Selling Contract to Get a Better UY

Dean · Jul 29, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
I see what you are saying. The problem is I will have to do banking and a little borrowing anyway because I will be doing the 3 studios only every other year. If I keep my two 50-point contracts, banking will give me 200, but two studios would cost only 140 points. Then if I bank the 60, I wouldn't be going back the next year to use them (except for in May which I don't want to use the June UY pts for that trip). I'm totally used to banking points as that is all we do now. If we have to cancel, we will use them before they expire or rent the reservation. I'm really thinking I don't want to go through the hassle of selling if this will work. Is my thinking off? This is assuming two 50-pt. June UY contracts and one 160-pt. April UY contract.

Year 1: May trip solo-186 pts (use 26 banked/160 current April UY points)

Year 2: early June or October trip with family-268 pts: 3 studios for 5 nights (use 100 banked/100 current/10 borrowed June UY points) + 1 studio for 7 additional nights (use 116 of current April UY points, bank 44)

Year 3: May trip solo-186 pts (use 44 banked/142 current April UY points, bank 18)

Year 4: early June or October trip with family-268 pts: 3 studios for 5 nights (use 90 banked/100 current/20 borrowed June UY points) + 1 studio for 7 additional nights (use 18 banked/98 current April UY points, bank 62)

and so on....
Basically, I would be using my June UY points for the family portion of the trips and saving my April UY points for our solo trips (including one that would be stuck on the end of the family trip). It just seems to me to be easier to tack on a solo trip to a family trip than to drive 9 hours home and back again at another time. I realize that I would have to check out and back in again, but would I have to move rooms?

All of your reasons for having one contract do make sense, and I may end up selling and repurchasing, but right now, this makes sense to me. I just hope that it is right. Please let me know if anything about this would not work at all.

The less banked/borrowed points in play the better. Even if you were traveling just before you're UY, you could bank any applicable points if you had to make changes a few months out. Given this scenario and assuming 160 current points year one with no banked/borrowed to start with and the same for the 100 pt that year, here's the way I think would be best for how you've laid it out.

Yr 1: May 186 160 current plus 26 borrowed (or use any banked first.

Yr 2: June 286 points, 3 studios. I'd do the one studio for the entire longer LOS from the April UY and do the rest from the June UY.

After that I'd just repeat assuming the same EOY schedule. It allows you to not have to check in again, reduces your potential for banked/borrowed points which have higher risk and it allows you to book the entire longer stay as one segment reducing the likelihood of missing that portion of the reservation. You can alway adjust some other way to catch up if you have more banked in one or the other in a given year.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 29, 2015

Dean said:
The less banked/borrowed points in play the better. Even if you were traveling just before you're UY, you could bank any applicable points if you had to make changes a few months out. Given this scenario and assuming 160 current points year one with no banked/borrowed to start with and the same for the 100 pt that year, here's the way I think would be best for how you've laid it out.

Yr 1: May 186 160 current plus 26 borrowed (or use any banked first.

Yr 2: June 286 points, 3 studios. I'd do the one studio for the entire longer LOS from the April UY and do the rest from the June UY.

After that I'd just repeat assuming the same EOY schedule. It allows you to not have to check in again, reduces your potential for banked/borrowed points which have higher risk and it allows you to book the entire longer stay as one segment reducing the likelihood of missing that portion of the reservation. You can alway adjust some other way to catch up if you have more banked in one or the other in a given year.

The bolded part is where I think I would have a problem. Since I will need the 2 other studios only every other year and have 100 points, that's 200 points by banking, but the 2 studios would cost only 140 points. Wouldn't I end up losing 60 points? (I don't want to use the June UY points for the May trip the next year.)

Dean · Jul 30, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
The bolded part is where I think I would have a problem. Since I will need the 2 other studios only every other year and have 100 points, that's 200 points by banking, but the 2 studios would cost only 140 points. Wouldn't I end up losing 60 points? (I don't want to use the June UY points for the May trip the next year.)

You'll have to decide on the fly and it will vary depending on the specifics you start with, esp if there are any banked or borrowed with the onset of your plan. But if it were me, I'd want to have as few banked and borrowed points in play as possible a given year and to be able to reserve the longer trip all together. I'd far rather have this and to have to either transfer points periodically. My concern is that your so focused on using a given UY for a given time of year that you'll have more risk of losing points. I don't think you'll be able to have an exact plan at this point because what's "best" will be different depending on your points accounting at the time you start the plan as well as how many points you end up with initially and per year in the earlier contract. But since you're at least 1.5-2.5 yrs out by the time you stay that time, buy and can reserve; you may end up with different preferences and you can save to try to do it all as one buy and then sell the other if that's what you decide is best. The good news about going through these mental gymnastics is you'll be able to do the math better and more comfortably when the time comes.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 30, 2015

You are so right. There are so many variables! I am such a planner so that's what is hard about this. Buying through Disney the first time eliminated the guessing game, but I can't justify paying the crazy add-on prices compared to resale. I think if I decide to sell and repurchase, I will need to look for an April UY with anything between 220-250 points, depending on how many banked points there are. At least I know what to look for now. I agree that this may be easier in the long run than trying to keep the UY separate and doing all the separate banking and borrowing. Of course, with my trips requiring different amounts each year, banking will be inevitable. But at least it will be with one contract instead of two. You've also made me realize it might not be such a financial hit if I buy a larger contract. What I think people are saying when they say I will lose LOTS of money by selling and repurchasing is if I sold my contracts and bought the exact same thing just with a different UY. But selling my small contracts and buying a larger one might not be too bad. Thanks again for all the insight and the "mental gymnastics."

Dean · Jul 30, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
You are so right. There are so many variables! I am such a planner so that's what is hard about this. Buying through Disney the first time eliminated the guessing game, but I can't justify paying the crazy add-on prices compared to resale. I think if I decide to sell and repurchase, I will need to look for an April UY with anything between 220-250 points, depending on how many banked points there are. At least I know what to look for now. I agree that this may be easier in the long run than trying to keep the UY separate and doing all the separate banking and borrowing. Of course, with my trips requiring different amounts each year, banking will be inevitable. But at least it will be with one contract instead of two. You've also made me realize it might not be such a financial hit if I buy a larger contract. What I think people are saying when they say I will lose LOTS of money by selling and repurchasing is if I sold my contracts and bought the exact same thing just with a different UY. But selling my small contracts and buying a larger one might not be too bad. Thanks again for all the insight and the "mental gymnastics."

The other thing I'd strongly suggest is not to worry about finding the perfect contract for what you're thinking now in every aspect. Just like Your learning how the points and UY will work for you, you'll also learn how to use what you have. So if you found the otherwise perfect contract for say 190-210, you'd be fine. Anyone that "needs" 220 can make 200 work. Also, if you find the otherwise perfect contract at say 280 or 300, you could always rent out the extra points and recoup much of the extra costs. The larger contract might also be a little cheaper than say the 160 you mentioned above. I don't think April, May will be that difficult to reserve even for a studio so a different home resort for a part of your points has some appeal as well.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 30, 2015

Dean said:
The other thing I'd strongly suggest is not to worry about finding the perfect contract for what you're thinking now in every aspect. Just like Your learning how the points and UY will work for you, you'll also learn how to use what you have. So if you found the otherwise perfect contract for say 190-210, you'd be fine. Anyone that "needs" 220 can make 200 work. Also, if you find the otherwise perfect contract at say 280 or 300, you could always rent out the extra points and recoup much of the extra costs. The larger contract might also be a little cheaper than say the 160 you mentioned above. I don't think April, May will be that difficult to reserve even for a studio so a different home resort for a part of your points has some appeal as well.

Thanks for hanging on to this lengthy thread for so long! When you say that anyone who needs 220 can make 200 work, do you mean that eventually you would need to shorten or skip a trip to "catch up?" I have figured out by playing around with numbers that a lot depends on how many banked points there are when you purchase. If there are lots of banked points, you can manage with a smaller contract. I do know I don't want a larger contract than needed even if it is cheaper initially. For one, I don't want to bother with renting points. Also, I don't want the extra MFs. I don't want this to become a burden at all. I also know I do want to buy at HHI just for the fact that no one can predict the future and April/May could possibly become high season there and we don't know what kind of rules might be put into place in the future. I already have an AKV contract as well. I use it to stay different places at WDW, but I want my HHI points just for HHI. Thanks again!

Dean · Jul 30, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
Thanks for hanging on to this lengthy thread for so long! When you say that anyone who needs 220 can make 200 work, do you mean that eventually you would need to shorten or skip a trip to "catch up?" I have figured out by playing around with numbers that a lot depends on how many banked points there are when you purchase. If there are lots of banked points, you can manage with a smaller contract. I do know I don't want a larger contract than needed even if it is cheaper initially. For one, I don't want to bother with renting points. Also, I don't want the extra MFs. I don't want this to become a burden at all. I also know I do want to buy at HHI just for the fact that no one can predict the future and April/May could possibly become high season there and we don't know what kind of rules might be put into place in the future. I already have an AKV contract as well. I use it to stay different places at WDW, but I want my HHI points just for HHI. Thanks again!

In your world, 20 pts yearly is one stay on cash or one skipped trip every few years. A couple of advantages of being a little tight on point are that it discourages one from splurging because you "have the points" and it gives one the opportunity to do other things where points are not a great option, maybe a cruise or non DVC stay. You are correct that the starting point dramatically affects this equation, we're talking about as much as a 400 pt swing on a 200 pt contract. That's why I encouraged you to look for the "best' contract rather than trying to hit the perfect contract. Even if you found the perfect contract but it took you an extra year, you'd be behind by roughly one trip and/or a yrs worth of points. I wouldn't want you to buy just to rent or to go truly overboard but something that's 10-20% larger than you think you need shouldn't be a big deal. Even if you had truly more points than you'd need but only say 50 extra, it'd take you several years to catch up enough you had to do something. That might be one rental every 5 years but not a routine need. And you might find you'd rather alter your trips a little. Esp since you're doing 3 studios at one time, I presume to save points, it'd give you the option of a 2 BR +/- a studio instead. That's certainly an upgrade for most people. I definitely would like people to evaluate how these options fit into their budget, but if an extra $300 a year is a problem in this scenario, buying in general likely isn't a good idea.

Having another contract might affect my thoughts on all of this. What are the specifics of your AKV in terms of size and UY? If it were June also, it certainly would affect my personal recommendations in the situation you've laid out.

Certainly one doesn't know what will happen but one can predict many of the factors. I don't think there's any way that time will become truly high demand so I think that's safe. Since you're focused on HH alone and have other options for none HH trips, I'd again encourage you to at least look at other timeshare, maybe one of the top end Marriott's or Marriott Trust Points. You could get a feel for that type of option AND the other time of year with one non DVC stay before you proceed. That direction might be a little more costly for your summer trips but cheaper for your spring trip and the one disadvantage (or advantage) is they are 2 BR only except for one resort with 2 & 3 BR. No studios or lockoff's. But not that much more, a 2 BR consistently and ocean front for the top 3.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 30, 2015

Dean said:
In your world, 20 pts yearly is one stay on cash or one skipped trip every few years. A couple of advantages of being a little tight on point are that it discourages one from splurging because you "have the points" and it gives one the opportunity to do other things where points are not a great option, maybe a cruise or non DVC stay. You are correct that the starting point dramatically affects this equation, we're talking about as much as a 400 pt swing on a 200 pt contract. That's why I encouraged you to look for the "best' contract rather than trying to hit the perfect contract. Even if you found the perfect contract but it took you an extra year, you'd be behind by roughly one trip and/or a yrs worth of points. I wouldn't want you to buy just to rent or to go truly overboard but something that's 10-20% larger than you think you need shouldn't be a big deal. Even if you had truly more points than you'd need but only say 50 extra, it'd take you several years to catch up enough you had to do something. That might be one rental every 5 years but not a routine need. And you might find you'd rather alter your trips a little. Esp since you're doing 3 studios at one time, I presume to save points, it'd give you the option of a 2 BR +/- a studio instead. That's certainly an upgrade for most people. I definitely would like people to evaluate how these options fit into their budget, but if an extra $300 a year is a problem in this scenario, buying in general likely isn't a good idea.

Having another contract might affect my thoughts on all of this. What are the specifics of your AKV in terms of size and UY? If it were June also, it certainly would affect my personal recommendations in the situation you've laid out.

Certainly one doesn't know what will happen but one can predict many of the factors. I don't think there's any way that time will become truly high demand so I think that's safe. Since you're focused on HH alone and have other options for none HH trips, I'd again encourage you to at least look at other timeshare, maybe one of the top end Marriott's or Marriott Trust Points. You could get a feel for that type of option AND the other time of year with one non DVC stay before you proceed. That direction might be a little more costly for your summer trips but cheaper for your spring trip and the one disadvantage (or advantage) is they are 2 BR only except for one resort with 2 & 3 BR. No studios or lockoff's. But not that much more, a 2 BR consistently and ocean front for the top 3.

I have a 100-point contract at AKV with a June UY, and I do plan to add on with June UY points; however, I want to use that to book mostly value studios there. I have been to almost every DVC already, and AKV and HHI are my favorites. I doubt I will want to book anywhere else again, unless I just get bored out of my gourd. As far as your guess about the studios, you are right a little. I am a value-person and like that they are cheaper points, but honestly, I LIKE studios. I know, weird. I have been in studios, 1 BRs, and 2 BRs. I don't use the kitchen or the whirlpool tub. It doesn't bother me to do my laundry in the laundry room. For my DH and I, a studio is enough for a pleasant vacation. We used to do 2 BRs with our boys, but this year was the first year we did two separate studios since our older son was over 18, and I loved it! Now, the reason I am thinking three studios with my family instead of a 2 BR and a studio is because I like my privacy. I may change my mind when I have grandkids, but honestly I like the idea of my own little retreat.

KAT4DISNEY · Jul 30, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
I see what you are saying. The problem is I will have to do banking and a little borrowing anyway because I will be doing the 3 studios only every other year. If I keep my two 50-point contracts, banking will give me 200, but two studios would cost only 140 points. Then if I bank the 60, I wouldn't be going back the next year to use them (except for in May which I don't want to use the June UY pts for that trip). I'm totally used to banking points as that is all we do now. If we have to cancel, we will use them before they expire or rent the reservation. I'm really thinking I don't want to go through the hassle of selling if this will work. Is my thinking off? This is assuming two 50-pt. June UY contracts and one 160-pt. April UY contract.

Year 1: May trip solo-186 pts (use 26 banked/160 current April UY points)

Year 2: early June or October trip with family-268 pts: 3 studios for 5 nights (use 100 banked/100 current/10 borrowed June UY points) + 1 studio for 7 additional nights (use 116 of current April UY points, bank 44)

Year 3: May trip solo-186 pts (use 44 banked/142 current April UY points, bank 18)

Year 4: early June or October trip with family-268 pts: 3 studios for 5 nights (use 90 banked/100 current/20 borrowed June UY points) + 1 studio for 7 additional nights (use 18 banked/98 current April UY points, bank 62)

and so on....
Basically, I would be using my June UY points for the family portion of the trips and saving my April UY points for our solo trips (including one that would be stuck on the end of the family trip). It just seems to me to be easier to tack on a solo trip to a family trip than to drive 9 hours home and back again at another time. I realize that I would have to check out and back in again, but would I have to move rooms?

All of your reasons for having one contract do make sense, and I may end up selling and repurchasing, but right now, this makes sense to me. I just hope that it is right. Please let me know if anything about this would not work at all.

I agree with Dean that with this scenario don't get too caught up with always using points from the same UY for each part of the same trip. You would use up the banked and current points before you get into borrowing or some other sort of combination that always keeps the majority of current points in use. To do that you would either transfer the points or else have the reservations linked. You can use a spreadsheet to map it out for many years or once you start doing it you'll probably find it easier to work with. One thing I'm seeing is that the 160 is actually a little over what you would typically need for these stays. Another 120 or 125 would appear to cover all your intended HHI stays.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 30, 2015

KAT4DISNEY said:
I agree with Dean that with this scenario don't get too caught up with always using points from the same UY for each part of the same trip. You would use up the banked and current points before you get into borrowing or some other sort of combination that always keeps the majority of current points in use. To do that you would either transfer the points or else have the reservations linked. You can use a spreadsheet to map it out for many years or once you start doing it you'll probably find it easier to work with. One thing I'm seeing is that the 160 is actually a little over what you would typically need for these stays. Another 120 or 125 would appear to cover all your intended HHI stays.

That's why I'm thinking now that I would be better off selling and repurchasing somewhere around 220-230 points. That would eliminate the borrowing. It would not eliminate the banking though since one year I would be using 186 points and the next year would be 268 points. I would have to bank some for the larger trip. If your suggestion is another 120-125 on top of the 100 I have, that's right on with what I'm thinking with selling my 100 and buying 220-230. I just think I'd be much safer with the April UY for everything.

Dean · Jul 30, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
I have a 100-point contract at AKV with a June UY, and I do plan to add on with June UY points; however, I want to use that to book mostly value studios there. I have been to almost every DVC already, and AKV and HHI are my favorites. I doubt I will want to book anywhere else again, unless I just get bored out of my gourd. As far as your guess about the studios, you are right a little. I am a value-person and like that they are cheaper points, but honestly, I LIKE studios. I know, weird. I have been in studios, 1 BRs, and 2 BRs. I don't use the kitchen or the whirlpool tub. It doesn't bother me to do my laundry in the laundry room. For my DH and I, a studio is enough for a pleasant vacation. We used to do 2 BRs with our boys, but this year was the first year we did two separate studios since our older son was over 18, and I loved it! Now, the reason I am thinking three studios with my family instead of a 2 BR and a studio is because I like my privacy. I may change my mind when I have grandkids, but honestly I like the idea of my own little retreat.

If you have the June UY and plan to add more, I likely would just add a second UY for a modest size contract for April IF an only if you are happy when you try out that time of the year. Or maybe even better for this situation would be to just stay with June for everything and take your chances on last minutes changes for the EOY May trip. The 2 BR can bring other benefits that you didn't mention including 2 beds in the BR, the option of warming up foot more easily, the King bed and bath with tub so you don't have to be as concerned with the HC unit situation. For HH there are also a lot more of them making reserving easier and more likely to work out than multiple studios. Good luck.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 30, 2015

Dean said:
If you have the June UY and plan to add more, I likely would just add a second UY for a modest size contract for April IF an only if you are happy when you try out that time of the year. Or maybe even better for this situation would be to just stay with June for everything and take your chances on last minutes changes for the EOY May trip. The 2 BR can bring other benefits that you didn't mention including 2 beds in the BR, the option of warming up foot more easily, the King bed and bath with tub so you don't have to be as concerned with the HC unit situation. For HH there are also a lot more of them making reserving easier and more likely to work out than multiple studios. Good luck.

We will definitely try out May before getting an April UY. I'm not good at "taking chances," so I suspect traveling in May with a June UY will stress me out. It's funny you mentioned the other benefits of a 2 BR. I do not view them as benefits, but I know everyone differs on this. The sofa beds are fine for kids (my 19-year-old just spent 5 nights on one and didn't complain). I couldn't figure out what you meant by "warming up foot," then I realized you meant food. I do not cook on vacation, and probably would not even with a 12-night trip, unless it was a microwavable meal for lunch, and for that a microwave does just fine. My DH and I have a queen bed now and like to cuddle (sorry if that's too much info). When we've slept in king beds before, we have TOO much room and feel lost. Now I am concerned with HCA rooms, and from another thread I have posted just realized there are 2 HCA studios out of 16 at HHI. Not sure about this at AKV though. That might be enough for me to look into points for a 2 BR and a studio. Lots of options, but you have given me a lot to think about. Thanks again!

Dean · Jul 30, 2015

DisneyStarWisher said:
We will definitely try out May before getting an April UY. I'm not good at "taking chances," so I suspect traveling in May with a June UY will stress me out. It's funny you mentioned the other benefits of a 2 BR. I do not view them as benefits, but I know everyone differs on this. The sofa beds are fine for kids (my 19-year-old just spent 5 nights on one and didn't complain). I couldn't figure out what you meant by "warming up foot," then I realized you meant food. I do not cook on vacation, and probably would not even with a 12-night trip, unless it was a microwavable meal for lunch, and for that a microwave does just fine. My DH and I have a queen bed now and like to cuddle (sorry if that's too much info). When we've slept in king beds before, we have TOO much room and feel lost. Now I am concerned with HCA rooms, and from another thread I have posted just realized there are 2 HCA studios out of 16 at HHI. Not sure about this at AKV though. That might be enough for me to look into points for a 2 BR and a studio. Lots of options, but you have given me a lot to think about. Thanks again!

Good luck and let us know how things end up for our own interest and the benefit of others.

DisneyStarWisher · Jul 30, 2015

Dean said:
Good luck and let us know how things end up for our own interest and the benefit of others.

Thanks. Will do.

Selling Contract to Get a Better UY

Dean

DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

Dean

DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

Dean

DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

Dean

DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

KAT4DISNEY

Glad to be a test subject

DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

Dean

DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

Dean

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DisneyStarWisher

Love My DVC!!!

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