Disney no longer coming up with original ideas for rides

[Astridia]

Very true. Ratatouille is a new trackless ride that is very good as well. IP tie ins can be done right. I'm also very excited for what pandora can bring. From what I keep hearing these mountains they are building will be like nothing they have done before.

I'm reluctant to speculate about Pandora, because of NFL. NFL was hyped up by the fans, not by Disney. But the primary purpose of NFL was to increase park capacity. I think a lot of people were disappointed.

Pandora may turn out to be spectacular, and I really hope that's true.

 

[Reddog1134]

As for the argument with EPCOT, I'm sorry you can't include it. From the day it was designed they did not want movie tie ins or Disney Characters in the park.

I don't understand why you can't include that in the argument when the reason you give is the EXACT reason why it fits into the argument.

 

[rteetz]

As an adult I agree. From the eyes of a 2, 4, 5 and 7 yr old it's amazing.

I'll agree with you there. When I was 6 I thought speedway was the greatest thing ever and wouldn't go on space mountain.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't understand why you can't include that in the argument when the reason you give is the EXACT reason why it fits into the argument.

Yep...

That's kinda "elephant?...I don't see no stinking elephant?!"...is it not?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Underwhelming for who? As an adult I can see it but that's not the target audience for the ride. My nieces and our little one love it and want to ride it over and over. Everything can't be thrilling and overly immersive when you have a huge part of your target audience under 10 and even more under 30".

No matter what age group you are trying for...that is NOT a high quality Disney attraction.

And even if it accomplishes it's goal as a people eater...the thing that built the hundreds of millions of visitors to Disney parks annually worldwide was to NOT built low quality attractions.
That's the rock the house is built on...it wasnt just Mickey Mouse...it was " i love Mickey Mouse and the place is amazing - nothing else like it"

Be our guest is basically the same for a restaurant...a "people eater" given false praise.

There are high level managers at TWDC who seem to feel that it's "less important" now. And that only works for awhile.

The customers will ultimately be left holding the bag without correction.

It could end up being an overpriced place with a product few people want - like an Ugg store...and the rest of us will just have to stay home and watch the NFL in 4D

 

[mcjaco]

I don't understand why you can't include that in the argument when the reason you give is the EXACT reason why it fits into the argument.

Not when the person I'm "arguing" with is spouting off on Opening Day attractions not being tied to movies. EPCOT does not fit the mold for Opening Day.

After that, it's fair game. And either way, the movie tie ins have improved parts of the park that were dead, so what's the beef? My kids love Nemo, and Donald in Mexico. After that, what are the tie ins? None. Until Frozen land comes a callin.'

No matter what age group you are trying for...that is NOT a high quality Disney attraction.

And even if it accomplishes it's goal as a people eater...the thing that built the hundreds of millions of visitors to Disney parks annually worldwide was to NOT built low quality attractions.
That's the rock the house is built on...it wasnt just Mickey Mouse...it was " i love Mickey Mouse and the place is amazing - nothing else like it"

Low quality? Good grief. Are you expecting them to knock your socks off for every thing the build? It's why they had A-E tickets for years.

Jeez.

Again. Demographics.

I've been going to the parks since I was 6 months old. My Dad went to MK the week it opened. He made sure we went to EPCOT within weeks of it's opening. Everytime I go, I have to sit back and remind myself that my past memories of the parts are probably filled with more nostalgia, then what it was really like. Are things as good as back in the 80s? Probably not, but I don't think the sky is falling attitude of many is on par either.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

No matter what age group you are trying for...that is NOT a high quality Disney attraction.

And even if it accomplishes it's goal as a people eater...the thing that built the hundreds of millions of visitors to Disney parks annually worldwide was to NOT built low quality attractions.
That's the rock the house is built on...it wasnt just Mickey Mouse...it was " i love Mickey Mouse and the place is amazing - nothing else like it"

Be our guest is basically the same for a restaurant...a "people eater" given false praise.

There are high level managers at TWDC who seem to feel that it's "less important" now. And that only works for awhile.

The customers will ultimately be left holding the bag without correction.

It could end up being an overpriced place with a product few people want - like an Ugg store...and the rest of us will just have to stay home and watch the NFL in 4D

Again though so much of that is based on individual perspective. Some people love Tron Track but I think it's actually a worse retheming than Stitch. There are tons of restaurants that people love and we would never go there again even if it was free. We've stopped TS meals because of cost, time and quality but we've done lunch at BOG and liked it everytime. It's CS food and what we've ordered has been good and with the refillable drinks and theming id rather eat there than Pinochio.

Disney has been overpriced for a long time but it draws on nostalgia and your childhood. I'm more concerned with them not maintaining current attractions and poor merchandising so that every store sells the same thing than whether or not a dark ride designed for small kids wows an adult. I may not love Mermaid myself but I love watching my son react to the colors, music and movement.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Low quality? Good grief. Are you expecting them to knock your socks off for every thing the build? It's why they had A-E tickets for years.

Jeez.

Again. Demographics.

I've been going to the parks since I was 6 months old. My Dad went to MK the week it opened. He made sure we went to EPCOT within weeks of it's opening. Everytime I go, I have to sit back and remind myself that my past memories of the parts are probably filled with more nostalgia, then what it was really like. Are things as good as back in the 80s? Probably not, but I don't think the sky is falling attitude of many is on par either.

Again... I already covered It. It doesn't matter what the "demographic" is...that matters in Wildwood, NJ...

Quality is quality. Why do it if you're not gonna go to your own standard that you created and throw around in a everyone's faces for 60 years?

If I recall...the same ride in California adventure was closed for a few months last year for "enhancements" beyond normal maintenance.
It was 3 years old at the time...

Adding things 3 years Into a rides existence...is that the MO of how things are being done stateside these days?

Since Im usually the one on the receiving end...id like to say there's a good bit of cherry picking and argumentative beyond the friendly confines here. I don't get it in this case. It was a nice back and forth without the "What do you want!?!l stock answer/excuse.

For a person...no problem...not for the Walt Disney Company... Who has enough capital laying around to build an actual Death Star made of cheese...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Again though so much of that is based on individual perspective. Some people love Tron Track but I think it's actually a worse retheming than Stitch. There are tons of restaurants that people love and we would never go there again even if it was free. We've stopped TS meals because of cost, time and quality but we've done lunch at BOG and liked it everytime. It's CS food and what we've ordered has been good and with the refillable drinks and theming id rather eat there than Pinochio.

Disney has been overpriced for a long time but it draws on nostalgia and your childhood. I'm more concerned with them not maintaining current attractions and poor merchandising so that every store sells the same thing than whether or not a dark ride designed for small kids wows an adult. I may not love Mermaid myself but I love watching my son react to the colors, music and movement.

I concede your point...in fact I tend to agree in alot of ways. Thank you for phrasing it with some class.

 

[rteetz]

If I recall...the same ride in California adventure was closed for a few months last year for "enhancements" beyond normal maintenance.
It was 3 years old at the time...

Yes correct they added some fish and black lights redid ariels hair. The same thing was done this march to MKs version. Disney should have had these upgrades in there from the start.

 

[Andrew015]

And either way, the movie tie ins have improved parts of the park that were dead, so what's the beef? My kids love Nemo, and Donald in Mexico. After that, what are the tie ins? None. Until Frozen land comes a callin.'

Snow White M&G in Germany
Beauty & Beast, Ratatiouille in France
Alice in Wonderland, Mary Poppins in England
Jasmine and Aladdin in Morocco
Phineaus and Ferb / Agent P scavenger hunt
Major character M&G in Future World​

Many of these character tie in's were very subtle, and even in my "anti-characterization of EPCOT" view, I felt that most of these were well-executed and done in such a fashion as to NOT deter from the intended mission/purpose of EPCOT and World Showcase. But I always felt that this was a slippery slope. And looks what's happening now to Norway... or should I call it the country formerly known as Norway (AKA Arendelle)...

Low quality? Good grief. Are you expecting them to knock your socks off for every thing the build?

No, but when it's the only thing that they've built in the past decade... AND they're spending half a billion dollars in the process... and advertising / pumping it up for YEARS as they drag out construction... I don't believe that it's unreasonable to have higher expectations above and beyond what was actually delivered...

 

[mcjaco]

Again... I already covered It. It doesn't matter what the "demographic" is...that matters in Wildwood, NJ...

Quality is quality. Why do it if you're not gonna go to your own standard that you created and throw around in a everyone's faces for 60 years?

If I recall...the same ride in California adventure was closed for a few months last year for "enhancements" beyond normal maintenance.
It was 3 years old at the time...

Adding things 3 years Into a rides existence...is that the MO of how things are being done stateside these days?

Since Im usually the one on the receiving end...id like to say there's a good bit of cherry picking and argumentative beyond the friendly cofines here. I don't get it in this case. It was a nice back and forth without the "What do you want!?!l stock answer/excuse.

For a person...no problem...not for the Walt Disney Company... Who has enough capital laying around to build an actual Death Star made of cheese...

I'd still say their quality is at the top. Is there competition with Universal? You bet. Although I've never read a Potter book, and likely never will so, I don't care about that land. At all. Kind of in the same boat about Pandora.

Bigger picture. If they've got a ride that is slated to go in Phase I, and there's stuff that's still not to their specs, but "good enough" it becomes a trick bag. "Do we delay opening for a year to get it right, when other parts of the park are going down? Or get this open, and re-visit in a couple years when the tech is up to snuff?" Most of the time, I'd go with route number 2. At least in this day and age.

Besides, wouldn't you consider that "plusing" a ride? Something even Walt wanted done all the time?

I don't get your sudden offense to the "what do you want?" It's a logical question. The demographic for these rides is much lower than anyone sitting in front of a computer complaining, or exhaulting all that is Disney. Like I said, Mermaid IMO was wonderful for what it was, and the details (the lightning bugs, the ripples in the water in the unload area, etc.) were impressive.

Won't argue about the capital. It's there. But welcome to US Corporations. Gotta make money to make the stockholders happy. Not the fanboys.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

No, but when it's the only thing that they've built in the past decade... AND they're spending half a billion dollars in the process... and advertising / pumping it up for YEARS as they drag out construction... I don't believe that it's unreasonable to have higher expectations above and beyond what was actually delivered...

I don't look at that from a single ride persepctive though. That whole area is soo much better that the original Fantasyland that I kind of wish they would redo the whole thing. I liked the Renaissance feel of the original but from 7dmt back through to the Circus is just really cool with the feel and transition of being in the movie/area.

 

[circus4u]

Wasn't 20,000 leagues just the submarine voyage first and then once the movie came out it got the movie tie in? Fantasyland was where and mainly still are the movie tie ins. Like ddland said the movies were less frequent and the rides were a good way to experience them.

Wasn't the submarine ride at Disneyland, at least when it opened, based on the nuclear submarine, Nautilus. I was only 7 or 8 when it opened, but at the time, it was a big deal when the Nautilus, the first nuclear powered submarine, navigated under the North Pole. Also, the first submarine to do that. The 20,000 leagues ride, based on the movie, was the ride at Disneyworld.

And since I am "disturbing the grey matter" in my head, didn't the original Disneyland also have a circus themed area, complete with a tent and circus acts? It wasn't popular since people didn't go to Disneyland to see a regular circus type attraction and was replaced. (Definitely not sure on this, memories from 60 years or so ago tend to get distorted and confused with other events.)

 

[mcjaco]

Snow White M&G in Germany
Beauty & Beast, Ratatiouille in France
Alice in Wonderland, Mary Poppins in England
Jasmine and Aladdin in Morocco
Phineaus and Ferb / Agent P scavenger hunt
Major character M&G in Future World​

Many of these character tie in's were very subtle, and even in my "anti-characterization of EPCOT" view, I felt that most of these were well-executed and done in such a fashion as to NOT deter from the intended mission/purpose of EPCOT and World Showcase. But I always felt that this was a slippery slope. And looks what's happening now to Norway... or should I call it the country formerly known as Norway (AKA Arendelle)...



No, but when it's the only thing that they've built in the past decade... AND they're spending half a billion dollars in the process... and advertising / pumping it up for YEARS as they drag out construction... I don't believe that it's unreasonable to have higher expectations above and beyond what was actually delivered...

I'm in agreement with the part. Most of it's been so subtle it not noticable. I'm not a fan of the Arendale add on to Norway....a Frozen ride....meh, ok. But a whole area? Not so much. And my kids love Frozen. I wish they'd let it go.

I love the they haven't built anything in a decade, or so many years arguments. Almost every decade, they built a park. An entire park! It wasn't until the last decade things slowed down.

New Fantasyland didn't do a whole lot for me. The Dwarves coaster....it's ok. I'll ride BTMRR all day before Dwarves. Mermaid, is what I expected. Again, my kids LOVED it. Dumbo is Dumbo. And Barnstormer is an off the shelf kiddie coaster, so nothing exciting there anyway.

I used to get up in arms about all this, but after watching hours of video tape my Dad took over the years (and some 16mm film), I think my nostalgic memories cloud what the parks were really like, more than anything.

 

[Andrew015]

I love the they haven't built anything in a decade, or so many years arguments. Almost every decade, they built a park. An entire park! It wasn't until the last decade things slowed down.

Everything slowed down... except for your park admission, which has gone up 100% during that time. That's not an exaggeration, either. Literally, 100%. Single-day admission was $52 in 2004. Today, it's $105. Does Mermaid and Barnstormer really justify that over the decade-long time period of "no new construction"??

That's my beef.

 

[rteetz]

Wasn't the submarine ride at Disneyland, at least when it opened, based on the nuclear submarine, Nautilus. I was only 7 or 8 when it opened, but at the time, it was a big deal when the Nautilus, the first nuclear powered submarine, navigated under the North Pole. Also, the first submarine to do that. The 20,000 leagues ride, based on the movie, was the ride at Disneyworld.

And since I am "disturbing the grey matter" in my head, didn't the original Disneyland also have a circus themed area, complete with a tent and circus acts? It wasn't popular since people didn't go to Disneyland to see a regular circus type attraction and was replaced. (Definitely not sure on this, memories from 60 years or so ago tend to get distorted and confused with other events.)

Interesting points. There were a bunch of opening day things that just didn't last at Disneyland something didn't even last until the next year. At that point they were learning the theme park business since it was all new.

 

[mcjaco]

Here's pic from our first visit to EPCOT Nov. 11, 1982. You guys really think these were good character tie ins??? YIKES!

 

[Reddog1134]

Everything slowed down... except for your park admission, which has gone up 100% during that time. That's not an exaggeration, either. Literally, 100%. Single-day admission was $52 in 2004. Today, it's $105. Does Mermaid and Barnstormer really justify that over the decade-long time period of "no new construction"??

That's my beef.

There's no doubt that the price of a one day ticket is insane. But really, how many people are buying one day tickets? (regardless of price). Most of the increase is due to how Disney restructured the daily prices. When you compare a long term ticket from 2004 to now, there's only about a $12 per day price increase.

 

[Andrew015]

There's no doubt that the price of a one day ticket is insane. But really, how many people are buying one day tickets? (regardless of price). Most of the increase is due to how Disney restructured the daily prices. When you compare a long term ticket from 2004 to now, there's only about a $12 per day price increase.

The same logic applies to all ticket levels. AP's have gone up 85% during that same period of time. Inflation during this time period tallies up to roughly 25%.

Moral of the story, we've been paying huge, incremental premiums during this time period with very little to show for it.