Report of Oregon college shooting...

[CPanther95]

Thank you for answering. I do understand that each type of gun has a purpose but that still doesn't change the fact that you only need one gun for personal protection.

You've been given lists of the different types of guns used 'for personal protection' depending on where you are, what you are wearing, whether you are in the car or in the house, etc. yet you still don't understand?

Either you are asking the same question over and over again and ignoring all the answers because you are afraid to acknowledge the answers - or you just aren't ever going to get it.

 

[asta]

I agree. It has become impossible to even have a reasoned public discourse and it is largely due to the outsized influence of a relatively small number of extremists and of the industry itself. But that's what sets the U.S. apart on many issues, from healthcare to climate to guns - we have a system of immensely powerful lobbying interests that exist solely to manipulate policy and public opinion to their best advantage. It is very hard for the voice of the people to outweigh the voice of the NRA, which gives 1.5-2m to candidates every election year, much less that of the oil & gas industry, which donates around 170m per election cycle. Money has corrupted our democracy almost to the point that the label "democracy" is a poor fit, and that's not a partisan problem - it is true across the board, with some of the same powerful lobbies donating to both sides to ensure they've got influence with the winner.

Amen! When are we the voters going to do something about this. We have the power in our hands to stop this but blindly go along election after election. This is a non-partisan problem and it is our fault if we don't do something about it.​

 

[TLSnell1981]

Seventeen pages dedicated to gun control. What about the victims? They were murdered for their beliefs. I think, they deserve to be acknowledged.

"A shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon left nine people dead on October 1, 2015."

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/10/us/oregon-college-shooting-victims/

Lucero Alcaraz, 19
Lucero Alcaraz was from Roseburg and graduated from Roseburg High School this year.

Treven Taylor Anspach, 20
Treven Anspach was from Sutherlin, just north of Roseburg.

Rebecka Ann Carnes, 18
Rebecka Carnes was from Myrtle Creek, just south of Roseburg.

Quinn Glen Cooper, 18
Quinn Cooper was from Roseburg, the sheriff's office said. His family said he graduated in June from Roseburg High School. Thursday was his fourth day of college.

Kim Saltmarsh Dietz, 59
Kim Dietz was from Roseburg, the sheriff's office said.

Lucas Eibel, 18
Lucas Eibel was a quadruplet with two brothers and a sister.

Jason Dale Johnson, 34
Jason Johnson was from Winston, just south of Roseburg

Lawrence Levine, 67
Lawrence Levine, from Glide, about 16 miles northeast of Roseburg, was the teacher in the classroom that was attacked

Sarena Dawn Moore, 44
Sarena Moore was from Myrtle Creek

 

[declansdad]

You've been given lists of the different types of guns used 'for personal protection' depending on where you are, what you are wearing, whether you are in the car or in the house, etc. yet you still don't understand?

Either you are asking the same question over and over again and ignoring all the answers because you are afraid to acknowledge the answers - or you just aren't ever going to get it.

I did acknowledge the poster that answered the question I posed to you, which you kept avoiding. The point is you really only need one gun for protection not 2, 3 or 13.

And I have managed to participate in the discussion without insulting anyone.

 

[CPanther95]

I did acknowledge the poster that answered the question I posed to you, which you kept avoiding. The point is you really only need one gun for protection not 2, 3 or 13.

And I have managed to participate in the discussion without insulting anyone.

Playing dumb is insulting.

Claiming you never got an answer in a post where you actually quoted the answer in your own post is insulting.

Ignoring the answer to your faux-question because you want to stick with your own predetermined conclusion is insulting.

 

[declansdad]

Playing dumb is insulting.

Claiming you never got an answer in a post where you actually quoted the answer in your own post is insulting.

Ignoring the answer to your faux-question because you want to stick with your own predetermined conclusion is insulting.

It's been nice talking to you.

 

[CPanther95]

It's been nice talking to you.

It's been nice hearing you talking to me. Just a shame we couldn't figure out how to get you to listen to anyone else. Then we could have at least intelligently debated or discussed the issue.

It's a lot like trying to have a discussion with someone that doesn't take their finger off the transmit button of the radio when they are waiting for a response.

 

[JoeA]

The point is you really only need one gun for protection not 2, 3 or 13. .

I have two small firearms for conceal carry (each different caliber and frame and type), a full frame .45 that is with me when we're in the travel trailer, and a shotgun for home protection. And others used for hunting and target shooting.

As a PP stated - different "tools" for the circumstances and situations. Having multiple weapons doesn't make me a paranoid lunutic ready to shoot up a campus. No - it just means I'm prepared to protect my family should it be required (and I honestly doubt if they'll ever be fired except on the range but like insurance - glad to have it and hope you never use it!)

And having multiple weapons isn't why people play "shoot 'em up". They watch too much TV and it "looks cool". Personally, I'd rather carry one .45 and 20 mags if I were going to do that. As I said before, it's very easy and quick to "dump and load".

So having "one for protection" isn't a solution.

 

[LisaR]

Do you know the reason why it never crosses your mind that your child is going to stab someone with a kitchen knife? Because you (hopefully) took the time to educate your child about knives and how deadly they could be - and how to use and handle them safely. My kids were handling a .22LR well before I would let them handle my 10" Chef's knife.

That really is hysterical! How many cases have you heard about where two six y/o were playing and one grabbed a kitchen knife and brutally attacked the other six y/o stabbing him until he was dead? Now how many times have you heard about two kids playing who find dad's gun, mess around with it, and accidentally kill someone? My children certainly had more lessons in gun safety than they had in knife safety. I don't recall ever telling my kids, "This is a knife. It can be dangerous. When little Johnny comes over to play, you most definitely should not pull out the knife and stab him." Their "safety" instructions with a knife were, "Be careful. It's sharp. You might hurt yourself." It didn't take much more than that, but my kids are gifted Dis kids so maybe that's why! Your repeated knife claims are seriously misguided. I'm sorry you are so fearful of the dreaded knife. Most aren't.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Amen! When are we the voters going to do something about this. We have the power in our hands to stop this but blindly go along election after election. This is a non-partisan problem and it is our fault if we don't do something about it.​

I think what a lot of people fail to grasp is the voting clout the NRA packs. 5 million members and they all vote. Their spouses vote. Non-members who agree with their stance vote. 80% of gun owners are okay with expanded background checks. Ask those same folks if they support the bill that came through Congress a couple years ago, and the answer will be a resounding "no". Yes, money clouds politics, but at the end of the day, the voters still wield the power to remove anyone from office.


And from the other side, they get greedy & play politics. Instead of a simple & workable expansion of background checks, they try to package it with registration, bans of cosmetic features, waiting periods, etc. They may be able to get polled Americans behind such a bill by only discussing the one good idea in it, but the impassioned VOTER doesn't buy it.

It's like offering a free tank of gas if you let the attendant smack every panel of your car with a hammer. Then, when the proposal fails, stepping up in public and saying you don't understand why anyone would turn down a free tank of gas.

 

[CPanther95]

I don't recall ever telling my kids, "This is a knife. It can be dangerous. "

Well hopefully they learned it from their friends or their friend's parents.

I guess sometimes it really does take a village.

 

[LisaR]

Well hopefully they learned it from their friends or their friend's parents.

I guess sometimes it really does take a village.

That's so cool how you only picked out part of my quote to try and make a funny. I believe it was you who adamantly declared READ, REREAD, and then REPLY. Guess that's kind of hard for you, eh?

 

[declansdad]

This thread is a perfect example of why a true discussion on this issue will never happen in the USA. It's really too bad that people on both ends of the spectrum end up dominating the discussion and nothing truly gets done when it comes to guns. After all, how many planes have been taken out by a show bomb? It didn't take long to change the rules to deal with that problem because of one failed attempt. I guess the shoe lobby wasn't strong enough to keep that from happening.

 

[CdnCarrie]

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8283199/gun-control-comedy-jefferies

 

[JoeA]

That really is hysterical! How many cases have you heard about where two six y/o were playing and one grabbed a kitchen knife and brutally attacked the other six y/o stabbing him until he was dead? Now how many times have you heard about two kids playing who find dad's gun, mess around with it, and accidentally kill someone? My children certainly had more lessons in gun safety than they had in knife safety. I don't recall ever telling my kids, "This is a knife. It can be dangerous. When little Johnny comes over to play, you most definitely should not pull out the knife and stab him." Their "safety" instructions with a knife were, "Be careful. It's sharp. You might hurt yourself." It didn't take much more than that, but my kids are gifted Dis kids so maybe that's why! Your repeated knife claims are seriously misguided. I'm sorry you are so fearful of the dreaded knife. Most aren't.

A man was just sentenced to life here in Colorado for killing 5 people with a knife. I bet you never heard about it unless you live in the Denver market.

I don't think "knife claims" are misguided at all. Unless you think there is an acceptable amount of crime before its legitimate? Guns are too much so we need laws but I really don't hear about knives so that's not part the narrative??

 

[LisaR]

I think what a lot of people fail to grasp is the voting clout the NRA packs. 5 million members and they all vote. Their spouses vote. Non-members who agree with their stance vote. 80% of gun owners are okay with expanded background checks. Ask those same folks if they support the bill that came through Congress a couple years ago, and the answer will be a resounding "no". Yes, money clouds politics, but at the end of the day, the voters still wield the power to remove anyone from office.


And from the other side, they get greedy & play politics. Instead of a simple & workable expansion of background checks, they try to package it with registration, bans of cosmetic features, waiting periods, etc. They may be able to get polled Americans behind such a bill by only discussing the one good idea in it, but the impassioned VOTER doesn't buy it.

It's like offering a free tank of gas if you let the attendant smack every panel of your car with a hammer. Then, when the proposal fails, stepping up in public and saying you don't understand why anyone would turn down a free tank of gas.

Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever change. It is the nature of politics. Every single bill that they attempt to pass is littered with so much unrelated nonsense.

 

[LisaR]

A man was just sentenced to life here in Colorado for killing 5 people with a knife. I bet you never heard about it unless you live in the Denver market.

I don't think "knife claims" are misguided at all. Unless you think there is an acceptable amount of crime before its legitimate? Guns are too much so we need laws but I really don't hear about knives so that's not part the narrative??

I absolutely heard about it and I never denied that people can't get killed with a knife. Of course a knife is dangerous. However, when my kids were little, I had ZERO fear of them getting stabbed to death with a knife while at a friend's house. I knew their friends. If they were a little off, they wouldn't be going to their house unsupervised. Stabbing someone to death with a knife is deliberate; it is NOT an accident. Picking up a gun and playing with it, as little kids tend to do even when they have been taught gun safety, is far more of a worry for parents than a little six y/o stabbing them to death.

 

[CPanther95]

The only point about knife education is that we educate our kids as to what knives are capable of and how to use them responsibly - and some consider gun education to simply be "don't touch and call an adult". It's true, the typical child is not going to take a knife and stab a friend in the neck, but a typical child that is educated about the operation and capabilities of firearms is no more likely to point a gun at his friends and start blowing their heads off either.

But the most important thing is to not allow your children to play around with guns - especially if they are not familiar with how they operate. Don't punish the rest of us because you aren't providing adequate supervision for your children, or you don't have dangerous items out of reach of children.

 

[Dentam]

Seventeen pages dedicated to gun control. What about the victims? They were murdered for their beliefs. I think, they deserve to be acknowledged.

Absolutely the victims should be acknowledged as well as the hero who was shot seven times confronting the gunman. I wish that all of the media would agree to NOT give any attention to the gunman. Don't keep repeating his name, don't show his photo on the news, just DON'T. But they just don't get it.

I also get frustrated when people say after events like this that everyone should leave gun control and politics out of it and just focus on the victims. So we go back to the "thoughts and prayers are with them", etc which, while wonderful and supportive, does nothing to CHANGE anything.

And one of the 18 year olds is a relative of my mom's best friend from high school... so yes, it hits close to home and I'm not trying to be insensitive to those families.

Also, there are conflicting reports on whether victims were singled out for their beliefs.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I absolutely heard about it and I never denied that people can't get killed with a knife. Of course a knife is dangerous. However, when my kids were little, I had ZERO fear of them getting stabbed to death with a knife while at a friend's house. I knew their friends. If they were a little off, they wouldn't be going to their house unsupervised. Stabbing someone to death with a knife is deliberate; it is NOT an accident. Picking up a gun and playing with it, as little kids tend to do even when they have been taught gun safety, is far more of a worry for parents than a little six y/o stabbing them to death.

I do believe that knives, like guns, each have a specific purpose. Hence the reason someone would own several different types of each.

I also agree knives can be (and have been) used as horrible weapons.

But, I also am in the camp that doesn't feel a need to lecture my kids about the dangers of knives. I'm sure there have been accidental knife deaths, but they have to rank up there with meteor strikes as a cause of death.