Parents, Please Control your Children

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starjazz said:
Of course its not. My point is that a child may presume that it is acceptable to join the performer, because they've learned from experience that joining a piano player is indeed acceptable if not applauded. If the performer does not appear to mind, which seems to be the case in the OP's story, the child (and parent as well) may not view it as a problem. Certainly not the problem that the OP and other thought it was. I certainly would not deem the child an obnoxious, undisciplined brat based on that experience alone, but again, that's just my take.
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The child may not have known better, but the parent should have known that unless invited to participate, the child should have stayed a part of the audience. Apparently we have very different standards as to what constitutes acceptable behavior in public.
 
How can you not judge when it comes to something like parenting? I don't say that in a bad way at all it's just you are actually responsible for another human being and as we all come from different walks of life how we parent is going to be different. Most people here are just chiming in with their own personal experiences or what they would have done and I don't really see out of line remarks necessarily.

Growing up my parents would not let things like the OP said occurred fly. If I acted out in a place we would leave or some reward would be taken away: i.e. "Well since you couldn't behave we are not going to the movie then later".

That being said WDW is quite a different place than the grocery store but still my parents would have made me step back from the piano player and watch where I wouldn't be disruptive, unless there is a sign that says audience participation welcomed you can assume that going right up to the piano player much less actually playing on the piano would be disruptive. They wouldn't do this in a mean way but kids being kids means still respecting the place around you. They would have said something like "honey lets go watch him play from here we don't want to interrupt him" and if I pushed back too much well then we would have left watching the piano player and I would have missed out on that experience.

Every generation changes and shifts their parenting attitudes it just happens. However, I will say that I've noticed more and more passive rather than active parenting. Of course I see wonderful parenting around me but then I see the ones who could care less what their children were doing.

In regards to theme parks I have seen more and more where the parents basically ignore the children and let them do their own thing: sitting on or pushing down on chains or ropes for lines, running around without close supervision or interaction, bumping into people more as the parents aren't near the child, screaming without parents trying to do something that will calm their child, allowing tantrums to go without intervention,etc. This is def.not to say all parents of today are like this at all I'm just seeing more and more of this.

When I was growing up my parents would play games with me while standing in line at theme parks, if we went to restaurants they would bring Brain Quest and I would be quizzed with them and when I was young enough I would walk either with my hand in theirs or right by their side so they could keep track of me. Nowadays it's usually an electronic device like a cell phone or tablet in the child's hands as well as the parent's.

Being with a child in a place like WDW can be very difficult..heck even the adults have meltdowns lol but it's still a place where common courtesy/knowledge reigns aside from different parenting styles there are still basics and we do all know some people have that and excel at it and other well others haven't quite figured it out yet.
 
HopperFan said:
:worship: On point.

The key is ... had the parents been "parenting" since day one with expectations of appropriate behavior this entire incident probably would have never happened at all. And if it was some crazy, the planets are out of alignment, the devil made me do it moment ...... if the parents had been "parenting" it probably would have only taken a look or a tug of the arm to remove them from the situation and getting back on track.

I'm not sure why the prospect of a meltdown (hence impacting the parents day) was more important than the disruption (hence impacting the entertainer and all the other guests day).
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I would like to add also that the kids in question looked to be approximately 7 and 10 respectively........too old for meltdowns in any case. If, upon removal, the kids did have a meltdown then there are bigger problems than a simple lapse in behavior.

ETA: I reread the OP and apparently the boys both appeared to be about 6 to 7 years old. I must have gotten this thread mixed up with another that did involve a 10 year old. Still, too old for a meltdown when being told not to do something.
 
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mshanson3121 said:
No one is saying that is their discipline. It was how they chose to remove their children from the situation, which was effective and did not disturb the other people. What would you prefer, they haul off and spank the kid, or stick them in a time out right there? Pick them up and carry them off, potentially sparking a meltdown which would be FAR more disruptive? Also, discipline, typically is something that happens AFTER a child has been removed from a situation, not while they're right in the middle of it. So, everyone is just ASSUMING there was no discipline, because they didn't haul off and rant and rave at them in the middle of the situation. THAT is what is mind boggling to me - how many people think that causing a public scene would be called better parenting. And how many people love to judge others, based on assumptions.
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I've found that people are far more willing to tolerate a child when they're being disciplined versus allowing the poor behavior to continue in order to avoid a meltdown.

I'd much rather deal with a kid shrieking his head off while being removed from the area because THAT'S just a kid being a kid. Not banging on a piano while someone's performing.
 


On the "kids being kids" angle - my neighbor has 2 boys that are. . . . A handful. . . And have been since day one. The challenges of their behaviors have only grown along with their bodies.

She occasionally has asked a small group of moms about their behaviors and asked "isn't that just boys being boys?" And despite many efforts we couldn't seem to find a way to respond and be fully understood. Finally, someone pointed out that YES "boys will be boys"; they are not sociaopaths because they TRIED such-and-such bad or foolish behavior. BUT "parents must be parents" and teach them which of their behaviors are unacceptable (sometimes or all the time). The TRYING to get away with something is normal. The lack of teaching in response to the trials is where they're running into problems.
 
Magpie said:
That's not so difficult. If a woman has her first at 20, she's only 40 when she has her last. And if she's younger than 20 when she has her first, it's even easier to have two with 20 years between them. Or more, if the one she had at 40 wasn't actually her last. :)
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mshanson3121 said:
And on the topic of spacing, my brother is 18 years younger than me :) Oh, and come to think of it, on the topic of judging... he was born just a month shy of my high school graduation, so on prom night, I was holding my little baby brother. You should have seen the amount of dirty looks I got... ;)
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wdw4rfam said:
Exactly, there's 15 years between my oldest and youngest and I was thinking the same. I was 21 with oldest and almost 37 with last.
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mshanson3121 said:
An amazing thread. We have people judging the parents, people judging the children, people calling children names, a debate about spanking, a discussion on proper restaurant etiquette, we have managed to drag the whole JTA Darth Vader attack back up again, and now a conversation starting on how far apart a woman's children are spaced out... What the heck is next?
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DisDadDVC said:
You could care less? (See, now it has turned into a grammar thread too!)
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22515119.jpg
 


starjazz said:
To be honest, I'm totally with you. I basically hate kids if we're being frank. (okay, not really, lol) I was merely responding to the OP and that specific situation. I think there needs to be a bit of leniency when at a place like WDW. I allow mine to be a little more silly, a little more rambunctious, a little louder, etc., than I normally would, cuz its Disney - its for them. So, my whole thing involves setting your expectations. At Disney, if a kid is climbing around in a restaurant, I'm gonna let it pass. If I'm at a quiet pool at a resort in Mexico, and kids are being loud, I'm likely to be far less tolerant of it.
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Restaurants are not meant for playing but pools are so why would loud kids at a pool bother you more than a kid misbehaving in a restaurant? Either place I expect kids and adults to be respectful of others and behave.
 
starjazz said:
To be honest, I'm totally with you. I basically hate kids if we're being frank. (okay, not really, lol) I was merely responding to the OP and that specific situation. I think there needs to be a bit of leniency when at a place like WDW. I allow mine to be a little more silly, a little more rambunctious, a little louder, etc., than I normally would, cuz its Disney - its for them. So, my whole thing involves setting your expectations. At Disney, if a kid is climbing around in a restaurant, I'm gonna let it pass. If I'm at a quiet pool at a resort in Mexico, and kids are being loud, I'm likely to be far less tolerant of it.
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piccolopat said:
Restaurants are not meant for playing but pools are so why would loud kids at a pool bother you more than a kid misbehaving in a restaurant? Either place I expect kids and adults to be respectful of others and behave.
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Most resorts have at least two pools - a main pool with games and activities for the kids, and a "quiet pool" for people who want... well, quiet! A considerate parent will take their kids to the main pool to scream and play to their hearts' content, and refrain from having the kids practicing their arias (and cannonballs) in the quiet pool.
 
mshanson3121 said:
The level of judgement on this thread against a child, is absolutely mind-boggling, and wow, would I love to see how many of you have children that were 100% perfectly behaved, every single second of the day. Several expressions come to mind, not the least of which is those in glass houses.... But anyways.

I think the points on the expectations and how lines are blurred at Disney is very real. I think that if Disney was REALLY serious about not having children come up to the performers, they'd have ropes across. How many times in Disney do children encounter characters in costumes actively engaging the children, inviting them in, to participate? I can easily see how it becomes difficult for a young child to know when not to. Should the parents have intervened? Yes. But the fact that they didn't is NOT the child's fault, nor does it mean the child is an undisciplined brat. So, stop passing judgement and writing him off as undisciplined, obnoxious, bratty, just based on one chance encounter, with which none of us know the full details. Instead, you'd better take a look in the mirror. You've got a few faults of your own.
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Nicely said. And to add to All these people passing judgement on these families - you should feel blessed that you have perfect little offspring that sit with their hands folded at dinner and never have a meltdown and always follow the rules. And what about the GROWN adults that go running down Main Street running everyone over at rope drop dragging their kids behind them prob to grab some extra FP with their extra sets of bands. Gee where do the kids get it from!! Maybe this post should read Control the adults!
I am all for discipline and I think that was absolutely wrong for the child to bang on the keys without any parent intervention. I actually like when it is someone else's kid acting up and not mine :)
 
Mackenzie Click-Mickelson said:
When I was growing up my parents would play games with me while standing in line at theme parks, if we went to restaurants they would bring Brain Quest and I would be quizzed with them and when I was young enough I would walk either with my hand in theirs or right by their side so they could keep track of me. Nowadays it's usually an electronic device like a cell phone or tablet in the child's hands as well as the parent's.
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This. :worship:

When my son was young, we always had something to do when we waited. If it was somewhere he could sit, like a doctor's office, it was a book. At a restaurant it might be a book or a portable game. (For those that like to do that, check out the game "Albert's Insomnia.") If the wait was going to be in line, it might be something like MadLibs or Brain Quest. And if by chance we forgot to pack something, it was "I Spy."

I rarely see anyone doing anything while in line. The last time I was at the doctor's office, the kids were either just sitting there, or they had lost it and were running around. :sad2:
 
starjazz said:
To be honest, I'm totally with you. I basically hate kids if we're being frank. (okay, not really, lol) I was merely responding to the OP and that specific situation. I think there needs to be a bit of leniency when at a place like WDW. I allow mine to be a little more silly, a little more rambunctious, a little louder, etc., than I normally would, cuz its Disney - its for them. So, my whole thing involves setting your expectations. At Disney, if a kid is climbing around in a restaurant, I'm gonna let it pass. If I'm at a quiet pool at a resort in Mexico, and kids are being loud, I'm likely to be far less tolerant of it.
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No, Disney is not "for them" (children). The whole reason Walt Disney initially built Disneyland was because he wanted a place where parents and children could enjoy things together. He was sick of sitting passively on a bench watching his girls ride a merry-go-round in a park in CA. Hence, the idea of Disneyland. He did not build it so children could run rampant and be rude. I would re-watch Pinocchio to see Disney's take on what happens to children when they run amok and don't have boundaries. Remember what makes a "real boy"? It's not running and climbing in a restaurant or banging on a piano while someone is trying to perform and others are trying to listen.
 
mel373 said:
And to add to All these people passing judgement on these families - you should feel blessed that you have perfect little offspring that sit with their hands folded at dinner and never have a meltdown and always follow the rules. ...

I am all for discipline and I think that was absolutely wrong for the child to bang on the keys without any parent intervention.
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So you don't approve of people passing judgment on kids banging away on piano keys and the parents' failure to intervene ....but....you agree that such behavior was wrong. So if the failure to supervise was, in your own words, "absolutely wrong", then you are agreeing that a greater level of supervision would have been a better response. But once you distill it down to that, aren't you judging too? How can you suggest that a greater level of supervision would have been better without passing the same judgment as those who you now criticize? The only way out of this box is to say: "I think that was absolutely wrong for the child to bang on the keys without any parent intervention, but I disagree with all of you who are passing judgment and who think that the parents should have intervened." This creates a paradox of "a wrong with no solution" and is nonsensical. Once you concede that the lack of parental intervention was "absolutely wrong", you have to move into the camp of "intervention would have been better." And once you are in that camp, you are judging.
 
As my daughter grows up, I find that being a role model for her changes. The last few years that has meant holding my tongue when I see behavior that astounds me. I am acutely aware that the things I say and the way I react will be judged or used (or both), so I try to be careful. And really, unless someone needs to call 911, I think my opinions are better kept to myself (I can be pretty snarky and it's not a good look).

That said, DD and I have a saying that covers a lot of ground when we see obnoxious, self-centered, rude and otherwise irritating displays: "At least we don't have to go home with them!"
 
starjazz said:
If kids can't be kids in Disney World, I'm not sure where they can be. I'm not suggesting that just anything goes, obviously, but I try really hard not to judge other families. I know with 100% certainty that there are times that my family must look like a complete disaster, and I hope people can be understanding of it. Just my take.
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Sorry, but 'kids being kids' doesn't mean having to put up with all kinds of behavior. I will 'not' be tolerant of out of control, not disciplined children - that's what parents are for.

We're at Disney now, ate at Boma a couple nights ago - table next to us a couple with two boys - about 2 & 6. None of them hardly touched any food - the oldest was wandering around, tried to stand over our table, but I finally gave him the stink eye and he sought other distractions - like picking up the silverware at the table across from us, putting it down,etc. Parents looking, saying nothing. Waitress picked up those place settings along with napkins, quietly told him not to do that. As soon as she left, he started in on some others, finally they were leaving, and 'get this' - Dad takes a knife from him, then puts it back in place on the napkin

They left, we told the waitress what more had been played with, she was soooo
frustrated, said you can't dare say a word to the brat's parents.

So, yes, I 'do' judge bad parenting- we raised three, and I know it takes constant, consistent watching and constructive discipline, which we've noticed many parents aren't willing to do.
 
mel373 said:
Nicely said. And to add to All these people passing judgement on these families - you should feel blessed that you have perfect little offspring that sit with their hands folded at dinner and never have a meltdown and always follow the rules. And what about the GROWN adults that go running down Main Street running everyone over at rope drop dragging their kids behind them prob to grab some extra FP with their extra sets of bands. Gee where do the kids get it from!! Maybe this post should read Control the adults!
I am all for discipline and I think that was absolutely wrong for the child to bang on the keys without any parent intervention. I actually like when it is someone else's kid acting up and not mine :)
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Well, mine certainly don't. But that's when I do my job as a parent. That seems to be the point of the thread.

No one expects kids to behave all the time. They expect parents to actually do something about the bad behavior.

And the adults? They were probably once the kids we are talking about ;)
 
Sammie said:
This is the way it is usually set up and yes that means hands off the piano except for the performer. http://www.stephenamerritt.com/sites/default/files/CokeCorner.jpg
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Ah, yes that makes it very clear! Thank you for the photo.

I refrained from giving my opinion on the situation earlier, as I couldn't quite visualize it well enough. But if this is what the OP saw, then I know exactly what my reaction as a parent would have been.

Leaning on the railing to watch the gentleman play... IF my kid was quiet and attentive and not blocking everyone's view, I could see myself allowing that. I have no problem with the children in the photo. Climbing or sitting on the railing... no, absolutely not. And reaching across to pound on his keys... out the question, what are you thinking, do we need to go back to the hotel room RIGHT NOW? Because we will!

We would then step out, have a chat, and - if the child was properly repentant and apologetic - we would return to wait quietly for the end of the set and apologize in person to the performer. At which point we could continue with our day and nothing further would be said. However, if the child was not sorry, then we would be headed back to our hotel room. (Caveat: If leaving the park means unfairly punishing innocent family members, then I'd opt to sit out any further rides and shows on a bench with the disgraced child instead - with two or more kids, sometimes leaving isn't an option.)

I am basing this on the ages given in the OP's post - children old enough to know proper boundaries. Infants and toddlers who do not know any better should simply be removed and pointed toward something else shiny.

Edit: And yes, I've occasionally missed out on rides and meals and movies and other fun stuff. But that comes with the territory when your 24/7 job is civilizing another human being. And for all I missed when they were small, I was paid back amply when they were older and I could trust them to behave well. :)
 
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