Could DW Parks be Expanded?

Just a quick reply to address some clarifications, I may expound more later....

wallrock said:

I'm not following you here. Are you implying that the parking lot by the TTC is filled with cars driven by guests from other onsite resorts?

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No, I'm saying that there are many, many guests who chose to stay off-site (or are locals). They park at the TTC and most use the monorail to get to the MK (and a few no doubt to Epcot). My contention is that adding buses + ferries to carry all those people into the MK will cost more than doing the same with the existing monorail. If the monorail does indeed service 100,000 passenger trips per day, that's a lot of buses and a lot of bus trips back and forth...

You on the other hand seem to be under the misapprehension that everyone who goes to WDW stays on-site in a WDW resort.

No argument here. Differing opinions are always welcome. On the expense I'll refer back to my earlier comment about what true impact the absence of the monorail would be on transportation, and not a combination of all transportation options.

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But if you are going to replace the monorail, you have to look at all possible transport options to do so. The only possible non-resort ones are ferries and buses. It is the cost of those two combined, vs. continuing to use the monorail, which determine whether it is economical to continue to run and eventually upgrade the monorail trains. You have to get those people from the TTC parking lot to the MK somehow.

To counter, I would be interested in your earlier comment about the six to one ratio on bus vs monorail drivers.

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I was only comparing the number of drivers to each other in the two cases. It takes about 6 buses (likely more like 12 buses, given the longer time a round-trip bus would take (including loading/unloading time)) to replace one monorail train. And to reiterate here, I'm mostly talking about the "express loop" that just takes guests from the TTC to the MK and back. Not the resort or epcot loop.

I think what's forgotten is the staff required to maintain the monorails outside of mechanics and drivers. Ever count how many castmembers are at each monorail stop?

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You're right, I neglected the 4-6 cast members that work at each monorail stop. If we're talking the express loop, that's 12 cast members. If there are two trains running on the express loop, that's 6 extra cast members per train, or 7 total with driver, for a total of 14. So yes, that would be two more cast members total than 12 buses, assuming there would be ZERO cast members at any of the bus stops. That seems unlikely.

How often the shift changes are (I personally don't know)? How many are in traffic control? How many are dedicated to maintaining the track? There's more than a driver and a mechanic to address.

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Yes, but I think you will find that it takes a lot more people than just a driver and a mechanic to keep a bus running. To claim that that is all that is required is not correct.

wallrock said:

A matter of interpretation. 'Futuristic' implies something related to, well, the future. When something has been around for half a century any sort of futuristic implications don't hold water in my book.



Lubricant was an example. I haven't put forth a green for green comparison between the transportation methods, just stating that the monorail is far from carbon free.



You're right. Monorails never stop or sit idle.



I never stated that the monorail was unreliable, but it is indeed more of a logistical pain when one goes down in comparison with a bus.




It's a transportation system that services only a fraction of the guests, all of which have alternatives to get to those same destinations. And to some of the other comments, does it 'service' 100K per day? Or perhaps a percentage of those just ride it for fun? It's still more of an attraction than a transportation system.



It will never suit their needs to expand the system. Again it's about the dollars, and Team Mickey can't extract them from you while you're on board and Burbank has to spend too many of them on the monorail whether it be expansion or maintenance.



Many attractions are part of the experience yet Disney shuts the doors on them. The monorail is no different. And if recent behavior is any indication, the 'fear' of Burbank that you mention - assuming you are referring to any potential, or should I say further, slashings in Orlando - is certainly warranted. Unless of course you don't count the recent closing of attractions while continuing to send prices into the stratosphere. And speaking of Anaheim, that's a whole different animal. Disney pays attention because the devotees there speak with their wallets.



Once again it isn't about the guest's emotional attachment. Disney has done away with attractions in the past that had strong emotional attachment and didn't bat an eye.



Another matter of interpretation. You say it's an E-ticket and I don't. When there's a four hour wait to ride it just for the sake of doing so then I might agree with you. Disney profits when you swipe your credit card (or magic band) in the giftshops - that's always been the cornerstone of profitability in the parks. I'll play my record from an earlier post - the monorails don't dump you into a giftshop and there's no merchandising potential. Don't think that guests were ticked off when 20K closed? Mister Toad's Wild Ride? Turning half of Future World into a ghost town? The masses still marched through the entrance gates regardless. The devoted fans won't fold up their tents and refuse to come back if the monorail goes away. Back to Anaheim - the fans would probably do it there.

The common denominator here is that Disney's behavior over the past decade and a half with Orlando has been about maximizing profitability with the least amount of investment, and it works. If it doesn't separate you from your money it's a candidate for removal - if the opportunity presents itself. The arguments I hear in favor of the monorail are valid, but I look at behavior and things that Disney is doing and not what I want to happen. They have larger capacity boats going from the resorts to the Magic Kingdom than in the past, they now have a bus route between the three resorts serviced by the monorail, the current system has been around for 25 years with only minor tweaks to keep the thing running. Fifteen years ago mold, stained carpets and rust would have been taboo. Today it's acceptable. I don't think the closure is going to happen tomorrow, but when the time comes to replace the core mechanics - and that time will come - I think you'll see them discontinued.

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To take the bait or not take the bait... What the heck I'll do it.

You're getting caught up in the micro of the argument. Look Macro. It's true the invention and first small scale implementation happened nearly 60 or more years ago. However, using this technology in practical applications is nearly non existent in America. It is a futuristic way of conducting mass transit. Few cities have adopted the monorail because they're stuck using technology little better then the 1940's. When I look at one of America's major Subways in NYC using train cars (cars not the rails) from the 1960's that's what prompts me to say Disney is still safely futuristic. You're right it's relative.

Carbon emissions that people talk about on the radio wouldn't occur from the lubricant anymore then a barrel of oil sitting around. The carbon has to be released into the air by burning. Monorail is all electric which means that it can be hooked up to any power source on the grid. Wind, Solar, Hydro, Nuclear, you name it the monorail can use it. This is in stark contrast to the diesel buses that are burning fuels no matter what.

Monorails do stop, but when they do they limit power consumption to a minimum. Buses, despite their best intentions are some of their least efficient when idling and waiting in traffic. Boarding is also more seamless and speedy saving time, energy, and money.

Alright, thanks for the clarification. Exactly, whenever it goes out it reaffirms just how valuable the system is. You may not have that risk on buses, but you also don't gain the benefits.

Think about this for a second. MK commonly breaks the 50,000 barrier. Now counting it like other mass transit systems would mean each person would equal two trips to go to MK and back. 100,000. Split that up between Monorail, Boat, and bus. You see how from just that one job not including Epcot, hotel transfers, multiple trips, people who ride it because they want to, the monorail could easily reach 50,000 to 60,000 thousand daily rider on MK lines alone. It's a transportation system. I also don't know how many people drive to Disney World, get on the monorail for a few laps, and then head home there are. I'd imagine not too many.

I said in my other post above how I feel about expansion. Not a good prospect. Continuing to operate and mantain high quality infrastructure is different however. It suits the needs better then any other transit system.

The only time Disney has recently closed attractions without forthcoming replacements are Wonders of Life and backlot tour. At least as far as I can remember. Let me know if I'm wrong about this. Still, the vast majority of closures have replacements already in the works before shutdown. You can't argue the product is worse then 5 years ago. The Disneyland guys would whine a little while if they shut down the monorail, but keep on going. It's not critical like WDWMS.

Ah, the Mr. Toad Fan Club. Even the most avid member would realize that it is not on the same emotional level as Monorail. The increasingly less popular attractions you mentioned were not almost universally loved like monorail. Here's the awesome thing about monorails. They don't usually have lines because they're so speedy an efficient. Spaceship Earth, Walt Disney World Railroad, and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad don't have gift shops and last time I checked were all still operating. Actually the monorail is one of the biggest merchandise opportunities around. Ever seen the toy monorail playset at every store, the monorail shirts, the monorail pins, or the monorail Vinelamations? It's actually comical you should point out one of the most exploited merchandise items as not being useful for branding.

Indeed, I understand your sentiments. However the facts say that it's beloved, speedy, reliable, iconic, marketable, hotel value increasing, cost effective for moving large groups of people, long lasting, and distinctly Disney. Hmm... What's not to like?

Eventually the mechanics will break down, and they'll fix them. Stained carpets and rust spots are a thing of the past as Disney redoubles focus into these trains.

I want to take my kids on the monorail someday, and I suspect I'll be able to do just that.

Late to the party but this is a thread I had to jump on! Anyhoo park expansions are a funny thing especially when it comes to the four Walt Disney World theme parks. Yet do a little digging and you can see where the expansions were planned.

Magic Kingdom - This park has the least expansion potential out of all the parks...sad to say. There is room for a new ride between Buzz Lightyear and COP....well actually the space was going to be used for a Tron coaster. Yes the idea was real. Guest entered through where Monster Inc Laugh Floor is located. Another expansion pad is between Space Mountain and the old Skyway Station. Between Storybook Circus and Tomorrowland is a little plot of land on the other side of the tracks. This is actually the only suitable land truly able to be used by Disney. They would need some form of way to get over the train, but it is possible and in the long term planning maps. There is not much after that. Some plans out there have the space between Adventureland and Frontierland marked for expansion. This would require rerouting of the parade route, but not something Disney seems to be interested in. The park is pretty muck blocked in at that point although they could do something if they truly wanted to.

Epcot - This one is a interesting one as well. Ok originally there was space for five pavilions on each side of Future World. Yep Five. Future World East of course has Energy, Health, Space and Transportation. Health was added, and the other spot between Mission:Space and Test Track was taken out when the outside portion of the ride was added. There were plans somewhere for a new festival pavilion to be placed...freeing up the Health pavilion. Sorian took up the pad between Imagination and the Land. The Hollywood themed pavilion was going to go there before MGM Studios was constructed in 1989. The only other plot available at this point is between the Seas and Land. A very small plot but is there to use. World Showcase of course has the area between Mexico and Norway (Well DID) Between China and Germany. (Room for two countries if they wanted) Germany and Italy. Japan and Morocco, Morocco and France, United Kingdom and Canada.

HS - This is one is the best because it has the most potential! Early plans called for a new entrance from across Pop, and making the Buena Vista entrance bus only. This would close the World Drive portion. Some of that land could be used. Parking garages could be built behind the current lots to expand into the Minnie and Goofy lot. The other two lots would remain lots. The land across World Drive behind the park could be used. Tunnels were planed that guest could walk to that side. That is long term stuff though and more if needed then anything.

Ak - Um don't know much here. The land north of Asia and East of RPW is able for a couple expansions. Theater in the Wild is also just a place holder in long term planning.

I know I am jumping in late here, but two thoughts on things already brought up. First, with respect to the monorail, I have been at WDW when the monorail shut down (about a year ago). It wreaked absolute havoc on transportation. You can make the argument all you want about the boats and buses managing the foot traffic, but they can't. Each one carries a certain percentage of the traffic, and none of them can carry enough extra load to handle one of them going down. It took over 90 minutes to get to the park on the day that the monorail went down. That was beyond infuriating. Did I still go? Yes, but if that was the new norm, I wouldn't go back.

As for park expansion, I think this is the place that Disney is actually starting to really create a problem for themselves. From my perspective, there are really only two places that I can't spend money at Disney - while transporting to the parks and while I am in line for a ride. If they are working to make the transportation piece quicker, or at least more reliable and with higher capacity, that solves that piece. However, in the parks, I feel like wait times are gradually increasing every year. I'm not going to do the math, but if you say the total ride capacity in the park is around 50,000 people per hour, and there are 50,000 people in the park, then your average ride wait time is 60 minutes. That is a ton of time that people aren't able to spend money in the parks. They would be better served to increase the total ride capacity (and not with all E-ticket rides, have you seen the line for Peter Pan or Winnie the Pooh?) at the park to get people through lines faster, while increasing the number of things for people to see. It would maintain that parks still take 2-3 days to see everything. You could then further expand them to have some shows/interactive rides that allowed customers to purchase something to interact or immediately following the ride (no more gift shops though). For example, the fireworks shows seem to coordinate with the mickey ears (I think) at times to coordinate lighting from the audience. You could have things like that for some of the other shows to make the kids feel like they are part of the show. If the same prop/toy worked in multiple shows, I would be more inclined to purchase it. Same goes for some of the meals. I choke on the prices for some of their nice meals. Not that they aren't good, but I have six people in my family and it costs a fortune. Let me have a dinner show, charge me a little more and give me the good meal. I would be all over that.

There are lots of places in all four parks to make both small and big expansions. It' s a little tight at DHS, but by simply moving the south entrance road (yes it would cost some money) a little further south, or with a tighter curve to the right, you can create lots of space behind Star Tours and the Indiana Jones Stunt Show. That, and there are tons of empty buildings to be used, and the wasted space around the backlot tour. SO many ideas in my head right now about how to make the parks better, and no one in charge who would listen.

George4 said:

I know I am jumping in late here, but two thoughts on things already brought up. First, with respect to the monorail, I have been at WDW when the monorail shut down (about a year ago). It wreaked absolute havoc on transportation. You can make the argument all you want about the boats and buses managing the foot traffic, but they can't. Each one carries a certain percentage of the traffic, and none of them can carry enough extra load to handle one of them going down. It took over 90 minutes to get to the park on the day that the monorail went down. That was beyond infuriating. Did I still go? Yes, but if that was the new norm, I wouldn't go back.

As for park expansion, I think this is the place that Disney is actually starting to really create a problem for themselves. From my perspective, there are really only two places that I can't spend money at Disney - while transporting to the parks and while I am in line for a ride. If they are working to make the transportation piece quicker, or at least more reliable and with higher capacity, that solves that piece. However, in the parks, I feel like wait times are gradually increasing every year. I'm not going to do the math, but if you say the total ride capacity in the park is around 50,000 people per hour, and there are 50,000 people in the park, then your average ride wait time is 60 minutes. That is a ton of time that people aren't able to spend money in the parks. They would be better served to increase the total ride capacity (and not with all E-ticket rides, have you seen the line for Peter Pan or Winnie the Pooh?) at the park to get people through lines faster, while increasing the number of things for people to see. It would maintain that parks still take 2-3 days to see everything. You could then further expand them to have some shows/interactive rides that allowed customers to purchase something to interact or immediately following the ride (no more gift shops though). For example, the fireworks shows seem to coordinate with the mickey ears (I think) at times to coordinate lighting from the audience. You could have things like that for some of the other shows to make the kids feel like they are part of the show. If the same prop/toy worked in multiple shows, I would be more inclined to purchase it. Same goes for some of the meals. I choke on the prices for some of their nice meals. Not that they aren't good, but I have six people in my family and it costs a fortune. Let me have a dinner show, charge me a little more and give me the good meal. I would be all over that.

There are lots of places in all four parks to make both small and big expansions. It' s a little tight at DHS, but by simply moving the south entrance road (yes it would cost some money) a little further south, or with a tighter curve to the right, you can create lots of space behind Star Tours and the Indiana Jones Stunt Show. That, and there are tons of empty buildings to be used, and the wasted space around the backlot tour. SO many ideas in my head right now about how to make the parks better, and no one in charge who would listen.

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The ears are involved in multiple shows, wishes, fantasmic, and the Osborne lights. They also released more products last year including a Mickey wand and Minnie head band. All three to along to the shows. There are several dinner shows that are worth I think the biggest one is the hoop de do revue. DHS is not tight they have some of the most expansion room at that park. Look it up you can find plans with expansion pads all over the internet.

Expansion does make by far the most sense...if they bother to do anything.

But the numbers on ride capacity and visitors don't play out.

You'd be surprised at how small a percentage of park guests are on or inline for a ride at a given time...probably 40% give or take...

Remember that they are large and offer much in the way of food/ shop/ waste time diversions...

So while you're correct that they don't want you in line because your dont spend... Identified in the original 1999 fastpass system...the rides aren't nearly that taxed on the whole. And they have high capacity rides.

"You'd be surprised at how small a percentage of park guests are on or inline for a ride at a given time...probably 40% give or take..."

New to these boards, so sorry for not knowing how to quote correctly. however, I would regard this statement as somewhat false, or at least misleading. Even if it were accurate, that would still imply that at MK for instance, on a busy day, that 20,000 people at any given moment weren't available to spend a dime. You are also discounting how long people stand in line for character meet-n-greets. While that is improving, families with young children are the ones more apt to spend money (I know I am), and those are the very same people that spend the most time in line. That's just not good thinking.

George4 said:

"You'd be surprised at how small a percentage of park guests are on or inline for a ride at a given time...probably 40% give or take..."

New to these boards, so sorry for not knowing how to quote correctly. however, I would regard this statement as somewhat false, or at least misleading. Even if it were accurate, that would still imply that at MK for instance, on a busy day, that 20,000 people at any given moment weren't available to spend a dime. You are also discounting how long people stand in line for character meet-n-greets. While that is improving, families with young children are the ones more apt to spend money (I know I am), and those are the very same people that spend the most time in line. That's just not good thinking.

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I think I'm probably oversimplifying and you're probably taking me too literally...

My point is that he suggestion that Disney has a problem because too many people are waiting in line or their aren't enough rides is Incorrect.

They are excellent at directing traffics the way they want it and maximizing returns. The parks were and still are designed to distribute crowds and it works well.

Nor only that...look at "my Disney experience" and try to book 3 rides in a park...it's often difficult to do because what the new system has proven brutally is that it's NOT about the rides.

Now...the bands are partly about reducing lines and streamlining you to the giftshops...no doubt. But I think it's more about reducing employees (definitely) and streamlining more visitors into the same stuff on the same days...

Which would Indicate a 100% opposite philosophy than "we're losing money because we don't have more rides!"

It's more like "lets really start to milk small world like we haven't these last 45 years!"

Misthunter210 said:

Hollywood studios:

Looks pretty blocked in unless you can figure out how to cut under the entrance road to the south.

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To expand Holllywood Studios, why couldn't they go over the road? Make a walking bridge. They can start an elevated walkway at the beginning of Tatooine Alley. Make it enclosed to hide the view of the rooftops, and even theme it. They could have fake "windows" showing whatever outside theme they wanted. It could be as big as a walkway or even make it a larger building housing some sort of attraction.

Honestly I think the better question here is should they be expanded? The answer is, at this juncture, no. Epcot is a shadow of its former self. Many rides in MK require extensive refurbishment/reimagining. Hollywood studios just needs help. I would really like to see this park geared to a slightly older and more adventurous clientele.

Edited to add: animal kingdom. Yeah, I try to like the park but it just isn't that thrilling for me.

JenLT said:

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To expand Holllywood Studios, why couldn't they go over the road? Make a walking bridge. They can start an elevated walkway at the beginning of Tatooine Alley. Make it enclosed to hide the view of the rooftops, and even theme it. They could have fake "windows" showing whatever outside theme they wanted. It could be as big as a walkway or even make it a larger building housing some sort of attraction.

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Going across the street is one of the expansion pads and has been discussed before. Another would be pushing back the parking lots or adding a parking garage. Plenty of space at DHS.

BlackMagicWoman said:

Honestly I think the better question here is should they be expanded? The answer is, at this juncture, no. Epcot is a shadow of its former self. Many rides in MK require extensive refurbishment/reimagining. Hollywood studios just needs help. I would really like to see this park geared to a slightly older and more adventurous clientele.

Edited to add: animal kingdom. Yeah, I try to like the park but it just isn't that thrilling for me.

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Yes all four parks should be expanded and could be expanded. They used to do this with already keeping their attractions new and fresh with refurbs. Now that is a different story but that doesn't mean they shouldn't expand. DHS especially. Disney is going to make parks appeal to the whole family not just an older crowd that's not how they work. Animal kingdom is one of the most detailed and beautiful parks there is. Yes it has a lack of rides but AK is so much more than that with the animal treks, animal care center, shows like finding nemo and FOTLK(best show on property in my opinion). Now add in new night time show coming night time safaris, avatar and Africa marketplace new restaurants etc. this will be a full day park.

To be clear I'm not saying they shouldn't expand, I'm saying right now. No.

I'm just not a trek through the forest kind of girl and I find that whole dinosaur carnival area perplexing. Plus they are already being ex

BlackMagicWoman said:

To be clear I'm not saying they shouldn't expand, I'm saying right now. No.

I'm just not a trek through the forest kind of girl and I find that whole dinosaur carnival area perplexing. Plus they are already being ex

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Right now yes they should expand. Capacity is about everything. Expansion would only bring more people and more ar as to the parks helping spread out the crowds.

When your park is closed SEVERAL days per year because you max out capacity, that is a problem (MK). When a large number of people consider your park a half-day park (DHS, EPCOT), that is a problem. When your park doesn't have enough to do for your youngest fans so they don't like going (debatable, but AK), then that is a problem. Disney should begin expanding these parks right away. Once you convince a family they don't need to visit your theme park, it will take a phenomenal amount of effort to get them to come back. We have several friends that have sworn they will never go back because of the lack of bang for their buck, or it was simply too many bucks.

Disney doesn't seem to be solving either one of those complaints.

George4 said:

When your park is closed SEVERAL days per year because you max out capacity, that is a problem (MK). When a large number of people consider your park a half-day park (DHS, EPCOT), that is a problem. When your park doesn't have enough to do for your youngest fans so they don't like going (debatable, but AK), then that is a problem. Disney should begin expanding these parks right away. Once you convince a family they don't need to visit your theme park, it will take a phenomenal amount of effort to get them to come back. We have several friends that have sworn they will never go back because of the lack of bang for their buck, or it was simply too many bucks.

Disney doesn't seem to be solving either one of those complaints.

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You have several valid points here...

The one about closure for capacity is not...so 1-2 parks close for a couple of hours in the middle of the day on 12/24-25,12/31, 7/4, and Memorial Day?

Is that an issue? You just don't go on those days... Everybody knows that... Or should have enough common sense to figure it out.
It's not worth 360 days of infrastructure to accommodate 5.

But beyond that...you do bring up great points.

The problem is they are longstanding problems that Disney doesn't particularly seem to care about.

The half day parks could be relegated to "feeder" parks by design... Concentrating people
Late in the day in the places where they can extract more money in already higher overhead places..mk, EPCOT, and downtown.

They haven't done much to studios in 25 years... And have been content to "limp
Along" with 10 million visitors a year..."oh the horror"

Animal kingdom...they seem to care. Why? Incredibly high overhead. It's not like they can put the elephants on a diet. But even there the effort overall has been half hearted at best.

What you say about "turning a family" off is dead on...it should be a major problem.

In some bizarro world, however, Disney seems to feel like there is an unlimited supply of new customers...with money.

That is beyond understanding and a frequent topic in this neck of the woods. Where are these people? I don't see it. They've begun to squeeze the core, repeat clientele...a dangerous tact that is in direct opposition with the strategy of the 90's...where most of their efforts were to develop that segment.
The problem there is that You can't sell reduced quality to a large "core" audience. They will cry foul...so you marginalize Them and force them away...
Back into their timeshare rooms your locked them into...

Or...maybe the "future" of the parks isn't a concern...maybe they already have a longterm drawback/exit from that market predicted and mapped out. Third party agreement and massive labor reduction...
Don't discount the possibilities of a company with a 50 mil salary CEO and a couple of billion shares floating around with a dividend.

Greed is good... As the statement goes.

This is a great monorail debate, all with very good points. What's disappointing is that this actually has to be a debate to begin with. We have been trained to worry about Disney walking away from the original vision of the parks because that vision won't move the stock price and then we'd have to go back to long term strategy, God forbid.

I do wonder if they keep an eye on things said on these websites. I don't want to guess what is said when/if they do........

jtwibih said:

This is a great monorail debate, all with very good points. What's disappointing is that this actually has to be a debate to begin with. We have been trained to worry about Disney walking away from the original vision of the parks because that vision won't move the stock price and then we'd have to go back to long term strategy, God forbid.

I do wonder if they keep an eye on things said on these websites. I don't want to guess what is said when/if they do........

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The concern is warranted. As this has been developing for a long time...
The last 5 quizzical years of the previous CEO and now a staggering 10 of his tanning booth replacement. "Les Moonves lite"

I'm worried...as if there was any doubt of that...lol

Do they pay attention? I'm sure There is some random desk...somewhere... Staffed by a 31 year old with 9 years experience at Disney with a $31,000 salary he's "real proud of" that tracks this... They love info...

But what deaf ears does it die with?
When the boss has a heated
Toilet of solid gold in his aspen ski lodge that he's only been to 3 times (hypothetically...)...where's the concern?

I think the current regime...for park fans...will be looked back upon as operating under a smoke screen. They really have made a fundamental shift in the park experience - especially Florida - but haven't been questioned NEARLY enough...
And the "screen" was all that property acquisition... The "great healer" with Pixar (as if that wasnt gonna happen)...and marvel...and Lucas...

It's given too much street cred...for the part that's on the street.

That Star Wars movie better not be crap

jtwibih said:

This is a great monorail debate, all with very good points. What's disappointing is that this actually has to be a debate to begin with. We have been trained to worry about Disney walking away from the original vision of the parks because that vision won't move the stock price and then we'd have to go back to long term strategy, God forbid.

I do wonder if they keep an eye on things said on these websites. I don't want to guess what is said when/if they do........

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Disney, UNI etc. they watch what's said on forums mainly the major ones. They aren't looking for what guests want really just making sure big things don't leak when they aren't supposed to and stuff like that.

Applying band aids to situations like WDW has done recently will only bite them long term. There may seem like an unlimited number of first time visitors that won't notice but that number has to be significantly lower in the last 10 years than anytime before that simply because of the discount structure put in place after 9/11. At some point, someone will have to answer for all of the short term decision making that has caused the place to fall apart. That being said, most of Corporate America is doing the same thing so who knows...........