Parents, Please Control your Children

[aaarcher86]

It always amuses me when people take up for kids acting like buttholes. And as the parent of a special needs kid, it's almost getting offensive that it's always offered up as a suggestion for bad behavior (no matter how well meaning they might be).

But really, if you're not going to parent your own kid there's going to be someone else that will. I have no problem telling someone's kid to stop doing something if it's gone on for awhile or saying something to the parent. I won't even tell the story about the kid attempting to take french fries off my plate again - but that kid got a firm 'No. Go sit down with your parents' from me.

 

[starjazz]

It always amuses me when people take up for kids acting like buttholes. And as the parent of a special needs kid, it's almost getting offensive that it's always offered up as a suggestion for bad behavior (no matter how well meaning they might be).

But really, if you're not going to parent your own kid there's going to be someone else that will. I have no problem telling someone's kid to stop doing something if it's gone on for awhile or saying something to the parent. I won't even tell the story about the kid attempting to take french fries off my plate again - but that kid got a firm 'No. Go sit down with your parents' from me.

To be honest, I'm totally with you. I basically hate kids if we're being frank. (okay, not really, lol) I was merely responding to the OP and that specific situation. I think there needs to be a bit of leniency when at a place like WDW. I allow mine to be a little more silly, a little more rambunctious, a little louder, etc., than I normally would, cuz its Disney - its for them. So, my whole thing involves setting your expectations. At Disney, if a kid is climbing around in a restaurant, I'm gonna let it pass. If I'm at a quiet pool at a resort in Mexico, and kids are being loud, I'm likely to be far less tolerant of it.

 

[Ursula's Apprentice]

It always amuses me when people take up for kids acting like buttholes. And as the parent of a special needs kid, it's almost getting offensive that it's always offered up as a suggestion for bad behavior (no matter how well meaning they might be).

But really, if you're not going to parent your own kid there's going to be someone else that will. I have no problem telling someone's kid to stop doing something if it's gone on for awhile or saying something to the parent. I won't even tell the story about the kid attempting to take french fries off my plate again - but that kid got a firm 'No. Go sit down with your parents' from me.

Can you link to this story, because I'd love to read it...without you having to repeat it of course.

I was eating at Tortuga once and a child from the next table came over and just STARED at me and my husband. I laughed it off, and she was eventually pulled back to her table, but it creeped me out big time. Kids are weird...

 

[Magpie]

Wait.....................................................................your kids are 20 years apart?

That's not so difficult. If a woman has her first at 20, she's only 40 when she has her last. And if she's younger than 20 when she has her first, it's even easier to have two with 20 years between them. Or more, if the one she had at 40 wasn't actually her last.

 

[mshanson3121]

An amazing thread. We have people judging the parents, people judging the children, people calling children names, a debate about spanking, a discussion on proper restaurant etiquette, we have managed to drag the whole JTA Darth Vader attack back up again, and now a conversation starting on how far apart a woman's children are spaced out... What the heck is next?

 

[aaarcher86]

To be honest, I'm totally with you. I basically hate kids if we're being frank. (okay, not really, lol) I was merely responding to the OP and that specific situation. I think there needs to be a bit of leniency when at a place like WDW. I allow mine to be a little more silly, a little more rambunctious, a little louder, etc., than I normally would, cuz its Disney - its for them. So, my whole thing involves setting your expectations. At Disney, if a kid is climbing around in a restaurant, I'm gonna let it pass. If I'm at a quiet pool at a resort in Mexico, and kids are being loud, I'm likely to be far less tolerant of it.

I'm probably the opposite then. I fully expect my kids to behave appropriately in a restaurant or in public, while still being able to have fun and be a little more silly than usual. At the pool, I'd be even more lenient BUT I still expect them to behave. I think there's just a difference between having fun and being a nightmare. Running around people's tables and climbing on things isn't okay in my book. Any time my kids are disrupting other people (within reason. There's some scrooges out there) I'm not happy about it. In all honesty, I dislike most children... probably because they're so frequently acting buttheads. I think that's what makes me so strict with mine - I just can't have them acting that way.

Fun = my kid doing the "Just Dance" dance to the Jack Skellington song in the roped off area while waiting for the parade. No one was around. There was plenty of room. She's not in anyone's way or invading anyone's space. Cool.

Obnoxious = running around a restaurant like it's a park jungle gym.

Can you link to this story, because I'd love to read it...without you having to repeat it of course.

I was eating at Tortuga once and a child from the next table came over and just STARED at me and my husband. I laughed it off, and she was eventually pulled back to her table, but it creeped me out big time. Kids are weird...

Ha. It's not a long story and I've just mentioned it on threads like this before, so not sure where to even link!

In a nutshell, there were two younger boys (roughly 4 and 6 or so) running around Cape May during dinner like tiny little nightmares. Their parents were sitting at the table next to us, drinking wine and just having a merry old time while these tyrants ran up and down the isle screaming, getting in the way of waiters, and going up to people's tables. One of them kept stopping and looking at my kid's lightup Tink on her cup, and I'm not joking, I was waiting for him to try and grab it and I was ready to swat his hand! There was no amount of evil glaring that could get these parents to care one lick about these kids and the people they were disturbing. At one point, one of the kids stopped at my table again and grabbed a fistful of french fries off my plate... just full handed my food which is a huge NO for anyone in my family, let alone strange, dirty kids.

So that's when I told him to go sit with his parents, and he looked beyond shell shocked. He dropped the fries and moved on... he didn't listen, but he didn't come near me again so I was happy. Then his parents get up to leave and his dad looks at me and says in his British accent, "it's like they've got never ending little batteries."

 

[piccolopat]

You're correct - I wouldn't want my kid to make anyone's vacation awkward, and I'd do my best to avoid it. Stealing from a fountain, I might not catch at first. If I saw it, I'd make them put the change back. And I'd probably ask them to add some of their own change as a consequence.

As far as the piano, if the performer didn't have an issue, I might allow them to enjoy the duet for a bit. My kids are often at my sister's house, where she performs on her piano for them quite often. She frequently asks them to join her. Its not music to my ears, but its fun for my sister and my kids, and they're getting interested in music and instruments. So my kids might think it was totally acceptable to "perform" with the guy at Coke Corner.

If those things make me a bad parent, so be it.

The piano player is not likely to stop in the middle of his performance to tell your kids to back off and keep their hands off the piano. As a musician, unless I invited kids up to join in I would certainly have an issue with it even if I couldn't or didn't say something. Parents should keep their kids back with the rest of the audience unless they are called up to participate. These kids made the performance much less enjoyable for the others and likely frustrated the performer as well. What you allow your children to do in your own home (or your sister's home in your case) is very different than what they should do when there is a public performance.

 

[wdw4rfam]

That's not so difficult. If a woman has her first at 20, she's only 40 when she has her last. And if she's younger than 20 when she has her first, it's even easier to have two with 20 years between them. Or more, if the one she had at 40 wasn't actually her last.

Exactly, there's 15 years between my oldest and youngest and I was thinking the same. I was 21 with oldest and almost 37 with last.

 

[Magpie]

An amazing thread. We have people judging the parents, people judging the children, people calling children names, a debate about spanking, a discussion on proper restaurant etiquette, we have managed to drag the whole JTA Darth Vader attack back up again, and now a conversation starting on how far apart a woman's children are spaced out... What the heck is next?

I'd say it's an awesome thread. I love debating spanking (especially since everyone's being very civil, as far as I can tell). Proper restaurant etiquette is always interesting, especially hearing the views from people who were or are servers. The JTA Darth Vader documentary quips were hilarious. And as for the child spacing - all I did was mention that it's certainly not odd to have 20 years between 2 of your kids (however many kids you might happen to have).

A moment ago I was actually noting the age of that poster (I was checking her profile to make sure she wasn't actually a dad, because I try not to mischaracterize people) and thinking, "Wow, she's just a couple years younger than my mom, and she's got a son my age and a daughter who is only two years older than mine! That's REALLY got to give you an interesting perspective on parenting, the generations, and society as a whole. I wish I could have her over for tea and a chat."

 

[mshanson3121]

I'd say it's an awesome thread. I love debating spanking (especially since everyone's being very civil, as far as I can tell). Proper restaurant etiquette is always interesting, especially hearing the views from people who were or are servers. The JTA Darth Vader documentary quips were hilarious. And as for the child spacing - all I did was mention that it's certainly not odd to have 20 years between 2 of your kids (however many kids you might happen to have).

A moment ago I was actually noting the age of that poster (I was checking her profile to make sure she wasn't actually a dad) and thinking, "Wow, she's just a couple years younger than my mom, and she's got a son my age and a daughter who is only two years older than mine! That's REALLY got to give you an interesting perspective on parenting, the generations, and society as a whole. I wish I could have her over for tea and a chat."

I could care less about the spacing comments. I was just more amazed at the amount of different turns this thread has taken, and also amazed admins have not shut it down, since they typically shut down parenting debates - which this has clearly involved.

 

[Magpie]

I could care less about the spacing comments. I was just more amazed at the amount of different turns this thread has taken, and also amazed admins have not shut it down, since they typically shut down parenting debates - which this has clearly involved.

Oh, I expect they will eventually. Or they'll move it to another board where it will die from neglect. But, fortunately, I don't think I see anything here that's likely to get any of us points. So I'm enjoying it while it lasts! (I actually thought I was on the community board, when I first clicked on this.)

 

[mshanson3121]

Oh, I expect they will eventually. Or they'll move it to another board where it will die from neglect. But, fortunately, I don't think I see anything here that's likely to get any of us points. So I'm enjoying it while it lasts! (I actually thought I was on the community board, when I first clicked on this.)

And on the topic of spacing, my brother is 18 years younger than me Oh, and come to think of it, on the topic of judging... he was born just a month shy of my high school graduation, so on prom night, I was holding my little baby brother. You should have seen the amount of dirty looks I got...

 

[JimmyV]

While I can certainly appreciate the gray areas in parenting, and how one style of discipline may not mesh with another, and how one person's view of acceptable childhood behavior is inconsistent with another person's. I get all that. But what amazes me is that in one day, this thread has blossomed to 10 pages when the conduct in question (banging on piano keys during a public performance) shouldn't even come close to anyone's line of acceptable behavior. This isn't a kid doing a cannonball in a hotel pool. This is way beyond that. And the parents' reaction and choice of "discipline" was to say nothing and instead walk away silently, hoping that the kids would follow. I don't know which is more mind boggling: That a parent would select that method of discipline, or that there are people here who find that to be within the range of acceptable choices. At best, this was an opportunity for a "teachable moment". But what could the kids have possibly learned from the parents walking away? In no way does that send a message to the kids that their behavior was wrong. Instead it sends the message that the behavior was acceptable, but that it had come to an end and it was now time to try something else.

 

[HopperFan]

A smart parent knows their child. My ds, now 42, could have been beaten to within an inch of his life. That didn't serve as a good punishment. But, if I looked at him with tears in my eyes, from disappointment? Oh man...he bent over backwards to make it right!!!
However, my now 22 y/o, was fond of disregarding my rules as a child. When she was about 2, we were at a cookout at church. The church is on a short road, that is basically traveled by those going to the church, or to one of the 5 houses on that street..so not a busy road. The other youngsters were being allowed to play in the road. Ages ran between 18 months and 8 yrs. My dd ran after them. I went to get her, telling her that she was not allowed to play in the road...it's still a road, and at her age, she wasn't able to distinguish between what roads were safe to play on. Ok..she crept back out onto the road a second time. I went and brought her back to the grassy area. Yes, I knew it was hard for her to understand why the other kids could do it but she couldn't. Told her that if she did it again, her behind was going to get swatted!!! Ok....she looked at me sideways and stopped. But as soon as my back was turned (or so she thought!!) off she went again. I calmly walked out, picked her up, swatter her diapered behind. Well, you could have heard a pin drop. Finally everyone went back to what they were doing. The next day, at church, a man took me aside to tell me that if he had been there, while I abused my child, he would have had to take me aside and explain why I was so wrong and then give me the name of a counselor. Of course, as the years went on, the other kids in church wouldn't play with my dd. Why? They knew that she wasn't allowed to do sommersaults over the altar railing or run around in the parish hall while adults tried to enjoy coffee, or climb the supposedly off limits trees out front! Yep, I was the mean mother. But, dd has grown into a respectful young woman, who is able to make good choices. And for the record? I never had to lay a hand on her again. She knew that if I said to stop, or there would be consequences, there would be consequences! I never made idle threats!

I don't expect children to always behave...they're kids. It's in their rule book to try and get away with crap. But it is my job, as their parent, to catch them and stop that behaviour. No, my kids wouldn't have been allowed to go up to a performer and start banging on the piano. Then again, I'm lucky. My dd fully realizes that a piano needs tuning after that kind of treatment!! We're always tuning our piano's at church because parents think their kids are the next Liberace!!!
Children are the way they are (for the most part) because of the way they were brought up. If you allow a child to behave as if there are no consequences, well.....they're going to push the limits, and it is going to really annoy others when it happens in a crowded theme park. It is not my job to be my child's friend. It is my job to be their parent, one who sets limits. One who has expectations. It is also not my job to monitor what other people's kids are doing. Well, not unless it impacts me. And I have to say that standing in the Great Movie Ride line, being constantly hit on the back by the swinging rope, made me somewhat nudgy. That child, who was about 6, was never told to stop swinging the rope, at least not until she tried to sit on it and it completely pulled off both poles....the kid went flat on her behind. Her parents? Dad turned to Mom and said, and I quote, 'Disney should make these things more substantial. Someone could get hurt!' Seriously???

I think you make the perfect point. We all parent differently. We even parent each child differently. Even though raised in the same well adjusted home - my sister, brother and I all parent very differently and we nurture different qualities in our children. Does it make any of us wrong? No .... because we are all also parenting our children with expectations they will be respectful of others, use appropriate behavior where ever they are, do no physical harm, help those in need, follow rules, do not interrupt or be disruptive ..... etc.

Parenting is teaching, guiding, nurturing, discipline, consistency, expectations ..... not letting them raise themselves. I don't care how someone parents their child ..... if the end result is a respectful, well behaved child that understands boundaries and consequences.

Sadly Disney provides more than enough opportunity to see how children have learned to utilize their "skills". Sadly as much as it disrupts the other guests vacations it is the poor CMs who take the brunt of it, day after day.

 

[Magpie]

And on the topic of spacing, my brother is 18 years younger than me Oh, and come to think of it, on the topic of judging... he was born just a month shy of my high school graduation, so on prom night, I was holding my little baby brother. You should have seen the amount of dirty looks I got...

That's hilarious! Reminds me of the summer I stayed with my cousin in Tennessee to help her with her babies (I'm Canadian). She had a six year old and a two year old. I was fifteen. One day, we were at the park and these very nice black ladies were chattering away at me. They were friendly, but I couldn't understand their accents for the life of me. So as not be rude, I just kept smiling and nodding and agreeing with everything they said. Until I noticed my cousin was cracking up.

When they finally left, I asked her what was so funny. Turns out that I'd just politely agreed that we were sisters. And that the baby was mine. Which I evidently must have had at the ripe old age of thirteen. No wonder she was laughing at me!

 

[DisDadDVC]

I could care less about the spacing comments. I was just more amazed at the amount of different turns this thread has taken, and also amazed admins have not shut it down, since they typically shut down parenting debates - which this has clearly involved.

You could care less? (See, now it has turned into a grammar thread too!)

 

[mshanson3121]

While I can certainly appreciate the gray areas in parenting, and how one style of discipline may not mesh with another, and how one person's view of acceptable childhood behavior is inconsistent with another person's. I get all that. But what amazes me is that in one day, this thread has blossomed to 10 pages when the conduct in question (banging on piano keys during a public performance) shouldn't even come close to anyone's line of acceptable behavior. This isn't a kid doing a cannonball in a hotel pool. This is way beyond that. And the parents' reaction and choice of "discipline" was to say nothing and instead walk away silently, hoping that the kids would follow. I don't know which is more mind boggling: That a parent would select that method of discipline, or that there are people here who find that to be within the range of acceptable choices. At best, this was an opportunity for a "teachable moment". But what could the kids have possibly learned from the parents walking away? In no way does that send a message to the kids that their behavior was wrong. Instead it sends the message that the behavior was acceptable, but that it had come to an end and it was now time to try something else.

No one is saying that is their discipline. It was how they chose to remove their children from the situation, which was effective and did not disturb the other people. What would you prefer, they haul off and spank the kid, or stick them in a time out right there? Pick them up and carry them off, potentially sparking a meltdown which would be FAR more disruptive? Also, discipline, typically is something that happens AFTER a child has been removed from a situation, not while they're right in the middle of it. So, everyone is just ASSUMING there was no discipline, because they didn't haul off and rant and rave at them in the middle of the situation. THAT is what is mind boggling to me - how many people think that causing a public scene would be called better parenting. And how many people love to judge others, based on assumptions.

 

[mckennarose]

Ahh, more judging.

Honestly, a 3 year old child crawling or climbing on a partition behind me would not disrupt my meal at a quick service location at the Magic Kingdom. Cosmic Ray's isn't the Ritz Carlton. It's a chaotic counter service cafeteria with an alien lounge singer.

I understand being concerned about another person's child doing something dangerous. But that's on the parents and it is not your place to determine what is or is not acceptable for another person's child. I trust they have it covered. No one wants to see their kid hurt.

What if the child was screaming at the table next to you instead of playing (a thing all almost three year olds might do, regardless of their upbringing or temperament). Would you have been okay with that? If it's not one thing people are complaining about, it's something else.

I'm not talking about a kid having a meltdown and it bothering people around them. My kids all have had their fair share of meltdowns over the 26+ years I've been a parent. (can you say teenager?! Yikes! Been there, got the medal, lol!)

I'm also not talking about a kid running in a restaurant on the floor. (or parading in an organized event) I'm talking about an unsupervised toddler walking/running/scooting along a 6+(?) inch wide partition that is 3 feet (?) off the floor, with no rails, literally in other patrons' space, physically touching the backs of their heads, backs or whatever happened to be up against the partition. It would certainly bother most people. And it not only went addressed by the parents, but was encouraged.

 

[JimmyV]

No one is saying that is their discipline. It was how they chose to remove their children from the situation,...

How one removes one's children from a situation in which they are misbehaving is a form of discipline. Or better stated, non-discipline. It is always great when one can quote a lyric from Rush, so here goes..."If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

What would you prefer, they haul off and spank the kid, or stick them in a time out right there? Pick them up and carry them off, potentially sparking a meltdown which would be FAR more disruptive?

The bolded. There is no way that a firm "no" coupled with leading them away from the piano would have been more disruptive. Could it have caused a meltdown? Perhaps. But avoiding a meltdown while allowing the disruption to continue is a selfish act. "I don't want my buttercup to get upset even if he is bothering others" is the height of selfishness. It is always great when one can quote Mr. Spock, so here goes..."The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Also, discipline, typically is something that happens AFTER a child has been removed from a situation, not while they're right in the middle of it.

Even a dog trainer knows that discipline is most effective immediately upon the happening of the bad behavior and not afterward.

So, everyone is just ASSUMING there was no discipline, because they didn't haul off and rant and rave at them in the middle of the situation. THAT is what is mind boggling to me - how many people think that causing a public scene would be called better parenting. And how many people love to judge others, based on assumptions.

So you honestly believe that after the fact, mom and dad sat the little ones down for a meaningful heart-to-heart chat? Seriously?

 

[HopperFan]

How one removes one's children from a situation in which they are misbehaving is a form of discipline. Or better stated, non-discipline. It is always great when one can quote a lyric from Rush, so here goes..."If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

The bolded. There is no way that a firm "no" coupled with leading them away from the piano would have been more disruptive. Could it have caused a meltdown? Perhaps. But avoiding a meltdown while allowing the disruption to continue is a selfish act. "I don't want my buttercup to get upset even if he is bothering others" is the height of selfishness. It is always great when one can quote Mr. Spock, so here goes..."The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Even a dog trainer knows that discipline is most effective immediately upon the happening of the bad behavior and not afterward.

So you honestly believe that after the fact, mom and dad sat the little ones down for a meaningful heart-to-heart chat? Seriously?

On point.

The key is ... had the parents been "parenting" since day one with expectations of appropriate behavior this entire incident probably would have never happened at all. And if it was some crazy, the planets are out of alignment, the devil made me do it moment ...... if the parents had been "parenting" it probably would have only taken a look or a tug of the arm to remove them from the situation and getting back on track.

I'm not sure why the prospect of a meltdown (hence impacting the parents day) was more important than the disruption (hence impacting the entertainer and all the other guests day).