Towing a travel trailer

Clifton Tesh · Jul 28, 2016

So, I'm a bit confused here. I keep reading how towing a tongue hitched TT is exhausting and a lot of work but a 5th wheel isn't. I'm trying to understand how a tongue hitched TT is any different than a 5th wheel or goose neck.

I have done a lot of towing, but I've never towed a large, tongue hitched trailer. I've towed goose neck hitched 8-10 horse trailers, I've towed semi trucks with 53 foot trailers attached (using a wrecker), and I've towed 40 ft long 5th wheel hitched car haulers before (not a semi). The largest tongue hitched trailer I've ever towed was a 2 horse side by side.

I understand wind and sway, drag, and all that fun stuff, I've logged a lot of miles in large vehicles and combination vehicles.

Is there really that big of a difference in the amount of sway and drag you feel/receive on a tongue hitched TT compared to a 5th wheel? Or is it possible the people talking about how exhausting it is driving a tongue hitched TT are using an undersized tow rig?

Teamubr · Jul 28, 2016

I'm not sure how to describe it, but think of a TT as being a pivot on a 4 ft rod behind the axle. Put a 5 lb weight in your hand and move it around. It's not real hard to control. That's a 5er. Now put the 5 lb weight on one end of a stick. Hold the other end of the stick and wave the weight around. It's a lot harder to control. That's the effect a TT has on the rear axle of a truck. Weight distribution hitches and sway bars help, but it is still a different feel.

I've towed many different things from 6 ft utility trailers to a 33 ft TT and 5ers and goosenecks from 30-48 ft. 5ers and goosenecks just feel a little more stable.

Now backing up. Give me a TT any day. The pivot point on a 4 ft lever behind the axle makes it really easy to put the trailer exactly where I want.

j

Clifton Tesh · Jul 28, 2016

Teamubr said:
I'm not sure how to describe it, but think of a TT as being a pivot on a 4 ft rod behind the axle. Put a 5 lb weight in your hand and move it around. It's not real hard to control. That's a 5er. Now put the 5 lb weight on one end of a stick. Hold the other end of the stick and wave the weight around. It's a lot harder to control. That's the effect a TT has on the rear axle of a truck. Weight distribution hitches and sway bars help, but it is still a different feel.

I've towed many different things from 6 ft utility trailers to a 33 ft TT and 5ers and goosenecks from 30-48 ft. 5ers and goosenecks just feel a little more stable.

Now backing up. Give me a TT any day. The pivot point on a 4 ft lever behind the axle makes it really easy to put the trailer exactly where I want.

j

That makes since actually.

2goofycampers · Jul 29, 2016

It also has to do with your tow vehicle. We first had a 1500 Dodge when we towed. It was scary, even tho we were under the weight limit by far. It was like the tail wagging the dog. When we got the 2500 Dodge diesel the tail could no longer wag the dog. When a big rig goes by the extra weight really helps.

peg110 · Jul 29, 2016

I think a lot of it is also the ratio of weight being towed by the weight of the tow vehicle as well as the capabilities of the tow vehicle. I will say I had an F150 that we towed our 27' TT (GVWR about 7K pounds). The F150 was rated for up to just under 10K pounds. It towed it fine, but then we got an F250 and it towed it much better. I think there is less concern about what people put on their tail hitch and people are often times pushing the limits as opposed to when you have a 5er, I think when you get to that level, you are more aware of what you are towing with. (This is of course is just my opinion). Most people who get into camping/towing don't jump right to the 5ers (although I am sure some do) so at entry level they look for their TT and don't consider as much the TV.

I have never towed a 5er or goose neck, but I suspect a lot of it is how and where the weight sits as well as the pivot point location. (over the rear wheels as opposed to the bumper area.)

On a side note, I am truly amazed at some vehicles I see towing some of these trailers. I actually saw the other day, a Cadillac Escalade towing a trailer similar to mine. Mine (Coachmen Catalina 343 QBDS) has a GVWR of 9500#, Empty is 7030# (Hitch weight of 860#). So using this as a basis (since I don't know which model it actually was but it was in the same make and class.), they had to be starting, EMPTY, at about 7000#. The best towing capacity for a 2016 Cadillac Escalade found in a Trailer Life Towing Guide was 8300# That leaves just about 1300# for "Stuff" Given that water tanks are about 40 gallons, there is 320# right there, Food, Clothes, supplies, (blocks, sewer hoses, TVs, dishes, etc...) it won't take long to get to the max (best case). While a vehicle may be rated at towing at a level, I still think it's best to keep BELOW that level by at least 10% - 20%

Clifton Tesh · Jul 29, 2016

peg110 said:
I think a lot of it is also the ratio of weight being towed by the weight of the tow vehicle as well as the capabilities of the tow vehicle. I will say I had an F150 that we towed our 27' TT (GVWR about 7K pounds). The F150 was rated for up to just under 10K pounds. It towed it fine, but then we got an F250 and it towed it much better. I think there is less concern about what people put on their tail hitch and people are often times pushing the limits as opposed to when you have a 5er, I think when you get to that level, you are more aware of what you are towing with. (This is of course is just my opinion). Most people who get into camping/towing don't jump right to the 5ers (although I am sure some do) so at entry level they look for their TT and don't consider as much the TV.

I have never towed a 5er or goose neck, but I suspect a lot of it is how and where the weight sits as well as the pivot point location. (over the rear wheels as opposed to the bumper area.)

On a side note, I am truly amazed at some vehicles I see towing some of these trailers. I actually saw the other day, a Cadillac Escalade towing a trailer similar to mine. Mine (Coachmen Catalina 343 QBDS) has a GVWR of 9500#, Empty is 7030# (Hitch weight of 860#). So using this as a basis (since I don't know which model it actually was but it was in the same make and class.), they had to be starting, EMPTY, at about 7000#. The best towing capacity for a 2016 Cadillac Escalade found in a Trailer Life Towing Guide was 8300# That leaves just about 1300# for "Stuff" Given that water tanks are about 40 gallons, there is 320# right there, Food, Clothes, supplies, (blocks, sewer hoses, TVs, dishes, etc...) it won't take long to get to the max (best case). While a vehicle may be rated at towing at a level, I still think it's best to keep BELOW that level by at least 10% - 20%

My wrecker is rated at towing 150,000.

When I hook my wrecker up to a semi (that's usually at least 70,000 but can be upwards of 99,000) I still look at the truckers weight log because I want at least 10,000 less than my max tow. You've got to account for heat and brake fade, adverse conditions, possible bad weather, and what ever else might "decrease" the vehicles ability to actually tow it's max weight. The manufacturer isn't adding in all of these factors, they're just telling you it tested at being able to tow that weight. Kind of like saying a dinette can sleep two when we all know it barely fits 1.

I don't really have the weight issue with my new rig but my old one was only 100,000 max.

peg110 · Jul 29, 2016

@Clifton Tesh, that's my point.... I think the issues people have with TT versus 5er's is that they don't properly account for the weight when towing a TT, whereas when you get to the 5er stage, you are probably more aware. Thus the views that towing a 5er is easier because it's probably sized/proportioned better.

I always try to keep at or lower than 80% of rated. I am not always successful, but I try.

Clifton Tesh · Jul 29, 2016

peg110 said:
@Clifton Tesh, that's my point.... I think the issues people have with TT versus 5er's is that they don't properly account for the weight when towing a TT, whereas when you get to the 5er stage, you are probably more aware. Thus the views that towing a 5er is easier because it's probably sized/proportioned better.

I always try to keep at or lower than 80% of rated. I am not always successful, but I try.

Yeah, I was just emphasizing on what you said.

When I worked at a dealership I actually once had a guy honestly believe he could tow more than rated because his trailer had trailer brakes. He was asking us to install a 5th wheel into a Silverado 1500 and just would not listen us about the weight distribution.

It's scary what I've seen people attempt with towing. I guess it comes second nature to me though. I grew up on a huge farm and my dad drove semi's for a long time. Weight ratio was instilled in me.

Teamubr · Aug 3, 2016

Lots of good points. Especially weight over the rear axle as opposed to behind it.

There is something to be said with towing at well under the limit. My second camper was a 33 ft TT. Weighed about 5800 lbs empty. My V8 Explorer was rated at 7200 lbs. Totally loaded with water, generator on the back, fuel for generator and our stuff, the trailer weighed 7000 lbs. I had a nice WD hitch and 2 friction sway controls on it. I towed it all over without any drama. I bought my first truck. An F250 crew cab diesel. It had a tow rating around 13,000 lbs. When I towed the same trailer, I didn't need the WD hitch or the sway controls and it was more comfortable. Neither combo ever gave me worries, but the truck made it clear it wasn't being stressed, where the Explorer said, "I'm ok, but no more, please."

Now, I have a F350 dually and I used to tow a 48 ft, 2 car, enclosed gooseneck race car hauler. With both cars and our race stuff (tires, tools, spares, fuel), the trailer came in between 21-22,000 lbs. The truck maxes out at 22,600. Except for hills and going from a stop, my new 5er that weighs 13,300 feels pretty much the same towing.

I know it makes people feel better to say you should never exceed X% of your GCWR and it makes sense on paper, but my personal experience says, if you can't swing a more capable tv, run it up to the max as long as you are aware of what your weights really are and know how the combo responds.

j

Clifton Tesh · Aug 3, 2016

Teamubr said:
Neither combo ever gave me worries, but the truck made it clear it wasn't being stressed, where the Explorer said, "I'm ok, but no more, please."

Lol, when I went from a tandem axle wrecker to a triple axle wrecker the difference was amazing.

Fully loaded, in the tandem, I would struggle to get up highway entry/exit ramps. Switch over to the triple and I've honestly forgot I was towing a 70,000 pound rig behind me.

peg110 · Aug 4, 2016

Teamubr said:
I know it makes people feel better to say you should never exceed X% of your GCWR and it makes sense on paper, but my personal experience says, if you can't swing a more capable tv, run it up to the max as long as you are aware of what your weights really are and know how the combo responds.

I agree with this. I don't say DON'T tow to your max, I say you should avoid it if possible. It's just that you will get better (ideally easier) towing the further below the GCWR that you are. But then, why buy a vehicle capable of towing 12,000 pounds if your not able to tow 12,000 pounds. As you point out though, you just need to be aware about how that combo is going to handle the closer you get to your max.

Barney Fife · Aug 4, 2016

I'm going against the majority here. I've had 2 fifth wheels and 3 TTs. Presently a very happy fifth wheel owner.

But with today's WD hitches, I see no huge advantage of one over the other unless you go really, really long. A typical 33'-35' TT with a PROPERLY set-up WD hitch tows just as good as anything out there. Our last TT was 33' long with a tongue weight of 1500 lbs.. I had to rework the WD hitch because the dealership didn't have it set right. Once I increased the tension to make it sit correct, the stability and sway control was absolutely amazing. 70 mph was smooth and those fears of passing trucks were gone.

I think most people don't have their WD hitches set correctly to work like they should. They're afraid to put the proper tension on the bars or the dealership is in too much of a hurry to do it correctly.

With a properly set-up WD hitch, that weight on the tongue is evenly transferred throughout the truck.

Barney Fife · Aug 4, 2016

1500 lb. tongue weight. Even on the F350, it sagged with the dealer set-up. Once I reworked it, it sat perfectly and the sway control was amazing.

Clifton Tesh · Aug 4, 2016

Barney Fife said:
I'm going against the majority here. I've had 2 fifth wheels and 3 TTs. Presently a very happy fifth wheel owner.

But with today's WD hitches, I see no huge advantage of one over the other unless you go really, really long. A typical 33'-35' TT with a PROPERLY set-up WD hitch tows just as good as anything out there. Our last TT was 33' long with a tongue weight of 1500 lbs.. I had to rework the WD hitch because the dealership didn't have it set right. Once I increased the tension to make it sit correct, the stability and sway control was absolutely amazing. 70 mph was smooth and those fears of passing trucks were gone.

I think most people don't have their WD hitches set correctly to work like they should. They're afraid to put the proper tension on the bars or the dealership is in too much of a hurry to do it correctly.

With a properly set-up WD hitch, that weight on the tongue is evenly transferred throughout the truck.

Good old garner, nc. I use to deliver pizza out there. I was actually driving by the slim Jim plant when it exploded.

I was looking at WD and anti sway hitches the other night. Are the hensley and propride hitches really worth the money?

There's WD hitches out there for a 10th of the price.

This whole thread got started because the wife wants a mid size suv and I want a TT. Her SUV is more important than me getting a truck (needs the space to haul kids around) so I'm looking for things to tow with the suv. I was worried about getting a larger TT due to all the reviews I read about how tiring they are to tow. So I was originally looking at ultra lites and hybrids, but honestly, they're the same price as some of the roomier TTs I've looked at. So then I started looking at anti sway hitches...I'm sure y'all know how this story goes.

I tow a lot, but I also know that no trailer, vehicle, or what ever you're towing, tows the same as the last.

I just don't want to make my family sea sick or feel unsafe in the vehicle while towing.

peg110 · Aug 5, 2016

Well I can tell you that if you don't have the "Sway" controlled, then you definitely will have to "Work" at the towing. For me, I have no real issues after the first probably 20 miles. (as long as everything is set okay). It's no more tiring for me then regular driving with the exception that I need to be more aware of my (total) vehicle/combination size when changing lanes, merging or whatever. To me, it's more "mentally" tiring just because of this. I think very little about pulling into a gas station and filling up (well beyond price) but I have to think about it a bit more to ensure I can get in/out with the TT.

I will say, though, that I like towing with my F-250 better than I did with the F-150. I liked towing with the F-150 better then I did with the Suburban.

My suggestion is to go with what you want and are comfortable with. If necessary later on, you can "Upgrade". Others will tell you to get exactly what you want from the get go to save the hassle of upgrading. Really it's up to you and what you are comfortable with. There are pros and cons to each. Whatever you decide, I hope you have an awesome time with it.

Barney Fife · Aug 5, 2016

I remember that day well. I was working when the news came on about the plant explosion. They've since torn the building down and Con Agra gave the property to the town. Its still just an undeveloped field with overgrown brush. Supposedly one day, they want to build a park.

As for hitches, my last two were Equalizer 4-way Sway Control. An outstanding hitch and I would recommend highly. Especially with an SUV, just don't overload the truck.

Towing a travel trailer

Clifton Tesh

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Sounds like something a camping trip could cure!

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