Heartbreaking news...a big reminder to be aware of wildlife on property

[Mickey28]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that most American Alligators are not man eaters and do not attack humans out of the water. Almost all accounts of attacks by American alligators are done while the people were actually in the water.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humani...gator-attacks-are-there-in-the-united/1185694

WDW has been open for 45 years and to my knowledge this is the first incident of this nature to happen on property. For all of the millions of people who have been to WDW in 45 years to have never had an attack there was no reason for Disney to think such a tragedy would happen.
With that said there was a recent report of a species of Nile Crocodiles being reported in Florida which are man eaters and will come out of the water to grab "prey". My question, is it possible one of these Nile Crocodiles has made it onto property and that is what they are dealing with here? People get these exotic animals from other parts of the world and can no longer care for them and release them into the wild. This is a growing problem in Florida such as the population growth of the Burmese Python in the wild in Florida and other species not native to USA.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-eating-nile-crocodiles-found-florida/story?id=39253783

 

[Jake&IzzyLand]

Perhaps instead of a No Swimming sign there could be a DANGER Stay Out of the Water sign. To me that does not leave much room for interpretation. If I were at a beach and there was a No Swimming sign I would feel that walking at the water's edge or slightly in the tide would be reasonable. Swimming to me means being partially submerged in the water and actively swimming. But we do not know at this point what sign they saw if any.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I have a question. If the child and family were walking next to the water and not touching it at all,couldn't the gator have still done this? Prayers to the family

Yes, it could still happen. It just happened twice down here where I live but it was dogs that were taken. One was snatched while being walked on a leash by waters edge. Other ran between its owner and gator, gator got the dog instead. Neither of these people or dogs were in the water

 

[Bullseye]

I imagine they will change the signs and maybe add some barriers but I heard those would not keep gators out but perhaps deter people? I saw kids wading in that water all the time and it worried me. I do not let my kids touch the water or go near shrubbery but mainly due to snakes not gators and not knowing what is in the water. (mainly because I spend too much time on these boards and have heard about snake bites before) In ten trips I have never seen a gator. I knew they were on property though and have read recent reports of them being near Splash Mountain. My heart breaks for this family. What a terrible accident. I do not see how you can keep alligators 100% out.

"No Swimming" is a far cry from "Dangerous/Deadly Wildlife---No Swimming!"

I agree the signs will change. Possibly to something like Titan indicated "Stay out of Water-Dangerous/Deadly Wildlife" Just a week ago when we were watching wishes from Poly there was a small child playing in the water about two feet from shore. I was slightly agitated because you're not supposed to be in the water at all, but I have to admit the likelihood of a gator grabbing him didn't really cross my mind. As you indicated, I always tell my family to stay on the beaten path at resorts due to stories you hear about snake bites and such from people that wandered where they shouldn't. If anything they may put up some barriers for people rather than wildlife. Possibly something like a three foot high aesthetically pleasing crosshatch barrier along all of the beach front area.

 

[Disney for Life]

I'm horribly saddened by this news story. My thoughts and prayers are with the family.

This will long be debated on who's responsibility it was and was it preventable. In my opinion, I think both the parents and Disney is equally responsible and are somewhat at fault. First the parents for not following the "no swimming" signs. Yes I know that "no swimming" has different meaning to different people, but could they have asked a CM why these signs were there and if ok to have the little one in the water (not swimming). Maybe they did ask and maybe not, I was not there so no way for me to tell. On the second hand, I think Disney is equally responsible because they created an oasis (man-made beach), placed hammocks and loungers on these beaches for guests to use knowing fully of the dangers lurking close by thus creating a false sense of safety.

In the end, I agree that better signage could be placed alongside the water, but do you expect to see a signage along bushes at the resorts to warn of possible snakes, spiders and other wildlife? Is it truly Disney's responsibility to warn guests of the wildlife? If you drive on a road (non-Disney property) and a deer jumps out and you hit it with you car, is that land owner responsible because he did not have a sign to say "careful of crossing deer"? Can you imagine all the signs there would be alongside the roads?

Another factor to add to the equation is that millions upon millions of guests, CM's and ground keepers have been on Disney property and around the water with minimal incidents (once in the 80's and now this tragedy) so it's easy for every guest and Disney to forget the dangers of wildlife and again creating a false sense of security.

Another scenario that is just waiting to happen is: Disney does a great job on shutting down outdoor rides and water parks during thunderstorms, but people still walk about in the theme parks. I'm surprised that no one ever got struck by lightning (I think it never happened, but I could be wrong). When this happens, will people blame Disney for not shutting down the parks or forcing everyone to seek indoor shelter?

 

[PantherPete]

No Swimming does not mean No Wading. If they don't want you wading, the sign should say No Wading. Visitors are from all over, and according to these threads, many don't realize there are gators in the water! This isn't some local playground, where everyone is familiar with the dangers.

If you saw a sign on a nice lawn that said "No Walking on the Grass" would you believe that it was ok to run, skip or hop on the grass?

 

[TeamSy]

There's also a sign that says no guest entry at the Grand Floridian near the water. So between that sign and the no swimming sign, it's pretty clear NOT to go in the water. Wading, swimming, same thing. A two year old in a foot of water is IN the water. That's high for a kid that young, at night, in a place that says NO SWIMMING. A sign of WHY not to go in the water would be a mile long and unnecessary.... wildlife (do we have to name everything?), bacteria, boats... No Swimming means no swimming, stay out of the damn water! So sad, but also very preventable. Disney will probably be sued, and who knows how it will rule, but I think Disney's signs were justifiable. Every time I was there it was BLATANTLY clear not to go near the water. Sit on the beach - no problem - just stay out of the water! Obvious!

 

[yaya74]

Exactly. Disney has no desire to fight this and they know their standing is shaky. This will never see a courtroom and Disney is going to give the family a boatload of money although it won't help that family bring their son back.

Settle the case with money, just money??? Money only helps the lawyers, not the parents nor the family. 't I were the parent, Disney has to do more than just give me money to settle it. Disney needs to do something very good to the human kinds and stop being a money-grabber in order to compensate for the loss of my child.

 

[jknc]

There is NO question that Disney will be on the hook for negligence for the reasons you described. They know it (at least their lawyers do) and they do not want the publicity of litigating against this family. Therefore, not that it is ANY consolation, but Disney will be settling this with a relatively enormous sum of money.

Would Disney be on the hook if someone was killed by a lightning strike on their property?

 

[BigAlsGal]

I HATE how life turns on a dime! Frickin hate it!

 

[Huff]

Really?? Well put me in the bad parent camp. We belong to a private beach club and as soon as my littles ones could walk they were wading in foot deep water. Didn't know that was a no, no for parents. Can I ask why that is such a horrible thing for a child to do...because it seems like this is your view in general for any water not just this specific lagoon.

I would not take my child near water unless I was teaching them how to swim or drown proofing. Such teaching is essential at an early age if kids are to be around water. Perhaps where you live you do not see the number of drownings that occur each year as I do in my state. Often these occur in less than a foot of water with adults all around. Parents never think it could happen to their child until it does. Takes just a blink of an eye.

 

[dnkmmw]

It's possible for the sign to indicate a possible DANGER. That is possible. And practically costless for Disney to do.

See for me, it doesn't matter. Regardless of whether it's a rule or a danger, I don't do it. Maybe changing the "please" to "danger" will have an impact, but I guess I don't see it really changing the outcome. Any body of water has a degree of danger, especially at night. People willing to go into the water at night are weighing that danger and make a decision if they want to go in or not.

Edited to remove double quote.
Dawn

 

[Jake&IzzyLand]

If you saw a sign on a nice lawn that said "No Walking on the Grass" would you believe that it was ok to run, skip or hop on the grass?

I think a sign that says, Stay off Grass would be more effective. That's what some are arguing, the sign was not effective as stated.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that most American Alligators are not man eaters and do not attack humans out of the water. Almost all accounts of attacks by American alligators are done while the people were actually in the water. WDW has been open for 45 years and to my knowledge this is the first incident of this nature to happen on property. For all of the millions of people who have been to WDW in 45 years to have never had an attack there was no reason for Disney to think such a tragedy would happen.
With that said there was a recent report of a species of Nile Crocodiles being reported in Florida which are man eaters and will come out of the water to grab "prey". My question, is it possible one of these Nile Crocodiles has made it onto property and that is what they are dealing with here? People get these exotic animals from other parts of the world and can no longer care for them and release them into the wild. This is a growing problem in Florida such as the population growth of the Burmese Python in the wild in Florida and other species not native to USA.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-eating-nile-crocodiles-found-florida/story?id=39253783

Highly unlikely, more like the gator has been fed and coming around for food. Once fed by humans, they loose their fear of us and begin to associate us with food. We become basically food to them

 

[Hank Scorpio]

It is more likely that Disney's insurance company will give the family a boatload of money. Then Disney will be forced to either close the beaches or put up signs with the verbiage that the insurance company wants.

Disney is likely self insured so the money will be coming from Disney.

Would Disney be on the hook if someone was killed by a lightning strike on their property?

Legally it depends if they failed to provide adequate warning and/or shelter.

 

[Duckiedee]

My heart is just broken for this family. How horrific. That poor baby.

No judgments for the family or Disney, but I just want to address some thoughts that have been shared in this thread. Like many other have said, it boggles my mind that people ( at least all US Citizens) would not think there are alligators in the water at Disney. I have never been to Alaska, but I know bears and moose are dangerous and can come right up onto your porch. Alligators are associated with Florida in popular culture. I have seen at least one on every trip to Disney.

We live on a military base outside of New Orleans and gators are often found in our large drainage ditches. Our signs only state DO NOT GO IN CANAL BY ORDER OF COMMANDING OFFICER. Just like the No Swimming sign, you do not go in. Period. At least you should not. We have plenty of kids that do even though there are gators.

This is beyond tragic, but it really is a freak accident. Look how many millions have been safe near Disney waters all these years. However, there can be no harm in Disney posting more obvious signs. Hopefully they will.

As a Canadian, I knew there were alligators in Florida - but I thought they stayed in Bayou-type settings... everything on TV pretty much depicts that. I had no clue they pretty much love all water - including swimming pools!!!!

We visited a family member, in Jacksonville the year before our first Disney trip - and it was then we found out literally any pool, stream, or pond could have an alligator. And if you have a pool, it's even a good idea to have a locking screen door - because they can also end up in your kitchen.

If a trip to Florida was to Disney first - I never, in a second, would assume there would be alligators on Disney property. And a no-swimming sign would not signify that to me. I might think: Maybe they are worried about the Ph balance of a man-made lake, maybe it is a question of insurance, maybe they are worried about pollution, maybe there are sharp rocks... Now if the sign said: BEWARE - no swimming. Alligators! I'm pretty sure I would stay far from the water.

But when you think of all the events, hammocks at the edge of the water, chairs and fireworks viewing at the water's edge of the resorts... Nope, I would not think - watch out for alligators! Not in a million years!

In fact, when we did visit, after having been schooled, I did think about alligators, but with the hammocks drifting peacefully at the water's edge at CSR - I thought - hmm, they OBVIOUSLY have measures in place for Alligator control... kind of like mosquito-control.

I feel like the choice of "No swimming" only was there to amplify the feeling of everything is magical and safe here at Disney... Sadly - that is not true.

I do agree though, this is a freak accident. Alligators are not crocs and there are far more human deaths by dogs than alligators.

 

[Huff]

What?! How about pools? Have you ever been to the beach? There are tons of toddlers playing at the shoreline. All of my kids have splashed around natural bodies of water as toddlers.

If they are taught how to swim or drown proofed then great! Otherwise no. As I've said to others you must not see the vast number of toddler drownings in your area as I do and why they occur.

 

[AshleeH]

People do not read signs. I'm not being flip when I say this - we have signs up at our business that states our hours in bold, clearly at the person's eye-line when they reach the door. It never fails, 20 people a day will pull on the lobby door, not bother to read the sign, walk to the other side of the building to the other main entrance, pull on that door, ignore that sign, and walk away muttering to themselves about the fact that we are not open. Our business has been open for 50 years, the hours don't change and we live in a town of 15,000 people - by the numbers, every single person MUST have pulled on that doors at least once, yet it still happens every single day. Because the signs - even clearly visible - do not register because they want something and they want it on their timetable.

This is a tragedy, but let's not think a sign would make a difference to the outcome. I am very much landlocked but I know to be on the lookout for snakes and alligators when we vacation in Florida, just as I knew to be on the lookout for bears when we were in Alaska. A sign stating the obvious would not deter anyone because it would just be background noise that the average vacationer would not pay attention to.

How many of us have stood and read all of Disney's rules and warnings at every posted location? Anyone? Anyone?

We cannot build a bubble around every dangerous thing in this world - warning labels and signs are strictly there to keep lawsuits to a minimum. Common sense has to come into play the vast majority of the time and when it doesn't, these tragic accidents are blown up all over the place. I am heartbroken for this family - they are experiencing something that no family should ever have to go through and it will haunt them for the rest of their lives, but I also don't think Disney was negligent. I am sure that no sign would have changed this horrific outcome.

 

[Huff]

I thought the same as you, but I just read an article of a 1986 attack of a boy at ft. wilderness. His sister and someone else in the family were able to pry him away and the boy lived. Still a good track record, but it appears it happened in 1986.

Thanks, was not aware of that incident. There have been quite a few alligator sightings over the years. Disney routinely removes them from its areas but impossible to find them all.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I know they have captured and removed 4 gators already but have found no trace of the baby. Not sure how much you know about them & really don't want to go in detail, it's sickening to post, but if they don't find any other gators, it's possible that one of those is the gator. I just keep praying for that family, it's horrific