LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

fuzzylogicllc said:

Plano, you know just like Hokie said, that those who like FP+ were not in any way saying FP- was horrible. I have repeatedly stated that I loved loved loved FP-. It was awesome. I could pull tickets, I never waited in line, etc. I knew things could be so good. You here imply that to like FP+, one must not have known how good it was. Back to the "less-educated" thing that you brought up before, and was met w a lot of resistance (because it is so rude to imply that if you like FP+ you didn't know things could be so good, or that you knew things could be so good, but others don't, so they like FP+). I knew FP-. I've been going to WDW/DL for almost 40 years. I used FP- as well as any.

But when it comes down to it, my experience with FP+ was really... not any worse. For all the hype. Users read these boards and think it's awful. But then I go... and I go on ride... after ride... after ride. All with short waits. No longer standby lines. No 90 min wait for everything. No hour for Figment. None of that. Headliners multiple times, secondary rides countless times, tons of dining, fixed ticket events, etc.

Really, what I conclude is that... FP+ has not significantly changed squat.
It's still Disney World, we still have a great time, we still ride about the same number of things.

* It moved the race from morning-of to 60-days out (which I like) This means nothing to me. I prefer not to plan so much but it's not real relevant in the overall scope of things.
* It saves me time pulling tickets in park, or crossing from Soarin to TT to pull a ticket to come back later (which I like) I had no issue getting passes in the old way.
* It gets me access to the most desirable attractions because I stay onsite (which I like) I think that anyone that buys a pass should get equal access.
* It lets me plan days that were never before possible, like getting FP's to A&E and SDMT in one day penciled in around breakfast and BBB (which I like) You like to plan, me not so much.
* I spent more time w my family (which I like) My family always went with me to get passes.
* Upon completion of one ride, we did not feel like we had to hi-tail it to the next to grab that next ticket (which I like) I grabbed passes before riding something. It wasn't difficult.
* This made for more relaxed feel, for we had all our valuable tickets pulled in advance (which I like) I respect that.
* It made the rest of our days more spontaneous, because it got us on certain must-do's w/o effort. (which I like) I felt that I made no effort to speak of before.
* I can change my day on my phone (which I like) I don't carry a phone. I use a phone extensively when at work and prefer not to on vacation.

Do you not get that FP+ is really good in a LOT of ways -- for some people who are very experienced theme park guests? So many ways that the negatives of not getting TT and Soarin are FAR overshadowed by the benefits.

Now you can reply to every one of those bullets and say "nope, doesn't matter to me. Nope. Nope. Not this one either." But it doesn't matter. The reasons, either all, or in part, are why FP+ is being accepted in general.

The constant negativity seems way out of place. Especially given that you, Jimmy, Lake, and others are still going anyways. If it's a dealbreaker for you, don't go. Otherwise, strategize w me about how to use FP+ even better, given we will be using it, like it or not.

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Even though you said that my thoughts don't matter, I will still respond to your bullet points. See above.

As for going or not going, I've explained that adequately. We are visiting Disney parks for two days which is bizarre considering our past. I don't expect that amount of time to increase.

DisneyKidds said:

Indeed. What would Landbaron think of FP+?!?!? I still keep in touch with some of that crew, been doing fantasy sports leagues with a bunch of them since back in the day.

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And Another Voice. I never did find out who that was.

The Pirate pops up occasionally but I don't remember seeing too many of the others much.

Hokie2000 said:

Right, so if Avatar is the end of new ride construction for awhile then I agree with your premise. And I don't think a new Soarin theater counts, because that would just be a band-aid to solve Epcot's Tier 1 woes. If new rides are built then I don't think it was a cost-cutting measure. I do think it was implemented to entice people to lock-in to their vacations and invest more time planning, which should result in more profits.

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It's funny but all of this notion of locking in people into more time in the parks worked just the opposite for us. I see a scenario of riding our favorite things and then leaving to do other things. Offsite of course.

JimmyV said:

New FP+ marketing tagline...

"Fast Pass Plus--First Timers Don't Know Any Better!"

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Be careful. You'll be chastised for saying such things.

fuzzylogicllc said:

Yep. Yet... you have a trip to WDW planned... in which on your arrival day you have time to do one ride... at one park, having an AP to both Universal and Disney. And which ride is that you choose? Hint... no... it's not Gringotts. It's SDMT. You even went out of your way to get Fast Passes to it in advance.

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And I believe that I've already explained to you, more than once, that the reason I booked an FP for 7DMT for this coming Friday evening is because I wanted my exercise/experiment/test to reflect the preferences of the average guest, and I'm fairly certain the average guest would be trying for an FP for 7DMT even though I wouldn't. And I'm also fairly certain that I've already explained to you that since I was successful in getting that FP, I would most likely change it to something else. Selective memory? Dunno. I think it's pretty clear that I'll have more than enough time for more than one ride, so I don't know where you are coming up with that either. Maybe it makes for a good post? Dunno.

But to refresh your fuzzy memory, here's a summary of our plans for this Friday evening from that thread:

We'll be arriving in Orlando 3/6 and can begin reserving FP's tomorrow. Late flight doesn't land until 7:50pm so the agenda for the first evening will be fairly light. We won't be able to take advantage of EMH at Epcot but MK is open until 11pm for all so I'll make our FP reservations there. Per ArwinMarie's advice, we'll eat on the plane.

Staying at Rosen Shingle Creek resort, Google Maps indicates it is 14 minutes from MCO, and then 15 minutes to the MK gate. I originally estimated we could collect luggage and rental car, head to Rosen, check into and leave the Rosen and be thru the gate at MK by 9:20pm but several have pointed out how unpredictable traffic can be and how long it could take to get into MK after parking. So I've decided to incorporate two suggestions; one is to simply proceed directly to MK from MCO and check into the Rosen later, and the other is to do valet parking at CR ($20, free if you have a handicap plate or sticker) and take the short walk over to MK. Both are excellent suggestions that will save us a lot of time and perhaps even allow us to make the first FP. EasyWDW has the day at a Crowd Level 6 with MK recommended.

7:30am at the 30 day mark I was able to reserve FP's for:

Haunted Mansion: 8p-9p (this is our sacrificial FP if we don't get to it in time)
7DMT: 9p-10p
Space Mountain: 10p-11p

It took several iterations of time and order to get these FP's to look this way. At first, it didn't appear there was anything available for 7DMT after 7p but once I was able to move SM to the end of the night it introduced several new choices for the other two. So definitely move the times of your choices around to see what new ones are revealed.

This will finalize our first night's itinerary as follows:

Arrive at MK and proceed directly to Haunted Mansion if we've arrived before 9pm, 7DMT if we haven't, then watch Wishes at 10P, proceed to Tomorrowland for SM, catch CoP or PeopleMover on exit (doubtful there will be time for this but we'll see) and proceed to main Hub for MSEP at 11p.

Not too bad for 90-120 minutes at MK on our first night. Net cost in the park: $0 Valet parking: $20


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I actually like the idea of being able to book FP ahead of time. I'm down here until Sunday and have found it very easy to cancel FP's for one day that I originally booked them for and find them for another day that I want instead.

Laketravis said:

And I believe that I've already explained to you, more than once, that the reason I booked an FP for 7DMT for this coming Friday evening is because I wanted my exercise/experiment/test to reflect the preferences of the average guest, and I'm fairly certain the average guest would be trying for an FP for 7DMT even though I wouldn't. And I'm also fairly certain that I've already explained to you that since I was successful in getting that FP, I would most likely change it to something else. Selective memory? Dunno. I think it's pretty clear that I'll have more than enough time for more than one ride, so I don't know where you are coming up with that either. Maybe it makes for a good post? Dunno.


.

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Wow, I didn't realize that you only had a few days left. I hope that you'll report your thoughts when you come back!

Planogirl said:

Wow, I didn't realize that you only had a few days left. I hope that you'll report your thoughts when you come back!

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Yeah, it's sneaking up on me pretty quickly

This will be a test run for the real "More for Less" in June. I'm going to be trying a lot of different strategies that are new to me so I'm already preparing to take a copious amount of notes.

Believe it or not, I'm really looking forward to seeing just how long it's going to take to get the rental, get to WDW, park, and see if we can make that first FP.

I'm also looking forward to determining how leaving a WDW park mid-day to travel to USO compares to park-hopping within WDW.

Not to mention eating offsite at some places I've missed or never tried and staying at two different resorts and one condo to compare value/quality/convenience.

And saving money, of course. Lots of money.


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Mikie said:

My comment is in response to criticisms directed at vocal FP+ supporters who sometimes get asked "Why do you insist on trying to change my mind?" And I'm kind of admitting I would like to change their minds a little. One, it's the system we've got and if you could learn to like it, your enjoyment of Disney wouldn't be damaged. Two, strictly in the sense of how it makes *me* feel (I recognize no one can MAKE anyone feel anything; my feelings are mine to own) when I was planning a first FP+ trip, I saw the negative reviews as largely:

visitors CAN'T have the same experience any more
it's simply a FACT that you CAN'T get as much done
you get 3 good rides and the rest of your day is extremely long lines
you'll be tied to a schedule you can't change
park hopping is no longer viable (this one seems to have changed over the months to swing in favor of FP+)

I am fairly confident that these things were often actually said, but I will concede that it's possible it's just how I took the comments (not interested in searching out months old quotes)

I assure you, I'm not trying to suggest AT ALL that detractors not post. . . I can learn a lot from other people's negative experiences and I'm even entertained by these debate threads. I don't want anyone to stop posting their negative views - I'm hoping that some of those negative views can be turned into positive ones! (See More for Less. . . ) But within these threads, many people ask why we bother to continue the debate and keep repeating similar arguments. I'm saying the reason I bother to post is because I hope that other people will not be pre-emptively dreading their trip; I hope that no one else gets the impression that I got that the negatives of FP+ were indisputable facts; I hope to be encouraging to people who are here looking for tips; I hope that the recent reader who hasn't been following all this for months will still hear both sides of the story.

I assure you, I'm not insisting on only pretty clouds and sparkles and I wish you wouldn't use phrasing like that to try to belittle people who have a different view than yours. My desire to express a positive doesn't mean I'm asking anyone to stop expressing their honest opinion. I'm not asking anyone to NOT post their view - I'm stating my positive view and simultaneously explaining why I personally, bother to beat this particular dead horse.

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Mikie, I can't agree more. The presentation that the things you state are the experience one will get really bugs me. Because millions of people are having magical times in WDW. I likewise don't mind anyone else posting... but I do take offense when I'll concur that yes those who have a gripe do have a legit gripe... but that is not met in return. And then because someone doesn't like it and used to get on TSMM 5x a day, they say the system is flawed and a typical guest will be so distraught that they can't have fun unless they don't like headliners.

Then I'm told since I like it, I just see things with rainbows and sparkles. Disney World is still the same place. The crowds are the thing that determines the line lengths. Lots of people have fun. If flicx isn't even going because she thinks she'll have a miserable time... that's so strange. Really? Because you can't jump a few lines you'll have a not-worth-going time there? Other people say they leave the parks in resignation, or plan to go to entirely other places. That's great if that's what you want, but if you're like me, and you love Disney World, then it would seem more useful to learn how to use FP+ like we all learned FP- at one point. It's just starting the learning process over. And it does work. It just does not replicate certain very specific touring styles of days past.

Mikie said:

My comment is in response to criticisms directed at vocal FP+ supporters who sometimes get asked "Why do you insist on trying to change my mind?" And I'm kind of admitting I would like to change their minds a little. One, it's the system we've got and if you could learn to like it, your enjoyment of Disney wouldn't be damaged. Two, strictly in the sense of how it makes *me* feel (I recognize no one can MAKE anyone feel anything; my feelings are mine to own) when I was planning a first FP+ trip, I saw the negative reviews as largely:

visitors CAN'T have the same experience any more
I couldn't
it's simply a FACT that you CAN'T get as much done
I couldn't
you get 3 good rides and the rest of your day is extremely long lines
Not for us since the long lines just discouraged us from staying...so no more long line
you'll be tied to a schedule you can't change
Was for us
park hopping is no longer viable (this one seems to have changed over the months to swing in favor of FP+)
We had 7 day hoppers but were so frustrated we didn't use them
I am fairly confident that these things were often actually said, but I will concede that it's possible it's just how I took the comments (not interested in searching out months old quotes)

I assure you, I'm not trying to suggest AT ALL that detractors not post. . . I can learn a lot from other people's negative experiences and I'm even entertained by these debate threads. I don't want anyone to stop posting their negative views - I'm hoping that some of those negative views can be turned into positive ones! (See More for Less. . . ) But within these threads, many people ask why we bother to continue the debate and keep repeating similar arguments. I'm saying the reason I bother to post is because I hope that other people will not be pre-emptively dreading their trip; I hope that no one else gets the impression that I got that the negatives of FP+ were indisputable facts; I hope to be encouraging to people who are here looking for tips; I hope that the recent reader who hasn't been following all this for months will still hear both sides of the story.

There are absolutely 2 sides as I said in my original post. But imho you seem to be suggesting that all "other people" will have positive experiences. That just isn't reality. And Im sorry but I think it is awfully condescending for you to be suggesting that those who have negative views should have their views "turned into positive ones". We're all adults here and are all capable of deciding what we like and don't like"

I assure you, I'm not insisting on only pretty clouds and sparkles and I wish you wouldn't use phrasing like that to try to belittle people who have a different view than yours. My desire to express a positive doesn't mean I'm asking anyone to stop expressing their honest opinion. I'm not asking anyone to NOT post their view - I'm stating my positive view and simultaneously explaining why I personally, bother to beat this particular dead horse.

Wasn't trying at all to belittle you...it just seemed to me that you were asking for only positive posts and that is how I see that type of request.

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See quote above for response

Luckybee said:

See quote above for response

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Apologies - I meant in no way to be condescending. I'm not trying to say you or any other FP+ detractor is "wrong" or that I want to "fix" your opinions. I do not want to artificially have you "drink the Kool Aid" and suddenly see rainbows and unicorns. I would like it if any detractors could find a way to live with or even like Disney under the new system that we have now, not because I don't want to hear the honest criticism, but because it's what we've got and I sincerely hope you (general you) will find strategies that make a WDW vacation enjoyable for you. I wish for the benefit of anyone looking for tips or any current detractors that they figure out a way to make the best of what we've got and could therefore have an honest positive experience. I'm not asking anyone to be quiet or to turn into Stepford Tourists.

I guess it comes down to the fact that it has always been the case that some vacationers will enjoy Disney no matter what. Some vacationers who do not plan (or who get bad planning advice) will have a terrible time when they are there - under any system. Vacationers who are looking to plan in advance may come to the DIS looking for tips and my goal when I bother to post is to not say "this is the part that sucks". . . end of sentence. My goal is to say "here's what works for me and hopefully you can replicate it". I don't know your personal posting history or opinions other than the couple of quotes you directed at me, so my statements about what *I* am doing are no comment whatsoever on what you do or don't post.

JimmyV said:

New FP+ marketing tagline...

"Fast Pass Plus--First Timers Don't Know Any Better!"

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Maybe the name is setting expectations too high.

Perhaps they should call it a "Faster than the Stand By Line Pass."

Laketravis said:

Yeah, it's sneaking up on me pretty quickly

This will be a test run for the real "More for Less" in June. I'm going to be trying a lot of different strategies that are new to me so I'm already preparing to take a copious amount of notes.

Believe it or not, I'm really looking forward to seeing just how long it's going to take to get the rental, get to WDW, park, and see if we can make that first FP.

I'm also looking forward to determining how leaving a WDW park mid-day to travel to USO compares to park-hopping within WDW.

Not to mention eating offsite at some places I've missed or never tried and staying at two different resorts and one condo to compare value/quality/convenience.

And saving money, of course. Lots of money.


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Have a great trip.

Mikie said:

My comment is in response to criticisms directed at vocal FP+ supporters who sometimes get asked "Why do you insist on trying to change my mind?" And I'm kind of admitting I would like to change their minds a little. One, it's the system we've got and if you could learn to like it, your enjoyment of Disney wouldn't be damaged.

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I can only speak for myself here - but while I don't love FP+, I don't hate it either - I'm "meh". I see advantages, I see disadvantages. I've experienced both. To be entirely honest, no one on the DIS is going to change my mind about the system. The only thing that will change my mind about the system is having a different experience with it than we did on our last trip. A good portion of that is educating myself on how to better use the system, which is why I'm here. I made mistakes in our planning last time, and I'll fix them on our next trip and hopefully not have any different issues pop up. Someone could tell me their experience was the complete opposite of mine, and nothing but absolutely wonderful - and it isn't that I don't believe them (I do), but it doesn't change my own experience. I can learn from theirs, and do try to, but no amount of someone telling me how amazingly awesome their experience was is going to change that my personal experience with the system was "meh." It isn't about comparing it to legacy, or re-riding attractions (as we never really rode much of anything more than twice anyway, and even those were few)..it was just our experience with trying out this new system and trying to use it as it was advertised.

All that said, my enjoyment of Disney was not in any way damaged. I love Disney. FP+, legacy, or no FP at all. Not loving this one aspect of a Disney vacation doesn't mean I no longer enjoy WDW. I will do whatever I need to do to adapt and enjoy Disney because it is very special to me, and I'm pretty stubborn about the things I love

Angel Ariel said:

I can only speak for myself here - but while I don't love FP+, I don't hate it either - I'm "meh". I see advantages, I see disadvantages. I've experienced both. To be entirely honest, no one on the DIS is going to change my mind about the system. The only thing that will change my mind about the system is having a different experience with it than we did on our last trip. A good portion of that is educating myself on how to better use the system, which is why I'm here. I made mistakes in our planning last time, and I'll fix them on our next trip and hopefully not have any different issues pop up. Someone could tell me their experience was the complete opposite of mine, and nothing but absolutely wonderful - and it isn't that I don't believe them (I do), but it doesn't change my own experience. I can learn from theirs, and do try to, but no amount of someone telling me how amazingly awesome their experience was is going to change that my personal experience with the system was "meh." It isn't about comparing it to legacy, or re-riding attractions (as we never really rode much of anything more than twice anyway, and even those were few)..it was just our experience with trying out this new system and trying to use it as it was advertised.

All that said, my enjoyment of Disney was not in any way damaged. I love Disney. FP+, legacy, or no FP at all. Not loving this one aspect of a Disney vacation doesn't mean I no longer enjoy WDW. I will do whatever I need to do to adapt and enjoy Disney because it is very special to me, and I'm pretty stubborn about the things I love

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Perfect! I'm not very eloquent, but that's the back-and-forth I hope for. I wouldn't expect any supporter's STORY to change any "meh" or "detractor" people's opinions, but I would hope that hearing about the positive experiences makes someone believe that they ARE possible, and hopefully to glean tips on how to replicate a positive trip for themselves. I love that you said you didn't like the way FP+ affected your trip, but that you've learned (through personal experience or DIS info) ways you might change your approach to improve your next trip. So valuable for a newbie or for someone like me who had a good trip once, but can learn from other people's pitfalls. A far cry from "It stinks! There's no denying Disney is now a worse experience! If you're satisfied with paying more for less, go ahead, but otherwise you should try a different destination!"

As for me, I'll say that I wouldn't likely dislike the whole concept of FP+ so much if there wasn't so many other things about WDW that disappoint me nowadays. It just seems to be another hassle in my eyes.

Mikie said:

Perfect! I'm not very eloquent, but that's the back-and-forth I hope for. I wouldn't expect any supporter's STORY to change any "meh" or "detractor" people's opinions, but I would hope that hearing about the positive experiences makes someone believe that they ARE possible, and hopefully to glean tips on how to replicate a positive trip for themselves. I love that you said you didn't like the way FP+ affected your trip, but that you've learned (through personal experience or DIS info) ways you might change your approach to improve your next trip. So valuable for a newbie or for someone like me who had a good trip once, but can learn from other people's pitfalls. A far cry from "It stinks! There's no denying Disney is now a worse experience! If you're satisfied with paying more for less, go ahead, but otherwise you should try a different destination!"

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There is no question that wonderful experiences are possible and I haven't heard one fp detractor say that wasn't the case from the beginning of fp+. The issue though isn't whether it is "possible" . The issue for each person is whether fp+ is good/bad or indifferent for THEM . We have newbie friends going in March. Call them L and S . I know them well...they are going to hate fp+ but I still expect them to have a good time because I've helped them tweak their plans. For years they heard me speak about going to a MK for 4 hours or so and getting through a ton of rides without outrageous lines. I've always been a big proponent of going in lower season. Knowing what I saw in Sept I expect unless things have drastically changed that wont be happening and I know that they want to have a lot of pool time. I now suggested rd and they are not at all interested in that idea responding with a "are you nuts ? " lol !
So I've convinced them that they can have fun doing just a few rides, and other out of park things I know they'll like. That way when we all get home I wont hear "why in heavens name do you like the place".
They'll see MK and parades, and fireworks, and Epcot, and get a few rides in those parks, (and also get to Universal and the Malls, and Tampa and the beaches) and all in all have a good vacation but not one that will be completely Disney focused.
Fp+ wont work for them to do a multitude of rides because I know S and she has as little patience as I do .( She thought it sounded "neat " to book rides in advance until I told her about standby lines. ) But the other things in addition to Disney will allow them to have a good trip overall. I've also downloaded apps for them, explained 4th fp's etc etc etc. so that if they are so inclined they can switch things around or stay in the parks longer. I somehow don't expect to see that but one never knows.
If they were doing Disney only I would be talking them out of it...because I know it wouldn't be a good fit. That was the original plan...now they're seeing more of Florida, more of Orlando and well more of what we're now doing on our trips. That's how we make fp+ work for us and anyone that Im assisting.
For us Disney is a worse experience than before...doesn't make it bad for others, doesn't mean we wont still do it in small doses as part of a different sort of trip...maybe. It's still something I think people should do at least once.

MaryKatesMom said:

We live about 2 hours from Hershey and we do buy their tour guy for the day. We also stay at Portofino Bay so we get their FOTL passes. But what can you do or buy to get more FP's? And WDW is way more expensive than the others and although the properties are nice not a reason to spend all that money.

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So you're willing to pay the $. That's cool - like I said, I'm cheap, haha.

Aren't there WDW tours where you can get FOTL access to rides? Ultimate thrills or something like that? I'm not familiar w/ Hershey, what's their tour guy? I know BG just has something similar to USO's Express Pass, I've just never used it.

Hi Lucky,
Thanks for this post. It resets the conversation nicely (along w Ariel's)...

Luckybee said:

There is no question that wonderful experiences are possible and I haven't heard one fp detractor say that wasn't the case from the beginning of fp+. The issue though isn't whether it is "possible".

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You know, it's certainly presented that way. Such that you can have a good time, sure. Maybe you don't like rides! Someone who doesn't like rides could certainly have a great time using FP+. Or... maybe you like to shop! Or... maybe you like to stand in lines w your nose buried in your phone for hours, and maybe you like being on hold with Disney tech support. There are lots of reasons one might have a good time -- right? But it's never because... You'll have a good time going on lots of stuff because of FP+. All the good times are presented "in spite of" FP+.

You make an example, right here: Fp+ wont work for them to do a multitude of rides because I know S and she has as little patience as I do. See? Because she's impatient, she won't like FP+. a.k.a., unless you're okay with long waits, FP+ will be inherently something an impatient person would not like. That's not right. You can both like short lines, and like FP+, because FP+ helps you to get short lines. You have to remember that most guests always waited standby. So this is a big +3 for almost all guests. I get that it's not for you and me, but for most guests, like L and S, it is a +3 over what they would have thought.

Luckybee said:

The issue for each person is whether fp+ is good/bad or indifferent for THEM .

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Well, okay. But, when someone comes out to ask for advice, to share that you don't like it is not helpful. Or to share that one cant like it unless you're patient and don't mind lines isn't helpful. Many impatient people, myself included, find great benefit in it.

Luckybee said:

We have newbie friends going in March. Call them L and S . I know them well...they are going to hate fp+ but I still expect them to have a good time because I've helped them tweak their plans. For years they heard me speak about going to a MK for 4 hours or so and getting through a ton of rides without outrageous lines. I've always been a big proponent of going in lower season. Knowing what I saw in Sept I expect unless things have drastically changed that wont be happening and I know that they want to have a lot of pool time. I now suggested rd and they are not at all interested in that idea responding with a "are you nuts ? " lol! So I've convinced them that they can have fun doing just a few rides, and other out of park things I know they'll like.

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Ok so why do you think they'll hate FP+? You acknowledge right up front their challenge is not FP+, it's that they're going in March, and you -- like me -- make a point of going in slower times. So right off the bat, your history of going for 4 hours and getting thru a ton would not be doable for them on spring break. Why do you spin this as a FastPass fault? Why not... Oh man, it'll be so busy that week. I used to go on slow weeks and ride a ton. ? Since there will be wall to wall people, here's what I'd do... in the mornings, the crowds will be going here... you go... there. And....

Luckybee said:

They'll see MK and parades, and fireworks, and Epcot, and get a few rides in those parks, and all in all have a good vacation but not one that will be completely Disney focused.

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Why? If I was going, I'd ride a ton of stuff in every park. I just would. I would not accept "a few rides". That is craziness. I'm not going on vacation to ride a few things, and I won't. I just don't understand why you're selling them on getting so little done... It's like you want them to not like their experience before they've even gone. No it's not helping them to "lower expectations" ahead of time, because your expectations are vastly different. You came from a time of FP-, and you learned a very specific way of touring that most guests never did.

Luckybee said:

She thought it sounded "neat " to book rides in advance until I told her about standby lines.

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If she's been to a Six Flags, she probly gets standby lines. This is what most people will expect as standard.

Luckybee said:

I've also downloaded apps for them, explained 4th fp's etc etc etc. so that if they are so inclined they can switch things around or stay in the parks longer.

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I think you're getting too complicated. Information overload? No wonder you think it's overly planned. Look at all the stuff you're inundating these newbies with.

Why aren't you presenting this as... Look most lines are standby, but it's pretty cool because of their new system, you can pick 3 in advance and go right to the front of the line! All you do is download this app, and pick them like this... and then you can tweak the times... or the rides... like this... pretty cool, huh!? Oh... and one suggestion-- try to pick them sooner than later, cuz by about two weeks before, the rides will start getting picked over. Here let's just do it right now I can get you some cool ones! Yes... exclamation point, and several smilies because you now get to sit down w them and tell them all about Everest, Dinosaur, or all the rides you love. It's that simple. You could be sharing magic but you're sharing doom and gloom. Now FP+ is a benefit they'll look forward to instead of a chore they have to analyze.

Luckybee said:

For us Disney is a worse experience than before...doesn't make it bad for others, doesn't mean we wont still do it in small doses as part of a different sort of trip...maybe. It's still something I think people should do at least once.

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Alright, but to me, Disney World is an awesome, magical place that I loved as a kid, loved as a teen, and now share w my kids and love seeing thru their eyes. You seem to be so obsessed with the structure of FP+ and how it's not FP- that you've forgotten the fun. Just look at all your advice: Crowds. Lines. Waits. Problems. Find other things to do. Why do you think they'll only "all in all have a good vacation"... why is your instinct anything short of "You're going to Disney World -- I'm so jealous you'll have an amazing time!" They probably WILL.

fuzzylogicllc said:

Hi Lucky,
Thanks for this post. It resets the conversation nicely (along w Ariel's)...

You know, it's certainly presented that way. Such that you can have a good time, sure. Maybe you don't like rides! Someone who doesn't like rides could certainly have a great time using FP+. Or... maybe you like to shop! Or... maybe you like to stand in lines w your nose buried in your phone for hours, and maybe you like being on hold with Disney tech support. There are lots of reasons one might have a good time -- right? But it's never because... You'll have a good time going on lots of stuff because of FP+. All the good times are presented "in spite of" FP+.

You make an example, right here: Fp+ wont work for them to do a multitude of rides because I know S and she has as little patience as I do. See? Because she's impatient, she won't like FP+. a.k.a., unless you're okay with long waits, FP+ will be inherently something an impatient person would not like. That's not right. You can both like short lines, and like FP+, because FP+ helps you to get short lines. You have to remember that most guests always waited standby. So this is a big +3 for almost all guests. I get that it's not for you and me, but for most guests, like L and S, it is a +3 over what they would have thought.


Well, okay. But, when someone comes out to ask for advice, to share that you don't like it is not helpful. Or to share that one cant like it unless you're patient and don't mind lines isn't helpful. Many impatient people, myself included, find great benefit in it.


Ok so why do you think they'll hate FP+? You acknowledge right up front their challenge is not FP+, it's that they're going in March, and you -- like me -- make a point of going in slower times. So right off the bat, your history of going for 4 hours and getting thru a ton would not be doable for them on spring break. Why do you spin this as a FastPass fault? Why not... Oh man, it'll be so busy that week. I used to go on slow weeks and ride a ton. ? Since there will be wall to wall people, here's what I'd do... in the mornings, the crowds will be going here... you go... there. And....


Why? If I was going, I'd ride a ton of stuff in every park. I just would. I would not accept "a few rides". That is craziness. I'm not going on vacation to ride a few things, and I won't. I just don't understand why you're selling them on getting so little done... It's like you want them to not like their experience before they've even gone. No it's not helping them to "lower expectations" ahead of time, because your expectations are vastly different. You came from a time of FP-, and you learned a very specific way of touring that most guests never did.


If she's been to a Six Flags, she probly gets standby lines. This is what most people will expect as standard.


I think you're getting too complicated. Information overload? No wonder you think it's overly planned. Look at all the stuff you're inundating these newbies with.

Why aren't you presenting this as... Look most lines are standby, but it's pretty cool because of their new system, you can pick 3 in advance and go right to the front of the line! All you do is download this app, and pick them like this... and then you can tweak the times... or the rides... like this... pretty cool, huh!? Oh... and one suggestion-- try to pick them sooner than later, cuz by about two weeks before, the rides will start getting picked over. Here let's just do it right now I can get you some cool ones! Yes... exclamation point, and several smilies because you now get to sit down w them and tell them all about Everest, Dinosaur, or all the rides you love. It's that simple. You could be sharing magic but you're sharing doom and gloom. Now FP+ is a benefit they'll look forward to instead of a chore they have to analyze.


Alright, but to me, Disney World is an awesome, magical place that I loved as a kid, loved as a teen, and now share w my kids and love seeing thru their eyes. You seem to be so obsessed with the structure of FP+ and how it's not FP- that you've forgotten the fun. Just look at all your advice: Crowds. Lines. Waits. Problems. Find other things to do. Why do you think they'll only "all in all have a good vacation"... why is your instinct anything short of "You're going to Disney World -- I'm so jealous you'll have an amazing time!" They probably WILL.

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A Serious question, how can you argue that one person sharing their view with friends is wrong because it isn't as positive as you would like, but you sharing a more positive view of WDW is great?

That's all I read here, your spin about how FP+ is great, and therefore what the PP is sharing with friends is wrong, despite that some of it exactly relates to the outcome of the system.

Its perfectly helpful to share with someone what you don't like or that you don't like something in general when they ask for help or advice. It's certainly more helpful then glossed over super fun time spin pretending there are no downsides to the new system or that everyone will get an awesome experience, or even that everyone -can- get an awesome experience.

Shaden said:

A Serious question, how can you argue that one person sharing their view with friends is wrong because it isn't as positive as you would like, but you sharing a more positive view of WDW is great?

That's all I read here, your spin about how FP+ is great, and therefore what the PP is sharing with friends is wrong, despite that some of it exactly relates to the outcome of the system.

Its perfectly helpful to share with someone what you don't like or that you don't like something in general when they as for help or advice. It's certainly more helpful then glossed over super fun time spin pretending there are no downsides to the new system or that everyone will get an awesome experience, or even that everyone -can- get an awesome experience.

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You quoted Fuzzy, but I agreed with his post (well, maybe not the smilies and exclamation points because I'm unlikely to talk that way. . . ), so I hope it's ok that I jump in. It must be a matter of outlook. . . If I were a newbie and my expert friend said "you CAN'T do a lot of fun things at Disney anymore, here's where you should go instead", it ends the conversation. Having them say "you can't have a trip identical to what I've been telling you about my past trips in the same way I achieved them before, but here's what you CAN do. . ." helps them plan a great Disney trip that still includes LOTS of attractions and is NOT reduced to 3 rides and shopping. There's still plenty of room for "here are the pitfalls to avoid or work around" (a discussion of the negatives) without falsely telling someone that Disney is by definition full of long lines and minimal attractions accomplished. Why isn't it helpful to tell them that everyone -can- get an awesome experience, and here's how? Isn't that why they asked for advice?

This is assuming a person who asked for the help by saying "I want to go to Disney - can you help me plan a great trip?" Which may be a very different answer from "I want to take a vacation, do you recommend Disney?" Perhaps that's a bad assumption on my part. . .

fuzzylogicllc said:

Why aren't you presenting this as... Look most lines are standby, but it's pretty cool because of their new system, you can pick 3 in advance and go right to the front of the line! All you do is download this app, and pick them like this... and then you can tweak the times... or the rides... like this... pretty cool, huh!? Oh... and one suggestion-- try to pick them sooner than later, cuz by about two weeks before, the rides will start getting picked over. Here let's just do it right now I can get you some cool ones! Yes... exclamation point, and several smilies because you now get to sit down w them and tell them all about Everest, Dinosaur, or all the rides you love. It's that simple. You could be sharing magic...

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And to think I was chastised for using the term "Pollyannaish".


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Mikie said:

....Why isn't it helpful to tell them that everyone -can- get an awesome experience, and here's how?...

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Because I'm not the WDW Marketing Department. If someone asks me for advice/thoughts/opinions on WDW, I'm going to tell them what I see as the good and the bad, what to take advantage of and what to avoid, what to buy and what not to waste their money on, etc. and trust that they will draw their own conclusions.


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