RUMORS: Luke is Kylo Ren

Just something to ponder, in the latest preview we do see very briefly John Boyega's character wielding a blue saber, in the snow, so presumably this links to the original preview where we saw Kylo Ren first fire up his red saber (kinda like the old midevil look of it). So here is the ponder...who trains Boyega's character to use the saber? You would ASSUME it would be an "old wise jedi" such as Luke...possibly Leia, we know she was strong with the force.

Just another monkey wrench...your thoughts?

My theory...and how I'd do it?

And realize this is 100% out of my mind...I have no spoiler rumors/info to draw upon.

We know that there is a confrontation Between the 3 main young characters in the snow:..

And unless they've totally reinvented the wheel...we know that the Finn character with a lightsaber isn't gonna do anything because he's clueless...

So how would you resolve this...obviously nobody dies of the 3...

Hmmm...wouldn't a "third/fourth man in" be the way to go?
Would any seats be occupied in theater after it happened? Answer is NO

lockedoutlogic said:

There are a lot of opinions that this movie will be a combo retelling of both Star Wars and empire...

...but that actually makes a lot of sense.

Because they don't have to tell a completely new story here to make a good one and rekick the franchise.

Trilogies work best when the middle chapter is best and the third is more uplifting...

As we've seen in many ways with lord of the rings (different scenario, but the stories worked) and nolans Batmans.

Not only that...but kasdan had referenced the principles of storytelling/Shakespeare in interviews...

A story is intro, struggle, and triumph...that is only a consistent winner throughout recorded history.

Now...I'm not sure that I'll absolutely love a new version of the original movie...but will my 8 year old on 12/17? It has been 38+ years...

And that is probably how Disney is going...an update to try and rebuild...

Why can they get away with a rebuild? Why can it be a huge hit?

Three of the most awful movies in history make it so. Everything that was wrong with modern movies circa 2000...

That's the context.

I do agree that Star Trek was a better effort than "into darkness"...

Which may be why they're using "director rotation" for all the planned films...

Every director has probably grown up/dreamed about shooting a star wars...

This way they get 2-3 years of nut/zealot commitment from each director. One shot at immortality.

I still think it funny that Lucas bothered to say "I won't be directing any more Star Wars" out loud...

NOBODY wants you anywhere near it, Bub.

Click to expand...

I definitely think The Force Awakens is more for the 8 year olds of today than people who 8 years old in the 70's, but the original Star Wars was basically The Wizard of Oz for little boys any way...

Luke is Dorothy stuck on the farm dreaming of a better life, until the farm is destroyed by tragedy

Old Ben appears at first to be like the bumbling Professor Marvel who later ends up being the Wizard/Jedi with the power to help Luke

Princess Leia is Glinda the Good who sends them on their journey, and Glinda/Leia magically appears after meeting the Jawa/Munchkins

Darth Vader is the Wicked Witch with Storm Troopers instead of Flying Monkeys. R2-D2 is Toto, because both are cute and very helpful on the journey, but the Witch wants to get the "little dog too" because he's carrying plans for the Death Star

Han Solo is the Scarecrow, loyal but not too bright, C-3PO is the Tin Man constantly worrying about rusting/injury/sand, and instead of a Cowardly Lion they have a Chewbacca the Wookie... who's afraid to go down in the trash compactor... which is kinda like the field of poppies

Finally though they defeat the Wicked Witch and her Death Star by exploiting some really unbelievable weakness, water? air shaft? Then at the end everyone gets medals and the thing that saves the day is a very simple phrase from the Wizard ...there's no place like home ...use the force ...there's no place like home ...use the force or basically "believe in yourself"

Aside from all the main characters and plot points that George Lucas appears to have borrowed, the first Star Wars is also like The Wizard of Oz because they are both movies that appealed to people of all ages, and have continued to be appealing for generations. The difference with the Phantom Menace was that it tried appealing adults with a lot of high minded talk about politics and the force, and mixed in a few cartoon characters for the kids but it just doesn't hold together as a film. The Phantom Menace is less like a fairy tale for all ages, it's more like an office building that conveniently happens to have a day-care center inside it, and I don't think they will make that same mistake again

But the new Lead Character/Luke/Dorothy seems to me to be Rey, her Toto has a spherical body instead of a cylindrical body, her C3PO has a rusty red arm instead of a shiny silver leg, and when she's sneaking around inside the fallen Star Destroyer she's dressed very similarly to Leia when she went sneaking around Jabba the Hutt's place... so maybe like Luke and Leia, Rey got the force too? and maybe her Old Ben will be her Old Luke? and Old Ben was alive in 4 movies and a ghost in 2, and this will be Luke's 4th movie ...anyway

Whether Rey is the new Luke and a future Jedi is debatable, but the new Vader seems to Kylo Ren, and keeping with the allusion to Nazis he's got Storm Troopers, and giant red, black and white banners everywhere, plus he's also got a Nazi-like motivation. The devastation of Germany after World War 1 is what lead to Hitler's rise to power... hence the fallen Star Destroyers everywhere. Trying to reclaim their former glory is what drove the Nazis to World War 2 and trying to reclaim the former glory of the fallen Empire is also what seems to be what driving Kylo Ren and The New Order

So getting back to the point of the thread, Kylo Ren is not Luke, Kylo Ren seems to basically be Adolph Hitler, and is being played by an actor who kinda looks like Marilyn Manson... so Kylo Ren is a super baddie, and whether any of this adds up to "a great motion picture" remains to be seen

I agree with everything you said...

Except the vague defense of
Prequels as being too adult...

I've heard every defense in the book of that flaming bag...

"Meant for kids". "Meant for adults" "intentionally serious" "intentionally comedic"

Blah blah blah.


What they WERE...we're just plain awful stories/movies that were executed even worse than you could imagine.

Fans try to be loyal...try to honor Lucas...try to let them "grow on people"...

But eventually people will just let it breathe and move on. They are AWFUL.

That's as much of a reason I'm hoping Disney pulls together at least B/B+ Movies if not better...
It will put this charade to bed!!

And maybe competing media giants...cbs being the current willing participant...will stop giving LUCAS a microphone to tell us how we're all wrong about everything.

Because I know what a port o John smells like...you can paint it purple...it's still ain't "art"


Now...on a lighter note...check this out

http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-force-awakens/

lockedoutlogic said:

I agree with everything you said...

Except the vague defense of
Prequels as being too adult...

I've heard every defense in the book of that flaming bag...

"Meant for kids". "Meant for adults" "intentionally serious" "intentionally comedic"

Blah blah blah.


What they WERE...we're just plain awful stories/movies that were executed even worse than you could imagine.

Fans try to be loyal...try to honor Lucas...try to let them "grow on people"...

But eventually people will just let it breathe and move on. They are AWFUL.

That's as much of a reason I'm hoping Disney pulls together at least B/B+ Movies if not better...
It will put this charade to bed!!

And maybe competing media giants...cbs being the current willing participant...will stop giving LUCAS a microphone to tell us how we're all wrong about everything.

Because I know what a port o John smells like...you can paint it purple...it's still ain't "art"


Now...on a lighter note...check this out

http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-force-awakens/

Click to expand...

I think the main problem with any prequel movie, is that you know how it's going to end before you get to the theater, there's no element of surprise, no "Luke I'm you father" kinds of moments.

With episodes 1 through 3 the moments that I think are meant for adults are all the attempts to rationalize the fantasy elements of the original trilogy, in a word "midichlorians". No one really needed or wanted to know about that any more than any more than they needed to see the Wookie "Life Day" craziness of the Star Wars Holiday Special.

Not every story and aspect of that universe is necessarily interesting, but it's also not meant for children. Did kids in the 2000's care that all the clones came from Boba Fett's dad? Probably not, that was something they crammed into the story because they thought it would appeal to the kids on the 70's and 80's who were now adults when the prequels were released. As well as all the stuff about senate and trade embargos, that's all over littles kids heads, but al ot of kids seem to think that Jar Jar was funny

The thing that bothers me about these trailers for the Force Awakens, is that they have that same kind of fan fiction, "obsessed with every aspect of the original trilogy" vibe, that doomed the prequels, but at least these new films have the element of surprise going for them, so that's something to look forward too.

and not to be snarky, but after Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull I'm not sure I trust Spielberg's opinions on this kind of stuff

TT77 said:

I think the main problem with any prequel movie, is that you know how it's going to end before you get to the theater, there's no element of surprise, no "Luke I'm you father" kinds of moments.

With episodes 1 through 3 the moments that I think are meant for adults are all the attempts to rationalize the fantasy elements of the original trilogy, in a word "midichlorians". No one really needed or wanted to know about that any more than any more than they needed to see the Wookie "Life Day" craziness of the Star Wars Holiday Special.

Not every story and aspect of that universe is necessarily interesting, but it's also not meant for children. Did kids in the 2000's care that all the clones came from Boba Fett's dad? Probably not, that was something they crammed into the story because they thought it would appeal to the kids on the 70's and 80's who were now adults when the prequels were released. As well as all the stuff about senate and trade embargos, that's all over littles kids heads, but al ot of kids seem to think that Jar Jar was funny

The thing that bothers me about these trailers for the Force Awakens, is that they have that same kind of fan fiction, "obsessed with every aspect of the original trilogy" vibe, that doomed the prequels, but at least these new films have the element of surprise going for them, so that's something to look forward too.

and not to be snarky, but after Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull I'm not sure I trust Spielberg's opinions on this kind of stuff

Click to expand...

We all knew the story...but he could have given us moments where we smiled and nodded our heads...the "oh yeah" vibes

Instead we squinted, scratched and went "wha-...?"


I'm gonna have to disagree that the "original vibe" isn't the way to go. This movie is almost a mulligan...

Yeah...those prequels were THAT BAD. The money that was a slam dunk washed away some of the stink...but not the sin.


Spielberg?
Yeah...he's not the most credible here...

Well...perhaps...his best friend might have embarrassed himself with some big blockbusters he tried to make and then old Stevie dove on the bomb That became Indy 4...

Maybe?

On another note...

If you want a really good entertainment Interview...there's only one person to get it from...

Antics aside...it's Howard stern. He actually is a fantastic interviewer.

Abrams was on yesterday and elaborated on some interesting details about his job (that's what stern is good at getting out)...the interview was very good.

He talked about working with/for Disney...which was interesting...he also talked a little about the general concept of the movie...

I honestly think they couldn't have taken a better approach.

Now all that's left is to sit down...take a deep breath...and look at the screen.

...Ahhhh, who am I kidding? I will be breathing into a paper bag
Next to my 8 year old. The only thing we'll be thinking about is the last time we went down this road in May 1999 when the scroll started.

Still gonna be weird to see the fireworks/castle thing at the beginning and not the 20th century fox cinescope

Yep, I've got my 9 y/o watching the movies to get her up to speed. What was funny is I tried to explain to her how we had to start off with A New Hope, then Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. Then, 20 years later, we got the first three movies so we went backwards.

I kid you not, she thought a minute and said, "So it's kinda like that show on TV called Lost?". I told her "Yes, but Lost made more sense."

On a good note, by the time she got to A New Hope she has already started cheering when the Star Wars music starts up right after you see "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." She should be ready for the theater in a few weeks...

You exposed her to Hayden Christiansen?

If she were 17 - I'd call child protective services.

To make it worse, somehow a dang 1 ended up in there. She's 9. I edited the post to fix it from the "19 y/o" that you originally saw.

She didn't notice him because she was a Jar Jar fan (slapping myself in the forehead).

tiggerdad said:

To make it worse, somehow a dang 1 ended up in there. She's 9. She didn't notice him because she was a Jar Jar fan (slapping myself in the forehead).

Click to expand...

Good...because i thought you were nuts at 19

But now I AM calling social services

regarding Luke and The Dark Side.

I know it is not cannon (sp) now. But there were 2 Book series (comic novels) called Dark Empire and Dark Empire 2. Luke allowed himself to become a full sith lord and be the right hand of a "cloned" emperor. That is the easy way to imortality, clone yourself.

Luke wanted to fully understand the dark side in order to destroy it for ever.

So, Luke to the Dark Side is not out of the question.

Read the books and good point.

In the second teaser trailer, there is a voice in the background talking that initially I assumed was Luke. It says "The Force is strong in my family. My father HAS it, I have it, my sister has it. You have that power too". Initially I thought it was Luke, but then I realized it said "My father HAS it".


If it were Luke he would have spoken of Vader in the past tense, I mean since he got dismembered, electrocuted, taken off life support, then barbecued...I think that counts as dead.

So, was it just one of Abrams curve balls that he spoke about to throw people off track, or are we dealing with something else. Maybe a complete reversal of the original plot where it was the son trying to save the evil father. Are we maybe looking at an offspring of Luke being Kylo Ren and perhaps it's the father trying to save the son from evil...

DSLRuser said:

regarding Luke and The Dark Side.

I know it is not cannon (sp) now. But there were 2 Book series (comic novels) called Dark Empire and Dark Empire 2. Luke allowed himself to become a full sith lord and be the right hand of a "cloned" emperor. That is the easy way to imortality, clone yourself.

Luke wanted to fully understand the dark side in order to destroy it for ever.

So, Luke to the Dark Side is not out of the question.

Click to expand...

All that crap has been publically disavowed by Disney.

That story you speak of has been specifically discredited - I do believe.

That doesn't mean skywalker can't be "twisted"...but I don't think anything remotely related to "cloning" will manifest itself.

Point taken though.

tiggerdad said:

In the second teaser trailer, there is a voice in the background talking that initially I assumed was Luke. It says "The Force is strong in my family. My father HAS it, I have it, my sister has it. You have that power too". Initially I thought it was Luke, but then I realized it said "My father HAS it".

Click to expand...

If you listen really closely, you'll hear that not only is it Luke speaking, it's actually dialogue from Return Of The Jedi, when Luke revealed his relationship to Leia. The only difference is that one of the lines was rearranged, and put at the beginning instead of the end.

MrJT said:

If you listen really closely, you'll hear that not only is it Luke speaking, it's actually dialogue from Return Of The Jedi, when Luke revealed his relationship to Leia. The only difference is that one of the lines was rearranged, and put at the beginning instead of the end.

Click to expand...

Well, that solved that. You are dead on.

Lol...

I have seen this referenced across the Internet...

Did the fact that it was the EXACT same dialogue as return of the Jedi not seem apparent?

It slipped past a ton of people...


What? Doesn't everyone have Jedi memorized?

No, I memorized Sith instead. Just couldn't take the "goody two-shoes" garbage. I prefer the power and I will once again be cheering for the Dark Side in the next series of movies...

lockedoutlogic said:

Did the fact that it was the EXACT same dialogue as return of the Jedi not seem apparent?

It slipped past a ton of people...

Click to expand...

To be fair, it was out of order. And I watched the trailer, and then that part of the blu-ray, just to make sure I knew what was going on.

tiggerdad said:

No, I memorized Sith instead. Just couldn't take the "goody two-shoes" garbage. I prefer the power and I will once again be cheering for the Dark Side in the next series of movies...

Click to expand...

lets be honest…that was downright terrible too…

and before you say "what part?"…i have a list of 25 scenes without blinking…not just the frankenstein one.

my son asked to watch the "general grievous fight" today and i let him on my phone…don't think i'd seen it in 10 years (i don't actually think i've watched more than 10 minutes of any of them outside of the movie theaters)…

…and it was absolutely awful. just as bad as bad can get.

all three of those horrid endeavours -
"misguided…they were….
devoid of intelligence…proved to be…
galactic fools…we have been…"

couldn't have said better myself WISEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE!!

i need a drink.