Six Flags changing their version of DAS is Disney next?

ArielRae · Oct 7, 2015

Just got my season pass newsletter from my local Six Flags and in it they discuss changing their Attractions Access Pass which is there version of DAS on November 7th. They will now require you to show a doctors note when making your request for one. I thought this was illegal thru the Americans With Disabilities Act. I am guessing they are getting around this by asking that

The note must NOT describe or indicate the nature of the disability.

Link to Six Flags article
https://www.sixflags.com/greatadven...ail&utm_campaign=SFGAd&utm_content=2015-10-07

wilkeliza · Oct 7, 2015

ArielRae said:
Just got my season pass newsletter from my local Six Flags and in it they discuss changing their Attractions Access Pass which is there version of DAS on November 7th. They will now require you to show a doctors note when making your request for one. I thought this was illegal thru the Americans With Disabilities Act. I am guessing they are getting around this by asking that

The note must NOT describe or indicate the nature of the disability.

Link to Six Flags article
https://www.sixflags.com/greatadven...ail&utm_campaign=SFGAd&utm_content=2015-10-07

They have a team of lawyers making sure they aren't breaking the ADA laws. I don't think Disney will follow suit unless they have to revamp DAS after the lawsuit finally sees its way through the court system.

I always wondered why a doctor's note was breaking ADA if you need something like that for a handicap parking pass. You can't just go to the DMV and ask for one.

gap2368 · Oct 7, 2015

Looks like I will not be going back to 6 flags they give you a 15 minute grace period and with me that dose not work most of the time

lanejudy · Oct 7, 2015

They can ask for "proof" if the disabled person is considered to be receiving a more than equal accommodation. That's why the DMV is allowed to require documentation, a handicapped placard offers closer parking spaces that are not available to the non-disabled. I'm not familiar enough with Six Flags parks and/or their prior Equal Access Pass vs the new Attraction Access Pass -- but I would assume there is some degree of expectation it is going to provide better access than the non-disabled. Maybe it's the use of the alternative entrance and proceed immediately to boarding. Maybe it's the reservation system in general, if Six Flags doesn't have a version similar to FP+ for the non-disabled to make ride reservations.

wilkeliza · Oct 7, 2015

lanejudy said:
They can ask for "proof" if the disabled person is considered to be receiving a more than equal accommodation. That's why the DMV is allowed to require documentation, a handicapped placard offers closer parking spaces that are not available to the non-disabled. I'm not familiar enough with Six Flags parks and/or their prior Equal Access Pass vs the new Attraction Access Pass -- but I would assume there is some degree of expectation it is going to provide better access than the non-disabled. Maybe it's the use of the alternative entrance and proceed immediately to boarding. Maybe it's the reservation system in general, if Six Flags doesn't have a version similar to FP+ for the non-disabled to make ride reservations.

If Six Flags hasn't changed too much their "fast pass" service is paid for. You pay for a flash pass and then you get to ride at a certain time. The more you pay the more perks you get. It is similar to Universals Express Pass. It is kind of hard to explain because there are some that only work for say a 3 hour period and some that work all day and some that let you ride 2 times in a row with out waiting. If anyone would be changing to something similar I would imagine it would be Universal since their system works more in line with Six Flags than Disney's does.

gap2368 · Oct 7, 2015

wilkeliza said:
If Six Flags hasn't changed too much their "fast pass" service is paid for. You pay for a flash pass and then you get to ride at a certain time. The more you pay the more perks you get. It is similar to Universals Express Pass. It is kind of hard to explain because there are some that only work for say a 3 hour period and some that work all day and some that let you ride 2 times in a row with out waiting. If anyone would be changing to something similar I would imagine it would be Universal since their system works more in line with Six Flags than Disney's does.

This might be why they are doing the prof of disability

OurBigTrip · Oct 7, 2015

lanejudy said:
They can ask for "proof" if the disabled person is considered to be receiving a more than equal accommodation. That's why the DMV is allowed to require documentation, a handicapped placard offers closer parking spaces that are not available to the non-disabled. I'm not familiar enough with Six Flags parks and/or their prior Equal Access Pass vs the new Attraction Access Pass -- but I would assume there is some degree of expectation it is going to provide better access than the non-disabled. Maybe it's the use of the alternative entrance and proceed immediately to boarding. Maybe it's the reservation system in general, if Six Flags doesn't have a version similar to FP+ for the non-disabled to make ride reservations.

At the link it says that with the pass, the disabled guest and three companions go to the ride, get a return time equal to the standby wait, and then return to the alternate entrance and go directly to the boarding area. It says that they will wait the same amount of time as non-disabled guests, but won't have to wait in the line. It also states that for parties larger than four, everyone else has to wait in the regular queue.

OurBigTrip · Oct 7, 2015

I'll be curious to see what happens...seems to be more restrictive than the DAS, and a doctor's note will be required.

Wonder if Six Flags will be sued as well.

bookwormde · Oct 7, 2015

This is clearly outside current ADA guidance and practice for equivalent accommodations so they must have other accommodations that do not require a note, I am sure OCR will be reviewing quickly

Gracie09 · Oct 7, 2015

bookwormde said:
This is clearly outside current ADA guidance and practice for equivalent accommodations so they must have other accommodations that do not require a note, I am sure OCR will be reviewing quickly

I am sure their attorneys have reviewed the relevant laws and fashioned a policy that is not clearly outside of ads guidelines. They view the program as offering something that is more than equal. Just in a quick reading it does not state that a person cannot hold more than pass at a time. So the ability to line up multiple return times is a benefit not afforded to the average person. Even the ability to wait outside the li e can be viewed as more than equal because someone can do something else while waiting for their turn. Something not available to the average person

bookwormde · Oct 7, 2015

I doubt they have dedicated disability attorneys on staff so I think you assumption may be a bit of a reach. I have dealt with quite a number of businesses and even governmental entities who made decisions without this specialty advice The point is that they must have equivalent accommodations, and it appears that they have relied on their version of DAS in the past even though it may provide additional benefits. Maybe they are getting ready to roll out another methodology that they have not announced, but if they do not by the time this goes into effect they will certainly be "dinged" by OCR

Gracie09 · Oct 7, 2015

bookwormde said:
I doubt they have dedicated disability attorneys on staff so I think you assumption may be a bit of a reach. I have dealt with quite a number of businesses and even governmental entities who made decisions without this specialty advice The point is that they must have equivalent accommodations, and it appears that they have relied on their version of DAS in the past even though it may provide additional benefits. Maybe they are getting ready to roll out another methodology that they have not announced, but if they do not by the time this goes into effect they will certainly be "dinged" by OCR

A corporation the size of six flags probably does have an Atty on staff that handles disability claims but even besides that they have outside counsel. Just because something offered benefits in the past there is nothing saying they have to continue to offer the same benefits. Not every change is a violation of the ada

aaarcher86 · Oct 7, 2015

Doesn't OCR deal with educational discrimination?

Gracie09 · Oct 7, 2015

aaarcher86 said:
Doesn't OCR deal with educational discrimination?

Yes it does. And education laws are very different than general accommodation laws

the advocate · Oct 7, 2015

ArielRae said:
They will now require you to show a doctors note when making your request for one.

Wow! I really like this idea and if sanctioned by Disney, it will help eliminate the abuse of the "invisible disability", in particular, those parents who use their children's mild sensory disorders to score a DAS. I am sure many doctors view the challenges of managing a queue as therapeutic for these children and would deny a parent such a letter.

SueM in MN · Oct 7, 2015

bookwormde said:
This is clearly outside current ADA guidance and practice for equivalent accommodations so they must have other accommodations that do not require a note, I am sure OCR will be reviewing quickly

the ADA does allow for requiring proof if the accommodation given is something that is not available to other guests or is something other guests would have to pay for.

Disney's Fastpass Plus is a free benefit that is available to all guests.
The Flashpass at Six Flags is a paid service that provides certain benefits. The type/amount of benefits is dependent on how much the guest pays.
https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/store/flash-pass

Because of they are making a benefit available that would otherwise be paid for, they can require a doctor's note without getting in trouble with ADA compliance. People with disabilities and their doctor have to fill out a form asserting they have a qualifying disability to get most accommodations that would otherwise be charged for.
Some other examples of services that require 'proof' of disability:

- Handicapped parking passes are not available to other drivers.

- American National Parks have a program providing free park access for guests with proof of disability.
Other guests have to pay for park entry.

- Paratransit is a handicapped accessible bus service for qualifies people with disabilities who are not able to ride regular public transit. Accessible buses come to the handicapped person's home or place of business to pick them up.

All of these are examples of programs that legally ask for proof because the accommodation they are giving is something of value that would be desired by other people.

aaarcher86 · Oct 7, 2015

the advocate said:
Wow! I really like this idea and if sanctioned by Disney, it will help eliminate the abuse of the "invisible disability", in particular, those parents who use their children's mild sensory disorders to score a DAS. I am sure many doctors view the challenges of managing a queue as therapeutic for these children and would deny a parent such a letter.

I disagree. Tons of docs were willing to right notes to "skip lines."

There was a recent thread last week where a doc offered it up to their patient.

wilkeliza · Oct 7, 2015

aaarcher86 said:
I disagree. Tons of docs were willing to right notes to "skip lines."

There was a recent thread last week where a doc offered it up to their patient.

That is big in NYC. Slip your doctor and extra $100 and you can get an emotional support animal script with no problem. There were also known doctors in the city who would write notes for GAC even though they weren't needed.

bookwormde · Oct 8, 2015

SueM in MN said:
the ADA does allow for requiring proof if the accommodation given is something that is not available to other guests or is something other guests would have to pay for.

Disney's Fastpass Plus is a free benefit that is available to all guests.
The Flashpass at Six Flags is a paid service that provides certain benefits. The type/amount of benefits is dependent on how much the guest pays.
https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/store/flash-pass

Because of they are making a benefit available that would otherwise be paid for, they can require a doctor's note without getting in trouble with ADA compliance. People with disabilities and their doctor have to fill out a form asserting they have a qualifying disability to get most accommodations that would otherwise be charged for.
Some other examples of services that require 'proof' of disability:

- Handicapped parking passes are not available to other drivers.

- American National Parks have a program providing free park access for guests with proof of disability.
Other guests have to pay for park entry.

- Paratransit is a handicapped accessible bus service for qualifies people with disabilities who are not able to ride regular public transit. Accessible buses come to the handicapped person's home or place of business to pick them up.

All of these are examples of programs that legally ask for proof because the accommodation they are giving is something of value that would be desired by other people.

Sue,

The examples you give are all governmental services or authorizations, which where "approved" within very narrow guidelines and mostly involve waiver of fees. I have never seen any such exemptions under Title III.

The point is that if they are going to go outside the title III guidelines and practices for their fast past usage for ADA accommodation they must have accommodations that stay within title III in its place (that do not require documentation as a general practice).

SueM in MN · Oct 8, 2015

Universal has had 2 levels of their version of the Guest Assistance Card for many years.
One level is more like DAS and does not require any documentation.
The other level is access thru their version of the Fastpass line (Express Pass). This is a service other guests would need to pay for and does require documentation of disability by a physician.
For many years, Sea World has had availability of a discount for guests with qualifying disabilities who provide documentation of disability from their physician.

Six Flags changing their version of DAS is Disney next?

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