Will DVC change for the worse like other timeshares?

kapicka

Mouseketeer
DVC Gold
Joined
May 19, 2007
Hi. First let me say that we put just our toes in the water initially with a 25 point contract and loved virtually everything about DVC so we now have 2 "normal sized" contracts as well. We have another waiting on FROR (though I think it has a slim chance of making it - fingers crossed).

My thought/concern when I talk to people with non-Disney timeshares is that they say things get worse over time. I'm not specifically wondering about resorts getting older or annual fees going up some, but wondering about reservations. I've talked to people who say it is nearly impossible for them to find dates to use their points.

Is the DVC setup such that no matter how many resorts/rooms there are it will always be about the same difficulty to make a reservation? I'm asking because though some room types and seasons book up right away we have had good success when we are flexible and even when we waitlist.

Would love to hear from the "experts".
 
Hi. First let me say that we put just our toes in the water initially with a 25 point contract and loved virtually everything about DVC so we now have 2 "normal sized" contracts as well. We have another waiting on FROR (though I think it has a slim chance of making it - fingers crossed).

My thought/concern when I talk to people with non-Disney timeshares is that they say things get worse over time. I'm not specifically wondering about resorts getting older or annual fees going up some, but wondering about reservations. I've talked to people who say it is nearly impossible for them to find dates to use their points.

Is the DVC setup such that no matter how many resorts/rooms there are it will always be about the same difficulty to make a reservation? I'm asking because though some room types and seasons book up right away we have had good success when we are flexible and even when we waitlist.

Would love to hear from the "experts".

I've been a member 16 years and only once did not get a reservation. That was when I tried to get a room for 1 night in mid October, called about 3 weeks out. Nothing available anywhere, not surprising. I once got a night at BCV 1 week ahead (add on to a business trip). All other times I got my home resort at 11 months or other resorts at 7 months, each time my first choice, no waitlist. I only own at BWV. Have stayed at all WDW DVC resorts except SSR (have a reservation for Poly next May). Plus I've stayed at VGC 4 times. Dues have gone up less than 5% per year. When I bought there was no AP discount, now there is. No complaints here.
 
we've owned since 1999 - initially bought BWV, added BCV & SSR at pre-build, then another BWV contract just recently.
it used to be that getting a BWV villa was easy any time......but as more DVC resorts have been build, putting more owners & points into the DVC system, getting exactly what we want requires booking within a few days of the 11 month mark. so far, getting a single "try a different resort" night at the beginning of our vacations has been productive at 7m - BLT, VGF, & Poly. the only totally elusive ressie is AKV club level studio (which i'll likely have a friend who owns there try to book).
**if there was no 11m owners' window, we wouldn't own - for us, BWV BW view is a necessity, not an option (& difficult to get at 7m for the times we go: F&GF & F&WF).
 
My thought/concern when I talk to people with non-Disney timeshares is that they say things get worse over time. I'm not specifically wondering about resorts getting older or annual fees going up some, but wondering about reservations. I've talked to people who say it is nearly impossible for them to find dates to use their points.
Mostly what you are seeing is the recovery of leisure travel from the recessionary trough. During and shortly after the recession, a number of owners weren't able to travel, even with lodging already "paid for." So, a lot of time went unused, or at best deposited to an exchange in the hopes of using it later.

Now that's no longer the case. Tourism has fully recovered, so more people are actually using the time they own. That has made some in-demand reservations harder to get.
 


IMO the running of the DVC has gone downhill. Website has major issues, inventory disappears and re-appears, telephone hold times can be long, rooms often have cleaning and maintenance issues and the refurbishment schedules seem to wait until there are some major wear issues.

:earsboy: Bill
 
OP - we've been owners for over 10 years at SSR and we just did an add on there. We have never gotten "skunked" (knock wood LOL) on either availability or with room issues. I think some of that is by design -- we book our major vacation around the 10 month mark if we're staying home or at the 7 month mark if we're staying elsewhere. If we do try a non-home resort we book first by room size and then by resort -- I don't do split stays.
As for rooms, the minor issues encountered with the room through the years have always been addressed quickly after a visit to the front desk (never call).
As a PP said the web site is a mess and wait times can be long for talking to a CM. But those fall into annoyances vs deal breakers.
 


For us, DVC went downhill to the point where we sold both of our contracts (both passed ROFR and are closing in the next month *fingers crossed*). We owned BWV and VBR which is probably obvious from my username lol. We could book at 11 months, but the days of short-notice trips are long-gone for us. That made DVC less-than-useful to us. Add to this the fact that the BWV renovation was years too late and then the hike in AP costs (we are on a school schedule, so we travel during "blackout" dates) and that was it for us.

Oddly, we haven't had the website or phone issues mentioned.

We own quite a few other timeshares that we trade, we are active members of RCI and II, and I can honestly say that I've never had the same issues of disrepair at other timeshares that I've had at DVC. Maybe we just had bad luck with DVC...I really don't know. We are at BWV now for our last trip, and all 4 of us are glad that this is it. None of us feels sad or nostalgic, and that alone makes me sad.
 
Everyone's experiences will vary. We are very pleased and have been for over 18 years. The website works for me and never waited long for phone service to MS. Possibly I avoid wait times by avoiding peak calling times. But to me that is smart on my part much like avoiding rush hour traffic. As to the website I sometimes think that is more user issues than the DVC site. If not why doesn't everyone experience those issues?

I have never gotten a dirty room. We had a frig once that was less than clean and they came right away and cleaned it and treated us to dinner while it was cleaned. Sure some wear and tear but I expect that. If we have a maintenance issue they come quickly and fix it.

So really it is hard to say. What bothers many does not bother me and we seem to not experience the issues others say they do. I do try very hard to realize with hundreds of thousands of members it would be impossible to make everyone happy. I think they do a good job of making the majority of members happy.

Plus change does not bother me at all, it does seem to really bother some. I like the new decors at the resorts.

I think with any place where you go often your chances of having a bad stay increase due to the frequency of going to the same place.
 
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Everyone's experiences will vary. We are very pleased and have been for over 18 years. The website works for me and never waited long for phone service to MS. Possibly I avoid wait times by avoiding peak calling times. But to me that is smart on my part much like avoiding rush hour traffic. As to the website I sometimes think that is more user issues than the DVC site. If not why doesn't everyone experience those issues?

I have never gotten a dirty room. We had a frig once that was less than clean and they came right away and cleaned it and treated us to dinner while it was cleaned. Sure some wear and tear but I expect that. If we have a maintenance issue they are come quickly and fix it.

So really it is hard to say. What bothers many does not bother me and we seem to not experience the issues others say they do. I do try very hard to realize with hundreds of thousands of members it would be impossible to make everyone happy. I think they do a good job of making the majority of members happy.

Plus change does not bother me at all, it does seem to really bother some. I like the new decors at the resorts.

I think with any place where you go often your chances of having a bad stay increase due to the frequency of going to the same place.
 
We have been OKW members since 1993 and BWV members since 2004. There have been times that the villa was in need of additional cleaning and maintenance but over 50 plus stays that has been minimal.
The service at BWV was exceptional three years ago when we stayed in a BWV GV, 2 story villa. One of the bedrooms overlooks the living area, our guest expressed concern that there is a window overlooking that area. A call to housekeeping and 2 CM's arrived with a curtain rod, sheers and drapes to cover the door.
Where else but Disney do you get that kind of service?
 
We tend to book at 11 months mostly and have never not got a room. We might have had to stay at a different resort to our first choice when swapping at 7 months but we have always got the room size we wanted in the time period we wanted. We tend to love split stays so that helps but we haven't found booking to be that bad.

The website is buggy but you kinda get used to working with it after a while it doesn't really bother me.

I know some people have but so far we have never had a dirty room. We have had some maintenance issue which were always sorted same day.
 
For us, DVC went downhill to the point where we sold both of our contracts (both passed ROFR and are closing in the next month *fingers crossed*). We owned BWV and VBR which is probably obvious from my username lol. We could book at 11 months, but the days of short-notice trips are long-gone for us. That made DVC less-than-useful to us. Add to this the fact that the BWV renovation was years too late and then the hike in AP costs (we are on a school schedule, so we travel during "blackout" dates) and that was it for us.

Oddly, we haven't had the website or phone issues mentioned.

We own quite a few other timeshares that we trade, we are active members of RCI and II, and I can honestly say that I've never had the same issues of disrepair at other timeshares that I've had at DVC. Maybe we just had bad luck with DVC...I really don't know. We are at BWV now for our last trip, and all 4 of us are glad that this is it. None of us feels sad or nostalgic, and that alone makes me sad.

The BWV renovation was years too late? There was a full renovation in 2009/2010. The ones who should be complaining are BCV owners, theirs keeps getting delayed.
 
The BWV renovation was years too late? There was a full renovation in 2009/2010. The ones who should be complaining are BCV owners, theirs keeps getting delayed.

True on the BCV...that place was looking worn a few years ago when we stayed there. Not sure how it has gone so long without a renovation.

The last full renovation at BWV was only 5 years ago???? I didn't know that and it surprises me very much considering the awful, awful unit we had here in 2013. I actually don't know why I'm surprised...we are in a renovated BWV unit right now and the new carpet in the bedroom is covered in stains already :( At first we thought that it was old carpeting but it definitely isn't the carpeting we remember the last time we stayed here. I honestly think that this place just sees excessive wear from guests who just don't care.
 
I'm not specifically wondering about resorts getting older or annual fees going up some, but wondering about reservations. I've talked to people who say it is nearly impossible for them to find dates to use their points.
I think most people who have extreme difficulties in getting reservations are clueless about how the system works.

Is the DVC setup such that no matter how many resorts/rooms there are it will always be about the same difficulty to make a reservation?
No, not at all. And neither is any other timeshare system which allows use of ownership across any time of the year.

The restrictions are:
  • The number of room-nights they have and the allocation of points across that 365 day period.
    • once established, this cannot be changed. The points costs for various accommodations may be modified, but the TOTAL amount of points cannot be increased.
    • They can, however, adjust the number of points required for a specific lodging category on a specific date.
  • and...the manner in which they allow owners to use their points.
    • With DVC, you can book your home resort at 11 months, and any resort that is available at 7 months.
    • That COULD change (but I doubt that it will).
    • The only guarantee you have is that home resort owners must have at least a one-month booking advantage (currently 4 months...which has worked well) over non-home resort owners.
 
We bought DVC after our DDs were grown, so our travel dates are pretty flexible now and will become moreso when we retire in a few years. We've been in DVC for about 10 years and really have no major complaints and have enjoyed our trips a lot. We really look forward to spoiling our granddaughters at WDW for years to come. :earsboy:
 
I have only owned a few years but never had trouble yet making a reservation at our home resort BWV in October. You just have to be on the ball and make it when it opens up.
 
I have only owned a few years but never had trouble yet making a reservation at our home resort BWV in October. You just have to be on the ball and make it when it opens up.

If you can make a reservation right at 11 months I think you should be fine. For us the trouble we were running into is that 1) we no longer wanted to stay at our home resort after a really bad unit and 2) we like to book shorter-notice trips as we live close to WDW. We probably got spoiled during they years of the recession when people weren't traveling much. Now that the economy is better, we can't book on shorter notice and that was a big reason we sold.
 
We've been members at OKW since 1994, & like others, have never had any issues booking at 11 months out. Additionally of the years we've switched out at 7 months to other resorts usually with no issues. Occasionally, we've been put on a wait list that the majority of times have come through. Most recently (2 weeks ago) we were able to book a 1 Bedroom (wanted a studio) for mid December with no problems. So I guess over the last 20+ we've been very lucky when DVC making reservations. ::yes::
 
Is the DVC setup such that no matter how many resorts/rooms there are it will always be about the same difficulty to make a reservation? I'm asking because though some room types and seasons book up right away we have had good success when we are flexible and even when we waitlist.

DVC is not set up so that there will always be the same difficulty (or ease) to make a reservation. A point system that allows any member to choose any time of year to go is, by design, something that can create availability issues during higher demand times of year. You are aware of some seasons that are harder to get than others and all Disney needs to do in the future is create new events or change dates on old ones to effect major shifts in "seasonal" demand. When DVC started Oct was one of the least demanded times of the year. With Food & Wine and additon of month long Halloween events, it eventually became one of the highest demand times. Time beginning the Friday after President's Day was a very low DVC demand time until Disney created the Princess half marathon for that weekend and now that weekend is the highest demand time between mid-Jan and mid-Sep. You could easily have a dramatic shift in DVC demand tomorrow if you woke up to an announcement by Disney that it was changing Food & Wine to February and March.

Disney can also quickly change demand by reallocation of points, which it can do to alleviate over or under demand for rooms or days or times of the year. It cannot raise the total number of points applicable to a resort but it can increase the number needed for some rooms or seasons while doing an equivalent decrease for other rooms or seasons. Five years ago, and over a two year period, it dramatically lowered the number of points needed for weekend nights while raising them for weekdays. Until then, the demand for weekdays greatly exceeded that for weekends year round, e.g., during high demand Oct and during the first two weeks of Dec, it was still fairly easy to find near park resort rooms for the weekend even at 7 months out. With that change, the demand for weekends moved closer to the demand for weekdays, and although for many times of year weekdays are still somewhat higher, demand for a weekend like Columbus Day weekend rose to the point that it is now among the highest demand times of the year. A few years ago, it raised the points needed for treehouses by about 15% year round while lowering those needed for other SSR rooms (all of which needed only minor decreases to equalize total points because they greatly outnumber the treehouses), with the resuolt that treehouses quickly went from being rooms that had become difficult to get at some times even close to 11 months out and nearly impossible at 7 month out to rooms that are now readily available 7 months out, and even beyond, most of the year.

Demand can also change dramatically, particularly at 7 months out, when a new resort is sold. Before SSR, near park resorts at WDW were often easy to get at 7 months out and even well beyond many times of the year. The addition of SSR resulted in its owners having 40% of all DVC points that existed at the time (even today it is almost a quarter of all points for all resorts) with the result that demand at 7 months out for other resorts, particularly BWV, BCV and VWL, increased significantly to the point that anything still available at 7 months out could disappear quickly once the 7 month window opened. AKV has also increased near park resort demand at 7 months out.

Currently the highest demand quarter is late Sep to marathon weekend in Jan and demand for that quarter makes most of the rest of the year seem like a long off season, including for the holidays during that off-season. Though the first two weeks of Dec and Thanksgiving and Christmas were always high demand times, other times in that quarter were less so and demand has increased partly as a result of things mentioned above such as seasonal events and its lower point costs. But it also increased by a change in demographics. In the 1990s and early 2000's, most DVC owners were families who followed their kids' school schedules for vacations. Now, there is a huge contingent of older DVC members, sans children, who can easily go in the Fall at other than holiday times.That shift in demographics will continue particularly now as the population that purchased SSR becomes mostly older adults with children no longer in school, which should intensify the Fall demand even more.

Seven years ago there was seldom a concern about getting a reservation exactly 11 months out except on occassion for BCV and BWV standard view during first week of Dec or time around NYE. Now the issue is arising with several room classes and over more times. Part of that is a just a factor of Disney creating more room categories that are in high demand but low supply. AKV club level studios (and as a result also 2BRs) are the obivous example with only 5 2BR lock-offs and it has issues at 11 monts out much of the year as a result. But the issue also exists with AKV value studios for which there are 20 possible rooms but very low point costs, BLT standard view for studios (and resulting 2BR lock-offs) in particular but also at times 1 BRs and dedicated 2BRs, BWV boardwalk view studios (and 2BR lock-offs) at times, and VGF studios. With VGF, the issue was created by Disney by selling a resort with a very high price per point and points needed per night with only 47 studios, compared to 147 other possible but larger rooms. Most bought enough points to get studios. Studio demand has alsways been the highest demand at any resort but with VGF, it dwarfs the demand for all the other sized rooms combined. We are now seeing elevated levels of competition at exactly 11 months out not just early Dec or time around NYE but during portions of Oct, early Nov, and marathon weekend in Jan. The cause is partly the continuing increase in demand for Fall time. It is also just partly due to DVC members now being far more informed about high demand times because of the addition of online booking and the resort availability tool, and thus more and more are taking the safe course of booking 11 months out or, in the case of some, walking reservations. However, another factor adding to increased demand at 11 months out is the growth of members seeking only studios at all the resorts. During the last 7 years, Disney has dropped minimum required purchases by new members from 160 to at times 100 and even as low as 50. Therre were also over the years a huge number of add-on contracts requiring a purchase of no more than 25 points. Fifteen years ago, the resale market on the internet was in its infancy, and it was difficult for an owner to sell outside of the internet (and that is still true). The internet market has grown over the years to a major force making resales easy to accomplish. The easiest contracts to sell, and ones in highest demand, are lower point contracts. The combination of low point add-ons that could be sold, lower point requirements for new purchasers, and the rise of internet sales of low point contracts has led to more and more owners at all the resorts having enough points to reserve only studios, and it is the excessive demand for studios that accounts for the bulk pf the problem that has developed for reservations even at 11 months out.

Bottom line: do not assume current demand patterns will remain the same. Demand for Fall and studios is likley to get more intense. The times when reservations may be difficult at 11 months out could increase. There could even be a major shift in seasonal demand just by Disney' creating new, or changing the dates of prior, special events. Disney could do point shifts that also cause significant changes in seasonal or room type demand. It could build another SSR and getting anything at 7 months out at near park resorts could become difficult even during lower demand times. Flexibility in time of travel, room size, and willingness to go to wait list should give you the maximum of options but the options that will come through with that strategy may decrease as time progresses.
 
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