Slow closing for resales - on purpose?

DVC Doctor · Jul 1, 2015

I just read that for resales, Disney is taking 90 days to load points into a usable account.

In the past this only took 45 days or so and I wonder if this prolonged delay is being done on purpose to convince people to buy from them and/or to let banked points go to waste.

Current estimated times are:

ROFR 30 days
Estopple 30 days
Closing and loading points into an account and member letter 30 days

disneynutz · Jul 1, 2015

Yes IMO Disney delays the resale process which causes people to buy direct. If you buy direct they can set up your account, load your points and make a reservation for you in one or two days. Resale can take thirty. ROFR could take one or two days but it takes 30.

:earsboy:

Bill

JimMIA · Jul 1, 2015

disneynutz said:
Yes IMO Disney delays the resale process which causes people to buy direct.

IMHO, anyone who pays double to get quicker access to 50 years worth of points is really out of touch with what's important in the purchase.

ColinBlair · Jul 1, 2015

Sorry, wrong post.

zippy256 · Jul 1, 2015

Maybe this is just me being a hopeless optimist (though I don't put anything past Disney), but I'd like to propose another theory. What if they number of transactions has surged and the DVC staff cannot handle the increased workload and meet previous service standards?
To test my theory I compared year over year (aggregated monthly) recordings of deeds on the Orange County Comptroller site where Disney is the grantor. What I found is that Feb-June 2015 shows 30% more records then the same 5 months in 2014. Note: I did no verification on the data for duplicates or other funny business - so a surge in closings, while likely, isn't the only possibility.

Code:

    2014 2015
jan 2290 2009
feb 1515 2046
mar 1390 2272
apr 1579 2134
may 1651 1396
june 1553 2108
total 7688 9956

Jan and May were outliers, but the other months (March +63%) saw huge gains.
Now - why they don't just tell us they're really busy I'm not sure and makes it seem like they're hiding something.

ffwillie · Jul 1, 2015

zippy256 said:
Maybe this is just me being a hopeless optimist (though I don't put anything past Disney), but I'd like to propose another theory. What if they number of transactions has surged and the DVC staff cannot handle the increased workload and meet previous service standards?

I tend to agree with you. I think it has more to do with volume and other things and less to do with anything nefarious. I think between all of the IT problems they have had, be it outsourcing or incompetence they have fallen way behind. I had heard they had some kind of snafu with member dues earlier in the year that may have caused a back log. I would also imagine that VGF selling out and Poly opening didn't help things any.

They probably also give preference to direct sales which I can't say I blame them, if it was my business I would probably do the same. I have to admit as I wind down to hopefully the last week of waiting for my member number, I do wish they would get their act together. It has been a long 3+ months. Watching others work through the process and knowing their timeline has helped with the anxiety since it has helped me know what to expect.

supersnoop · Jul 1, 2015

zippy256 said:
Now - why they don't just tell us they're really busy I'm not sure and makes it seem like they're hiding something.

Is that not what they've told us? Maybe I've just assumed that was common knowledge. Yes, estoppels and creating new member accounts are taking longer. I don't think they're doing anything nefarious.

WDWGeek1971 · Jul 1, 2015

We just closed on a resale. It was a cash transaction. I put in an offer on 3/17/15 and received my membership number on 6/8/15. Not quite three months, but it certainly took longer than I had originally anticipated.

Minniesgal · Jul 2, 2015

I guess it depends whether you subscribe to the screw up or the conspiracy theory. I'm betting a bit of both.

I bought direct this year and if I hadn't really wanted a small VGF add on in my UY I would have walked away from the amount of mistakes that were made. Poly sales seemed to overwhelm them in the early days. But I also don't think they are above making things harder for resale.

disneynutz · Jul 2, 2015

ffwillie said:
I tend to agree with you. I think it has more to do with volume and other things and less to do with anything nefarious. I think between all of the IT problems they have had, be it outsourcing or incompetence they have fallen way behind. I had heard they had some kind of snafu with member dues earlier in the year that may have caused a back log. I would also imagine that VGF selling out and Poly opening didn't help things any.

They probably also give preference to direct sales which I can't say I blame them, if it was my business I would probably do the same. I have to admit as I wind down to hopefully the last week of waiting for my member number, I do wish they would get their act together. It has been a long 3+ months. Watching others work through the process and knowing their timeline has helped with the anxiety since it has helped me know what to expect.

If the volume of work has increased, if you really care about your customer you add more people. They still expedite direct sales but resales take a back seat even though the members pay for member services and administration.

:earsboy:

Bill

JimMIA · Jul 2, 2015

I suspect 90 days is more like the industry standard, or even a little better. I know when we purchased Wyndham, the transfer took almost 6 months and that's not an unusual timeline, especially if there are any issues with the documentation. Most of the paperwork is done via snail mail and it just takes a long time.

disneynutz · Jul 2, 2015

JimMIA said:
I suspect 90 days is more like the industry standard, or even a little better. I know when we purchased Wyndham, the transfer took almost 6 months and that's not an unusual timeline, especially if there are any issues with the documentation. Most of the paperwork is done via snail mail and it just takes a long time.

So crappy service is standard in the timeshare industry, good to know but that doesn't make it right or acceptable. I would also think better of Disney if they were the exception not the rule.

:earsboy:

Bill

supersnoop · Jul 2, 2015

disneynutz said:
If the volume of work has increased, if you really care about your customer you add more people. They still expedite direct sales but resales take a back seat even though the members pay for member services and administration.

Bill

But resale doesn't bring in any additional revenue, so how can they justify additional headcount? That would just increase maintenance fees.

Missyrose · Jul 2, 2015

Minniesgal said:
I guess it depends whether you subscribe to the screw up or the conspiracy theory. I'm betting a bit of both.

I bought direct this year and if I hadn't really wanted a small VGF add on in my UY I would have walked away from the amount of mistakes that were made. Poly sales seemed to overwhelm them in the early days. But I also don't think they are above making things harder for resale.

I had issues with my VGF add-on too. Wrong UY on the paperwork. Wrong point total on just one page of the contract.

disneynutz · Jul 2, 2015

supersnoop said:
But resale doesn't bring in any additional revenue, so how can they justify additional headcount? That would just increase maintenance fees.

DVC operations doesn't generate revenue and without knowing who works where, they could move some people around to better utilize them where needed.

My thoughts are that DVC management sees no reason to improve the resale timeline because resale is Disney's competition. They already charge different fees for resale, they could add $20 to expedite resale processing and probably every resale buyer would gladly pay it, but again resale is competition. In a way it's a conflict of interest.

:earsboy:

Bill

ColinBlair · Jul 2, 2015

Considering all of the griping that I have been seeing about the various title companies, I think the lots of transactions theory has a lot of credence to it as the title companies seem to be having trouble keeping up. Most of the griping here at Disboards has been about TT&M but I have seen similar complaints about the other title companies on other boards. I am sure the ROFR wait is on purpose, but considering the number of mistakes they have been making Hanlon's Razor does seem to apply.

I am considering Supersnoop's point with interest. I am annoyed right now and worrying about using the banked points that expire 12/1, but do I really want to be paying slightly more maintenance feeds every year for the next several decades just so that future resale buyers can get their purchase completed faster?

JimMIA · Jul 2, 2015

disneynutz said:
So crappy service is standard in the timeshare industry, good to know but that doesn't make it right or acceptable. I would also think better of Disney if they were the exception not the rule.

Bill

Well, as I said, I think Disney may be better than the industry standard -- certainly DVC's three months is better than Wyndham's six.

Also failing to jump whenever someone snaps their finger is hardly crappy service. We're just so accustomed to Internet Age instant gratification that we pitch a little temper tantrum anytime one little detail doesn't go our way...and I'm no exception. But sometimes we just need to get over ourselves!

Buyers would be better off if they took a long view of DVC ownership anyway. The focus on days and weeks is really kind of silly.

DVC Doctor · Jul 2, 2015

disneynutz said:
If the volume of work has increased, if you really care about your customer you add more people. They still expedite direct sales but resales take a back seat even though the members pay for member services and administration.

Bill

I agree. Just like there are more cast members during the summer than the slow times, DVC should add more people to help with the high demand of resale paperwork.

supersnoop said:
But resale doesn't bring in any additional revenue, so how can they justify additional headcount? That would just increase maintenance fees.

So do you think Disney should run the Magic Kingdom with a skeleton crew to save money on the busiest holiday when the park has to close admission to new guests.

ColinBlair said:
Considering all of the griping that I have been seeing about the various title companies, I think the lots of transactions theory has a lot of credence to it as the title companies seem to be having trouble keeping up. Most of the griping here at Disboards has been about TT&M but I have seen similar complaints about the other title companies on other boards. I am sure the ROFR wait is on purpose, but considering the number of mistakes they have been making Hanlon's Razor does seem to apply.

I am considering Supersnoop's point with interest. I am annoyed right now and worrying about using the banked points that expire 12/1, but do I really want to be paying slightly more maintenance feeds every year for the next several decades just so that future resale buyers can get their purchase completed faster?

I much prefer Occam's razor over Hanlon's razor and now days considering using Harry's razor.

JimMIA said:
Well, as I said, I think Disney may be better than the industry standard -- certainly DVC's three months is better than Wyndham's six.

Also failing to jump whenever someone snaps their finger is hardly crappy service. We're just so accustomed to Internet Age instant gratification that we pitch a little temper tantrum anytime one little detail doesn't go our way...and I'm no exception. But sometimes we just need to get over ourselves!

Buyers would be better off if they took a long view of DVC ownership anyway. The focus on days and weeks is really kind of silly.

If you are buying a loaded contract with 300 points and want to use the banked points, long delays in closing may cause points to expire before getting access to the points.

300 x $13pp = $3,900 value vanishing is NOT silly.

supersnoop · Jul 2, 2015

DVC Doctor said:
So do you think Disney should run the Magic Kingdom with a skeleton crew to save money on the busiest holiday when the park has to close admission to new guests.

I'm not fond of straw man arguments. You're presumption that there is any correlation is preposterous.

JimMIA · Jul 2, 2015

DVC Doctor said:
If you are buying a loaded contract with 300 points and want to use the banked points, long delays in closing may cause points to expire before getting access to the points.

Right, but the prudent buyer would know the closing/access timeline before they buy.

How sensible is it to use 300 banked points as a significant factor in your purchase decision unless you will have certain access to them WAY in advance of expiration? Don't forget, just getting the points is not the only consideration. You have to get them in time for there to be reasonable availability for you to make reservations.

If I buy a contract and then "lose" $3,900 because the closing took too long, that's a self-inflicted wound.

Slow closing for resales - on purpose?

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