Disney's $1 billion dollar bet on magical wristband - Wired

lockedoutlogic · Mar 30, 2015

DDLand said:
Though your simplification is not accurate either. Since 2010 the company has doubled D&R profits. The economy has not doubled in size during the period. Not even close.

I have two suggestions:

Go back and compare ticket, menu, and room prices from say...2005 until today

Check and see if you can find measurements on what average Americans have been spending on travel since 2010 (most of it on credit...they're still paying)...

Or...if you don't want to do that...keep digging

It's close to "definition of insanity" time around here

clsteve · Mar 30, 2015

DDLand said:
Alright, we'll leave it there CLSteve.

As I gave this disclaimer in my lengthier post to you:

It's the best business indicator we've got CLSteve. In light of the fact they've been reporting their numbers this way for years, it makes a good year to year comparison. That's what we're were after. Though you'd never complained about using Pre Tax Profit before. In fact you were lobbying to use a system of measuring business performance based on that same indicator.

"Just sayin"

We'll leave it here.

Hey, I'm all for comparing revenue gains as percentages (which we were doing), or operating income or comparing margin percentage as a better indicator, but comparing volume isn't. And I'm just not a fan of declaring either at record profits since neither has said that and we can't tell. That's all. And all I was getting at.

Besides, Ill bet if we check both company's 10K's, their last ones showed their highest P&R op income value to date for both of them. So, what does that volume really show?

Comparing what each had as a percentage from the previous year, sure that's absolutely valid - maybe with some adjustment to make sure both are accounting for deprec the same, for example.

clsteve · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
It really should...at this point you'd have a better chance of proving the theory of realitivity

No physics. Please, no physics...

Just got finished with the Pinewood Derby and have had my fill of calc'ing center of mass, center of gravity, friction, and the like for at least another year. Those other dads are crazy competitive.....

lockedoutlogic · Mar 30, 2015

clsteve said:
No physics. Please, no physics...

Just got finished with the Pinewood Derby and have had my fill of calc'ing center of mass, center of gravity, friction, and the like for at least another year. Those other dads are crazy competitive.....

Sorry...my bad

clsteve · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
Sorry...my bad

Yeah, I miss the days of just cut the car out, let the kid slap some paint and stickers on it, then just slap on the wheels with a squirt of graphite and just race

I swear some of those dads are buying wind tunnels and testing paint polymers. It's worse than Little League these days....

Planogirl · Mar 30, 2015

I think that people simply want to go to WDW, warts and all. They want the characters and classic rides and so on and THAT is what is selling. I doubt that most people care about magic bands one bit but maybe they should.

This discussion makes me happy that we normally buy passes from an outside concern and we spend only cash (yes real money!) in the parks. I guess that we don't contribute to the stats.

lockedoutlogic · Mar 30, 2015

Very true, indeed, PlanoG...

Well put

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

Planogirl said:
They want the characters and classic rides and so on and THAT is what is selling..

Exactly, the rest is just noise for the most part.

lockedoutlogic · Mar 30, 2015

jade1 said:
Exactly, the rest is just noise for the most part.

True...if the "unending" supply of first time visitors doesn't run out...

DDLand · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
I have two suggestions:

Go back and compare ticket, menu, and room prices from say...2005 until today

Check and see if you can find measurements on what average Americans have been spending on travel since 2010 (most of it on credit...they're still paying)...

Or...if you don't want to do that...keep digging

It's close to "definition of insanity" time around here

Well you totally ignored the bottom half of my response.

DDLand said:
Though your simplification is not accurate either. Since 2010 the company has doubled D&R profits. The economy has not doubled in size during the period. Not even close. People have chosen to deploy their funds in increasing amounts at P&R at a faster rate then economic growth. That means the company is creating a compelling product.

People have certain amount of money to spend. They've looked at Disney, and have found value even in the face of increasing prices. The rising food and ticket prices only serve to prove my point. People are willing to pay the burden despite the hikes because they find value in the product. More then ever before guests are willing to deploy funds on Disney vacations. Disney's profits have grown faster then consumer spending and economic growth. This points out that now guests are actually spending more then they did pre recession. People find value in Disney vacations.

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
True...if the "unending" supply of first time visitors doesn't run out...

With 4 Million newborns a year in just America (128 Million WW)-probably won't run out.

Plus who said only first timers want that.

lockedoutlogic · Mar 30, 2015

jade1 said:
With 4 Million newborns a year in just America (128 Million WW)-probably won't run out.

Plus who said only first timers want that.

Where are they getting their jobs/money from to go to wdw?

I get this alot...20th century assumptions

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
Where are they getting their jobs/money from to go to wdw?

I get this alot...20th century assumptions

And that's assuming only first timers want the characters and classic rides.

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
Where are they getting their jobs/money from to go to wdw?

I know one guest that devotes all overtime to WDW trips, and another that devotes a 2nd job to it. Both could afford it without, but they want to enjoy it on a grander scale.

DDLand · Mar 30, 2015

clsteve said:
Hey, I'm all for comparing revenue gains as percentages (which we were doing), or operating income or comparing margin percentage as a better indicator, but comparing volume isn't. And I'm just not a fan of declaring either at record profits since neither has said that and we can't tell. That's all. And all I was getting at.

Besides, Ill bet if we check both company's 10K's, their last ones showed their highest P&R op income value to date for both of them. So, what does that volume really show?

Comparing what each had as a percentage from the previous year, sure that's absolutely valid - maybe with some adjustment to make sure both are accounting for deprec the same, for example.

I'm sympathetic to your volume argument. Very. As a fan of Apple, I'd seen the volume argument used against iPhone. Is it fair to compare an under $100 android phone to iPhone, which is more then 6 times as expensive? Nope. Those two products aren't in the same league. Now there was an angle I did agree with, comparing similarly priced and specced products to iPhone. Trying to argue there was no comparison between iPhone and and the latest Galaxy S phone was silly. Those two products are comparable because of price, specs, and target audience. They're both premium devices.

In the same way, Universal Studios Florida Park, and Magic Kingdom are similar. They're both in the same market. Both have similar pricing. They're both in the same business. They're one of the clearest cut comparisons of any product. Unless you're arguing that for some reason there's a major discernable difference between the two. I'd say the Resort linkup is the only advantage MK has. The flip side is MK is probably the reason the Resort hook up exists in the first place. Plus Universal is more accessible off the highway. Do explain why these two shouldn't be compared on volume?

Revenue Percentage growth is what you were talking about before me and Cormoran got off on profit. We can get back to that. I have issues using exclusively percentage revenue, because it fails to give proper perspective. For example, the Philippines has outgrown the United States on several occasions. Does that mean that any other country would trade for their growth over the US's? Nope.

The most comparable figures we have between the two companies comes from operating income before depreciation and amortization. (Universal doesn't make known it's full pre tax profit, and Disney doesn't make free cash flow available). Universal reported:

2014- $1,168,000,000
2013- $1,004,000,000
Growth= $164,000,000

Adding Disney's own numbers back into the mix brings it to:
2014- $4,135,000,000
2013- $3,590,000,000
Growth= $545,000,000

Universal Parks Revenue:
2014- $2,623,000,009
2013- $2,235,000,000
Growth= $388,000,000

Disney Parks and Resorts Revenue:
2014- $15,099,000,000
2013- $14,087,000,000
Growth= $1,012,000,000

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

lockedoutlogic said:
Where are they getting their jobs/money from to go to wdw?

That and the subject at hand has shown some very good ways to improve "guest choices", making the trips potentially more affordable for those that have smaller budgets.

FP+ will save Laketravis $20,000.

http://www.disboards.com/threads/my...e-almost-20-000.3376099/page-21#post-53287232

.

wallrock · Mar 30, 2015

jade1 said:
That and the subject at hand has shown some very good ways to improve "guest choices", making the trips potentially more affordable for those that have smaller budgets.

FP+ will save Laketravis $20,000.

http://www.disboards.com/threads/my...e-almost-20-000.3376099/page-21#post-53287232.

There's one small item you're missing - a job. One must have access to financial resources before going, and with enough disposable income to spend.

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

wallrock said:
There's one small item you're missing - a job. One must have access to financial resources before going, and with enough disposable income to spend.

Yes you do need a job as you have always needed. :confused3

Did I say you don't? But FP+ can help save a lot of money per LT.

Not sure you read this part that you "quoted":

making the trips potentially more affordable for those that have smaller budgets.

Planogirl · Mar 30, 2015

Did you notice that LT was only spending part of his time at the Disney parks? It's not all going to Disney.

That aside, salaries have been stagnant for a long time now so this notion that people somehow have more disposable income doesn't add up. Prices have certainly gone up everywhere and yet supposedly there is a wage problem.

jade1 · Mar 30, 2015

Planogirl said:
Did you notice that LT was only spending part of his time at the Disney parks? It's not all going to Disney.

That aside, salaries have been stagnant for a long time now so this notion that people somehow have more disposable income doesn't add up. Prices have certainly gone up everywhere and yet supposedly there is a wage problem.

I did notice he "chose" that yes, and FP+ will save him $20,000.

But what's your point-FP+ isn't causing stagnant salaries unless I missed something. :confused3

But "saving $20,000" with FP+ can be helpful for somebody with a stagnant salary.

This was the part, apparently you missed it as well:

"making the trips potentially more affordable for those that have smaller budgets."

.

Disney's $1 billion dollar bet on magical wristband - Wired

DIS Veteran

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I feel the nerd in me stirring

DIS Veteran

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

DIS Veteran

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

DIS Veteran

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

Mouseketeer

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

I feel the nerd in me stirring

I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

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