounts AND swag giveaways at race expos around the country.

That's basically the long and short of it. Neither weekend is sold out, so clearly the demand (coupled with the price point) is not there at this point - not just with the Star Wars races, with RunDisney races in general. SW races are just far more noticeable because there are two of them that aren't sold out. On top of that, the inaugural WDW was such a disaster, they seriously knee-capped themselves on repeat registration - legacy doesn't have to privileges it used to and if you only have one race in your budget, why would you re-race one that was a disaster?

In defense of the "lady race weekends", you don't see much conversation about the interest in those because a nuclear bomb could hit WDW and Princess would still sell out.

In a RunDisney market that is already oversaturated and overpriced, two wide open (and discounted) weekends sharing the same theme is definitely a head-scratcher.

FOR ME - I will never pay to do a Star Wars race. I don't know a thing about Star Wars, I haven't watched the movies nor do I have interest, I wouldn't wear the shirt or anything. I love RunDisney races, but I'm not waking up to do a Star Wars race - even if it's free. And I know I'm not alone in that thinking. Star Wars is a 100-percent non-starter for me. Not even at Disneyland where I prefer the courses.

rteetz · Oct 26, 2016

Keels said:
It can't be THAT popular if it's not sold out and RunDisney is offering registration discounts AND swag giveaways at race expos around the country.

That's basically the long and short of it. Neither weekend is sold out, so clearly the demand (coupled with the price point) is not there at this point - not just with the Star Wars races, with RunDisney races in general. SW races are just far more noticeable because there are two of them that aren't sold out. On top of that, the inaugural WDW was such a disaster, they seriously knee-capped themselves on repeat registration - legacy doesn't have to privileges it used to and if you only have one race in your budget, why would you re-race one that was a disaster?

In defense of the "lady race weekends", you don't see much conversation about the interest in those because a nuclear bomb could hit WDW and Princess would still sell out.

In a RunDisney market that is already oversaturated and overpriced, two wide open (and discounted) weekends sharing the same theme is definitely a head-scratcher.

FOR ME - I will never pay to do a Star Wars race. I don't know a thing about Star Wars, I haven't watched the movies nor do I have interest, I wouldn't wear the shirt or anything. I love RunDisney races, but I'm not waking up to do a Star Wars race - even if it's free. And I know I'm not alone in that thinking. Star Wars is a 100-percent non-starter for me. Not even at Disneyland where I prefer the courses.

But see I get they aren't sold out but neither is avengers, or WDW weekend. Tink is still available too right? I just think we are in a bad spot with rundisney right now. Running overall might be on the decline but with pricing, and so many other factors I think people are starting to really think twice before signing up for any race.

Keels · Oct 26, 2016

rteetz said:
But see I get they aren't sold out but neither is avengers, or WDW weekend. Tink is still available too right? I just think we are in a bad spot with rundisney right now. Running overall might be on the decline but with pricing, and so many other factors I think people are starting to really think twice before signing up for any race.

RunDisney went for a cash-grab thinking that they could make $$ by adding a second Star Wars race weekend and double-dip with the Kessel Run - pulling on the popularity of the franchise. Financially, I don't think they would tell you that it truthfully paid off given the drop-off in year two

As for Avengers - it's a West Coast race on the SAME EXACT DAYS as Rock 'n' Roll Las Vegas ... the premiere RnR event that also happens to be unique. I don't think the theme for that one is the problem as much as the weekend/date. I'd love to see what happens with a date change, but I'm planning on Avengers (or whatever that race is) in 2017 instead of DLH.

The real problem - if we're doing real talk - is that there just isn't anything unique about any of the race weekends anymore ... I mean, even the new courses are incredibly uninspired. Make Star Wars "Dark Side" a night race to mix it up and make it stand-out among a sea of race weekends that are all the same. Add a relay. Something.

rteetz · Oct 26, 2016

Keels said:
RunDisney went for a cash-grab thinking that they could make $$ by adding a second Star Wars race weekend and double-dip with the Kessel Run - pulling on the popularity of the franchise. Financially, I don't think they would tell you that it truthfully paid off given the drop-off in year two

As for Avengers - it's a West Coast race on the SAME EXACT DAYS as Rock 'n' Roll Las Vegas ... the premiere RnR event that also happens to be unique. I don't think the theme for that one is the problem as much as the weekend/date. I'd love to see what happens with a date change, but I'm planning on Avengers (or whatever that race is) in 2017 instead of DLH.

The real problem - if we're doing real talk - is that there just isn't anything unique about any of the race weekends anymore ... I mean, even the new courses are incredibly uninspired. Make Star Wars "Dark Side" a night race to mix it up and make it stand-out among a sea of race weekends that are all the same. Add a relay. Something.

I think that's the big thing here. People will do year 1 (inaugural) but won't continue after because there isn't a draw for them. If I do the Kessel run once why should I do it again? Especially if they raise prices.

I didn't know about rock n roll vegas. I'm sure that has something to do with it but I don't see people going nuts about the theme either. I'm a marvel fan and even I don't have a huge urge to do that.

I completely agree here. I love Marathon weekend and want to keep doing that but I can see the uniqueness of the other weekends wearing down. Pricing, less course entertainment, actual courses being not as great, even the medals in some races aren't changing much from year to year.

The Expert · Oct 26, 2016

Ariel484 said:
This may be an unpopular thing to say in the Star Wars thread...but I don't think they need 2 Star Wars races. They have other IPs they could draw from for more variety.

Please don't throw things at me...

So long as they don't change it before I get my Kessel Run medal in 2018, that's fine. BUT NOT UNTIL THEN!!!

Sleepless Knight · Oct 27, 2016

I actually think that races not selling out immediately is a good thing. For a few years, if you wanted to race a runDisney event you had to be online the moment any race went on sale and then hope for the best. The horror stories of families where one spouse got registered and the race sold out before the other spouse could be registered were numerous. In those years, demand was substantially higher than supply. Nobody wins. To meet demand, runDisney increased the supply and doubled the number of races offered on the west coast. They also added a 4th 1/2 race weekend to WDW thus evening out the offerings on each coast. While I believe that cost plays a part, the only race I think runDisney is really worried about is Avengers. The theme is fine, but I'm not sure how many people currently associate the Marvel brand with Disney. Yes, Disney owns Marvel, but Lucasfilm has been in the parks since 1987 so the connection was already there. Marvel has had some character meet and greets in Anaheim and that's about it.

As for Star Wars, I heard a lot of people complaining that runDisney should have done the Star Wars race only at WDW. I think they believed that there was sufficient demand for an east coast Star Wars race as well. And there might be. 2017 has Star Wars Celebration Orlando one week before Dark Side. Between Episode VIII and the 40th anniversary of Star Wars itself, that's a very popular event for fans.

I'm not convinced that the theme is the cause of races not selling out as fast as much as the saturation. There's a lot more supply now so races aren't going to sell out as quickly. We would need to see actual numbers, but it is possible that runDisney is selling more bibs now than they did before. And if saturation is why races aren't selling out as quickly as they used to, no amount of theme changing will alter that reality. And while the cost is expensive, I think it has a greater impact on runners who would run multiple runDisney events during the year.

Obviously, I'm very biased as a Star Wars fan and love the theme. I get those who want to see different themes such as Pixar. But at the same time runDisney believed that there was enough demand to create a special medal for runners who complete both the Princess and the Tinker Bell. Why shouldn't they take advantage of the popularity of Star Wars combined with the distinct divide between the Light Side and the Dark Side to create a special Star Wars medal?

All that said, if sales are truly disastrous on these events we'll see runDisney make changes. But we need to look at the total picture beyond any race not selling out. What if a race doesn't sell out, but increases hotel occupancy and/or park attendance?

cavepig · Oct 27, 2016

Keels said:
It can't be THAT popular if it's not sold out and RunDisney is offering registration discounts AND swag giveaways at race expos around the country.

That's basically the long and short of it. Neither weekend is sold out, so clearly the demand (coupled with the price point) is not there at this point - not just with the Star Wars races, with RunDisney races in general. SW races are just far more noticeable because there are two of them that aren't sold out. On top of that, the inaugural WDW was such a disaster, they seriously knee-capped themselves on repeat registration - legacy doesn't have to privileges it used to and if you only have one race in your budget, why would you re-race one that was a disaster?

In defense of the "lady race weekends", you don't see much conversation about the interest in those because a nuclear bomb could hit WDW and Princess would still sell out.

In a RunDisney market that is already oversaturated and overpriced, two wide open (and discounted) weekends sharing the same theme is definitely a head-scratcher.

FOR ME - I will never pay to do a Star Wars race. I don't know a thing about Star Wars, I haven't watched the movies nor do I have interest, I wouldn't wear the shirt or anything. I love RunDisney races, but I'm not waking up to do a Star Wars race - even if it's free. And I know I'm not alone in that thinking. Star Wars is a 100-percent non-starter for me. Not even at Disneyland where I prefer the courses.

....And you don't have to sign up, but thanks for sharing how much you don't like Star Wars on the Star Wars thread. They are changing the course to hopefully fix the problems they had this year and I don't think I would say the inaugural year was a disaster, still many people loved it and had fun and are returning. At least they tried a new course since people complain about them reusing courses. My parents enjoyed it as their first RunDisney races.

I'm not sure why people get worked up over if races sell out. I think it's great, then people who don't know about it at first still can get in.

camaker · Oct 27, 2016

Sleepless Knight said:
I actually think that races not selling out immediately is a good thing. For a few years, if you wanted to race a runDisney event you had to be online the moment any race went on sale and then hope for the best. The horror stories of families where one spouse got registered and the race sold out before the other spouse could be registered were numerous. In those years, demand was substantially higher than supply. Nobody wins. To meet demand, runDisney increased the supply and doubled the number of races offered on the west coast. They also added a 4th 1/2 race weekend to WDW thus evening out the offerings on each coast. While I believe that cost plays a part, the only race I think runDisney is really worried about is Avengers. The theme is fine, but I'm not sure how many people currently associate the Marvel brand with Disney. Yes, Disney owns Marvel, but Lucasfilm has been in the parks since 1987 so the connection was already there. Marvel has had some character meet and greets in Anaheim and that's about it.

As for Star Wars, I heard a lot of people complaining that runDisney should have done the Star Wars race only at WDW. I think they believed that there was sufficient demand for an east coast Star Wars race as well. And there might be. 2017 has Star Wars Celebration Orlando one week before Dark Side. Between Episode VIII and the 40th anniversary of Star Wars itself, that's a very popular event for fans.

I'm not convinced that the theme is the cause of races not selling out as fast as much as the saturation. There's a lot more supply now so races aren't going to sell out as quickly. We would need to see actual numbers, but it is possible that runDisney is selling more bibs now than they did before. And if saturation is why races aren't selling out as quickly as they used to, no amount of theme changing will alter that reality. And while the cost is expensive, I think it has a greater impact on runners who would run multiple runDisney events during the year.

Obviously, I'm very biased as a Star Wars fan and love the theme. I get those who want to see different themes such as Pixar. But at the same time runDisney believed that there was enough demand to create a special medal for runners who complete both the Princess and the Tinker Bell. Why shouldn't they take advantage of the popularity of Star Wars combined with the distinct divide between the Light Side and the Dark Side to create a special Star Wars medal?

All that said, if sales are truly disastrous on these events we'll see runDisney make changes. But we need to look at the total picture beyond any race not selling out. What if a race doesn't sell out, but increases hotel occupancy and/or park attendance?

I think lack of sell outs is a good thing for us as runners moving forward. There have been many conversations on here that runDisney is charging more and more for less and less. As long as the races are filling up, they have no incentive to reverse that trend. Once they hit a tipping point where races are significantly under capacity and they are leaving a lot of money on the table, they will have to reevaluate the value of the experience that they are providing and will hopefully look for ways to entice runners back.

opusone · Oct 27, 2016

Ariel484 said:
There's no question that the running boom has died down a that's true everywhere, not just in Disney.

Keels said:
Neither weekend is sold out, so clearly the demand (coupled with the price point) is not there at this point - not just with the Star Wars races, with RunDisney races in general.

rteetz said:
Running overall might be on the decline but with pricing, and so many other factors I think people are starting to really think twice before signing up for any race.

Sleepless Knight said:
For a few years, if you wanted to race a runDisney event you had to be online the moment any race went on sale and then hope for the best.

What I find so odd is not that they (rD races in general) don't sell out immediately like they used to, but that they now take so long to sell out or might not sell out at all. I agree with all the discussion about all the race weekends basically being the same (just with different themes) as well as the general running decline; however, I would expect the registration decline to be more gradual. Like at first they don't sell out in the first hour, but still sell out over a day or two, then a week or two, then a month, then maybe not at all. It just seems like it's been a huge, drastic swing. Personally, like others, I am happy that they don't sell out immediately, so that it is easier to register, but I do worry about the rD franchise long-term.

cavepig said:
I don't think I would say the inaugural year was a disaster, still many people loved it and had fun and are returning.

I agree. I had a great time at the inaugural Dark Side weekend, and I did not experience any of the issues that others did. Therefore, I am returning in 2017. However, I think I would have been pretty frustrated if I had experienced the bottlenecks and bus lines (which I think were the biggest common issues). Hopefully, the change of course will alleviate the bottlenecks.

camaker said:
Once they hit a tipping point where races are significantly under capacity and they are leaving a lot of money on the table, they will have to reevaluate the value of the experience that they are providing and will hopefully look for ways to entice runners back.

My worry is that once they are under capacity, they start questioning whether the rD franchise is even worth it. I hope that they reevaluate and try to entice runners back, but they may just shut down the whole operation if it's not very profitable.

rteetz · Oct 27, 2016

opusone said:
Personally, like others, I am happy that they don't sell out immediately, so that it is easier to register, but I do worry about the rD franchise long-term.

I think this is key here. The consumer is happy they aren't selling out long term but runDisney isn't happy and they might start making some serious changes if they continue that way. Some of those changes might not be good either. They could possibly cut down on the number of registrations for example.

Chasing Dopey · Oct 27, 2016

I doubt they would scrap it entirely. The WDW Marathon is still the 5th or 6th largest in the country.

I looked back at some numbers that I thought were interesting. The big half marathons last year were all in the same ballpark: 21k at WDW, 20k at Princess, 18k at SWDS. (These are the number of finishers.) There was 13k for W&D, but I understand there were also weather issues that could have affected that. (I think there are 15k bibs for this year, so even though they are mimicking the other races, they are keeping that one smaller.) I think these were all sell outs, except for some bibs still available through travel agents. It will be interesting to see how these number compare in 2017.

But I'm not worried. I do wonder if they will be able to maintain two Star Wars themed runs going at the same time, but Southern California has a ton of people, so that helps. And I expect them to noticeably upgrade Dark Side next year. The original was rushed, and it showed. They've got a lot of time to learn and adapt, so I'm feeling good about this one.

MommaoffherRocker · Oct 27, 2016

I was listening to The Mickey Miles and More podcast a few weeks ago and the subject was deferrals.(That's another reason I think registrations are slowing down. It's kind of a gamble to sign up so far in advance.) Anyways one of their guests had the VP of Disney sports reach out to him after he sent an email. He basically said the VP couldn't tell him much about the changes being made but that changes were coming to address the problems people are having with runDisney. He quoted the VP as say "you can't turn an aircraft carrier around on a dime". So I think they know people are unhappy and I don't think they will get rid of runDisney. I also noticed they haven't put out the calendar for the end of 2017/ early 2018 (last year it was out by now) hopefully that means they are following through with the changes.

PrincessV · Oct 27, 2016

Ariel484 said:
This may be an unpopular thing to say in the Star Wars thread...but I don't think they need 2 Star Wars races. They have other IPs they could draw from for more variety.

Please don't throw things at me...

I'm okay with that. they should absolutely get rid of that pesky Light Side event held on the wrong coast and allow the Dark Side events to take their rightful place as head honcho of the rD universe.

~~~

Some food for thought...

This selling out within minutes thing is a relatively new phenomenon. As recently as 2012 races did not sell out until very close to the actual race weekend, if at all - I registered for the 2012 PHM 5K less than a month out. So I don't believe what we're seeing now with races not selling out is a decline from the norm, but a leveling off from a few weird years back to normal. Also, note that race capacities are MUCH higher now than they were 5 or more years ago; they increased caps to meet demand. So if demand goes back to pre-boom levels, but higher caps are still in place, sellouts may not happen but rD isn't necessarily pouring more money into the race than can be recouped through registrations. If they have 5K fewer people register for a race, they simply dedicate less resources (volunteers, food/drinks, etc.) to that race.

cavepig · Oct 27, 2016

rteetz said:
I think this is key here. The consumer is happy they aren't selling out long term but runDisney isn't happy and they might start making some serious changes if they continue that way. Some of those changes might not be good either. They could possibly cut down on the number of registrations for example.

Is RunDisney unhappy? I don't think they are suffering, races still are drawing a lot of people & vendors are still signing up to be exhibitors at the expo.

...But Darkside is going to be great & I am super excited for it! Bring on all the Star Wars....

Ariel484 · Oct 27, 2016

PrincessV said:
I'm okay with that. they should absolutely get rid of that pesky Light Side event held on the wrong coast and allow the Dark Side events to take their rightful place as head honcho of the rD universe.

PrincessV said:
Some food for thought...

This selling out within minutes thing is a relatively new phenomenon. As recently as 2012 races did not sell out until very close to the actual race weekend, if at all - I registered for the 2012 PHM 5K less than a month out. So I don't believe what we're seeing now with races not selling out is a decline from the norm, but a leveling off from a few weird years back to normal. Also, note that race capacities are MUCH higher now than they were 5 or more years ago; they increased caps to meet demand. So if demand goes back to pre-boom levels, but higher caps are still in place, sellouts may not happen but rD isn't necessarily pouring more money into the race than can be recouped through registrations. If they have 5K fewer people register for a race, they simply dedicate less resources (volunteers, food/drinks, etc.) to that race.

This is a great point. Similar to what you said, I just looked back through my email and I registered for the 2014 Royal Family 5K 1 month out. I guess with higher capacities and more race weekends overall (in addition to some other factors, I'm sure), it shouldn't be such a surprise that the events don't sell out like they did for awhile.

Tasmen · Oct 27, 2016

Chasing Dopey said:
But I'm not worried. I do wonder if they will be able to maintain two Star Wars themed runs going at the same time, but Southern California has a ton of people, so that helps. And I expect them to noticeably upgrade Dark Side next year. The original was rushed, and it showed. They've got a lot of time to learn and adapt, so I'm feeling good about this one.

Southern California has a HUGE disney going population. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Star Wars run stay on the west coast as well as on the east coast.

I also don't think it's a bad thing that stuff doesn't sell out on release day. People miss out that way and it causes an undo amount of stress trying to make sure that you get all the races you want to sign up for for all the people you have going with you. I get enough of that stress trying to buy Penny Arcade Expo tickets or booking a Disney cruise on opening day.

Sleepless Knight · Oct 27, 2016

PrincessV said:
I'm okay with that. they should absolutely get rid of that pesky Light Side event held on the wrong coast and allow the Dark Side events to take their rightful place as head honcho of the rD universe.

~~~

I'll agree to that only if WDW cancels the planned Star Wars Land expansion thus leaving Star Wars Land only in Disneyland.

We need to keep the Force balanced on both coasts after all. In the case of wildly popular properties, Disney wants as much balance as they can reasonably get.

Official Star Wars Half Marathon Weekend - The Dark Side 2017

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