"Other Rumored Lands" @ DHS

Are comic book characters, or a family of related comic book super-characters really all that important for either movie or theme park business? I've read probably about 3 superhero comic books in my life, all before I was 10 years old, and I've only ever run into a single acquaintance who admitted to buying and reading the things as an adult. Batman, Superman and Spider-Man are known far more from the old TV series than from the number of people who've ever read (let alone collect) the comic books. What percentage of the public who bought tickets for X-Men or Avenger movies ever heard of them beforehand?

The Incredibles showed that you can go ahead and create superheroes out of nothing at all. Like Frozone said ... "You tell me you're a Super- Lightning- Ultra- Babe? That's alright with me. I'm good." It's the verve and skill of the film production team that matter (from writer to sound FX team) ... not the "property".

So the Marvel "properties" don't mean very much as cultural anchors. The stories are rewritten every few years and the writers, directors and actors are totally different so it's not like there's anything holding the characters together other than just a costume and super-abilities. And the costumes and abilities change over time anyways according to movie-making fashions and technology.

Franchises like Harry Potter and Star Wars are more meaningful and deserving of theme park lands because as stories, they strongly reflect the ideas of their original creators/authors and film teams. There is strong continuity of stories, actors and filmmakers.

That's why I couldn't give a darn if Marvel or any particular Marvel characters ever come to Disney parks, or if they leave Universal, or if they simply disappear. Give me some Super- Lightning- Ultra- rides and theming and I'm good.

The reality is that both DC and marvel have been featured heavily in themeparks for quite an established history now...25 and 15 years respectively.

They certainly add something...it's better than no tie ins or cross sells.

But to say that they are major components at this point is a huge stretch.

This always comes back to the same concept "marvel would be SOOOOOO big in Disney parks"

Maybe? Or maybe it would be exactly the same as it is up the road?

Maybe another another half billion in theming and tech would make it the biggest thing ever?

Or perhaps - like princesses - it would convert NO ONE if they already weren't predisposed to the concept?

I just don't think you have the same impact potential here...not like certain other properties or demographics.

I don't see what difference it makes whether the superheroes are the movie versions or the comic book versions. I've seen people flock to Universal's comic book characters because I suspect to most people Wolverine is just simply Wolverine no matter how he's dressed. Spiderman is the pretty much the same in either case.

I think that Universal and Disney are both pretty satisfied with how things are. Disney might prefer to be able to use the Marvel characters in WDW but I suspect that they'll do just fine without them.

Planogirl said:

Wow, the trolls are busy lately.

Click to expand...

"Trolls" ... as in, you think that the people who have different opinions from you are not just wrong, but they're being dishonest and deliberately disruptive?

That's kind of harsh.

Josh Hendy said:

"Trolls" ... as in, you think that the people who have different opinions from you are not just wrong, but they're being dishonest and deliberately disruptive?

That's kind of harsh.

Click to expand...

I didn't mention who I thought was trolling nor did I bring up the term. But yes, it might be a bit too harsh. Point taken and edited.

Josh Hendy said:

Are comic book characters, or a family of related comic book super-characters really all that important for either movie or theme park business? I've read probably about 3 superhero comic books in my life, all before I was 10 years old, and I've only ever run into a single acquaintance who admitted to buying and reading the things as an adult. Batman, Superman and Spider-Man are known far more from the old TV series than from the number of people who've ever read (let alone collect) the comic books. What percentage of the public who bought tickets for X-Men or Avenger movies ever heard of them beforehand?

The Incredibles showed that you can go ahead and create superheroes out of nothing at all. Like Frozone said ... "You tell me you're a Super- Lightning- Ultra- Babe? That's alright with me. I'm good." It's the verve and skill of the film production team that matter (from writer to sound FX team) ... not the "property".

So the Marvel "properties" don't mean very much as cultural anchors. The stories are rewritten every few years and the writers, directors and actors are totally different so it's not like there's anything holding the characters together other than just a costume and super-abilities. And the costumes and abilities change over time anyways according to movie-making fashions and technology.

Franchises like Harry Potter and Star Wars are more meaningful and deserving of theme park lands because as stories, they strongly reflect the ideas of their original creators/authors and film teams. There is strong continuity of stories, actors and filmmakers.

That's why I couldn't give a darn if Marvel or any particular Marvel characters ever come to Disney parks, or if they leave Universal, or if they simply disappear. Give me some Super- Lightning- Ultra- rides and theming and I'm good.

Click to expand...

I agree with these comments 100%!

Josh Hendy said:

Are comic book characters, or a family of related comic book super-characters really all that important for either movie or theme park business? I've read probably about 3 superhero comic books in my life, all before I was 10 years old, and I've only ever run into a single acquaintance who admitted to buying and reading the things as an adult. Batman, Superman and Spider-Man are known far more from the old TV series than from the number of people who've ever read (let alone collect) the comic books. What percentage of the public who bought tickets for X-Men or Avenger movies ever heard of them beforehand?

Click to expand...

I do happen to know a couple guys like this. They are under 30 though. Unmarried but otherwise adult in that they have real jobs, apartments and such. They also tend to fit in a few other groups like "redditor" and "gamer" so you can kinda see where this is going. But you are right in that they are the exception rather than the rule. A majority of the target audience (young men 18-24) are going to know about it in advance that that kinda drives the enthusiasm a bit. I'm interested to see how Deadpool shakes out as it was kinda resurrected from the dead, so to speak, and has had tons of hype on places like reddit. It's not one you can take the kiddos to see, so will it do well? I'm sure Fox would like to get another piece of the pie besides X-Men.

Planogirl said:

I don't see what difference it makes whether the superheroes are the movie versions or the comic book versions. I've seen people flock to Universal's comic book characters because I suspect to most people Wolverine is just simply Wolverine no matter how he's dressed. Spiderman is the pretty much the same in either case.

I think that Universal and Disney are both pretty satisfied with how things are. Disney might prefer to be able to use the Marvel characters in WDW but I suspect that they'll do just fine without them.

Click to expand...

I don't think the version matters but I think it would be a mistake for anyone to dismiss characters like Superman, Spider-man etc. Society in general knows those characters so they have a cross-generation, cross-gender appeal. Beyond that while the number of comic books sold is tiny, the merchandise was quite substantial long before the movies became popular. There's an audience for this stuff.

Eoghann said:

I don't think the version matters but I think it would be a mistake for anyone to dismiss characters like Superman, Spider-man etc. Society in general knows those characters so they have a cross-generation, cross-gender appeal. Beyond that while the number of comic books sold is tiny, the merchandise was quite substantial long before the movies became popular. There's an audience for this stuff.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%. Recognition is a big factor particularly when it comes to kids. Plus there's just something exciting about the superhero characters.

DanBoris said:

They won't?

View attachment 150481

Click to expand...

his guy has price tag of about $3000 at the bottom that not shown is you picture here, but the price make him "merchandise" which Universal has the right to sell in their parks, so basically this is a picture of a giant action figure in a gift shop... not a theme park attraction

gotta read that fine print dude

rteetz said:

Just because he was put in charge doesn't mean they are going to get the Orlando rights. They can still go world wide without Orlando.

Also if they wanted to go world wide so urgently it would've been done already. Rohde was put in charge last year.

Click to expand...

Rohde was put in charge of Avatar land 5 years ago... anyway

I didn't realize this wasn't common knowledge to everybody... but since people on your borads seem to live in some kind of alternate reality here's the "Facts" for you

First off, Disney now owns the film rights to Spiderman now but they a leasing those rights to Sony who will be producing the stand alone Spiderman films, and those films will take place within the "Marvel Cinematic Universe" story continuity, which is overseen by Marvel Studios Chief Kevin Feige.

Fox released the film rights to Daredevil back to Disney/Marvel (without any ill will apparently), but Fox held on to the film rights for the X-men and the Fantastic 4 and their plan "was" to consolidate the X-men and Fantastic 4 films into a single story continuity. It was assumed that these Fox films would then eventually be melded into the Disney "Marvel Cinematic Universe" like Sony's newest Spiderman, because the next Phase of MCU films starting with "Captain America Civil War" is based on a comic book story also called "Civil War" that played out across several Marvel titles and involves the all the Marvel characters, in particular, The Avengers, Spiderman, X-Men and The Fantastic 4, but because that last Fantastic 4 film crashed and burned at the box office parts of that plan seems to be in limbo at the moment.

But Kevin Feige was a producer on nearly all the early Marvel films starting with the first X-Men in 2000, as well as the first 2 Fantastic 4 films with Chris Evans as the Human Torch (who now plays Captain America), Universal's 2 solo Hulk movies, and Sony's original Spiderman films with Toby Maguire.

In 2008 when Marvel's Film Studios officially launched with the first Iron Man, Feige was put in charge and began producing only the Marvel Studios MCU films, with one exception. The 2nd Universal Hulk movie "The Incredible Hulk" starring Ed Norton was set within the MCU, it was the only MCU film produced outside Marvel Studios, film but like the first Hulk movie with Eric Bana it underperformed at the box office and Universal gave up the film rights to the Hulk ...which most people would see as a sign that Universal maybe isn't all that interested in the Marvel...

but because the first few Marvel MCU films were so successful, that's the reason why Disney bought Marvel for $4 Billion, doubled the yearly output of Marvel Films, launched the Marvel TV shows and video games, added small Marvel attractions to their cruise ships and Disneyland park, and has been spending roughly $1 Billion a year on Marvel films and TV shows since then. And in case you all haven't noticed, lately Disney only seems build theme park attractions based on successful movies... Winnie the Pooh makes successful movies so he gets rides in Disney parks, Nemo has a hit film with a sequel in works, and so do Anna and Elsa, Avatar, Toy Story, Star Wars... and there have been over 30 movies based on Marvel characters in the past 15 years... so do you really think Disney is not going to put "their" Marvel Characters everywhere too?

So since 2008, under the leadership of Kevin Feige, the Marvel films within the MCU have done very well, but the ones outside the MCU have not done so well, and that's why in 2015 Feige was promoted by Disney, to oversee that "all" the Marvel films do well and eventually get folded into the MCU story continuity which has been Marvel's goal since day one, because that is how their comic book stories are told and their MCU films are based directly on the stories in the comics, and like Avatar, Toy Story, and Star Wars, the content of the films will eventually be the basis of and themed lands in Disney's parks.

Universal's Marvel theme park rights in Orlando is the only thing that stands in the way of this plan, except I think the guys at Universal are smart enough to not stand in the way because will only end up becoming pariahs if they do. Plus their current Marvel attractions are in the same kind of legal situation as Disney's Roger Rabbit's cartoon spin in Anaheim and Tokyo. Disney built that ride while they had the rights to do so, and they still have the right to own, operate, and maintain it forever if they choose but they can't expand upon it without OK of the people who own the rights to the Roger Rabbit characters, and Disney are the people who now own the Marvel characters, and the cinematic versions of those characters are what the general public knows and will want to see in a theme park setting.

So it's inevitable that Universal is going to just sell off the Marvel stuff and replace it with some film property they own out right and can profit from completely, like Jurassic World or this new World of Warcraft film, because right now they are selling Disney's merchandise instead of their own, and they can't clone their Marvel attractions at all their parks around the world like they are starting to do with Harry Potter, or like they could do some other IP they own out right.

These are the facts though, and these are the current trends and the business model that Walt Disney himself developed of MOVIE CHARACTERS + THEME PARK RIDES + MERCHENDISE You might not like the facts... you can try and argue that for some reason they may stray for Uncle Walt's formula for success if you like... but I personally don't see that happening, and don't believe that with the kind of money Disney has been pouring into to Marvel they would stop short of acquiring the rights to their flagship park in Orlando

This is just conjecture. It might happen but we have no real facts when it comes to the future.

Who would see Universal as pariahs? Disney? Why would Universal care?

TT77 said:

Rohde was put in charge of Avatar land 5 years ago... anyway

Click to expand...

Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with this. Avatar opens next year and is a property Disney doesn't own.

TT77 said:

So since 2008, under the leadership of Kevin Feige, the Marvel films within the MCU have done very well, but the ones outside the MCU have not done so well, and that's why in 2015 Feige was promoted by Disney,

Click to expand...

Yes, I like Kevin Feige and what he has done with marvel.

TT77 said:

Universal's Marvel theme park rights in Orlando is the only thing that stands in the way of this plan, except I think the guys at Universal are smart enough to not stand in the way because will only end up becoming pariahs if they do. Plus their current Marvel attractions are in the same kind of legal situation as Disney's Roger Rabbit's cartoon spin in Anaheim and Tokyo. Disney built that ride while they had the rights to do so, and they still have the right to own, operate, and maintain it forever if they choose but they can't expand upon it without OK of the people who own the rights to the Roger Rabbit characters, and Disney are the people who now own the Marvel characters, and the cinematic versions of those characters are what the general public knows and will want to see in a theme park setting.

Click to expand...

You think the universal guys are smart enough to get rid of it, but this is where I think they are smart enough not to let go right now. Right now it seems in universals and Disneys best interest to keep things where they are at. Universal is even being said to be building a new marvel attraction in the coming years.

TT77 said:

These are the facts though, and these are the current trends and the business model that Walt Disney himself developed of MOVIE CHARACTERS + THEME PARK RIDES + MERCHENDISE You might not like the facts... you can try and argue that for some reason they may stray for Uncle Walt's formula for success if you like... but I personally don't see that happening, and don't believe that with the kind of money Disney has been pouring into to Marvel they would stop short of acquiring the rights to their flagship park in Orlando

Click to expand...

You gave me movie facts which are all correct and things I agree with but there are no facts saying universal is going to give up the rights to theme park rights in Orlando for marvel. I believe I read a year ago that Feige came out and said he doesn't care what happens in the theme parks with marvel he is focused on creating great movies which he has done.

Josh Hendy said:

Are comic book characters, or a family of related comic book super-characters really all that important for either movie or theme park business? I've read probably about 3 superhero comic books in my life, all before I was 10 years old, and I've only ever run into a single acquaintance who admitted to buying and reading the things as an adult. Batman, Superman and Spider-Man are known far more from the old TV series than from the number of people who've ever read (let alone collect) the comic books. What percentage of the public who bought tickets for X-Men or Avenger movies ever heard of them beforehand?

The Incredibles showed that you can go ahead and create superheroes out of nothing at all. Like Frozone said ... "You tell me you're a Super- Lightning- Ultra- Babe? That's alright with me. I'm good." It's the verve and skill of the film production team that matter (from writer to sound FX team) ... not the "property".

So the Marvel "properties" don't mean very much as cultural anchors. The stories are rewritten every few years and the writers, directors and actors are totally different so it's not like there's anything holding the characters together other than just a costume and super-abilities. And the costumes and abilities change over time anyways according to movie-making fashions and technology.

Franchises like Harry Potter and Star Wars are more meaningful and deserving of theme park lands because as stories, they strongly reflect the ideas of their original creators/authors and film teams. There is strong continuity of stories, actors and filmmakers.

That's why I couldn't give a darn if Marvel or any particular Marvel characters ever come to Disney parks, or if they leave Universal, or if they simply disappear. Give me some Super- Lightning- Ultra- rides and theming and I'm good.

Click to expand...

You can't relate comic book characters like Spiderman to Harry Potter or Star Wars. Most comic book characters have been around far longer. Their story lines may have changed throughout the years, but the character have not. My father grew up with one version of Spiderman, and I grew up with another. In the end, we both loved a character who didn't change much, even when their storyline did.
Harry Potter is still too young of a storyline to say this won't happen. Star Wars on the other hand, has continuously changed plot lines just as much as any comic book, and stayed within the same 'universe'. Luke passionately kissing Leia only to find out she's his sister, Luke is hidden from his father yet kept his surname while growing up... countless times one movie explains one thing, only to be disregarded in the next.
Just because your group of friends didn't read comic books, doesn't mean millions of others didn't. There's a reason the movies, TV show AND comic books are still popular. I'm sorry you weren't a nerd.

Planogirl said:

This is just conjecture. It might happen but we have no real facts when it comes to the future.

Who would see Universal as pariahs? Disney? Why would Universal care?

Click to expand...

it's not conjecture, it's economics, you can stay in business selling you competition's product for them. If Burger King decided they wanted to start selling Mc Donald's Big Mac sandwich, and they had to by the ingredients from McDonald's so it tastes the same, and they had to share the profits with McDonald's... they wouldn'tmake near as much money as the would selling their own Whopper sandwich. Universal can't build rides based on Disney's Marvel movie characters with out paying Disney

And you how know people are all up in arms that no Carsland coming to Florida? Well is Disney starts building super cool Marvel attractions at all their parks around the world but can't build them in Florida because the guys at Universal won't give up the rights than they be pariahs in the eyes of the Disney fans

The Disney-owned Marvel movie brand was conspicuously absent from plans to rehabilitate Hollywood Studios. Although Disney bought Marvel in 2009 for $4 billion, the Florida theme park rights to Marvel characters like Spider-Man, the Hulk and Captain America continue to be held by Universal under a long-term contract.

Asked in an interview in July if Universal would ever sell those rights, Thomas L. Williams, Universal’s theme park chairman, answered with one word: “No.”

Is this not enough? Is Hulk being torn apart and then rebuilt piece by piece not enough? Is the fact Disney has been aggressively pursuing other franchises not enough?

They are building a new Marvel Hulk Ride. This is madness. Why would Universal destroy a Hulk themed rollercoaster only to rebuild it, and then sell the rights? Wouldn't they, I don't know, sell the rights and then rebuild a new land?

This is a time when Universal needs more IPs not less. They're going to have to cram 3 parks full of cutting edge IP. Weakening Islands of Adventure would be insane! IoA needs to be as strong as possible.

TT77 said:

And you how know people are all up in arms that no Carsland coming to Florida

Click to expand...

They are?

rteetz said:

They are?

Click to expand...

Well there's the Penguin Person...

DDLand said:

Well there's the Penguin Person...

Click to expand...

Let's not get that started here.

rteetz said:

They are?

Click to expand...

uhh yeah dude ...if you keep ignoring the facts you'll have a hard time understanding how these very complex business deals work

DDLand said:

The Disney-owned Marvel movie brand was conspicuously absent from plans to rehabilitate Hollywood Studios.

Click to expand...

They still haven't give the new name of the Hollywood Studio Park yet either, or what will become of the Star Wars Launch Bay in Animation Courtyard after the new Star Wars land opens... which means the aren't done announcing things yet

DDLand said:

Asked in an interview in July if Universal would ever sell those rights, Thomas L. Williams, Universal’s theme park chairman, answered with one word: “No.”

Click to expand...

If there is a Non-Disclosure agreement between Universal and Disney on this, and there most certainly would be, this middle management park chairman would lie to the press instead of getting sued by Disney

DDLand said:

Hulk being torn apart and then rebuilt piece by piece...

They are building a new Marvel Hulk Ride. This is madness. Why would Universal destroy a Hulk themed rollercoaster only to rebuild it, and then sell the rights?

Click to expand...

If you own a house, and you are thinking about selling your house, it would be a good idea to maybe fix up the house before you sell it to get the most money you can for it. That's was Disney did with Maelstrom, they referbed the exterior water fall right before they went to renegotiate the inside with the Norwegian Sponsors. If Universal sells the Marvel rights, Disney will be paying for their new coaster, and Universal can keep the coaster, they would just have to get rid of the signs that say "Hulk"

I actually have better thing to do with my time than explain this stuff to strangers on the internet