This back to school supply is going to cut into my Disney budget...Epi Pen Increase

wendow · Aug 27, 2016

SGB13 said:
The pharmacy should be able to give you a longer expiration date than 7 months! If they can't, don't accept it. Ask for your prescription to be sent to a competitors pharmacy and get a longer expiration date from them. Remember, you are the consumer. They are working for you.
And I am not sure how available it is yet, but the generic is here in NC. I filled a prescription with the generic yesterday. Good luck.

I am the one who posted about our Epipen only being good for 7 mos. My dh picked it up and did not check the date (he had no idea...) and of course, the pharmacy would not let him exchange since he came home with it. I talked to a friend today who has a dd with a peanut allergy also and she said she has gotten pens good for less than a year several times. Ours have typically been good for right at a year.

Looking forward to hearing more about the generic option as these become more widely available.

Gracie09 · Aug 27, 2016

gottalovepluto said:
I'm not usually one for complaining about exec salaries but in this case I must agree. The justification for raising the price is they need money for R&D and that makes me so upset. Any other business has to put money aside from their sales over many years to do R&D- not wait years for the competition to go under and then strangle consumers looking for the only life saving option.

When the news broke on Mylan it absolutely made my stomach turn and I don't even use this medication. It also boggled my mind that they can do this and there won't be any consequences. And if Mylan can do a 500% increase on EpiPen, a medicine widely associated with saving children's lives in the public's mind, the floodgates are opened on all drugs price increase wise IMHO.

What makes me upset is much of the cost of r&d including salaries and other overhead is deductible as a dollar per dollar tax credit. So the govt (and us) are paying for the development of the drugs and then getting price gouged to pay for the development of new drugs that they can deduct the cost of on their taxes

quandrea · Aug 27, 2016

JediBonas said:
Yup, we need three for my son (one for school, one for our house and one for his grandparents), if we haven't met our deductible for the year we pay $250/each (if I recall, it might have been more). It is INSANE. He also needs budesidone which is a daily inhaled med for asthma and that cost us $300 for a month supply last time.

On a related note, yesturday was the last day of daycare for my son before he starts kindergarten and the daycare center COULD NOT FIND his epi-pen. My husband was livid (he picked the kids up). I am angry as well, what would have happened in an emergency? They make them stay locked up in the office and then can't FIND it??? Waiting to call this morning

This made my blood run cold. The Epi pen should be ON the child's person at all times. My children are homeschooled so I'm not that familiar with policies but seconds matter and that pen should be within reach at every moment. Locked in a school/daycare office is not an acceptable policy.

quandrea · Aug 27, 2016

wendow said:
I am the one who posted about our Epipen only being good for 7 mos. My dh picked it up and did not check the date (he had no idea...) and of course, the pharmacy would not let him exchange since he came home with it. I talked to a friend today who has a dd with a peanut allergy also and she said she has gotten pens good for less than a year several times. Ours have typically been good for right at a year.

Looking forward to hearing more about the generic option as these become more widely available.

Always really careful about this. I have the pharmacy bring me the pens and I check the expiration date. Pick the one farthest out. I've also been known to leave a pharmacy with a poo choice of pens and go elsewhere.

CMNJ · Aug 27, 2016

ktate82 said:
You can also ask your doctor to write for an "epinephrine auto injector" and not Epi-pen. When they write for the Epi-pen, it's a name brand and that is what the pharmacy gives you. The drug is an old drug and is cheap with a generic, but it is the injector that has a patent on it. So they can charge whatever they want because no one else can make that type of injector. The generic usually has different instructions (may require the user to remove two caps instead of one), so just make sure you know how to use it as it is different. States are also starting to allow EMS to not carry Epi-pens and just carry vials of epinephrine and draw up the dose in a syringe and give it as dread pirate asked. That's an option, but you have to be confident you can do that in an emergency if you go that route.

I agree. In Pennsylvania the "generic" cannot be substituted for Epipen as it is not an approved generic (due to the difference in auto injector not the actual medicine). Having the doctor write it out in generic form would allow the pharmacist to legally dispense the epinephrine auto injector that is less expensive than Epipen.
I also would not recommend switching to vials and needles for a child with an allergy simply because that is harder and more intimidating for the average person to inject than an auto injector. Since this is something that is not frequently administered (hopefully one never has to use it) there isn't time to get comfortable doing it in an emergency. Since the child may be in the care of others when a reaction occurs you want something as simple as possible for others to use as well. Seconds and minutes matter with anaphylaxis and someone struggling to use a syringe and vial for the first time is not what you want.
Here's the website for the non Epipen brand autoinjector for anyone interested in reading up on it.
http://www.epinephrineautoinject.com/

mom2rtk · Aug 27, 2016

Thankfully we are not part of this mess since my son hasn't had an Epipen for years.

But my hope is that word on the alternate generic product continues to spread, allergy doctors in droves change their prescribing habits, and this company loses a huge chunk of their business. It would serve them right.

bcla · Aug 27, 2016

CMNJ said:
I agree. In Pennsylvania the "generic" cannot be substituted for Epipen as it is not an approved generic (due to the difference in auto injector not the actual medicine). Having the doctor write it out in generic form would allow the pharmacist to legally dispense the epinephrine auto injector that is less expensive than Epipen.
I also would not recommend switching to vials and needles for a child with an allergy simply because that is harder and more intimidating for the average person to inject than an auto injector. Since this is something that is not frequently administered (hopefully one never has to use it) there isn't time to get comfortable doing it in an emergency. Since the child may be in the care of others when a reaction occurs you want something as simple as possible for others to use as well. Seconds and minutes matter with anaphylaxis and someone struggling to use a syringe and vial for the first time is not what you want.
Here's the website for the non Epipen brand autoinjector for anyone interested in reading up on it.
http://www.epinephrineautoinject.com/

Some states (mine included) allow another injector to be substituted without going back to a doctor, but I believe the patient has to OK it. A lot of doctors seem to prescribe EpiPen based on brand recognition alone. Also, a lot of organizations have been stressing that there should be no substitute for the exact product prescribed. I don't buy it though. Still, this publicity is getting a lot of people to pay more attention, including doctors who are conscious of price sensitive patients. Maybe they will prescribe the generic at the request of the patient.

http://www.gratefulfoodie.com/epinephrine-auto-injector-confusion-explained/

I remember a demonstration in a college class. It was really a class presentation on a personal topic, and this guy was talking about instructions for anaphylaxis treatments. There was still a pre filled syringe on the market that came in a kit with a tourniquet (a ring with a string), and an antihistamine tablet. Then he showed us the EpiPen. Even pre filled, there were more steps (removing the cap, taking out the plunger sleeve) that made the syringe more difficult. Apparently one company is working on a new version. I think I could manage a syringe, but I'm wondering what they had to work on when they were initially turned down by the FDA.

There's already a similar product, but it's for stuff like drug overdoses with a needle long enough to reach the heart (ever see Pulp Fiction?). It also puts out a 1:10000 dilution and 3 times as much ephinephrine as an EpiPen or generic. This place sells it for less than $10.

http://www.buyemp.com/product/epinephrine-prefilled-syringe

ajasmom · Aug 27, 2016

barkley said:
curious-how many pens does the school require you have on hand at any given time? I ask b/c my son has a couple of meds he MUST have at school and since he's in a program that takes him off campus (that won't permit anyone to administer his med except HIM) we've gotten into a situation wherein he technically needs 2 bottles of the meds-both of which must have current labels on them.

fortunately I don't pay much for a prescription BUT if it's a scrip that the doctor only prescribes as needed once a month then I'm out of pocket a horrendous amount to get a second bottle.

I finally had the school tell me what their 'line in the sand' policy on how many of these meds (within an individual bottle) ds was required to have on campus each day. when I found it was less than the number of one of his script bottles held I had the pharmacy do up a second bottle which I put half the supply into. the school notifies me when his supply is getting low so I retrieve the bottle and put some of my at home supply into it and return it to the school (I just keep all the normal refills on hand at home to provide to the school when needed).

if the pens come in multi packs of say 3 couldn't each location just get one (to be immediately replaced upon use) or at worst buy 2 boxes and provide each place with 2?

you may already be familiar with this but in case you are not-review The Network for Public Health Law website's section on Injury Prevention: Food Allergies. there are states that REQUIRE their schools acquire and stockpile epi pens for students w/documented need, there are states that medical provider write out scrips to the school who purchase (or have them donated by manufactures) epi pens for students w/documented needs (so if they have a current population of 20 kids w/documented needs the school has to stockpile 40 epi pens at any given time-AT THE SCHOOL'S COST).

it's worth it to take a look and see what if any laws are in place for the district one's child attends.

Our pharmacy will provide a second bottle with a label and we just split the one refill into the multiple bottles. You may want to see if your pharmacy will do this

wendow · Aug 28, 2016

quandrea said:
This made my blood run cold. The Epi pen should be ON the child's person at all times. My children are homeschooled so I'm not that familiar with policies but seconds matter and that pen should be within reach at every moment. Locked in a school/daycare office is not an acceptable policy.

Yes, we homeschool too BUT we do a co-op through our public school for homeschool kids. My oldest kids go two days a week. This past school year was the first year my oldest dd was allowed to 'self-carry' her Epipen. Previously, it had to be locked up in the nurses office in a box. It was also the first year she ever needed her Epipen and the fact that it was right there, within seconds of grabbing it, she was injecting, probably saved her life. Had she needed to wait for someone to radio the office, get into the nurses office and get the Epipen out of a locked box and get it to my dd who was in the furthest wing, would have added 3-5 mins to the ordeal. My dd could not breathe so seconds to minutes would have made a huge difference. Never again would I allow my child's Epipen to not be in her reach!

wendow · Aug 28, 2016

quandrea said:
Always really careful about this. I have the pharmacy bring me the pens and I check the expiration date. Pick the one farthest out. I've also been known to leave a pharmacy with a poo choice of pens and go elsewhere.

I am normally really careful and have been known to send one back and request another. But this was my dh who picked it up, without consulting me...He did call back and ask what could be done. They would not return, of course, but they would sell us another pair at 50% off but even then the latest expiration was 10 mos out so only 3 mos further than what we had received. One, we would have to still spend another $270 to get that pair (at 50% off), and two, we do not need four Epipens so we just kept what we had.

quandrea · Aug 28, 2016

wendow said:
I am normally really careful and have been known to send one back and request another. But this was my dh who picked it up, without consulting me...He did call back and ask what could be done. They would not return, of course, but they would sell us another pair at 50% off but even then the latest expiration was 10 mos out so only 3 mos further than what we had received. One, we would have to still spend another $270 to get that pair (at 50% off), and two, we do not need four Epipens so we just kept what we had.

It's a shame it's such a battle isn't it?

robinb · Aug 28, 2016

It makes me wonder how Mylan sets the expiration date :rolleyes:

.

DVCcurious · Aug 28, 2016

Gracie09 said:
What makes me upset is much of the cost of r&d including salaries and other overhead is deductible as a dollar per dollar tax credit. So the govt (and us) are paying for the development of the drugs and then getting price gouged to pay for the development of new drugs that they can deduct the cost of on their taxes

If you don't know what you're talking about you should probably keep quiet.

As a CPA with 17 years experience I can assure the rest of you that this post above is 100% false.

DVCcurious · Aug 28, 2016

robinb said:
I just read that Pharma(W)itch's daddy is a US Senator. Nice.

A Democratic Senator.

And Mylan is a donor to the Clinton Foundation.

So let's not pretend anything is going to change.

robinb · Aug 28, 2016

DVCcurious said:
If you don't know what you're talking about you should probably keep quiet.

As a CPA with 17 years experience I can assure the rest of you that this post above is 100% false.

Enlighten us then instead of just telling someone else to shut up. Don't corporations deduct the cost of doing business from their revenue?

Since Mylan is incorporated in the Netherlands and pays THEM taxes, the point may be moot.

robinb · Aug 28, 2016

DVCcurious said:
A Democratic Senator.

And Mylan is a donor to the Clinton Foundation.

So let's not pretend anything is going to change.

That's some thin ice you're skating on now ...

Disney_traveler · Aug 28, 2016

OP, I noticed you said Canada was too far away, what about Mexico?

DVCcurious · Aug 28, 2016

robinb said:
Enlighten us then instead of just telling someone else to shut up. Don't corporations deduct the cost of doing business from their revenue?

Since Mylan is incorporated in the Netherlands and pays THEM taxes, the point may be moot.

That post said "dollar for dollar as a tax credit" which is not even close to what you wrote "deduct the cost of doing business from their revenue". If you owe $100 in taxes but have a $100 tax credit (as the person I responded to claimed) you would end up with 0 taxes due. If you owe $100 in taxes but have a $100 tax deduction (as you claim) then a corporation would owe about $65 in taxes. $65 is a helluva lot more than $0 once you adjust my example to real numbers (billions).

So the person I responded to was not even close.

I'm not even going to get into capitalization of R&D expenses and cash flow vs income statement.

Let's just say people spend 5 years in college, like a full year studying 20+ hrs per week for the CPA exam and then need years of experience to learn the proper tax laws.

So, yes, it bothers me when someone who has done jack squat claims to "know" corporate tax law.

DVCcurious · Aug 28, 2016

robinb said:
That's some thin ice you're skating on now ...

whatever man. I deal in reality. We've had a democratic President for 8 years while this drug cost has skyrocketed. Why should I pretend anything will be different with a new President from the same party? Especially when Mylan has donated handsomely to Clinton. They're not contributing because they're hoping she cracks down on them!

Remember 2008? Democrats were outraged over the Big Banks and the Big Health Insurers. So....what ended up happening to Aetna, Cigna and United Health, or Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and Citigroup?

I expect Mylan will get the same treatment in 2017 as Goldman Sachs got in 2009. You can call me cynical...I prefer "realistic".

Real people are hurting due to Mylan's decision. But as long as Mylan greases the correct palms everything will be swept under the rug. That's not a political comment, that's just a statement of fact.

robinb · Aug 28, 2016

DVCcurious said:
whatever man. I deal in reality. We've had a democratic President for 8 years while this drug cost has skyrocketed. Why should I pretend anything will be different with a new President from the same party? Especially when Mylan has donated handsomely to Clinton. They're not contributing because they're hoping she cracks down on them!

Remember 2008? Democrats were outraged over the Big Banks and the Big Health Insurers. So....what ended up happening to Aetna, Cigna and United Health, or Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and Citigroup?

I expect Mylan will get the same treatment in 2017 as Goldman Sachs got in 2009. You can call me cynical...I prefer "realistic".

Real people are hurting due to Mylan's decision. But as long as Mylan greases the correct palms everything will be swept under the rug. That's not a political comment, that's just a statement of fact.

No, this is not a fact, but a political comment that I cannot respond to lest I receive points. You are welcome to continue to post your political rants at your own risk.

This back to school supply is going to cut into my Disney budget...Epi Pen Increase

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