News Round Up

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rteetz said:
If Disney cared what Universal was doing DHS stuff would be done by now.

Talks of Pandora started with them just doing a small attraction in DHS but then sprung into the major land in AK but I really don't think that is because Pandora was a reaction to HP. Again if it was it would've been done by now because phase 2 of HP is already open. Construction for Pandora starting Jan. 2014.

Universal has done a ton of work since the change in ownership yet Disney keeps riding high with attendance and high stock prices without doing much in their florida parks. Disney isn't worried about Universal yet. A third gate might make them a bit worried but not worried enough to build a fifth gate. I think if the public really desired something new we would see attendance decreased or at least stagnant definitely not rises.
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I'm not sure the public really cares about having something new, but rather the idea of having something new.
It's small in the grand scheme, but take everything that opened at DHS today: people have been talking about Launch Bay for months, it opened and outside of the initial rush in the morning, really didn't see the attendance I personally expected based on the hype. I have seen the Animation building more crowded on a random day than Launch Bay was tonight. Club Disney and the holiday dance party started today, and the crowds that I saw in person were pretty dismal compared even with lighter dance party crowds I have seen this year.

Plus the fact that people have this emotional connection to Disney that allows them to forgive anything. The uproar about AP increases? That went away pretty quickly and I doubt we will see any evidence of decreases in AP sales. Just like the crowds only grow at DLR despite how miserable they are, people keep going.
 
SureAsLiz said:
I'm not sure the public really cares about having something new, but rather the idea of having something new.
It's small in the grand scheme, but take everything that opened at DHS today: people have been talking about Launch Bay for months, it opened and outside of the initial rush in the morning, really didn't see the attendance I personally expected based on the hype. I have seen the Animation building more crowded on a random day than Launch Bay was tonight. Club Disney and the holiday dance party started today, and the crowds that I saw in person were pretty dismal compared even with lighter dance party crowds I have seen this year.

Plus the fact that people have this emotional connection to Disney that allows them to forgive anything. The uproar about AP increases? That went away pretty quickly and I doubt we will see any evidence of decreases in AP sales. Just like the crowds only grow at DLR despite how miserable they are, people keep going.
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The rush was all of the disney media and bloggers going to cover the opening of the new things today.

We won't see the evidence of a decrease because disney is making more money off of the AP tickets. lose a few people and it looks like they lost no one, it would take a significant decrease to notice something. Also that wouldn't a noticeable in WDW because there aren't as many as in disneyland where it would be noticeable.

Just wait until tiered pricing...

I take the Pete Werner approach. Stop complaining about ticket price increases if your going to pay for it anyways. You are just feeding into disney's ways. Look at Epcot no major investments since 2005 (Soarin) and attendance had increased but its been by a very small amount compared to say the MK. also look at the attendance differences MK gets almost double AK and DHS, thats a problem.
 


Disney could care less what the people down the road do. People are going to come to Disney because nobody else in Orlando has the nostalgic factor Disney has nor will they ever have it. Disney has to worry about their own product being stale and this is what rushed the speed of the DHS projects. This is why most of the work will be done by 2020 in Hollywood Studios.

Glad to be back the way, been out of country for the last few months visiting family in Ireland. Wonder if a new News Round Up thread is needed....this one is rather large.
 
SureAsLiz said:
Pandora is the counter to HP. They are just taking their sweet time with it
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Ah! I forgot about Pandora. I think you've got it! Yeah.. Disney didn't realize what the success of the HP franchise would be. Presumably that's why they turned down the licensing rights... I think only after they saw how crazy successful the Wizarding World in IoA and later Diagon Alley in US did Disney do a massive ::facepalm:: and did a reactionary buy of rights to Avatar (and to a lesser degree Marvel)...
 
If Universal really does go after the "week-long" visitors by opening a third major theme park...it'll be very, very interesting how it affects Disney. Universal, even with Harry Potter, has always been minor competition to Disney.

However, it's only good for us as the consumer. Potentially, it could lead to prices wars (at least on packages/discounts) and expansions to both properties.
 


Disney reportedly didn't take HP because you had two type A personalities and Rpwling would not give up control.

Marvel and Star Wars was all about the property. Any use or non-use in the parks is secondary. The multi-billions they make on film, tv, merchandising, and licensing is what they were after.

Prior to Harry Potter theming a park area or ride after a movie was a recipe to date your park and cause you extra work. Only Disney was successful with the classics. Remember when Universal Hollywood had Battlestar Gallactica and Back to the Future and Backdraft? Talk about a park that was old and stale. Even the E tickets at Disney avoided property theming.
 
wareagle57 said:
A 5th gate will not help Disney nearly as much as a 3rd and 4th will for Universal. As it is now, if you are really determined, you can do all of Universal in 1 day. 2 is not a problem. But add in a 3rd gate, plus the water park, and it's just as much of a destination location as Disney is currently. People will start taking Universal vacations and spending a day at the MK or a day at Star Wars.
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I have to disagree. Universal would have to do far more than that to be a destination equal to what Disney is, more than they ever could do. In talking to people, at work, friends, etc, I find that the only thing they talk about at Universal is Harry Potter. You can do that in less than a day. Universal just isn't that great. The people I know who are in to coasters don't even mention Universal. They talk about several Six Flags parks and places like Cedar Point. Disney is a worldwide attraction. Universal is a side show. If it wasn't close to Disney and was a stand-alone destination it would be struggling. A lot of people who have been to Universal talk about, as we found, the extremely poor layout of the original park. When we were last there, admittedly a LONG time ago, all the guides said "plan on getting lost early and often" because the layout is so stupid. They were right. We were planing on hitting it for two days, but we didn't even stay through the first one. We did extra time at Disney. I don't see Universal ever pulling even with Disney.
 
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7series said:
I have to disagree. Universal would have to do far more than that to be a destination equal to what Disney is, more than they ever could do. In talking to people, at work, friends, etc, I find that the only thing they talk about at Universal is Harry Potter. You can do that in less than a day. Universal just isn't that great. The people I know who are in to coasters don't even mention Universal. They talk about several Six Flags parks and places like Cedar Point. Disney is a worldwide attraction. Universal is a side show. If it wasn't close to Disney and was a stand-alone destination it would be struggling. A lot of people who have been to Universal talk about, as we found, the extremely poor layout of the original park. When we were last there, admittedly a LONG time ago, all the guides said "plan on getting lost early and often" because the layout is so stupid. They were right. We were planing on hitting it for two days, but we didn't even stay through the first one. We did extra time at Disney. I don't see Universal ever pulling even with Disney.
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Universal is becoming less and less of a side show. A 3rd gate plus the water park and their plans for more hotels and another entertainment district will most definitely give them a look by a lot of people to spend time there rather than Disney. Obviously as PP have said Disney has that nostalgia that is hard to beat. Universal is literally investing billions in Orlando during this decade. I'd also like to remind you that both universal parks are getting very very close to DHS and AK in terms of attendance.
 
rteetz said:
Universal is becoming less and less of a side show. A 3rd gate plus the water park and their plans for more hotels and another entertainment district will most definitely give them a look by a lot of people to spend time there rather than Disney. Obviously as PP have said Disney has that nostalgia that is hard to beat. Universal is literally investing billions in Orlando during this decade. I'd also like to remind you that both universal parks are getting very very close to DHS and AK in terms of attendance.
Click to expand...

I think it will be interesting to see what UNI does with the acquisition of more land. If they achieve some of their strategic goals (some I am making assumptions on), their Orlando location will have 3 gates, a huge water park, 2 city walk locations, plus they are targeting around at least 10,000 on site rooms. Now they are starting to approach a resort that is around half the size of WDW, but with lower prices. Now imagine that 3rd gate with all attractions themed to the level that was displayed in Diagon Alley. Also, working with Peter Jackson and crew on Kong, imagine if they were to get the rights to Lord of the Rings. That 3rd gate could be populated with the likes of LotR, more HP, Jurassic World, Nintendo, etc. People say that Disney doesn't pay attention to what UNI does (personally I don't buy that at all, especially after HP). I would think that developing a world class resort with what I described above would definitely have the Mouse's full attention. I can only imagine the amount of market share that UNI would take from Disney if they finally have a resort complex with the capacity to fill a full week's worth of attractions/shows/restaurants/etc. approaching and/or equaling Disney quality while also being more affordable.
 
Two things:
Did anyone else watch that Trials of the Temple Jedi video? I think they should have rehearsed a few more times before going live.... and what/who the heck was Vadar's little friend there???? I swear the Jedi lady asked, "Is that his sister!?".... really Jedi lady? His sister? Maybe watch a movie before you come out next time ;)

Second, Universal is often seen here (and other Disney centric boards) as some throw away roller coaster park. I have lost count of the number of times I have read that it is only for people who like thrill rides, and yet that is incredibly misinformed. When planning my trip I even debated skipping Universal. Even after visiting 6 or 7 times in the past years, I had started buying into the notion that it wouldn't have anything for my kids. To figure out if it was going to be worth the cost I created an attraction list, with min. height requirements, and was very surprised to see my 5 year old can ride almost anything in the park (save for Hulk, Dueling Dragons, and Rip Ride). The theming in Diagon Alley is top notch, and the ability to interact with various objects using the wands is really fun.

It is also a crap ton more affordable to stay on site at Universal... for nicer accommodations in many cases.... And the express pass is nothing to be sneezed at either. That's a heck of a benefit.
 
rteetz said:
Universal is becoming less and less of a side show. A 3rd gate plus the water park and their plans for more hotels and another entertainment district will most definitely give them a look by a lot of people to spend time there rather than Disney. Obviously as PP have said Disney has that nostalgia that is hard to beat. Universal is literally investing billions in Orlando during this decade. I'd also like to remind you that both universal parks are getting very very close to DHS and AK in terms of attendance.
Click to expand...
They aren't that close. They need about a 30% increase in attendance (a pretty huge increase) to catch DHS, and about 50% (even more) to catch AK, and once Avatar and Star Wars open they will fall away again.
 
7series said:
They aren't that close. They need about a 30% increase in attendance (a pretty huge increase) to catch DHS, and about 50% (even more) to catch AK, and once Avatar and Star Wars open they will fall away again.
Click to expand...
I'd like to point out that those numbers are estimations and how do we know they aren't closer. I have heard Disney likes to inflate their numbers a bit if they don't like them.

Disneys increases have been pretty stagnant lately at the parks not called MK but Once the expansions open that should change. Universal should not be under estimated they are really changing the game in how they operate. Heck I've never been there but with what they are doing I wouldn't say no at the chance to go.
 
eXo said:
Second, Universal is often seen here (and other Disney centric boards) as some throw away roller coaster park. I have lost count of the number of times I have read that it is only for people who like thrill rides, and yet that is incredibly misinformed. When planning my trip I even debated skipping Universal. Even after visiting 6 or 7 times in the past years, I had started buying into the notion that it wouldn't have anything for my kids. To figure out if it was going to be worth the cost I created an attraction list, with min. height requirements, and was very surprised to see my 5 year old can ride almost anything in the park (save for Hulk, Dueling Dragons, and Rip Ride). The theming in Diagon Alley is top notch, and the ability to interact with various objects using the wands is really fun.

It is also a crap ton more affordable to stay on site at Universal... for nicer accommodations in many cases.... And the express pass is nothing to be sneezed at either. That's a heck of a benefit.
Click to expand...

It's not just a roller coaster park for sure. The key question with Universal is how much tolerance people have towards simulators. There's a reason behind Disney's huge success even at their current prices: they have something for every single member of your family regardless of their age, which is not necessarily the case at Universal. And this is not criticism towards Universal at all. It's just that Disney and Uni cater to different markets, and that's perfectly fine. You probably won't see many grandparents having the time of their lives on Popeye's or Ripsaw Falls.
 
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SureAsLiz said:
I'm not sure the public really cares about having something new, but rather the idea of having something new.
It's small in the grand scheme, but take everything that opened at DHS today: people have been talking about Launch Bay for months, it opened and outside of the initial rush in the morning, really didn't see the attendance I personally expected based on the hype. I have seen the Animation building more crowded on a random day than Launch Bay was tonight. Club Disney and the holiday dance party started today, and the crowds that I saw in person were pretty dismal compared even with lighter dance party crowds I have seen this year.

Plus the fact that people have this emotional connection to Disney that allows them to forgive anything. The uproar about AP increases? That went away pretty quickly and I doubt we will see any evidence of decreases in AP sales. Just like the crowds only grow at DLR despite how miserable they are, people keep going.
Click to expand...

I am still mostly onboard...and was completely 2 years ago...

But I think the mentality is changing behind the scenes. NOT because of universal.

I think Disney thinks it's losing business because the grumblings of price increase and crowd levels is starting to gain steam. It's not that they aren't making money...they think they are leaving it on the table.

Sadly, they're probably right.

They also probably see what's going on with the RFID system now that it's stable and I'd bet dimes to dollars they don't like the trends in regards to capacity long term.

They are seeing 2020 attendance and spending projections with an Arsenal of 1965-1992 conceived and constructed amusement parks. They do know it but they waited too long *****ing and whining about stock prices and operating income. No long term thinking. That's why downtown is so massive and avatar got likely much bigger than first thought...they are trying to "get ahead" of it.

What they did wrong is Sit on their cans from 98-2012 more or less...and that is a horrible decision in themeparks - whether you're Disney or not. Can't do it.

Now it seems that they are slowly waking up.

There are other factors - I'm simplifying here.
 
Flyerjab said:
I think it will be interesting to see what UNI does with the acquisition of more land. If they achieve some of their strategic goals (some I am making assumptions on), their Orlando location will have 3 gates, a huge water park, 2 city walk locations, plus they are targeting around at least 10,000 on site rooms. Now they are starting to approach a resort that is around half the size of WDW, but with lower prices. Now imagine that 3rd gate with all attractions themed to the level that was displayed in Diagon Alley. Also, working with Peter Jackson and crew on Kong, imagine if they were to get the rights to Lord of the Rings. That 3rd gate could be populated with the likes of LotR, more HP, Jurassic World, Nintendo, etc. People say that Disney doesn't pay attention to what UNI does (personally I don't buy that at all, especially after HP). I would think that developing a world class resort with what I described above would definitely have the Mouse's full attention. I can only imagine the amount of market share that UNI would take from Disney if they finally have a resort complex with the capacity to fill a full week's worth of attractions/shows/restaurants/etc. approaching and/or equaling Disney quality while also being more affordable.
Click to expand...

I think the Harry Potter and recent rash of construction has made Disney at least consider it for the first time since IOA constuction (which is why animal kingdom screwed in one way)...and comcasts unwaivering and somewhat unexpected decision to
Double down in Florida when they took control of NBC/universal....

But the only thing that has the rat's attention is that very key 3% loss of market share number. That's the whole ballgame because it represents year over year of losses in revenue and profits.

Seaworld has gotten destroyed by a documentary for going on 3 years...and yet still Disney has lost part of its share of the pie.

That's a big deal...all else is comparatively smoke and mirrors.
 
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