Pete's Rant Today: Political Correctness

Spot on Pete. Lets start a write in campaign PETE FOR PRESIDENT!!!

Let's start with President of WDW. If he can do for Disney what he's done for his own company, then we can look at the Oval Office.

G.Goof said:

Let's start with President of WDW. If he can do for Disney what he's done for his own company, then we can look at the Oval Office.

Click to expand...

I'd go for that. Yes. Yes.

PurpleKomodo said:

I agree with everything Pete said today, but I have found myself disappointed in Disney in merchandise for boys. I have an almost 3 year old boy who LOVES princess movies and shows! There are no products for boys from Sophia the First. NO costumes of the boy characters. Same with the princess movies. We went in the Beauty and the Beast shop after Enchanted Tales with Belle and I almost spent my life's savings because they actual had Beauty and the Beast stuff for boys! Beast shirts! Gaston swords! It was awesome! Where is that merchandise in Disney Stores and department stores? There are girly toys for every Disney Junior show, but that is not the case for boys. It is a little frustrating. I have no problem buying my son a princess shirt, but they are even cut different and I don't want anyone to make him feel ashamed for liking what he likes.

Click to expand...

I completely agree about the merchandise problems. I think for the most part, Disney does a good job of inclusiveness, but I think the merchandise for kids is really disappointing. Not only the lack of good princess merch for boys, but the princess merch for girls is pretty one-dimensional. I wish it wasn't ALL just the hyper-glammed-up versions of these characters. There's nothing wrong with a little glitz and glamor, but reducing those characters to just that is disappointing to me. Belle was a bookworm, Merida prefers archery to ballgowns, Mulan FOUGHT IN A WAR for goodness sake! And you get some things. Like Ryno said, there is that sword & shield (which is great) and you can get Merida's bow. But most of what you find in the t-shirts, toys, etc. is the super fancy dress that they spent maybe 30% of the movie wearing (and in Mulan's case, she hated the way she looked in it so much that she SANG A WHOLE SONG ABOUT IT AND IT WAS THE CRUX OF HER CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT okay I'm done). I just wish there was more diversity in the princess merch, because I love those characters so much. Certainly I don't want them to get rid of the pink and the fanciness (I like that stuff too), but just broaden it a little.

Along the same line, when I went into the Marvel store, I think I found one t-shirt that had Black Widow on it. More Avengers t-shirts had SPIDER-MAN on them than Black Widow. I love Spidey, but it still made me so mad. Girls and boys like Marvel, girls and boys like princesses, and it just baffles me that Disney doesn't seem to want ALL their money haha.

PurpleKomodo said:

I agree with everything Pete said today, but I have found myself disappointed in Disney in merchandise for boys. I have an almost 3 year old boy who LOVES princess movies and shows! There are no products for boys from Sophia the First. NO costumes of the boy characters. Same with the princess movies. We went in the Beauty and the Beast shop after Enchanted Tales with Belle and I almost spent my life's savings because they actual had Beauty and the Beast stuff for boys! Beast shirts! Gaston swords! It was awesome! Where is that merchandise in Disney Stores and department stores? There are girly toys for every Disney Junior show, but that is not the case for boys. It is a little frustrating. I have no problem buying my son a princess shirt, but they are even cut different and I don't want anyone to make him feel ashamed for liking what he likes.

Click to expand...

While it doesn't solve the cut issue, Disney might be starting to get wise. A month ago there's a windows in Disneyland with a little bit mannequin in Minnie Mouse everything.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...nder_non_conforming_mannequin_in_store_window

rmm7e said:

I don't disagree with his rant in general, but I do think some of the alternate suggestions the "kids" gave were cute. I think if they were the product of brainstorming between the kids and their parents or teachers, as a lesson in problem solving and constructive criticism, rather than PC-ness, they were pretty good. I mean, they didn't just complain without offering alternatives. I'd love to see Disney's response, if they got one.

Click to expand...

I agree with you. I'm not so sure 3rd graders didn't write this. My son is now in 5th grade, but I have tried to raise him to have a voice over things that concern him, and he was certainly literate enough to write a letter on par with this when he was in the third grade. He is an only child and has always been talked to in an "adult" manner, as well as being a bookworm his entire life, so his sentence structure and vocabulary are fairly advanced. Had he mentioned this as a concern, and I could see it being a concern as we are constantly talking about other cultures, stereotypes, etc, I would have encouraged him to write a letter. It may not be sophisticated or totally ideal, but that would not have been the point... the point would have been that I am trying to encourage him to feel like he has a voice in our culture, and to speak up if he sees something that he views as wrong. I definitely agree with a lot of what Pete said, but I took a little bit of umbrage with him stating that this is reverse racism. (No, I wasn't OFFENDED LOL ) I think the point the kiddos were trying to make about stereotypes is that when one and only one viewpoint is represented for an entire culture, it can be perceived as a stereotype. Yes, that may have been part of the culture of the Congo... but it wasn't the entire culture, and we didn't get any other type of representation. I am not saying I was/am offended by this, but I can see where they were coming from, and I admire the fact that they did something about it in writing a letter. They (meaning adults/teachers that assisted) probably didn't think it would go "viral" or that they would get any response other than a form letter in return, but did use it as a chance to explore encouraging the children to address what they have perceived as a stereotype. And like you mentioned, they came up with some solutions, which I thought were pretty well thought out!
I believe I am fairly moderate as well, but when a culture is going through social change, often it needs to swing to the extreme before any change can occur... once it has been made more mainstream, then it will swing back to the moderate side again. It's ok to always be aware of how we are presenting to others... not walk on eggshells, per se, but to be aware that, as Pete mentioned, our reality may be totally different from someone else's reality. I had to laugh at the above poster who stated he was white, male, and Christian, but CHOOSES not to get offended. Well, when you have not been affected by ongoing racism, lack of representation, and persecution as a whole, it is a little easier to make that choice. When you have directly experienced any of those three, it becomes a little less easier to just "choose" to not get offended. I don't think we are anywhere NEAR in danger of boys feeling weird for liking blue or girls feeling weird for liking pink.
We all probably have sticking points that we feel are unacceptable moving forward in society. It's always funny to me how people think their views on what is offensive is valid, but if they don't agree with someone else on what they feel is offensive, then that person is over-sensitive and should choose to not be offended. (Not saying this is what has happened here, just in my personal experience.) Overall I did think the subject was done in a very thought-provoking manner and I found myself agreeing with some points and disagreeing with others. I love the podcast - you just never know what you are going to hear from week to week!!!

The thing is Keri, the kids weren't saying that different representations of the people of the Congo get represented (which still would be wrong because it's a scene depicting natives, what more can they do but be true to that part of the culture?) they said because they're all brown they should diversify it with white people. They aren't the same thing

Princess Jes said:

The thing is Keri, the kids weren't saying that different representations of the people of the Congo get represented (which still would be wrong because it's a scene depicting natives, what more can they do but be true to that part of the culture?) they said because they're all brown they should diversify it with white people. They aren't the same thing

Click to expand...

I didn't hear that. I heard them say they should replace them with monkeys throwing rotten fruit. I thought that was a cute solution.

rmm7e said:

I didn't hear that. I heard them say they should replace them with monkeys throwing rotten fruit. I thought that was a cute solution.

Click to expand...

My apologies! It must have been pete that mentioned it? (I'm re-listening now)
However, how do you think the story would go if they replaced black skinned natives with monkeys? The connection would still be there and that would lead to a worse situation if you ask me.
At the moment in australia, there is a big drama with a football player who is aboriginal and aside from the fact that he is, he's also a big tool. He provokes the crowd to boo him and when they do, he pulls the race card. It's disgusting. They aren't booing him because he's aboriginal, they're doing it because he's an outright **censored**.
He has also been provoked though, by people in the crowd and on social media calling him a monkey. And that part is wrong. Whether he does or doesn't look like a monkey, it's considered derogatory because a monkey is a "lesser primate" than humans and he's taking it that way rather than being based on pure physical looks alone.
The team likened Sarah Jessica Parker to a horse and a foot, but she's not black, so it's not racist, but call a black man a monkey, and it is.

So, based on that, I can see worse backlash by replacing indigenous people with monkeys.

Princess Jes said:

My apologies! It must have been pete that mentioned it? (I'm re-listening now)
However, how do you think the story would go if they replaced black skinned natives with monkeys? The connection would still be there and that would lead to a worse situation if you ask me.
At the moment in australia, there is a big drama with a football player who is aboriginal and aside from the fact that he is, he's also a big tool. He provokes the crowd to boo him and when they do, he pulls the race card. It's disgusting. They aren't booing him because he's aboriginal, they're doing it because he's an outright d-bag.
He has also been provoked though, by people in the crowd and on social media calling him a monkey. And that part is wrong. Whether he does or doesn't look like a monkey, it's considered derogatory because a monkey is a "lesser primate" than humans and he's taking it that way rather than being based on pure physical looks alone.
The team likened Sarah Jessica Parker to a horse and a foot, but she's not black, so it's not racist, but call a black man a monkey, and it is.

So, based on that, I can see worse backlash by replacing indigenous people with monkeys.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, I totally understand your point of view, and I agree with you that replacing them with monkeys (if anything needs to be replaced - I don't think it does) would create more of a stir than leaving it alone. However, and this is truly not based upon anything other than what I would have done in a similar situation as a parent or teacher, I do not think the 3rd graders really thought it through that far. I really think this is a case of children identifying something that FOR THEM was problematic and taking a stand, along with some proffered solutions. If my son had identified the problem, I would encourage him come up with solutions he felt were viable and write the letter. I would not have corrected his solutions - they are HIS solutions and again, I'm trying to teach him to use his voice for social change. Were they solutions that an adult might come up with? Nope, because if your read it at face value, these were written by children. I don't have any evidence that these really were written by children, but neither do we have evidence that they weren't.

I guess what I really puzzle over is the offense that people take about other people get offended! LOL I understand that these rides, etc, are iconic and fans don't want them changed, but if it is not something that really affects you, why be offended if someone else takes offense? (Not saying that is what is occurring here, but having grown up in a state with a large Native American population, I can't remember how many times people got all up in arms over the fact that the Native American population wanted to change the Squaw names on the maps... and these were people that had nothing to do with the land, nothing to do with the tribes, they just didn't want people changing things that had been that way "when [they] were growing up.") Again, I really don't think the "average" audience is in danger of losing representation in the parks, or anywhere else in the US, for that matter. We are a long way from the "white room."

I understand that these children weren't part of the Congo either (that we know of) and it most likely would be different if someone from these tribes were expressing offense, but I really do feel like this is less a situation of "over the top political correctness" and more children who identified a problem and sought a solution. When I was in elementary school I read an article about apartheid in my Sassy magazine (remember Sassy?! Probably not! LOL). I had never encountered the idea of apartheid before and I was appalled. My mom encouraged me to write a letter to our President of the US (Ronald Reagan! LOL) and I did. She sent it and I did get a return (form) letter. I was thrilled. I still have both letters, and when I read the letter I wrote, I am embarrassed by how much I simplified the issue and how I co-opted the indignation, but that one act of writing to my president and receiving a letter in return probably helped me determine the kind of social activist I want to be. I hate to discourage these kids by reading too much into this.

lolz, 3rd graders didn't write that. The parents wrote it after putting these thoughts in their kids minds, sent it and hoped it would gain traction by making it seem like kids wrote it.

Completely agree with everything that Pete had to say. I consider myself left wing but left wing with common sence, seems lately like people want to find offence in every little detail, that is no way to live.

Honestly I think the weirdest part of all this was the tangent about Sarah Jessica-Parker looking like a foot/horse, even though it was before the speech and as such might be considered off-topic, though I feel it is connected. It struck me as strange since the general idea of the PC speech was about celebrating diversity and togetherness. I'm not sure that talking about someone in that way really helped their message of "equality for everyone". It shouldn't matter what someone looks like, just like it shouldn't matter what colour, gender or sexual orientation they are. Sure it was all in fun but why does the fun have to be at someone else's expense, especially when the main talking point of the day was treating everyone the same, no matter what. I just thought it needed to be said

Replacing the natives with monkeys reminds me of when they changed Pirates to be PC. Instead of the men chasing the women, now the women chase the men. Apparently that's more socially acceptable. Of course, the auction still features the redhead as the preferred object of the bidders' desires.

Eilavamp said:

Honestly I think the weirdest part of all this was the tangent about Sarah Jessica-Parker looking like a foot/horse, even though it was before the speech and as such might be considered off-topic, though I feel it is connected. It struck me as strange since the general idea of the PC speech was about celebrating diversity and togetherness. I'm not sure that talking about someone in that way really helped their message of "equality for everyone". It shouldn't matter what someone looks like, just like it shouldn't matter what colour, gender or sexual orientation they are. Sure it was all in fun but why does the fun have to be at someone else's expense, especially when the main talking point of the day was treating everyone the same, no matter what. I just thought it needed to be said

Click to expand...

While i wasn't OFFENDED or anything, his mini rant on Sarah Jessica Parker was weird and out of place. I know the joke of what comedians say she looks like, but yeesh. He kept saying it over and over. Seemed less funny coming from Pete for some reason. (and this is coming from someone who loves insult comics )

disneysteve said:

Of course, the auction still features the redhead as the preferred object of the bidders' desires.

Click to expand...

That's because redheads are desirable <3 I laughed at the women chasing men change. I'm a feminist, and it just seemed odd. It, like the Jungle Cruise Congo natives argument, is true to the facts. Pirates did steal women. You can't change history, no matter how you try to doctor it. These things HAPPENED. I personally find it weird that Disney would rather change things to silence the few people who have a problem, rather than stick to the integrity of the original attraction.

Hunterr said:

While i wasn't OFFENDED or anything, his mini rant on Sarah Jessica Parker was weird and out of place. I know the joke of what comedians say she looks like, but yeesh. He kept saying it over and over. Seemed less funny coming from Pete for some reason. (and this is coming from someone who loves insult comics )

Click to expand...

Hunterr I completely agree! I'm glad I wasn't chewed out for speaking out against Pete people seem pretty rabidly loyal! He's great, and usually on point, I just think he missed the mark this time. Ah well.

disneysteve said:

Replacing the natives with monkeys reminds me of when they changed Pirates to be PC. Instead of the men chasing the women, now the women chase the men. Apparently that's more socially acceptable. Of course, the auction still features the redhead as the preferred object of the bidders' desires.

Click to expand...

And - if I may interject - it "makes fun of" the fat lady chasing the man - being a larger person - IF I were easily offended - I would be.

Pete once again crushed it. I'm pretty left-wing on everything, but Pete nailed the problems on political correctness.

I was surprised to hear him say he's become more moderate. With the exception of Blackfish, I don't think I've ever heard him utter anything remotely conservative.

Princess Jes said:

However, how do you think the story would go if they replaced black skinned natives with monkeys? The connection would still be there and that would lead to a worse situation if you ask me.

Click to expand...

I hadn't really thought of it this way, but now that I think about it, I think you may be on to something. Although the scene with the gorillas who pillage the camp site don't seem to draw any undue attention. Maybe some realistic howler monkeys throwing objects wouldn't be seen as racist. But as soon as the monkeys get too anthropomorphic, then it would cause a firestorm.

In any event, I think that Pete did a great job. That said, I have to admit that I do find the spear chucking "natives" to be a bit over the top. They are a direct replica of what Disney built at DLR, and that was build in the '50's. So what we have in 2015 is a carryover from 1955 sensitivities. And things were a whole lot different then. (And the same could be said for 1971). Sometimes, I think that a test for political correctness should be: "If we were starting from scratch, and a certain thing didn't yet exist, would we create it today?" When I talk to people who try to defend the use of the name "Redskins" for the Washington football team, and I ask them that question, they all have to concede that, no, that name and mascot would never even get suggested let alone approved by the NFL ownership today. So if that is the case, then why perpetuate it? If one were designing the Jungle Cruise today, would the Imagineers include spear chucking natives? I suppose it is debatable, but I personally doubt it. I think there is a difference between "political correctness" and "adjusting to today's norms". Perhaps the difference is a very fine line. But I associate the former with cowering to the demands of an overly sensitive sliver of the population and the latter with conforming to more mainstream societal ideals. 99% of what Pete talked about was right on. But I think that the spear throwers probably cross the line from "an image that is offensive to an overly sensitive sliver of the population" to "an image that would never have been implemented today if the attraction were being designed from scratch". It wouldn't pain me to see that go.

KingLlama said:

Pete walked a tightrope today, in terms of the subject matter, and did a great job.

Click to expand...

which is more a problem of our society