.

disneysteve · Jul 18, 2015

Princess Jes said:
I can see Pete coming on the show this week and having a rant about how people have been keyboard warriors on YouTube and announce a bonus for his team members (referring to the episode after Craig and Shaun got ripped into about their Maleficent review)

I'm also waiting for Pete to go off on all of the comments posted on facebook about the parents of the child who drowned at AoA the other day. It might be a very interesting show on Tuesday if he decides to address this stuff.

Tonyz · Jul 18, 2015

Princess Jes said:
I can see Pete coming on the show this week and having a rant about how people have been keyboard warriors on YouTube and announce a bonus for his team members (referring to the episode after Craig and Shaun got ripped into about their Maleficent review)

Seemed like a good deal to me!

OKW Lover · Jul 18, 2015

JimmyV said:
There is nothing improper with secession in and of itself. Our Constitution provides for its possibility.

Hmm. I don't recall any provision for a state to leave the union. I'll have to re-read the constitution I guess.

Tom P. · Jul 18, 2015

OKW Lover said:
Hmm. I don't recall any provision for a state to leave the union. I'll have to re-read the constitution I guess.

There is no specific provision in the Constitution regarding secession. However, remember that in the United States, the states are the key players who formed the union with the federal government being subservient to them. If you read the Constitution, it becomes very clear that the states are saying "we're going to give these specific powers to the federal government since we think those are best done on a national level, but we can always take them back or change them down the road." It's the reason why states have the option, although never exercised, to call a convention and amend the Constitution without the consent of Congress. So, yes, I think states do in theory have the right to secede.

However, in practice, I realize that it is not likely to ever happen. In the case of the Civil War, there was a heck of a lot more going on than a debate about whether or not a state could leave the union. We were literally fighting a war over the basic human rights of an entire race. So despite my position that states do theoretically have a right to leave, I'm glad that the North stood up for the rights of those people, albeit belatedly, and fought the war that freed them. I'm also quite happy that the North and the South reunited into what became an even stronger union.

In modern times, there would be no good practical way for a state to secede either. If Nevada, for example, said "we want out," how are you going to accomplish that in practical terms? They're surrounded by member states of the United States. If a foreign country decides to attack them, do we let their bombers just fly over California because, hey, Nevada's on their own? No. Realistically, we'd still be on the hook for defending them because it would still be in our national security interested to do so. Then suppose Idaho and Montana said "we're going with Nevada". Do we now have to negotiate international treaties to get goods from Nebraska to California? Just can't see how it could happen in practical terms.

JimmyV · Jul 18, 2015

OKW Lover said:
Hmm. I don't recall any provision for a state to leave the union. I'll have to re-read the constitution I guess.

It is silent. And if it isn't prohibited, then it is permitted. Provided that the states agree. See Texas v. White.

mytripsandraces · Jul 19, 2015

wdwscout said:
I had no problem with the Confederate flag hanging in the American Adventure as part of the "history of the flags of our country."

I definitely DID/DO have an issue with the Confederate Battle Flag being flown on any government property. The flag that was recently removed in South Carolina has NOT flown there since the Civil War out of history/pride of their past. That flag was raised on the SC Capitol building in 1961 as a PROTEST to desegregation. For that reason, I am very happy that the flag is no longer on government property.

The confederate flag was never a flag of our country. It was the battle flag of an enemy combatant. It has no business hanging over government buildings, state or federal, any more than the flags of the UK, Canada, Mexico, France, etc.

marinejjh said:
Cosby, whatever happened until innecient until proven guilty. Like Pete Rose betting on baseball, didn't have anything to do with his record.

Cosby confessed his guilt 10 years ago, so no further proof is required.

Do you really think that betting on baseball is equal to sexually assaulting dozens of women?

OKW Lover · Jul 19, 2015

JimmyV said:
It is silent. And if it isn't prohibited, then it is permitted. Provided that the states agree. See Texas v. White.

Presuming you mean the 1869 case, it sounds to me (a non-lawyer) that that decision very much said that the union is insoluble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

WebmasterMike · Jul 20, 2015

George Santayana once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

There is a great amount of "past" to remember.

I think @Sarabi's Cubs has the "Mic drop" moment in this discussion. You go, Laurie!

JimmyV · Jul 20, 2015

OKW Lover said:
Presuming you mean the 1869 case, it sounds to me (a non-lawyer) that that decision very much said that the union is insoluble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

To the contrary. The majority opinion states:

"The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States." Texas v. White (1869)

And this only makes sense. Suppose a state truly decided to divorce itself from the United States. It stopped sending representatives to Congress. It stopped holding elections for the office of President. It formed its own State Guard as its army. At that point, the rest of the states would have little choice except to send troops into that state to overthrow the state government and re-establish order, or vote to allow the state to achieve its goal of dissolution. The concept of insolubility and perpetual existence makes little sense if the people themselves choose not to play along any more. You can't force government on people who choose not to be governed in that manner. Think about it. "I demand that you send two people to attend the next session of the Senate!" You can't force people to walk into the Capitol at gunpoint and demand that they vote.

Andrea1973 · Jul 20, 2015

loosely speaking... yes slaves would be people that do stuff for you, because that is what they did, they worked the fields, they were maids, they took care of the house, fed the family, they did "stuff" for the land owners by choice or not, how else would you explain it without reciting the dictionary.

How can anyone say with 100% certainty that things discussed over 150 years ago by a bunch of farmers is actually what people are claiming to be true now?
Heck, with all the technology today some posters in this thread quoted the DIS team on certain points, but the quotes were taken out of context and were completely WRONG.

People have exploited and have used others as slaves for others for centuries, and not only in the states. If you don't like that fact, then start by opening your mind to the fact that people of all nationalities, religions and social standings use people to do stuff for them, sometimes legally sometimes illegally, but always immoral. Even inter racially, people use people to get ahead, and it no less acceptable. (but no one typically speaks out about that)

So here is a challenge, next time you see injustice being done (human trafficking, sex workers as examples) then report it and do something about it. If you see a poor person on the street being picked on because they are asking for money, then tell the person that is doing the bugging to get lost, and buy the poor guy on the street a sandwich. You see an immigrant worker and notice they work more then an average work shift/day or per week, maybe causally start conversation and overtime you might realize that this worker is being exploited and then report it.

But don't think that taking down the flag will ever take away the fact that racism, bigotry, and bullying is a way of life, it is a lifestyle choice. Individuals choose to think of others (that are different color, religion or nationality) to be less then they are. It is really baffling to me how people think that removing this flag will change anyone's opinion.

Social inequality runs deeper than a flag or other symbol and it will take understanding, forward thinking and patience to change it. Criticizing, belittling, becoming argumentative and rude will only enrage people even more on both sides. People really are terrible to each other and it is beyond sad what one is willing to do to another to get ahead.

but if

firecracker725 said:
Are you seriously trying to pass slaves off as "people to do stuff for you"?

is what you took away from that then I think you might have bigger issues

Princess Jes · Jul 20, 2015

I think the irony here is that people both on the boards in this thread, and on YouTube, have said that they don't watch/listen to the podcasts to hear about non-disney stuff that people aren't experts on, yet they're happy to do it themselves on a disney forum/YouTube page
(No judgement, just making an observation)

mytripsandraces · Jul 21, 2015

Princess Jes said:
I think the irony here is that people both on the boards in this thread, and on YouTube, have said that they don't watch/listen to the podcasts to hear about non-disney stuff that people aren't experts on, yet they're happy to do it themselves on a disney forum/YouTube page
(No judgement, just making an observation)

Are the same people making those two statements? I haven't read all of the comments and I'm not sure which identities match, so I don't know.

CampbellzSoup · Jul 29, 2015

Due to this weeks podcast and the issues that were brought about I want to reiterate what I said in my original post:

It was awesome to hear the opinions of strong, confident women.

I had no idea it was even and issue...

Klane64 · Jul 30, 2015

If you are not from the south it is hard to understand. I am not racist. I have friends of all race. I went to Ole Miss in the 90's and it represented our school. The media paints a terrible picture of southerners as uneducated, inbread and racist. Yea the south had slaves, yes there was segregation, but that was then. The flag is part of our heritage. The good and the bad. We learn from our past, but we in race the good of our past as well. Hotty Toddy

EPCOTatNight · Jul 30, 2015

Klane64 said:
If you are not from the south it is hard to understand. I am not racist. I have friends of all race. I went to Ole Miss in the 90's and it represented our school. The media paints a terrible picture of southerners as uneducated, inbread and racist. Yea the south had slaves, yes there was segregation, but that was then. The flag is part of our heritage. The good and the bad. We learn from our past, but we in race the good of our past as well. Hotty Toddy

Im from the South and the flag is NOT a part of my heritage.

Hunterr · Jul 30, 2015

Obviously, not everyone who supports the flag isn't racist.
But I do think the those people are, if not misinformed, totally glossing over a major reason why that flag exists. They get so tied up in the SOUTHER HERITAGE part. Yes, we southerners are lovely and all that, but wave around your state flag or something instead.

Or whatever. I don't know.

Ginny Lee · Jul 30, 2015

Hunterr said:
Normally I would agree about Youtube comments, but when it's a niche audience like The Dis, it's not random people stumbling on the video. Some of those commenters probably post here, as well.

Either way, these are still comments from people who watched the show. What shocks me is that they are shocked by the comments. It's like they couldn't imagine people being upset about the video and the comments from You Tube are just about as off-the-wall, mud-fight as you can get. I don't understand why they wanted to enter that ring. And some of their responses to the you tube comments were a little abrasive--I think one was trying to teach a life lesson to a commenter. I'm sorry the opinions were offended by the comments, but what do you expect? Welcome to the internet guys--it's filled with arm-chair warriors and that's the nature of it all. Don't expect knowledgeable and mature discussions, especially on YouTube!!

Hunterr · Jul 30, 2015

What they were doing was no different than what they would have done if those people posted here.
Like I said, those were obviously people who watch the show regularly (if not also board posters).

But yes, the comments section on youtube otherwise is just full of the worst people ever.
It's been hard to avoid looking, but I have gotten better about avoiding comment sections on videos relating to things gay/religious/political/etc.

Everyone is racist or homophobic or ultra conservative and everyone is apparently a part of the illuminati or evil or bla bla bla.

JimmyV · Aug 3, 2015

Klane64 said:
The flag is part of our heritage.

It all depends on how one defines "heritage". As I am sure you know, the Confederate Flag was created after the battle of Manassas, because the original flag flown by the Confederate soldiers was too easily mistaken for the Stars and Stripes of the United States. So a new flag had to be created that would be easily distinguishable. So the flag has no "history" that extends back beyond armed conflict in the effort to secede from the United States. And the flag was largely retired and not a part of any southern tradition until one hundred years later when the Civil Rights Act was being debated. In terms of "heritage", there was about a 4 year period when the flag had some use and meaning to the South. So if fighting a war to secede from the United States in order to protect the economic institution of slavery is one's "heritage", then by all means, claim the flag as your own. You are correct in asserting that racism is not the only thing that the flag stands for. You can add treason to that list as well. Because that is what you call it when a citizen of the United States takes up arms against his or her fellow countrymen and tries to destroy the government. Today, when ISIS or Al Qaeda kills a soldier from Pennsylvania, we understand the hurt. But when a soldier from Mississippi killed a soldier from Pennsylvania in 1864, somehow that is a "heritage" that we should honor. Nope. Not as far as I'm concerned.

.

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