FP+... who hates it

goofyernmost · Mar 26, 2015

mom2rtk said:
Can't argue that Disney has the right to do what it wants with its FB page. But deleting the comments doesn't change the fact that the sentiments exist.

Agreed, but that sentiment doesn't apply to all, and unless someone has actually experienced it, it is a very negative thing. There are so many out there that blindly follow those types of posts and it is absolutely something that one needs to experience to know whether or not it works for them. When people are led around by the nose, it cannot help but leave a preconceived notion floating in their heads. It really can unnecessarily affect the perspective of a newbie.

The part that is missing from the expression of those sentiments is what is their basis. There are a lot of people that do not adjust to change well and will find everything negative that they possible can to support the frustration of change. That isn't a good reason to attempt to ruin the experience of someone without that burden. That is just one example of how others might decide they don't like something. It doesn't make it bad, but that is the way it is projected.

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

MrInfinity said:
Hi Ariel,
It was numerically impossible than any more than a tiny % of guests were pulling 6-8 useful FP-'s in a day.

People have covered this before much better than me. But if you show up, and pull a ticket, then legitimately do not pull another until you use your first, and you attempt to do this twice to hot rides like Soarin/TT, you will get 1, maybe 2 tickets in a day.

I did not mention anything about Epcot. I specifically mentioned MK, and MK only.

Also, the assertion I was replying to was not what % of guests were pulling 6-8 FPs/day, but what extent of knowledge was required in order to do so. Those are two different things.

You only get 6-8 if you knew what you were doing.

In Epcot or DHS, yeah. Which is why I said nothing about those parks. I specifically said MK. It did not take extensive knowledge to pull 6 FPs/day in MK. Saying that it did is hyperbole that is no better than the hyperbole directed at FP+ like only being able to ride 3 rides w/o long waits.

goofyernmost · Mar 26, 2015

Angel Ariel said:
I just do not understand this idea that legacy required a ton of learning to use well. I'd consider 6-8 fps using it well, and there was no crazy amt of.learning required. Put in ticket, get fp...fp says what time to pull another, pull fp at that time...repeat throughout the day. Maybe it is because we were doing full days in the parks...but we easily did at least 6/day in MK. no special strategies, or knowledge...just pulling fp, reading them, and getting another when the paper said we could.

The hyperbole regarding both systems really doesn't help anything at all.

Legacy didn't require a lot of "learning". It just required a lot of time and even more decision making then the new system. Yes, it was easy to go to the kiosk and get a FP, if they were available, but that was a big if. If the time on the FP conflicted with say an ADR, then you had to wait for the time that would work to come up and/or leave and come back later to get a better time. There's enough walking around that place as it is and the worst part is that you could take all that time and still not get one because they were out of the one you wanted and had no way of knowing that until you got back to the kiosk. It was easy to understand, but, it was a PITA to always be gearing up to get another one.

mom2rtk · Mar 26, 2015

goofyernmost said:
Agreed, but that sentiment doesn't apply to all, and unless someone has actually experienced it, it is a very negative thing. There are so many out there that blindly follow those types of posts and it is absolutely something that one needs to experience to know whether or not it works for them. When people are led around by the nose, it cannot help but leave a preconceived notion floating in their heads. It really can unnecessarily affect the perspective of a newbie.

The part that is missing from the expression of those sentiments is what is their basis. There are a lot of people that do not adjust to change well and will find everything negative that they possible can to support the frustration of change. That isn't a good reason to attempt to ruin the experience of someone without that burden. That is just one example of how others might decide they don't like something. It doesn't make it bad, but that is the way it is projected.

So if people are so easily led around by the nose, I wonder why they aren't being led into liking the new system?

goofyernmost · Mar 26, 2015

mom2rtk said:
So if people are so easily led around by the nose, I wonder why they aren't being led into liking the new system?

Because as I stated in my first post... the negative is a lot louder then the positive. If you're happy with things you are not likely to be as vocal as those that oppose it. Human nature at work.

MrInfinity · Mar 26, 2015

Angel Ariel said:
I did not mention anything about Epcot. I specifically mentioned MK, and MK only.

Well, in the MK ppl are reporting pulling FP+'s all day long. But 8 FP-? I dunno... that could be done, but it would take some serious know-how. That's more than one every 2 hours, and the time delay on pulling one after another is 2 hours. In a 10 hour day, that would be 5. To get 8 you'd have to have studied unlinked systems and other caveats that are against the rules as published but not enforced. Very few guests got this many. I'd guess less than 0.1% of guests consistently pulled 8 FP-'s in a day at the MK.

goofyernmost said:
Legacy didn't require a lot of "learning". It just required a lot of time and even more decision making then the new system. Yes, it was easy to go to the kiosk and get a FP, if they were available, but that was a big if. If the time on the FP conflicted with say an ADR, then you had to wait for the time that would work to come up and/or leave and come back later to get a better time. There's enough walking around that place as it is and the worst part is that you could take all that time and still not get one because they were out of the one you wanted and had no way of knowing that until you got back to the kiosk. It was easy to understand, but, it was a PITA to always be gearing up to get another one.

Yeah most ppl on vacation do not go around geared up to pull a next ticket, always plotting how to get on the next ride most efficiently. Most guests just pick a ride and go on it. FP+ suits them extremely well because it's practically handed to them.

Jennytoon · Mar 26, 2015

MrInfinity said:
Well, in the MK ppl are reporting pulling FP+'s all day long. But 8 FP-? I dunno... that could be done, but it would take some serious know-how. That's more than one every 2 hours, and the time delay on pulling one after another is 2 hours. In a 10 hour day, that would be 5. To get 8 you'd have to have studied unlinked systems and other caveats that are against the rules as published but not enforced. Very few guests got this many. I'd guess less than 0.1% of guests consistently pulled 8 FP-'s in a day at the MK.

OK, I'll say it before someone else does (maybe) ... you may be right about the % of guests who consistently pulled 8 FP- in a day, but not about what it takes to do it. Remember that you could also get a new FP- when your return window opened, and often that was a lot less than 2 hrs earlier in the day. No caveats or unlinked systems required.

mom2rtk · Mar 26, 2015

goofyernmost said:
Because as I stated in my first post... the negative is a lot louder then the positive. If you're happy with things you are not likely to be as vocal as those that oppose it. Human nature at work.

That still does not explain the recent spike in complaints. Human nature has always been human nature. Something else must be driving the recent change in people's reactions.

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

Jennytoon said:
OK, I'll say it before someone else does (maybe) ... you may be right about the % of guests who consistently pulled 8 FP- in a day, but not about what it takes to do it. Remember that you could also get a new FP- when your return window opened, and often that was a lot less than 2 hrs earlier in the day. No caveats or unlinked systems required.

Exactly. Thank you, Jenny

I've never been commenting on what % of guests did it. That wasn't the assertion I was responding to. The assertion was about the extent of knowledge required to do so. The *max* amount of time before one could get another FP was 2 hrs. We rarely actually waited 2 hrs b/w FP windows. For more headliner rides in MK, in *our* experience, we usually had about 1 hr to wait until the window opened and we could pull another FP. For rides like Buzz it was frequently 20 mins or so later.

No caveats, no unlinked systems..just using the FPs as written on the FP itself.

Planogirl · Mar 26, 2015

I see some arguing about sampling and whether some group is really representative of users as a whole. Who can tell but what other option is there besides sampling? You'll never get everyone to voice their opinions. That is if you can even define who "everyone" is.

There is the old saying that for every 1 complaint about 10 unsatisfied people didn't complain but is that true? And if it is does it apply to themepark visitors?

I agree with the poster who said that many of us are just making things up. Me included.

MrInfinity · Mar 26, 2015

Jennytoon said:
OK, I'll say it before someone else does (maybe) ... you may be right about the % of guests who consistently pulled 8 FP- in a day, but not about what it takes to do it. Remember that you could also get a new FP- when your return window opened, and often that was a lot less than 2 hrs earlier in the day. No caveats or unlinked systems required.

Yeah I didn't say it was impossible, and it's definitely doable if you're there more than 10 hours. Some days are 12 or 14 hours. But I still think extremely few guests pulled this many. I used FP- a ton and I don't think I had use for 8 in a day. I just don't think I pulled that many, I just either had other things to do, or whatever. In 3 MK days, that would be 24 FP- tickets, and FP- was only offered on certain rides, I don't think we'd want to have ridden the mountains 24 times in 3 days. On my May trip, I was easily able to use rope drop with few lines, use my 3 FP+ during the midday, and pull 2 or 3 more after that, and we'd be good. That's riding everything we want, plus things that would not have worked under FP-.
For example if FP- were in existence, both SDMT and A&E would be rope-drop-worthy pulls, and an hour or two wait, without a ticket. But with FP+ you can easily pull both. Thus where FP+ comes up short in max number of rides, I think it makes up by more proactive choices.

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

But I still think extremely few guests pulled this many

No one has argued that point.

FP- was only offered on certain rides, I don't think we'd want to have ridden the mountains 24 times in 3 days

Legacy was available for more than the (at the time) 3 mountains.

MrInfinity · Mar 26, 2015

Angel Ariel said:
MrI: But I still think extremely few guests pulled this many
Ariel: No one has argued that point.

Then why would you argue that this should be the standard experience, now? Since FP+ does not generate an experience that most guests never experienced... how does that make FP+ bad? You said that you used to pull 6-8 FP-. So you and a few others excluded... how does that make FP+ bad as a system? FP- was not known for the typical experience being 8 tickets a day. FP+ is not either. But FP+ does make 3 in a day extremely easy, and that is more than most guests pulled before. Even 5 or 6 is very doable at the MK via FP+. (we did 3+2 with hardly any effort) I just don't see why FP+ is so bad. It works as it's intended to in my opinion. It does not create an uber-experience for a few guests and nothing for others, but if it did that it would be the failure that FP- was.

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

MrInfinity said:
You said that you used to pull 6-8 FP-. So you and a few others excluded... how does that make FP+ bad as a system?

I have not been comparing legacy and FP+ this evening. I commented on the hyperbole of saying that one had to learn the system extensively to get "decent use" out of it. I consider 6-8 FPs in MK decent use, and it did not require "learning the system extensively" in order to do that. No disconnected FP knowledge, no caveats - just using the system as anyone who read the FP they received could do. That is *all* I said. What number of people chose to do so is a completely different discussion than the amount of knowledge was required to do it. I don't consider reading the FP in my hand and getting another FP when it said I could to be an extensive amount of knowledge.

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

goofyernmost said:
Legacy didn't require a lot of "learning".

I agree.

It just required a lot of time and even more decision making then the new system. Yes, it was easy to go to the kiosk and get a FP, if they were available, but that was a big if.

I think this very much depended on when you visited (as it does with FP+ as well). We visited in March and October 2013 and had no problems getting FP in MK all day long, and well into the evening.

If the time on the FP conflicted with say an ADR, then you had to wait for the time that would work to come up and/or leave and come back later to get a better time.

Can't say we ever waited for a time to come up. I honestly don't know that we ever ran into a situation where what we wanted to pull was conflicting with an ADR. But we tend to do dinner ADRs, not lunch ones, which I think helped in that regard. We toured by lands, so we didn't do criss-crossing the parks (no FP runners either).

AriesAriel · Mar 26, 2015

SmithSmith said:
I've been trying to follow you, but I'm a bit lost.

Why couldn't you modify just your son's FP selection? Because he's a minor?

Yes. Once I canceled him off of Anna & Elsa, he was just dangling. I couldn't just pick a new FP for him because it said he needed someone over 18 with him. Well I had someone over 18 to put him with, but it wouldn't just let me add his one person onto my sister's pre-existing FP. I needed to put him WITH her. But since she had already chosen her FPs, I couldn't just add him. Trust me, it was ridiculous. And this mama was a bit panicked worrying what her 7yo was going to do while everyone else rode their rides. It took me 2 hours to just give up, delete my sister's FP selections for the day & add him to her group for all. They are doing 2 rides with us, just the one different because they don't care to meet E&A.

I should not have had to delete her passes to simply add a 7yo into her group. I am saying this logically as someone who understands computer systems & databases. They made it harder than it needs to be!

The other thing that is more difficult than it needs to be is the requirement to choose 3 at one time. Why? Why can you NOT make one at a time? This is what compounded the above problem.

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

AriesAriel said:
Yes. Once I canceled him off of Anna & Elsa, he was just dangling. I couldn't just pick a new FP for him because it said he needed someone over 18 with him. Well I had someone over 18 to put him with, but it wouldn't just let me add his one person onto my sister's pre-existing FP. I needed to put him WITH her. But since she had already chosen her FPs, I couldn't just add him. Trust me, it was ridiculous. And this mama was a bit panicked worrying what her 7yo was going to do while everyone else rode their rides. It took me 2 hours to just give up, delete my sister's FP selections for the day & add him to her group for all. They are doing 2 rides with us, just the one different because they don't care to meet E&A.

I should not have had to delete her passes to simply add a 7yo into her group. I am saying this logically as someone who understands computer systems & databases. They made it harder than it needs to be!

I ran into that problem when I was trying to schedule FP+ for my friends in November. Their DD was 5, and I couldn't get their FP+ for A&E at 60 days, so I started trying to do the 1 person overlapping times as I was searching/coordinating with DISers to get those elusive A&E before their trip. I ended up going into the MDE account information and changing their DD's age to 7 (the age at which it would let me schedule her separately). Then I was free to book their DD a single FP with an overlapping time w/her parents. it was definitely frustrating!

AriesAriel · Mar 26, 2015

I didn't know it would let me do it at 7!! (he's actually 6.5) That would have been useful to know as well!!

Angel Ariel · Mar 26, 2015

AriesAriel said:
I didn't know it would let me do it at 7!! (he's actually 6.5) That would have been useful to know as well!!

I can't remember where I found that out...somewhere on here probably? I think it was age 7 anyway...whatever it was, it was still a child age (nothing that would change their ticketing, room or dining costs at all!)

SmithSmith · Mar 27, 2015

Angel Ariel said:
I ran into that problem when I was trying to schedule FP+ for my friends in November. Their DD was 5, and I couldn't get their FP+ for A&E at 60 days, so I started trying to do the 1 person overlapping times as I was searching/coordinating with DISers to get those elusive A&E before their trip. I ended up going into the MDE account information and changing their DD's age to 7 (the age at which it would let me schedule her separately). Then I was free to book their DD a single FP with an overlapping time w/her parents. it was definitely frustrating!

AriesAriel said:
Yes. Once I canceled him off of Anna & Elsa, he was just dangling. I couldn't just pick a new FP for him because it said he needed someone over 18 with him. Well I had someone over 18 to put him with, but it wouldn't just let me add his one person onto my sister's pre-existing FP. I needed to put him WITH her. But since she had already chosen her FPs, I couldn't just add him. Trust me, it was ridiculous. And this mama was a bit panicked worrying what her 7yo was going to do while everyone else rode their rides. It took me 2 hours to just give up, delete my sister's FP selections for the day & add him to her group for all. They are doing 2 rides with us, just the one different because they don't care to meet E&A.

I should not have had to delete her passes to simply add a 7yo into her group. I am saying this logically as someone who understands computer systems & databases. They made it harder than it needs to be!

The other thing that is more difficult than it needs to be is the requirement to choose 3 at one time. Why? Why can you NOT make one at a time? This is what compounded the above problem.

Thanks for clarifying! Okay, I think I got it now.

One more question. IF you had the child's age set at 7 and IF you hadn't accidentally cancelled their A&E FP+, then would you have been able to modify just their selection even though everyone else in the party was scheduled for a different attraction?

I hope that made sense...

TIA

FP+... who hates it

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