Has anyone regretted becoming a DVC member?

[Happyinwonerland]

I keep seeing the dues cost being mentioned as your room rate per night when you do your math, but what a out the purchase price? How does that factor in?

I have no idea what dvc retails for, but I know it ain't cheap. You have to factor in the upfront cost when you calculate your annual room cost.

 

[Jennasis]

My only regret is not being able to afford more points...yet.

 

[nkereina]

We are not owners but have been researching and pondering it for over a year now. One thing I see frequently mentioned that has truly given me pause are the ancillary costs associated with DVC. Not just the membership itself or the monthly dues, but the ticket costs, food costs, airfare, etc. Ticket prices, food prices, and airefare will only rise every year. There could very well be an instance when we can't afford to shell out $600+ on tickets and airfare, yet we'd feel compelled to travel anyway since we own DVC and need to use the points. True that we can always rent them out, but then what's the point of owning?

We've also recently gained an affinity for Universal. We love their resorts and it just makes sense to stay on property at Universal, with their benefits. Our last few trips have resulted in us cutting our Disney time short to tack on a few nights at Universal. So if we continue with this trend, it's just another expense and another instance where DVC may not be right for us.

 

[disneynutz]

...says the guy with contracts at five different resorts.

Actually we own 6 different resorts.

DVC used to be a different animal, they actually seemed to care about their members. We knew the names of many of the MS advisors, the management was more open, we had lunch with a couple of them at Fulton's Crab House and they paid for the meal. I once sent an email to member satisfaction and they connected me to the President of DVC because he wanted to discuss the issue first hand. We received a DVC basket from the Disney Florist when our room had an issue, another time a DVC flower vase on DW's birthday.

When we bought BLT we got a 7 day Disney cruise and name on the fountain, other resorts developer points, our name on the tapestry at AKV.

Bill





To the OP: I think you are unlikely to find too many people here that are dissatisfied with DVC, else they wouldn't be posting regularly on the board. I have no doubt there is a considerable level of dissatisfied customers, though exactly what percent I don't know (realistically I would guess at LEAST 10 %). PP mentioned that there are only a 500 contracts on the market, but I don't know how they would know that. What I do know is there are 1000s of resale contracts sold each year, and though not all of them are sold because of people being dissatisfied, that is certainly a factor.

However, I think that likely the main reason people are dissatisfied is that they went into it without really understanding what they are getting into. This is human nature, or at least human nature for a large portion of humanity. Direct timeshsare sales are mostly done spur-of-the-moment, and there is often regret from people in not really knowing what they were getting into.

"Buyer beware" is what I would advise - really understand what you are getting into...both the pros and the cons. You'll be much more likely to be happy with your decision if you do.

 

[Masonmj84]

We are not DVC owerns and I've been somewhat on the fence re DVC for some time.

In our situation, the reasons to buy include:

1. We like to stay at deluxe resorts

2. We like to go to WDW at least once every 1-2 years

3. Prices just keep going up and up and it would be nice to be able to at least somewhat "lock in" some of that cost upfront

4. We have enough cash to not need to finance the purchase

But we also have some signficant reasons to be hesitant:

1. We strongly prefer going during off-seasons (i.e., when most kids are in school) and our oldest is now two years away from middle school (and when he finishes high school, our youngest will start middle school), so these types of trips may not be practical for much longer

2. While we're currently Disney addicts, we may not always be, especially as the kids get older, family tastes change, etc.

3. We like doing split stays at resorts closest to the parks, which would mean multiple contracts (we could try to book different resorts under the same contract, but I'm not keen on the idea of sweating out availablity at a popular resort at the 7 month mark, I'd want the peace of mind of being able to book at 11 months at each of my favorite resorts)

4. I worry about having difficulty selling the contract(s) if we suffer a signficant financial setback (especially if this occurs in the midst of a national recession)

5. DW already thinks we spend way too much on Disney (of the two of us, I'm the bigger Disney addict) and would not be keen on us dropping big chunks of change for DVC contracts, even if convinced that it may save us money over the long term.

Honestly, if it wasn't for this last point, we'd probably lean towards buying (as I view purchasing DVC as something for which both spouses need to be totally on board).

Ironically, I'd probably be more open to buying DVC (and have better luck convincing DW) if we were financially independent, retired empty nesters with grandkids. We could go anytime we wanted and/or treat our adult children and grandchildren to fantastic vacations.

 

[supersnoop]

I keep seeing the dues cost being mentioned as your room rate per night when you do your math, but what a out the purchase price? How does that factor in?

I have no idea what dvc retails for, but I know it ain't cheap. You have to factor in the upfront cost when you calculate your annual room cost.

The initial cost should be amortized over the life of the contract, like an annuity. You have to remember that the contract will always have some sort of asset value. At this point, even with a high buy-in cost, most contracts are holding about 80% of their initial value. So, while the cost of a stay isn't "just" maintenance fees, that is the majority of the cost.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

Except in 2030 or whenever the contracts expire, they are worth...nothing.nada.zilch.

 

[Jennasis]

Except in 2030 or whenever the contracts expire, they are worth...nothing.nada.zilch.

When our contract expires, both DH and I will likely be right behind it LOL.

 

[supersnoop]

Except in 2030 or whenever the contracts expire, they are worth...nothing.nada.zilch.

That would be the point of amortizing it like an annuity. But, no contract expires until 2042. I expect depreciation to outpace inflation somewhere around 2027 for those contracts; that's when the present value should begin declining.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

But what is the true cost of that vacation, that's what I'm asking?

This is my biggest peeve with time shares. You can never get a straight answer. How much did you pay for your DVC divided by number of years you have vacationed there plus annual dues = your annual cost. What will it really cost the OP?

 

[MsTessP]

MsTesP- how much is your timeshare in addition to fees? How long have you owned? Is it paid off? Do you pay anything besides the $800/year?

You say 3 long weekends, how many night total are you meaning?

There are no other costs other than membership fees and initial buy-in. I have owned for 5 years. It was paid off the day I bought it as I paid cash for resale after putting money away for some months. I saved over $9,000 over what I would have paid Disney directly for those same points. Other than the $800/year, we pay for season passes for the two of us, Tables in Wonderland (for restaurant discounts) and, of course, plane tickets from MA. Although these are not directly to do with DVC, they should be taken into consideration when deciding to buy as most of these "other" expenses will also go up over time. My 3 long weekends end up being around 12 day total each year.

 

[MsTessP]

In my case, even with my buy-in amortized over the remaining years and added to the membership fees, I still average well under $100/night for rooms that normally go for $350-$700/night.

 

[JimMIA]

But what is the true cost of that vacation, that's what I'm asking?

This is my biggest peeve with time shares. You can never get a straight answer. How much did you pay for your DVC divided by number of years you have vacationed there plus annual dues = your annual cost. What will it really cost the OP?

The answer to this question -- and to most questions/comments -- is easily revealed by just a tiny bit of research.

To keep saying "I don't know the answer" simply reaffirms that I don't know the answer...but I wanna comment anyway.

 

[DebbieB]

I keep seeing the dues cost being mentioned as your room rate per night when you do your math, but what a out the purchase price? How does that factor in?

I have no idea what dvc retails for, but I know it ain't cheap. You have to factor in the upfront cost when you calculate your annual room cost.

I figure the cost by adding the original cost/years + dues. I bought in 1999 for $65 per point for 250 points. There were 42 years left, so $1.55 per point. Plus $6.07 dues for 2015 (BWV). So $7.62 per point this year. I have a BWV studio reservation for early December. 7 nights, 107 points = $815.34. Rack Rate = $454 per night = $3,178. Approximately 75% off.

 

[skier_pete]

I haven't been able to find the benefit in it. Even if you just pay the monthly $100 fee mentioned earlier and nothing else, that's $1200 a year. I can get a week's hotel for that off site at a nice place. Tack on the actual purchase price and it becomes a waste of money.


My vacations are planned every year too. And I'm not tied down. To disney, in the event my priorities change.


Timeshares are a bad idea. Timeshares where you don't actually own anything are an even worse idea.

IF you consider that you are perfectly happy to be off-site, you should never EVER consider DVC. Even if you wanted a timeshare, there are off-site timeshares that you could buy into at a fraction of the cost for bigger units.


We only bought in when we were convinced we will be using it long after our kids are grown, and will want to continue to stay on site.

I keep seeing the dues cost being mentioned as your room rate per night when you do your math, but what a out the purchase price? How does that factor in?


I have no idea what dvc retails for, but I know it ain't cheap. You have to factor in the upfront cost when you calculate your annual room cost.

As others have mentioned, we calculate the up front cost as the total cost divided by the total # of points over the life of the contract, I don't have exact #s in front of me, but it was about $12500 for 6200 points, or just slightly above $2.00 per point. That combined with our annual maintenance fees at $6.17 per point or something like that (AKV) tells you the cost. We don't factor in that we could sell the contract and make most if not all of our buy-in back, but that could be a consideration for some.

I am not sure why there is confusion about how to compare. I HAVE to buy park tickets and airfare whether I use DVC or not. The cost should be comparing room to room.

We are not owners but have been researching and pondering it for over a year now. One thing I see frequently mentioned that has truly given me pause are the ancillary costs associated with DVC. Not just the membership itself or the monthly dues, but the ticket costs, food costs, airfare, etc. Ticket prices, food prices, and airefare will only rise every year. There could very well be an instance when we can't afford to shell out $600+ on tickets and airfare, yet we'd feel compelled to travel anyway since we own DVC and need to use the points. True that we can always rent them out, but then what's the point of owning?


We've also recently gained an affinity for Universal. We love their resorts and it just makes sense to stay on property at Universal, with their benefits. Our last few trips have resulted in us cutting our Disney time short to tack on a few nights at Universal. So if we continue with this trend, it's just another expense and another instance where DVC may not be right for us.

Again, yes airfares and tickets and food go up. But they go up whether you own DVC or stay in a room. Now, if you are losing interest in Disney, then now is probably not the time to buy dvc.

 

[John.G]

We bought OKW in 93, and are just now adding on more points at VGC, as we left the New England area ten years ago and we wanted a west coast (Disneyland) home that is easier to get to. We originally did a 5 day stay at the Grand Floridian, in April 1993, family of 5 with the "food and fun card." That vacation cost us just over $5K just for the Disney aspect (but did include meals).

We did the DVC tour on that trip and bought in.

Looking back on the purchase, we bought 310 points for $14,260 ($46/pt). Over 49 years, that's under $0.94/pt/year.
We also got free tickets into the parks through 1999, so that saved us a bundle and is NOT included in the calculation.

(As an estimate, assume that a family of 5 saved $500 in tickets for 7 years. That's $3,500 in perks that brings
the purchase from 14,260 to 10,760, or from $0.94/pt to under $0.71/pt. When you consider that we have gone
to WDW twice (or more) a year and that we have gone more than just 5 days, that $500/year number is very
conservative.)

This year's MF cost is $5.84/pt (I believe), plus 0.94 -> $6.78/pt.

A 1BR is 176 points/week low season, costing $1,193.28.
A 1BR is 300 points/week high season, costing $2,034.00.
A studio is 76 points/week low season, costing $515.28.
A studio is 152 points/week high season, costing $1,030.56.

Friday and Saturday nights are more expensive, so we tend to stay Sunday-Friday (5 days). That stretches the points out.
The high season is two weeks: when school is out in the spring and Christmas.
We did Christmas/New Years one year and I would NEVER do it again.
I feel sorry for the people buying the fixed contracts for week 52 because it's Christmas in hell.

THERE IS SOMETHING HERE THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS MENTIONED THUSFAR:

Over the last 22 years we have enjoyed DVC immensely. My kids loved it and they are now 36, 34 and 30.
We still do family reunions (only with spouses and grandchildren now). Space is getting tight.

We are a close family that still vacations together. One day Leslie and I will be gone.
Our membership will outlive us and belong to our children. We know that the kids will continue to use it and keep a close family.
That makes us happy. The 3 of them can share the cost of the MF's. If things are tight, they can rent the points out.
At $11/pt this year, there would be a $1500 profit that could be used to subsidize next years MF's. Even if we/they rented for
the remainder of the time on the contract, if $1500/year could be earned then we would stand to make more than $40K over
the fees. Subtract out the initial expenditure ... and ...

Another thing is that our membership still has value. Even on the resale market, we could sell our contract today at $15-17K.
That's more than we paid for it, making ALL of the vacations that we have taken to date cost us only the MF's.

I realize that the costs for DVC have increased over the years, both in buy-in and fees.
But then, the costs of everything increase over time. We were lucky to buy when we did.

I know that this all sounds rosy and that I am suggesting that this as a big money maker, but my point is that for those that only
crunch the numbers and don't see the other value that this holds, there is no major financial downside. I have never owned another
timeshare so I can't speak with experience.

Bottom line (and sorry for being a windbag), we do not regret it and look forward to passing our ROFR on the new VGC contract.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

ok, i thought about this since the day you asked. my first impulse was to say heck yes. but that
isn't true. the thing is, it bothered me , wasting all the time we have , over issues we should
have never experienced. dvc is not like the company of disney. it is sloppy and there are
way too many "conflicts of interest" ( groups/businesses/even individuals) that are hidden.
however, it motivated me toward learning a heck more than i ever wanted about time/shares.

when i first started reading about other owners...i was surprised how we different we were in
all the reasoning why do a dvc investment. now like many point of reference about
dvc---"investment" isn't about a dollar amount but buying an interest in doing disney
vacations for us, our family, our extended families-present/future.

i am tired of the smoke screens---& there should be better communications between the
real people running things and owners with insights, especially about wrong doings @
all the levels.

this isn't a bad system but there are bad things.no body expects perfections but there
is no excuse for the lack of professional problem solving and corrective
measures. some issues have real ethical meanings behind them..for ex. all these
rci using dvc to rent their useless timeshares.....crosses this line. the fact they
are doing it, means the renters should not be in any dvc room....& since
members dues are paying all the utilities.....via dues, disney is "guilty "-for not
picking up their costs & stopping this... ongoing stealing.

however, all of these things/issues can be easily fixed. and it just like all the
issues/problems....can be improved on. that is my expectation. as an owner,
..i think rci is useless and has no values by the current set up. ( & i do not
value the dvc experts here that own rci time shares while they are
taking full advantages of dvc owners ). but it is wrong that dvc knows rci
is renting rooms out & permitting owners to pay the dues for the
utilities they have no right using..even one cent!

the "below copy" see resort section about e-bay rentals, is a renter, bragging on renting
rci to get dvc. if dvc was like disney, they would pay back every owner all the $. read her reply-
noticed? she done this many times....makes me as owner,wonder
how much of my dues they stole.


{anyhoo, if you are a direct /dvc only member the reply given by #3 poster should be a red flag. the other red flag
are the other owners...are also rci & trying to cover the turf /tracks.

was in lil'debate by the #1 time shares expert here, and of course used the same old tricks
of challenging instead of recognizing the facts. funny too me, he didn't posted here. of course not!
i also recall other manipulative techniques , all in an effort to keep the old system from corrective
measures...for ex. like when dvc make any trades then rci own the dvc room is a wrong
doing ..when it is hiding all these rci rentals.

so if you are true dvc owner? direct/no other time shares then i am stating in simple terms,
we are losing the most by these "renters" , who are stealing rooms( have no rights @ all
to have gotten by this ). .. and you do you think is paying for the utilities & damages?

and where are our dvc officials stopping every one doing this? i know dvc is aware, because
i have submitted documented cases , over & over. ( so why poster #3 felt compel to brag
about her taking advantage of others , it is not uncommon. many take
advantages of others but just because you got away with it , does not make it right)
while i am sure many think it is "funny & get a kick out of this" -to me, it is stealing.....
plain & simple. this whole thread, reminded me of dvc professional obligations
to protect owners from theft. nor do i care to hear about all the excuses....dvc knows what is going on..via the
way..every room is registered. for example, go thru all these rooms that were rci rentals & "pay back"
our dues. this situation needs a neutral monitors with no connections to time shares & let us see
why ....these rooms are not being cancelled. if disney is charging my dues one cent to pay these non/
members-- using this illegal system, .."is" an ethical issue.

ok , dvc ? you have been redirected time & time again....when do we start reading about these illegal
rentals, begins posting & c/o-you cancelled the rooms--rooms/utilities/facilities/benefits...?

the dvc system too me, is sloppy. it is shocking of all the internal improvements that could be
made..esp. keeping dues/costs down ..and are being ignored. why? to me, it reaks of
too many conflicts on interests, much like owners can see from this one post.

from all the indicators i have learn from here, & if dvc was progressive with motivation- to max their
profits...first they will hold rci accountable for every single e-bay "rental" & do away with all ties when
the contact ends. ( these rentals are easy to recognized so rci should be required they took the
proper action so every single rental has no room & thus ending this business...that true owners
are paying for )

hints, noticed those with rci timeshares & their reactions & why.

as for dvc monitors , i am expecting a more "pro active" attitude & some "tweaking" toward limiting
the costs & better "protection" of true owners.

also when i first read this, i knew certain experts would avoid the issues it rasied.

yeah, i think i will make another copy. i think true owners need a separate dvc department so
many issues could get dealt with..via professional interventions. the rci connections from my
view points...is a disease , like a cancer.....& then pt. ( true owners ) needs similar type
treatments...."cut it out".

..i am a lil'curious about why poster #3 posted? are you a dvc owner now?}

Lil' Grumpy, Yesterday at 3:12 AM
#8

MomTo3PrincessesInNJ Mouseketeer
Joined:
Jun 15, 2012
Messages:
473
cristen72 said: ↑



......."true owner" has a specific reference/not a personal judgment- direct dvc with the intended
intention to used dvc for self/family..not buying a bunch of resales for a business or
promoting personal agendas via their standard presentations.

dvc too me, is a tool with a range of functions. i do not expect perfections but i think it is in need
of some new operators/or restrictions, if they are going to produced the desired results. it is bothersome
to read how happy these rci renters are bragging when they are stealing from owners. it
is a fact, that because you can do something- does not mean you have any "right" to do it.
for example, as a owner, it is wrong for disney to charged me- dues- to pay for your
vacation. ( i am old -fashioned in that way).

so after 6 years, blt owners/only..the jury is still out. in many ways we are very please with
our product/investment....but there are issues, too many to ignore.

 

[nkereina]

Again, yes airfares and tickets and food go up. But they go up whether you own DVC or stay in a room. Now, if you are losing interest in Disney, then now is probably not the time to buy dvc.

Obviously they go up whether you stay in a room or own DVC. But my point was that if you're not an owner, you have the option to skip Disney or take a different vacation that better fits your budget that year. If you own points, you will inevitably feel compelled to use them and may be paying exorbitant prices in the ancillary costs that you're not comfortable with. You have more flexibility outside of ownership, which is just a point I was making for OP to consider. It's been a big consideration for us when thinking about pulling the DVC trigger.

 

[chalee94]

I keep seeing the dues cost being mentioned as your room rate per night when you do your math, but what a out the purchase price? How does that factor in?

I have no idea what dvc retails for, but I know it ain't cheap. You have to factor in the upfront cost when you calculate your annual room cost.

my non-DVC timeshare was purchased for $1 on ebay, so not so much.

that DVC contract was less than $4000 up front (with over 30 years left of use), which is just not that expensive (and would be more comparable to a hotel stay than the larger contracts). again, it's very scalable and depends on how large a contract you buy - based on what you are trying to accomplish. and again, offsite will always be cheaper and i would never recommend DVC for someone who is happy staying offsite.

assuming you are not actually a troll (which is getting difficult), here are some examples of up front prices (which are negotiable):

http://www.dvc-resales.com/dvclisting-P.cfm

 

[Dean]

I haven't been able to find the benefit in it. Even if you just pay the monthly $100 fee mentioned earlier and nothing else, that's $1200 a year. I can get a week's hotel for that off site at a nice place. Tack on the actual purchase price and it becomes a waste of money.

My vacations are planned every year too. And I'm not tied down. To disney, in the event my priorities change.

Timeshares are a bad idea. Timeshares where you don't actually own anything are an even worse idea.

For many, even those that buy in, this would have been the best approach. However, I suspect a purchase that was on the smaller side would save you money and given you other options. But it is a commitment that isn't right for everyone.

I keep seeing the dues cost being mentioned as your room rate per night when you do your math, but what a out the purchase price? How does that factor in?

I have no idea what dvc retails for, but I know it ain't cheap. You have to factor in the upfront cost when you calculate your annual room cost.

The initial cost should be amortized over the life of the contract, like an annuity. You have to remember that the contract will always have some sort of asset value. At this point, even with a high buy-in cost, most contracts are holding about 80% of their initial value. So, while the cost of a stay isn't "just" maintenance fees, that is the majority of the cost.

I know some like to ignore the math but the reality is that the up front costs and any financing costs have real value and should be factored in. The question is how you do so. Personally I feel that just taking the cost up front and dividing by the remaining time is a horrible way of looking at it unless one simply is wealthy and doesn't care about throwing away money and few of those people are going to buy DVC. And assuming one would vacation anyway, largely at Disney, just taking the full amount as an investment is overcall as well. My personal view is to feel that one can only afford it if they can pay cash and then take half the initial investment FOR RESALE and look at it as a short term investment (1% MM) and half as a long term investment (I use 8% after tax). Then assume one would have spend down the MM funds first over the amount of dues not paid then move to the long term investment after that and pull it down over time. For retail, I would include the amount over resale as most or all long term dollars. That's one side of the equation, the other is what real savings or real added value one is getting directly due to the PURCHASE. IMO using rack rate for DVC is the worst choice possible. A discounted rack rate of 20% is only semi OK, a better comparison should be either what one would have spent without buying DVC or renting privately. And given that there's REAL risk to owning any timeshare, including DVC, there needs to be real and significant savings/added value. It's essentially like buying the DP just to break even, it doesn't make sense if that's the best you can do. And all of this still assumes one feels staying on property is worth the extra costs.