School field trip, bathing suit guidelines

tvguy · Jun 1, 2015

pryncess527 said:
I can not think of anything more petty than school forcing a teenage boy to be clean shaven. Why on earth do they care? Are beards also distracting?

Catholic school. Facial hair was forbidden. That was one of the "accept it or take your child elsewhere" rules. Petty indeed, but DW and I were willing to accept it in exchange for the quality of education he got.

Gracie09 · Jun 1, 2015

Mkrop said:
But the one where I live is a state college...once again though it says my town like the exact name so I rather not type it out. They have a dress code, nothing over the top imho but they do have one.

My university has a dress code for staff- business casual and no flip flops for safety reasons. If they tried a dress code for faculty it would be laughed at. The students can wear whatever they want. There are even some faculty with tattoos and some staff with piercings.

Kimberlyann11 · Jun 1, 2015

Dress codes don't make girls embarrassed about their bodies. Do you know what does? Other girls. I developed quite early and pretty spectacularly, if I do say so myself. I was an awesome distraction to all the boys. If a teacher told me to cover up, I wouldn't be embarrassed, I would just think "I'm too sexy for this shirt".

However, the other girls were a different story. They managed to make me very self-conscious about my legs. I had muscular legs due to a large amount of walking and bike riding. The jealous witches made me so embarrassed about my body that all through high school I never wore shorts. All Summer. When I went swimming I wore knee length cut-off shorts and a bikini top. And I went to school in the late seventies when knee length shorts were not a thing. I didn't even own shorts except for those. I think it was even on this board that there was a thread last year or so about not wearing sandals if you have ugly feet. (FTR I don't own sandals either). So until women stop body shaming each other, dress codes are the least of our problems.

aprilgail · Jun 1, 2015

luvsJack said:
DD's bff had blue hair in second grade. My own son's hair has been green, blue, purple, black, bleached and black and white. Not that conservative. Like I said, my own sons have tats and piercings. Its prevalent here too. But it will hinder jobs just like it will for them later.

I agree- my daughter had blue hair in 5th grade, now in high school she has had white, silver and now purple. I believe it is changing to pink next week. Its fun for her to change her hair color and it hurts no one. I can't believe how many adults stop her when we are out to say they love her hair!

goofy4prez · Jun 1, 2015

pryncess527 said:
I can not think of anything more petty than school forcing a teenage boy to be clean shaven. Why on earth do they care? Are beards also distracting?

I had to adhere to such a rule while I was in high school and my DD's high school requires it 30 years after I graduated. I personally don't have a problem with it; high school is part of a building block for our kids to one day enter into the work force post high school/college and whether we like it or not many employers have a policy of being clean shaven. I know mine does.

pryncess527 said:
I do not know a single college professor that would permit the university to dictate to them what they are allowed to wear.and I work at a university, so I know more than a few.

Perhaps your university where you work will allow your professors to wear whatever they want and how to wear whatever they want, but the university I attended in college had and still does have a dress code for it's staff including professors. And while our society has become more and more casual, many employers still require a dress code to be followed including the employer whom I am employed by. If I want to receive a paycheck then I can't wear what I want to wear. I'm not attacking you in any way, just saying how things are where I'm at.

Mkrop · Jun 2, 2015

Gracie09 said:
My university has a dress code for staff- business casual and no flip flops for safety reasons. If they tried a dress code for faculty it would be laughed at. The students can wear whatever they want. There are even some faculty with tattoos and some staff with piercings.

Why the distinction? If I worked there I would be annoyed that one set of professionals had dress code rule and another did not. If staff needs business casual then why dont the professors???

Dawnlight · Jun 2, 2015

Kimberlyann11 said:
Dress codes don't make girls embarrassed about their bodies. Do you know what does? Other girls. I developed quite early and pretty spectacularly, if I do say so myself. I was an awesome distraction to all the boys. If a teacher told me to cover up, I wouldn't be embarrassed, I would just think "I'm too sexy for this shirt".

However, the other girls were a different story. They managed to make me very self-conscious about my legs. I had muscular legs due to a large amount of walking and bike riding. The jealous witches made me so embarrassed about my body that all through high school I never wore shorts. All Summer. When I went swimming I wore knee length cut-off shorts and a bikini top. And I went to school in the late seventies when knee length shorts were not a thing. I didn't even own shorts except for those. I think it was even on this board that there was a thread last year or so about not wearing sandals if you have ugly feet. (FTR I don't own sandals either). So until women stop body shaming each other, dress codes are the least of our problems.

It's this the truth! I was the tallest girl in my middle school and was teased relentlessly about having daddy-long leg legs. I didn't buy into the Benetton rugby shirt trend that was so popular during that time and dressed to my own tastes and was teased for that. I always kept my hair long and straight, tied up in a bun or braids, or let down depending on the mood. I was teased for that by girls who permed and dyed their hair every month. Girls were definitely much worse than boys when it came to body image at that age.

I had to chuckle at the "I'm too sexy for this shirt" comment- work it, girl! :woohoo:

NewRVLady · Jun 2, 2015

pryncess527 said:
I do not know a single college professor that would permit the university to dictate to them what they are allowed to wear.and I work at a university, so I know more than a few.

might be.....but would they get tenure and better raises if they did?

all the kids k-12 wear uniforms in my city-Catholic, private and public school-best thing ever.

Gracie09 · Jun 2, 2015

Mkrop said:
Why the distinction? If I worked there I would be annoyed that one set of professionals had dress code rule and another did not. If staff needs business casual then why dont the professors???

Tenure - most faculty have tenure and essentially jobs for life. Then it gets into issues of academic freedom (kid you not) and most of the people making the rules are former faculty. Its no different than a hospital having a dress code for nurses but not doctors

pryncess527 · Jun 2, 2015

sam_gordon said:
Once again, I agree. But couldn't you turn the argument around and say "Instead of castigating dress codes (I know you aren't but others are) on their own, protest the individual codes that are too extreme"?

Does that make sense?

You could, but I tend to come from a libertarian perspective, so as a general principle, I prefer fewer rules where I think fewer rules will do. I have also learned, from my experience with students, that if we expect a lot from them, they often rise to meet those expectations. I think it is more practical, and less harmful, to have no dress code and let administration deal with extreme situations as they arise. If a girl (or boys) *** cheeks are hanging out of their shorts, I think that can be dealt with without requiring a formal, written, often zero-tolerance policy in place. And that also permits administrators to exercise judgement when they understand that poverty or some other circumstance might play a role in a child's inappropriate dress.

kamik86 · Jun 2, 2015

I was thinking about this more last night....

What would a school actually do with a student that had a tatoo or piercing that wouldn't heal (I'm thinking like the huge ear loops I see... I assume those aren't going to heal just because you removed the actual jewelry) ? All of the other items mentioned here are easily fixable (hair can be dyed again to a natural color, clothes are easily changed but these ones aren't things the student can just undo.

Now for arguments sake lets assume this student moved so they were not in the school district with the rule when they got the tatoo or piercing. If its a private school they could just not admit the student. However I was under the impression that public school couldn't turn away a student. I wonder how that would go?

Gracie09 · Jun 2, 2015

NewRVLady said:
might be.....but would they get tenure and better raises if they did?

all the kids k-12 wear uniforms in my city-Catholic, private and public school-best thing ever.

most of them probably already have tenure and raises are pretty lock-step at most places.
Tenure is a very involved process. You have to be hired at a tenure-track line. You have to meet the criteria for tenure over a set amount of years usually 5-7, with annual reviews. A professor hired on a non-tenure position can't just suddenly be tenured. They would have to start at the beginning of the tenure track line, assuming they would be hired at that line to begin with.

15isto2 · Jun 2, 2015

Whats wrong with boys wearing a speedo?

Dawnlight · Jun 2, 2015

15isto2 said:
Whats wrong with boys wearing a speedo?

Teresa Pitman · Jun 2, 2015

unhinged said:
Problem is, that is not the only logical way to address the issue. As others have said, boys will be distracted by girls in turtlenecks and long pants.

I prefer teaching boys to not objectify girls and to be able to handle their so-called distractions. I wonder how the boys in Europe manage to do it with their more open views of the human body.

I agree. There has been much talk about preparing kids for "the real world" - shouldn't part of that be learning to deal with things that are distracting? Because there will be many distracting things when you are working that you won't be able to ask someone to remove for you.

Dizlvr · Jun 2, 2015

Teresa Pitman said:
I agree. There has been much talk about preparing kids for "the real world" - shouldn't part of that be learning to deal with things that are distracting? Because there will be many distracting things when you are working that you won't be able to ask someone to remove for you.

But school isn't the real world, and they can't win. If they start teaching kids how to deal with sexual distractions, or IOW teaching them they shouldn't be distracted, do you not think there is going to be parents all up in arms? Of course there will be, look at the drama over dress codes.
You all can't have it both ways, either you want the schools "to stay out of your homes" or you don't.

pryncess527 · Jun 2, 2015

Dizlvr said:
But school isn't the real world, and they can't win. If they start teaching kids how to deal with sexual distractions, or IOW teaching them they shouldn't be distracted, do you not think there is going to be parents all up in arms? Of course there will be, look at the drama over dress codes.
You all can't have it both ways, either you want the schools "to stay out of your homes" or you don't.

If parents are "up in arms" because their son was disciplined for sexually harassing young girls, I'm okay with that. I do not see this as a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. We don't need the schools to enforce morality. We just need the schools to reinforce the larger social lesson that you do not have a right to other people's bodies and should respect their space.

unhinged · Jun 2, 2015

Dizlvr said:
But school isn't the real world, and they can't win. If they start teaching kids how to deal with sexual distractions, or IOW teaching them they shouldn't be distracted, do you not think there is going to be parents all up in arms? Of course there will be, look at the drama over dress codes.
You all can't have it both ways, either you want the schools "to stay out of your homes" or you don't.

Why in the world would a school have to teach boys not to be distracted? It should just be an expectation of behavior, largely taught at home. If you raise the bar of expectation, children will usually respond. Of course there will be the few outliers that push the envelope, but they can be dealt with individually.

I am so glad that our adolescent boys are not so distracted by hormones in our no-dress-code world that they cannot do their work and act impulsively on these distractions. And guess what, our girls are coming into school in spaghetti strapped camisoles (not lingerie, but the stretchy kind) and shorts that are about thumb knuckle length, not fingertip length. It is not a problem in our school. The thought that these boys are sitting there salivating, being too distracted to concentrate is laughable. I can't imagine a middle school boy who is so distracted by shoulders that he can't control his urges and the school has to be modified to meet his lack of self-control.

Our boys are so used to seeing shoulders and thighs that they are about as distracted as when they see a hand or an elbow. Those that have hormones raging will be distracted no matter what the girl is dressed in. They are expected to deal with it.

Sexual harassment is against the law, not just some school rule. Hopefully the parents have taught their child not to break the law. And if he/she does, then the parents can expect to deal with the school.

Dizlvr · Jun 2, 2015

pryncess527 said:
If parents are "up in arms" because their son was disciplined for sexually harassing young girls, I'm okay with that. I do not see this as a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. We don't need the schools to enforce morality. We just need the schools to reinforce the larger social lesson that you do not have a right to other people's bodies and should respect their space.

And you don't think they do that now?

There is a difference between being distracted and having a right to other people's bodies and respecting their space.
Dress codes aren't put in place to keep boys from attacking girls and vice versa because they can't control their physical urges. Dress codes are put in place so that those girls and boys have keep their mind on their schoolwork instead of the butts and breasts that are hanging out while they are in the classroom.

pryncess527 · Jun 2, 2015

Dizlvr said:
And you don't think they do that now?

There is a difference between being distracted and having a right to other people's bodies and respecting their space.
Dress codes aren't put in place to keep boys from attacking girls and vice versa because they can't control their physical urges. Dress codes are put in place so that those girls and boys have keep their mind on their schoolwork instead of the butts and breasts that are hanging out while they are in the classroom.

Teachers combat "distraction" in a million ways every day without parents getting involved. What on earth makes you think this is any different than the thousands of other things that distract young boys? Making a boy's distracted behavior the fault and responsibility of their female classmates is wrong. and if you are saying the only practical way to deal with distracted young men is to issue directives regarding how the females should dress, then I think you are doing exactly that. The focus is on the wrong area.

If girls show up dressed like strippers, I think schools can handle that without a fingertip or no-spaghetti strap rule.

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