Yet Another Lawsuit: MagicBands are "infringing"

What's good for the goose...

Considering Disney would have been nothing if the copyright laws they bribed through were in effect back when Snow White came out... color me uncaring.

Disney has been going wild for awhile now, turn about is fair play and maybe this will get them to take another look at what couldn't have been if today's Disney was around when Walt started drawing a mouse on a napkin.

I don't understand this at all. Could you explain what you mean?

What "copyright laws" did Disney "bribe" though and how do these laws affect Snow White?
How does Disney's alleged bribe for "copyright laws" relate to a lawsuit against Disney over MM+ or FP+?
What events or facts do you rely upon when you say "Disney has been going wild for awhile now" - I don't understand what "wild" things Disney has done and in what context they have done them.
What do you want Disney to "take another look at"?

I understand if you don't like FP+ (at least, i gather that you don't from your signature). I'm not crazy about the idea of it myself but I want to give it an honest try. I'm not saying I think you are wrong, just that I don't understand your point.
 
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I don't understand this at all. Could you explain what you mean?

What "copyright laws" did Disney "bribe" though and how do these laws affect Snow White?
How does Disney's alleged bribe for "copyright laws" relate to a lawsuit against Disney over MM+ or FP+?
What events or facts do you rely upon when you say "Disney has been going wild for awhile now" - I don't understand what "wild" things Disney has done and in what context they have done them.
What do you want Disney to "take another look at"?

Well, it's not called bribing, it's called campaign donations or trips or consulting...

Back when Walt made Snow White, copyright laws were 20 years. Plenty of time for an author (artist or whoever) to make their money off their "idea". 20 years was, to me, a pretty good time limit.

Flash forward to last decade where Disney was instrumental in changing that to 70 years... from the date the guy dies. Yeah.

So basically every movie Disney made up until the late 90's could not have been made under todays copyright laws that Disney bribed, er... persuaded, to be changed.

Don't get me wrong, I love IP laws (or at least some form of them), it's crucial to advancement of society and technology, not just arts. No one would work their butts off to create new things if anyone could easily steal them... *cough* china *cough*.

What do I want them to take a look at? The fact they wouldn't be here if all the changes they pushed for were in effect when Walt started drawing mice on napkins. Walt is turnign over in his grave for virtually everything the company is doing.

-Oh and I need to update my sig.
 
Well, it's not called bribing, it's called campaign donations or trips or consulting...

Back when Walt made Snow White, copyright laws were 20 years. Plenty of time for an author (artist or whoever) to make their money off their "idea". 20 years was, to me, a pretty good time limit.

Flash forward to last decade where Disney was instrumental in changing that to 70 years... from the date the guy dies. Yeah.

So basically every movie Disney made up until the late 90's could not have been made under todays copyright laws that Disney bribed, er... persuaded, to be changed.

Don't get me wrong, I love IP laws (or at least some form of them), it's crucial to advancement of society and technology, not just arts. No one would work their butts off to create new things if anyone could easily steal them... *cough* china *cough*.

What do I want them to take a look at? The fact they wouldn't be here if all the changes they pushed for were in effect when Walt started drawing mice on napkins. Walt is turnign over in his grave for virtually everything the company is doing.

-Oh and I need to update my sig.

Snow White was published in 1937. It fell under the Copyright Act of 1909. According to the U.S. Copyright Office:

Federal standards for copyright duration differ substantially under the 1909 act compared with the 1976 act because of the renewal term contained in the 1909 act. Under the 1909 act, federal copyright was secured on the date a work was published or, for unpublished works, on the date of registration. A copyright lasted for a first term of 28 years from the date it was secured. The copyright was eligible for renewal during the final, that is, 28th year, of the first term. If renewed, the copyright was extended for a second, or renewal, term of 28 years. If it was not renewed, the copyright expired at the end of the first 28-year term, and the work is no longer protected by copyright. The term of copyright for works published with a year date in the notice that is earlier than the actual date of publication is computed from the year date in the copyright notice.​

So the copyright protection for Snow White at the time it was created was effectively 56 years, not 20. In 1976, the length of the renewal term was increased to 47 years. Snow White, however, would have been in its second term at this point and, assuming it was renewed (which is a pretty safe assumption) it's copyright protection was "automatically extended to last for a total term of 95 years (a first term of 28 years plus a renewal term of 67 years) from the end of the year in which they were originally secured."

The copyright term of the author's life plus 70 years applied to works "created and fixed in a tangible medium of expression on or after January 1, 1978." That wouldn't apply to Snow White because it was published in 1937. Also the life plus 70 years applies to individuals not companies. "For works made for hire and anonymous and pseudonymous works, the duration of copyright is 95 years from first publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter (unless the author’s identity is later revealed in Copyright Office records, in which case the term becomes the author’s life plus 70 years)."

Don't take any of this as trying to be authoritative on when the copyright in Snow White expires. I wouldn't have a clue.

I'm still confused by your assertion that "every movie Disney made up until the late 90's could not have been made under todays copyright laws that Disney bribed, er... persuaded, to be changed." Perhaps you mean that Disney could not have relied upon the Brothers Grimm story because it would have been under copyright. I don't think so. The last Grimm brother died in 1867 so if the life plus 70 rule had been in effect at that time, the copyright in Snow White would have expired in 1933.

I guess I just don't see the problem. Even if Disney lobbied Congress in 1976 (a time when Disney was not exactly at the height of its strength as a commercial venture) to extend the copyright term, Disney was protecting its IP rights. I don't like paying royalties any more than you do but I enjoy experiencing creative works many of which would not be made but for copyright protection.
 
Even if Disney lobbied Congress in 1976 (a time when Disney was not exactly at the height of its strength as a commercial venture) to extend the copyright term, Disney was protecting its IP rights. I don't like paying royalties any more than you do but I enjoy experiencing creative works many of which would not be made but for copyright protection.

Copyright laws can be complex when going back that far (i.e. Snow White). 1976 was the current frame work but there have many updates since, including the "harmonization act" in 2002. The WikiPedia page, if you can stomach it's length, tries to lay it out but even then it's not exactly light reading.

My main point was / is , virtually every movie made prior to the 90's couldn't have been made under the current (as of 2014) copyright laws. Technically Snow White *may* have been but it wouldn't even be a question if a company owned the Ip as opposed to the Brothers under current laws and obviously the Bothers would have created a LLC or corp if that was the case back then.

Does anyone really think a 120 year copyright is a good idea? Ultimately, as more bribes aka contributions and consulting positions, continue, we'll see these extend to cover more and more things, including medicines and common everyday items.
 
Does anyone really think a 120 year copyright is a good idea? Ultimately, as more bribes aka contributions and consulting positions, continue, we'll see these extend to cover more and more things, including medicines and common everyday items.

Well, looking at the face of digital and music copyright, lawyers will be busy for years to come, lol. Any of the music superstars of today, with all their copyrights and such being placed on their music, will be getting paid centuries after they're dead and gone...
 
Asking whether 120 years for a copyright term is a good idea is always fair. The term must be balanced against the cost to make, produce and distribute under today's finances.

As it stands now, however, medicines and "common everyday items" are not protected by copyright and I am not aware of any effort to extend copyright protection to these items. Patent terms (which typically apply to new medicines) are still relatively short. Trademarks can last indefinitely, of course, depending on a variety of factors but trademarks laws don't prohibit competing products or works, they just prevent consumer confusion.

I don't think I can agree that "virtually every movie made prior to the 90's couldn't have been made under the current (as of 2014) copyright laws." Movie rights for a successful book are often negotiated by agents. Dan Brown has made a killing off of Ron Howard's adaptations.

Well, looking at the face of digital and music copyright, lawyers will be busy for years to come, lol. Any of the music superstars of today, with all their copyrights and such being placed on their music, will be getting paid centuries after they're dead and gone...

Lawyers are busy enough as it is. At least, that is my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
I don't think I can agree that "virtually every movie made prior to the 90's couldn't have been made under the current (as of 2014) copyright laws." Movie rights for a successful book are often negotiated by agents. Dan Brown has made a killing off of Ron Howard's adaptations.

I suppose my thoughts on that sort of run together, I should have been a little more clear. When referencing "Walt Drawing on napkins" and Snow White, for those who know the story, Walt and Roy were in the poor house prior to Snow White, it's a rags to riches story so to speak and they almost lost everything trying to beg / sell / borrow that movie to completion. There wasn't a penny for royalties or permissions back then. They just did it.

Considering the authors were long dead, I have no issue with that. My issues are with the hypocrisy by the Disney corporation post Walt and Roy.
 
Well, looking at the face of digital and music copyright, lawyers will be busy for years to come, lol. Any of the music superstars of today, with all their copyrights and such being placed on their music, will be getting paid centuries after they're dead and gone...
Exactly.

There is a great TED talk on the 8 billion dollar IPOD from a few years back.
http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod?language=en

"Copyright Math"

When the RIAA and MPAA can claim copyright infringement cost 373,000 jobs in the US when the entire industry has never even employed that many people.

It's a lie.

I encourage everyone to watch this amazing TEDtalk http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod?language=en
 
I read the complaint and, as Jack noted, its a bit difficult to tell just what it is that Disney is infringing on just from that read. Thanks to Jack for the link to the actual patents. I'm hoping that will make things more understandable. ETA: amused that two of the "students" in the 705 patent is Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck.

Wondering how long Disney has to respond to the complaint.
 
I've tried reading InCom's patents but my eye's glaze over. In any patent, the important part it the "claim" as that is where the applicant sets out exactly what they claim for their patent. I'm just not seeing how Disney infringed on anything claimed in these patents. The 705 is designed to gather RFID signals in mass, but magic bands are almost always used by putting it in close proximity to a reader. (Now Disney may have plans for mass reading of magic bands, but that isn't complained about in the complaint.] Another patent seems to seek protection for putting padding behind the lanyard holder that holds the RFID card. I"m having a hard time seeing that as being non-obvious.

But I won't claim to know squat about the technology.

I also did a Google patent search for "RFID Disney" (without quotes). I gave up. Disney has obtained far too many patents on their RFID technology for me to track. And legally, that doesn't matter any, it was just a hope that I could contrast InCom's technology with Disney's.

What did interest me was that, so far as I could tell with a text search, none of Disney's RFID patents even uses the word "attendance" which seems to be the hallmark of InCom's claim.
 
Wondering how long Disney has to respond to the complaint.

21 days from the date Disney is officially served with the lawsuit papers or 60 days if the plaintiff asks Disney to waive formal service of process. Extensions of time are common.

And speaking of Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, InCom's lawyer writes a blog and one of his blog posts starts with a Disney drawing of the characters from Up. Not exactly fair use.
 
I read the 779 patent about the RF "focusing" technology. As you may know one of my hobbies is Amateur Radio Operator (aka Ham Radio) and I hold an Extra class license that required me to learn a lot about radio technology. Nonetheless, I'd differ to Mike (K5JMH) in the area of current RF technology. Even with the knowledge I have in that area, it doesn't seem to me that they actually have done anything new in that patent. Basically they put the antenna behind a RF "window" to limit its field. Thats nothing new.
 
I have two degrees in music performance. I would be happy if I could just understand why my iPhone and car stereo randomly select music to play when connected by Bluetooth. Despite all my efforts, my car and iPhone will "shuffle" from a song on the soundtrack to Guardians of the Galaxy to the CSO's recording of Ravel's Alborada Del Gracioso.

I will unquestionably defer to you and Mike about radio frequency tech.
 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I wonder if @jcb has an update as to the status of this action.
 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I wonder if @jcb has an update as to the status of this action.

On October 22, 2015, the court issued an order dismissing the lawsuit because of doubts about whether the plaintiff sued the correct Disney entity.

MINUTES (IN CHAMBERS) GRANTING Motion to Dismiss by Judge Philip S. Gutierrez granting 22 MOTION to Dismiss: The Court agrees that the parties should continue to resolve the issue of which Walt Disney entity is the proper defendant for this action. This Court is not the place for that resolution. Local Rule 7-3 exists so that parties may resolve these issues before asking the Court to address the merits of their motions. Plaintiff may re-file its claim once it determines which entity allegedly infringed its patents. The Court DISMISSES the Complaint, with leave to amend. The amended complaint must be filed by November 25, 2015.​
 
Thanks Jack. The deadline for amending the complaint is rapidly approaching.
 
May I assume those are in addition to a law degree? :-)

It's worse, I actually am licensed to practice law. Two music degrees and a law degree (alone) won't get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
 
Interesting patents for attendance tracking.. should be an interesting case to follow...
 

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