5th gate on the horizon?

jade1 · Jan 27, 2016

Pretty sure a recession would stop some or all projects, maybe why they spread it out soo long in case one hits along the way.

NYDisneyKid · Jan 28, 2016

If a new theme park happens Hello major price increase.

derekleigh · Jan 28, 2016

I would love to know the two different attendance breakdowns over the course of the last 10 years:

1) Percentages
- Regulars (at least 1 visit per month)
- Semi-regulars (2 or more visits annually)
- Annuals (1 annual visit)
- Variable (1 visit every few years)
- One-Timers (1 visit ever)

2) Geographical breakdown of visitors (Americans, Brazilians, Canadians, etc)

Anybody know if this info or like info exists and made publically?

Eoghann · Jan 28, 2016

derekleigh said:
I would love to know the two different attendance breakdowns over the course of the last 10 years:

1) Percentages
- Regulars (at least 1 visit per month)
- Semi-regulars (2 or more visits annually)
- Annuals (1 annual visit)
- Variable (1 visit every few years)
- One-Timers (1 visit ever)

2) Geographical breakdown of visitors (Americans, Brazilians, Canadians, etc)

Anybody know if this info or like info exists and made publically?

I would be in heaven with that sort of information, but you'll never get it. Disney don't have to publish it so they won't.

DanBoris · Jan 28, 2016

NYDisneyKid said:
If a new theme park happens Hello major price increase.

If attendance continues to increase a new park will eventually be needed. If the attendance increases slow down or stop, then they will need to raise prices because the investors will never accept a lack of growth.

I M Fearless · Feb 10, 2016

I think the eventual reason for a 5th gate will likely be very different to the reasons for the previous parks.

In the past, the main reason for the addition of a park was to increase attendance.

I think the attendance is now increasing all the time in any case, so the 5th gate will eventually become necessary not to increase attendance but to add capacity to accommodate the increased attendance.

Basically, in the past the motto was "build it and they will come"

Now it's "they're coming, we need to build something"

lockedoutlogic · Feb 10, 2016

I M Fearless said:
I think the eventual reason for a 5th gate will likely be very different to the reasons for the previous parks.

In the past, the main reason for the addition of a park was to increase attendance.

I think the attendance is now increasing all the time in any case, so the 5th gate will eventually become necessary not to increase attendance but to add capacity to accommodate the increased attendance.

Basically, in the past the motto was "build it and they will come"

Now it's "they're coming, we need to build something"

The reason for the last three parks was to increase attendance by adding to the length of stays...people stay longer, people come everyday, more overlap, higher totals.

That hit the wall
At animal kingdom...or more accurately the glass ceiling.

OKW Lover · Feb 11, 2016

lockedoutlogic said:
Due to logistics and overhead...mainly the availability of labor...it's likely that there will never be a "fifth gate" in Orlando.

In one of the few occasions I agree with you on this. I might quibble a bit about the "never" part, but agree that this is highly unlikely. Building a 5th gate would require a lot of new infrastructure (roads, parking, groundwork, etc) just to support it. Attractions/lands can more easily be added to existing parks. Look at how much room remains around AK, DHS and even Epcot's World Showcase. For that matter, there's room around the MK for expansion too.

adam.adbe · Feb 12, 2016

OKW Lover said:
and even Epcot's World Showcase

World Showcase nothing, they've got plenty of room in Future World; they just need to put something in some of those empty buildings.

newlife · Feb 12, 2016

long time dis member but havent posted in a very long time

i consider myself a Disney veteran. i try and get to WDW at least 2-3x a year and travel with family, friends and solo. this gives me a chance to observe the entire wdw world in detail.

as far as the 5th gate goes, i truly would love to see it happen but i honestly dont think it is necessary. what truly angers me is when i walk into areas in each park that are totally under utilized or filled with filler thats only purpose is to get me to buy the same old stuff that on sale in multiple places in the park. my anger is at its highest when i go to epcot. i see on one side of me oddesy and on the other side the wonders of life area. truly sad for a die hard fan. i could and so could every poster here list areas in each park, that are just wasted space. if we put all that space together i think it would amount to a new park.

as far as a 5th gate and staffing i think of this. this country for many many years has been dealing with the "walmartization" of wages. they pay minimum wages, offer benefits that are relatively useless and have a mega turnover rate. to get people to work for you and to keep those people you need to pay wages and offer benefits that are reasonable. there are people out there, quality people who want to work. i have been in retail management for over 40 years so i know what i am talking about. minimum wage does not work in this economy, it works for the businesses profit-wise. when i have this discussion with people all i say is try and live on minimum wage

Eoghann · Feb 12, 2016

newlife said:
as far as a 5th gate and staffing i think of this. this country for many many years has been dealing with the "walmartization" of wages. they pay minimum wages, offer benefits that are relatively useless and have a mega turnover rate. to get people to work for you and to keep those people you need to pay wages and offer benefits that are reasonable. there are people out there, quality people who want to work. i have been in retail management for over 40 years so i know what i am talking about. minimum wage does not work in this economy, it works for the businesses profit-wise. when i have this discussion with people all i say is try and live on minimum wage

I agree that minimum wage is too low and not remotely a living wage. I just don't see companies going above it unless they are forced to. These businesses are all about profit.

DanBoris · Feb 12, 2016

lockedoutlogic said:
The reason for the last three parks was to increase attendance by adding to the length of stays...people stay longer, people come everyday, more overlap, higher totals.

That hit the wall
At animal kingdom...or more accurately the glass ceiling.

But attendance is increasing and the parks (mainly MK) are getting more crowded. Something has to change to accommodate those people, so the question is when do the parks reach their breaking point. Let's focus on MK, because that is the most attended park and the one that will "break" first. Yes, there is room for expansion, but are there parts of the park where it becomes impractical to accommodate more people? For example the main entrance, bus depot, main street, parade and fireworks viewing, etc. I don't actually have an answer to this so I am opening up for discussion.

newdeal · Feb 12, 2016

I think that at this point the magic kingdom is as big as it could be since its easily a three day park. If there was a way to split it into two parks I could see them doing it but unfortunately there isn't

Eoghann · Feb 12, 2016

DanBoris said:
But attendance is increasing and the parks (mainly MK) are getting more crowded. Something has to change to accommodate those people, so the question is when do the parks reach their breaking point. Let's focus on MK, because that is the most attended park and the one that will "break" first. Yes, there is room for expansion, but are there parts of the park where it becomes impractical to accommodate more people? For example the main entrance, bus depot, main street, parade and fireworks viewing, etc. I don't actually have an answer to this so I am opening up for discussion.

There are multiple potential solutions to that.

Make the other parks more appealing to spread the visitors more evenly
expand the area for fireworks viewing (they essentially just did that)
Add a second entrance (they sort of have one and have improved the additional exit route)

With these sorts of changes I think we could be a long way off hitting any real maximum on the MK. I mean, how often do they feel the need to "close" the park, 4 times a year?

OKW Lover · Feb 12, 2016

newlife said:
as far as a 5th gate and staffing i think of this. this country for many many years has been dealing with the "walmartization" of wages. they pay minimum wages, offer benefits that are relatively useless and have a mega turnover rate. to get people to work for you and to keep those people you need to pay wages and offer benefits that are reasonable. there are people out there, quality people who want to work. i have been in retail management for over 40 years so i know what i am talking about. minimum wage does not work in this economy, it works for the businesses profit-wise. when i have this discussion with people all i say is try and live on minimum wage

Nonetheless, Disney CM's who choose to are represented by a union. Wages for essentially all CM's are set through those union/management negotiations. Members then ratify the agreement. So, they've decided that they are being paid fairly for the work they are doing.

hedberg1661 · Feb 13, 2016

Personally I think you are one more universal theme park away from a 5th gate at WDW. They need to get the DHS refurb done and address EC before they address a 5th gate by which time Universal should be ready for another gate. Let's say within 10 years? Thoughts?

rteetz · Feb 13, 2016

hedberg1661 said:
Personally I think you are one more universal theme park away from a 5th gate at WDW. They need to get the DHS refurb done and address EC before they address a 5th gate by which time Universal should be ready for another gate. Let's say within 10 years? Thoughts?

I don't think so. Yes DHS needs to be fixed but then look at Epcot. Epcot needs a lot of work next. Universal is ready for a third gate but I don't think Disney is ready for a fifth. Maybe 20 years down the line but 10 is too soon.

OKW Lover · Feb 13, 2016

rteetz said:
Universal is ready for a third gate

Part of Universal's problem is that they don't have room for expansion within their existing two parks, hence the need for a 3rd gate. Disney doesn't have that problem.

Eoghann · Feb 13, 2016

hedberg1661 said:
Personally I think you are one more universal theme park away from a 5th gate at WDW. They need to get the DHS refurb done and address EC before they address a 5th gate by which time Universal should be ready for another gate. Let's say within 10 years? Thoughts?

Well if you figure it's probably 3-4 years before DHS is done and EPCOT stuff hasn't even been announced yet... I don't see any way you get to a 5th gate in 10 years even assuming Disney wanted to do one (which I still strongly doubt).

Besides after Epcot it's probably time for some updates to MK and AK again, both of which do have plenty room for expansion still.

I get why fans want a 5th gate but all I'm seeing is people trying to cobble together a justification for it, rather than there being an actual compelling reason. The difference between that and Universal where the business case is crystal clear is pretty stark I think.

lockedoutlogic · Feb 13, 2016

newlife said:
long time dis member but havent posted in a very long time

i consider myself a Disney veteran. i try and get to WDW at least 2-3x a year and travel with family, friends and solo. this gives me a chance to observe the entire wdw world in detail.

as far as the 5th gate goes, i truly would love to see it happen but i honestly dont think it is necessary. what truly angers me is when i walk into areas in each park that are totally under utilized or filled with filler thats only purpose is to get me to buy the same old stuff that on sale in multiple places in the park. my anger is at its highest when i go to epcot. i see on one side of me oddesy and on the other side the wonders of life area. truly sad for a die hard fan. i could and so could every poster here list areas in each park, that are just wasted space. if we put all that space together i think it would amount to a new park.

as far as a 5th gate and staffing i think of this. this country for many many years has been dealing with the "walmartization" of wages. they pay minimum wages, offer benefits that are relatively useless and have a mega turnover rate. to get people to work for you and to keep those people you need to pay wages and offer benefits that are reasonable. there are people out there, quality people who want to work. i have been in retail management for over 40 years so i know what i am talking about. minimum wage does not work in this economy, it works for the businesses profit-wise. when i have this discussion with people all i say is try and live on minimum wage

Fantastic and you are describing the largest private single site employer in the United States.

...and many people around here can't process that and still get all giddy for vacation...truth has a "hard" edge to it.

5th gate on the horizon?

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

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