Would a crackdown on point renting help availability?

[MountainMouse]

So in looking for a room marathon weekend and having a very limited selection it got me to wondering. Marathon weekend is very popular at Disney, but why is it so popular with DVC. The typical DVC buyer wouldn't seem to me to also be a typical marathon runner. And if you were a DVC owner why would you want to come on a busy week/weekend if you weren't a runner or supporter of one? So why are all the DVC rooms booked up? Is it owners renting points? If perhaps there were a crackdown on heavy renters could we all see availability increase on the typical busy times? I'm all for allowing rental of points to help owners avoid a potential loss, but I don't think renting points consistently or buying points solely to rent should be tolerated if it is impacting availability.

 

[Deb & Bill]

So in looking for a room marathon weekend and having a very limited selection it got me to wondering. Marathon weekend is very popular at Disney, but why is it so popular with DVC. The typical DVC buyer wouldn't seem to me to also be a typical marathon runner. And if you were a DVC owner why would you want to come on a busy week/weekend if you weren't a runner or supporter of one? So why are all the DVC rooms booked up? Is it owners renting points? If perhaps there were a crackdown on heavy renters could we all see availability increase on the typical busy times? I'm all for allowing rental of points to help owners avoid a potential loss, but I don't think renting points consistently or buying points solely to rent should be tolerated if it is impacting availability.

I think there are a lot of DVC runners. And I'd bet a lot of DVC runners bring other running friends with them for the races. You are only four months out from Disney Marathon weekend.

Marathons make up maybe three weekends at WDW now. That's less than 6% of the weekends and lots of runners want to do the special races like the Dopey, the Wine and Dine, Princess, etc. You get a lot of shorter race runners, like halves and 10Ks, too. I'd guess that at least 6% of owners might be runners or have a runner in the family.

As for availability at other times, if every owner booked DVC and didn't trade out to non-DVC stays, there wouldn't be any availability other than what was owned by DVC. There are a few owners who just let their points lapse, but most probably don't. Most members know that they need to book some times at 11 months out and others at seven to get what they want.

 

[MountainMouse]

I think there are a lot of DVC runners. And I'd bet a lot of DVC runners bring other running friends with them for the races. You are only four months out from Disney Marathon weekend.

Marathons make up maybe three weekends at WDW now. That's less than 6% of the weekends and lots of runners want to do the special races like the Dopey, the Wine and Dine, Princess, etc. You get a lot of shorter race runners, like halves and 10Ks, too. I'd guess that at least 6% of owners might be runners or have a runner in the family.

As for availability at other times, if every owner booked DVC and didn't trade out to non-DVC stays, there wouldn't be any availability other than what was owned by DVC. There are a few owners who just let their points lapse, but most probably don't. Most members know that they need to book some times at 11 months out and others at seven to get what they want.

The point really is that this is an exploitable characteristic of how DVC is currently run. It's not technically allowable, but it's overlooked. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. What I don't know is does this impact availability. How many of those marathon weekends, or thanksgiving week, or December are booked with rented points? It's not a question I think anyone will be able to answer definitively but I would be interested in the opinions.

 

[Dean Marino]

Related to this thread....

If WDW does NOT institute a crackdown or BAN on point renting? I will be surprised... and I will be convinced that WDW has Management in Empty Suits .

Let me explain.... currently, WDW lists a Deluxe Studio at WL WDW for $401 average per night, rack. David's Point Rentals shows the cost of the same room at $215 per night. Folks, that's a 53.75% savings. We OWN at the WL at WDW - and we know, with dues and up front investment, our actual COST is close to $90 per night.
This is VERY BAD from a WDW perspective... they have engineered a situation where it actually becomes PROFITABLE for a person with up front cash to buy into DVC with the intention of running a business.

This is NOT about how much one could save - rather, it is all about WDW eating it's seed corn. WDW, as of today, can not compete effectively against WDW . They have overpriced their rooms significantly, and are now in direct competition with themselves via the DVC Point Rental Channel.

Now - Disney executives tend to be a bit stupid.... but how long do you think these people will let this go on? They have set up a situation of competing with THEMSELVES - and the competition is significant. For a Point Rentee? Well, this is a Goldmine, as long as you trust the RENTER. For WDW? Pretty much an economic disaster....

 

[Deb & Bill]

The point really is that this is an exploitable characteristic of how DVC is currently run. It's not technically allowable, but it's overlooked. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. What I don't know is does this impact availability. How many of those marathon weekends, or thanksgiving week, or December are booked with rented points? It's not a question I think anyone will be able to answer definitively but I would be interested in the opinions.

What do you mean "not technically allowable"? Renting is allowed by the Public Offering Statement. Commercial renting is not and DVC has set that limit at 20 reservations per year.

Also, the marathon does not mean the parks are busy. In fact, they are usually not that busy during marathon weekend. Except for getting to the MK the morning of the race. Technically, it's a not so busy time and people take advantage of that, too.

 

[disneyfantotheend]

I know quite a few DVC owners who are runners and go for the race weekends. Although that isn't the direct point to this thread.

 

[Eventer98]

I am a DVC'er and also doing my first WDW marathon in April. I just booked last week, 7.5 months out, and availablity is still great. Now granted the marathon was just announced but still. I have also traveled during the January marathon and never had any issues getting what I wanted as long as I booked before the 7 month mark. The parks were never that much more crowded anyway. As for renting..I do it once a year to a good friend. It helps her out and it helps me pay my dues

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Related to this thread....

If WDW does NOT institute a crackdown or BAN on point renting? I will be surprised... and I will be convinced that WDW has Management in Empty Suits .

Let me explain.... currently, WDW lists a Deluxe Studio at WL WDW for $401 average per night, rack. David's Point Rentals shows the cost of the same room at $215 per night. Folks, that's a 53.75% savings. We OWN at the WL at WDW - and we know, with dues and up front investment, our actual COST is close to $90 per night.
This is VERY BAD from a WDW perspective... they have engineered a situation where it actually becomes PROFITABLE for a person with up front cash to buy into DVC with the intention of running a business.

This is NOT about how much one could save - rather, it is all about WDW eating it's seed corn. WDW, as of today, can not compete effectively against WDW . They have overpriced their rooms significantly, and are now in direct competition with themselves via the DVC Point Rental Channel.

Now - Disney executives tend to be a bit stupid.... but how long do you think these people will let this go on? They have set up a situation of competing with THEMSELVES - and the competition is significant. For a Point Rentee? Well, this is a Goldmine, as long as you trust the RENTER. For WDW? Pretty much an economic disaster....

This should be broken into a separate thread, IMHO. It may become a spirited discussion, but I bet it could be kept civil and it would be very interesting because I bet opinions are all over the place on this.

 

[MountainMouse]

What do you mean "not technically allowable"? Renting is allowed by the Public Offering Statement. Commercial renting is not and DVC has set that limit at 20 reservations per year.

Well, I may be a bit ignorant here. I was unaware that renting was allowed at all. How are the 20 reservations calculated? Per contract? I doubt many contracts make that amount. Really should be more of a percentage of the contract size (e.g. 250 contract, you can rent 500 points in a 5 year span). However, I'm not a lawyer, but if it does read in the public offering that the points can be rented there may be nothing that could be done about it.

 

[pangyal]

Considering dvc is meant to operate at 98% capacity, why does it matter to you or anyone whether the rooms are being filled with DVC members or renters? The rooms are going to be filled either way. It is more about how many points are distributed throughout the system and less about the demographics of who exactly is staying in the rooms at any given time.

And renting is 100% allowed, as a prior poster has also stated.

 

[DVC Mike]

Renting is expressly allowed. See this thread:

• ➤ Does DVC allow us to rent?

 

[DVC Mike]

What do you mean "not technically allowable"? Renting is allowed by the Public Offering Statement. Commercial renting is not and DVC has set that limit at 20 reservations per year.

Actually, that specific language referring to a limit of 20 reservations has been removed from the POS.

 

[freediverdude]

Is renting specifically stated somewhere as allowed, or is it something that isn't really mentioned, so people do it? In my paperwork I seem to remember some sort of language that mentioned family and friends usage, but nothing specifically about renting to strangers for profit. So I'm guessing Disney thinks it would be difficult to prohibit.

But regardless, my opinion is still that SSR is the problem, and puts a lot of pressure on the other resorts for reservations right at 7 months. I think it was a mistake to put a resort much larger than any of the others in a non-adjacent-to-a-theme-park location, and then sell that resort as being able to stay at any of the others instead.

 

[freediverdude]

Ok I see where DVCMike has quoted above that it apparently is expressly allowed. I really think they should have put some kind of limit on it though, like 2 or 3 per year. There's a lot of people out there who rent every year just to help pay for the points, and basically have a business, even though Disney won't stop that.

 

[DVC Mike]

Is renting specifically stated somewhere as allowed, or is it something that isn't really mentioned, so people do it? In my paperwork I seem to remember some sort of language that mentioned family and friends usage, but nothing specifically about renting to strangers for profit. So I'm guessing Disney thinks it would be difficult to prohibit.

Renting is expressly allowed. See this thread:

• ➤ Does DVC allow us to rent?

 

[HookdonWDW]

January is low points, and has always been popular with DVC owners. Northerners escaping the snow like to spend a decent amount of the month down there (but not necessarily in the parks). And there are definitely DVC members who are runners. I have reservations at DVC for both the Princess Marathon time period and the just announced Dark Side Marathon. I actually have reservations for the January Marathon weekend also, but that's because we leave on the Fantasy on the 9th. Add in the rooms that are being held by Member Satisfaction due to the WL construction and the rooms being rented out through WDTC.

Lots of different reasons for low availability besides DVC members renting points.

 

[HookdonWDW]

Ok I see where DVCMike has quoted above that it apparently is expressly allowed. I really think they should have put some kind of limit on it though, like 2 or 3 per year. There's a lot of people out there who rent every year just to help pay for the points, and basically have a business, even though Disney won't stop that.

I think that my 600+ points are mine to use as I'd like. Not really my issue if I managed to get the reservation someone else wanted. As someone else pointed out - they are my points to use. It's not like I use some secret method to book my reservations. Renting is allowed by the POS, so there's really no complaint here (BTW - we use way more of our points than we ever rent, but even if we didn't, as long as we don't fall into commercial rental, no harm, no foul...

 

[freediverdude]

Yes, they're YOUR points, not someone else's. You purchased them for you to use, not for someone else to use. Renting should just be an incidental thing that happens once in a while, not a "we have to rent out x number of points every year to pay this much" type of thing.

 

[DVC Mike]

DVC expressly allows renting. Section 5.1 of the Disney Vacation Club Membership Agreement states:

http://i235.*************************************Renting/DVCRightToRent2.png​

As stated above: "A Club Member may make a reservation to use a Vacation Home for the Club Member’s own use, make their use available to family or friends or guests, or rent them…. Neither DVD’s, DVCMC’s or the Association’s approval of a rental by a Club Member is required after a reservation has been made in the renter’s own name, and Club Member are permitted to rent their occupancy rights on terms and conditions that they may establish…”

The Home Resort Rules and Regulations (in the Multi-Site POS) further states:

http://i235.*************************************Renting/MakingReserForNonMembers_2.png​

 

[freediverdude]

You haven't read the thread below. I quote the section of the POS which states it's perfectly fine for you to use YOUR points to make reservations for others - including renting.

See this thread:

• Guide for members to rent out their points

Please re-read my post. I never said that renting is prohibited. I'm saying the general purpose of purchasing DVC should not be to rent every year.