WDW resort going forward

[rteetz]

Care to elaborate?

Disney didn't seem to have a limit on how many tickets they sold crowds were out of control for a hard ticketed event. Most people got to see between 1-3 characters because the lines were so long. Merchandise sold out around 10 PM special food items sold out as well. Lots of alcoholic drinks were available. Reports were said sprinklers were going off in one of the character lines. Guest services had long lines themselves. Disney started handing out refunds once herds of people were unhappy. Most people throughout twitter instagram and Facebook said the event was terribly organized. Most people also said the fireworks were pretty much the highlight of the event everything else was a bust. There was a special meet and greet with Constantine from muppets most wanted with the actual voice actor that line was well over 3 hours and was closed early in the night.

 

[rteetz]

Here's a blog from the people of the DIS on the event.

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/08/24/...eaves-guests-in-long-lines-most-of-the-night/

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Jim Hill has a new Podcast with Len Testa out today. Guess what its all about DVC!

The first 30 minutes is basically him going over the history of DVC.

Then we get to what he thinks is coming according to his sources.

1. Caribbean Beach is looking at a 7 story tower of sorts that will be all DVC and include a bar/restuarant on the top where you can view illuminations.

2. This would also get a new boat access canal to epcot

3. Wilderness Lodge is next on the DVC list with just conversion of existing room and maybe some over water bungalows like the Poly. A new pool may come as well.

4. River Country DVC is supposedly back on the table. Plans were actually out there and were leaked in 2012ish. A DVC was supposed to go where river country is. This faced money issues and was thrown out. Now speculation is back is full force especially because height test gallons were recently seen in this area.

5. Beach and Yacht Club will see more DVC. This would also be just a conversion of existing rooms into DVC. Apparently according to Jim Hill those two resorts have an occupancy problem. Other sources have said Disney won't mess with the Yacht club because of its convention business. I would have to agree and I also don't think it has occupancy problems because of these conventions. Beach Club I could very well see getting more DVC rooms.

A lot of this goes along with what others are saying. Disney is not backing down from the DVC drug they have been on.

My only "thought out" response to this is

ARGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

(Yes...like when Lucy pulls out the football)

 

[lavatea]

Disney didn't seem to have a limit on how many tickets they sold crowds were out of control for a hard ticketed event. Most people got to see between 1-3 characters because the lines were so long. Merchandise sold out around 10 PM special food items sold out as well. Lots of alcoholic drinks were available. Reports were said sprinklers were going off in one of the character lines. Guest services had long lines themselves. Disney started handing out refunds once herds of people were unhappy. Most people throughout twitter instagram and Facebook said the event was terribly organized. Most people also said the fireworks were pretty much the highlight of the event everything else was a bust. There was a special meet and greet with Constantine from muppets most wanted with the actual voice actor that line was well over 3 hours and was closed early in the night.

geez

 

[Planogirl]

A DVC tower at CBR? How in the world will that fit into the theming?

I'm a bit sad to see all of this talk about yet more expansion. Everything increases except park capacity.

 

[clsteve]

A DVC tower at CBR? How in the world will that fit into the theming?

I'm a bit sad to see all of this talk about yet more expansion. Everything increases except park capacity.

Yes.

At this rate, they're going to need to change Parks and Resorts to Resorts and Parks

 

[mom2rtk]

Everything increases except park capacity.

Yes.

At this rate, they're going to need to change Parks and Resorts to Resorts and Parks

Amen!

I think they saw Saturday night at Villains Unleashed what happens when you overestimate park (or event) capacity. I hope they took note. But I doubt it. I think even after the refunds they still made buckets of profit. And nobody seems particularly concerned with the long-term impact of these things right now.

 

[dinolounger]

Care to elaborate?

Hopefully, you read the subsequent post with a link to review blog.

Suffice to say, the event got seriously poor grades. It was oversold and much of the product provided was either in short supply, substandard or both.

Hopefully, Disney learns a lesson from this!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

While I agree that DVC towers at Caribbean, port Orleans, etc would kick the hornets nest (and not necessarily from the "conventional thinking" angle)...

I have to remind everyone that in the aggregate, wdw parks are seldom near crowded or capacity.

So while we regulars are bored STUPID at times with the same old schtick (and in my case...that leads to constant business, price tracking, and general distaste for the species and their bizarre self destructive habits)...the reality is that they have one large park that is "fairly crowded"...one small park that is "moderately crowded"...and two large parks that are nowhere near crowded.

And so I say...STOP paying more for this stuff...
Or, realizing that they will never lower prices...dump what you don't need and squeeze out their margins to send a message (at a minimum...NEVER purchase a tshirt with WDW 20__ or "Disney parks" on it)

 

[tjkraz]

I'm a bit sad to see all of this talk about yet more expansion. Everything increases except park capacity.

I've never seen the connection between Disney hotels and theme park crowd levels. People don't choose to visit the Disney parks solely because of the existence of another Disney hotel. When they opened Art of Animation, it didn't prompt more people to visit WDW...it simply gave them another lodging alternative AFTER they had already decided to visit.

 

[rteetz]

A DVC tower at CBR? How in the world will that fit into the theming? I'm a bit sad to see all of this talk about yet more expansion. Everything increases except park capacity.

Does disney really care about theming a whole lot anymore? Disney just wants to make money and they want to find as many ways as possible to do so.

 

[rteetz]

I've never seen the connection between Disney hotels and theme park crowd levels. People don't choose to visit the Disney parks solely because of the existence of another Disney hotel. When they opened Art of Animation, it didn't prompt more people to visit WDW...it simply gave them another lodging alternative AFTER they had already decided to visit.

Exactly and disney never really wanted AoA in the first place. They had an existing building that was for pop decades that they used and was abandoned. This was Eisner who started that project Iger wasn't a fan but ended up fixing it and probably making that side look better than if it were what it was originally supposed to be.

Disney is seeing hotel occupancy rates that they don't want to see so that is why they will convert deluxe rooms into DVC so that's not a problem anymore. DVC keeps selling so until it stops selling disney isn't going to stop building it. If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally.

 

[Planogirl]

I can see using existing rooms for DVC if the resort isn't doing so well but I don't get building towers or view-blocking rooms over the water. These add-ons not only play havoc with theming but they have the potential to increase crowds. I would bet that Disney hopes to fill all rooms and I'm looking at it from the viewpoint that they figure out a way to succeed.

The comment was made that the parks aren't really all that busy. I doubt that such things as tiering would have been implemented if at the very least ride capacity wasn't an issue.

 

[tjkraz]

Does disney really care about theming a whole lot anymore?

They sure seem to. Some would say recently they've spent too much money on theming and not enough on substance (new Fantasyland, Animal Kingdom park.)

If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally.

Ugh. Yeah, because the people paying $800 per night for Poly rooms and $30 for cheap "2014" t-shirts and $60 per day for a pre-paid dining plan are completely blameless.

Disney has over 25,000 hotel rooms vs. about 3500 villas. While Disney obviously values the returns it gets from DVC point sales, it's a little misguided to hold DVC accountable for all that ails Walt Disney World.

 

[tjkraz]

I can see using existing rooms for DVC if the resort isn't doing so well but I don't get building towers or view-blocking rooms over the water. These add-ons not only play havoc with theming but they have the potential to increase crowds. I would bet that Disney hopes to fill all rooms and I'm looking at it from the viewpoint that they figure out a way to succeed.

IF that Caribbean Beach renovation even happens, it's 10 years away from completion. Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club and perhaps Yacht Club hotel conversations are currently higher priorities, along with the Ft. Wilderness new construction. Poly DVC isn't even finished yet.

Countless things could happen to derail the proposed CB project along the way.

That said, have a little faith that Disney wouldn't just slap up a 7-story tower in a location where it's completely out of place.

The comment was made that the parks aren't really all that busy. I doubt that such things as tiering would have been implemented if at the very least ride capacity wasn't an issue.

Individual attraction capacity has always been an issue. Even in Walt's day, not every guest entering Disneyland could ride Autopia, Matterhorn, Peter Pan and most other attractions. The attractions with the highest capacity--like POTC and Haunted Mansion--didn't even debut until after Walt's passing.

But the parks themselves have sufficient infrastructure to hold many more people than they currently do. Park closures due to high attendance are rare--just a few days per year around Christmas and Easter--and even then it's usually just Magic Kingdom and occasionally Epcot.

On an average operating day, none of the parks come close to any maximum capacity threshold.

 

[rteetz]

I can see using existing rooms for DVC if the resort isn't doing so well but I don't get building towers or view-blocking rooms over the water. These add-ons not only play havoc with theming but they have the potential to increase crowds. I would bet that Disney hopes to fill all rooms and I'm looking at it from the viewpoint that they figure out a way to succeed.

The comment was made that the parks aren't really all that busy. I doubt that such things as tiering would have been implemented if at the very least ride capacity wasn't an issue.

I don't have an answer for towers but the over the water bungalows kind of do fit the theme. Disney will be calling this section Bora Bora. Most of us know Bora Bora has these type of over water rooms. The polynesian is a mix of all types of polynesia and Bora Bora fits that. Im not saying it doesn't block views or should be there to begin with I am saying is the theming is still there.

Tiering was put in place for the two parks that have very few attractions worth riding. When you go to Epcot what are your two big ones you want to ride? Soarin and Test Track. When you go to DHS what are the big ones you want to ride? TSMM, TOT, and RnR. Both parks have more attractions but they are mostly high capacity attractions or attractions that really not many people want to ride. The Backlot tour is just sort of depressing these days. I love figment but that ride needs something and never has more than a 10 minute wait. Epcot has been quite dead this summer. DHS has had bigger crowds mainly because of Frozen summer fun. MK always has crowds because its MK. AK on my visit in july was moderately crowded.

 

[mom2rtk]

Individual attraction capacity has always been an issue. Even in Walt's day, not every guest entering Disneyland could ride Autopia, Matterhorn, Peter Pan and most other attractions. The attractions with the highest capacity--like POTC and Haunted Mansion--didn't even debut until after Walt's passing.

But the parks themselves have sufficient infrastructure to hold many more people than they currently do. Park closures due to high attendance are rare--just a few days per year around Christmas and Easter--and even then it's usually just Magic Kingdom and occasionally Epcot.

On an average operating day, none of the parks come close to any maximum capacity threshold.

And I'm afraid that's exactly the way Disney views it. "You're not getting any new rides until you fully utilize the ones you have".

It might be legal to operate near or at capacity every day. But it will never reach that. Too many people would stop going because it would be such an unpleasant experience.

 

[rteetz]

They sure seem to. Some would say recently they've spent too much money on theming and not enough on substance (new Fantasyland, Animal Kingdom park.)



Ugh. Yeah, because the people paying $800 per night for Poly rooms and $30 for cheap "2014" t-shirts and $60 per day for a pre-paid dining plan are completely blameless.

Disney has over 25,000 hotel rooms vs. about 3500 villas. While Disney obviously values the returns it gets from DVC point sales, it's a little misguided to hold DVC accountable for all that ails Walt Disney World.

Well I was just saying that as long as DVC keeps selling like it is they are going to keep building it. Yes of course there are other things that factor in and I really don't know why you would pay 800 per night for a room at the poly especially the way it looks right now I wouldn't unless I was a billionaire looking for places to burn money.

The whole point of this thread which I started was to bring a notice that DVC is going to keep going. On wdwmagic.com a very popular poster called the spirit is the one who pointed out these changes. He has been right numerous times when it comes to disney and even universal.

Disney can't fill their hotels to capacity right now, especially deluxe.

The Poly is in the midst of adding DVC which includes converting existing rooms to DVC. Lots of sources say Wilderness Lodge is next with just converting more rooms to DVC. Multiple sources have also said Beach Club, Contemporary and even moderates are on their list.

Disney is likely going to be adding frozen to maelstrom in the coming months. That would be Epcots only new things since the TT redo.

AK is getting Pandora in 2017 if everything is on schedule...

MK finally finished NFL in May, nothing else besides Hub expansion on their table...

DHS... rumors continue to fly as they have for years now that something will happen. The spirit says we won't see a star wars expansion until around 2020 (thats completion). Jim Hill says construction will begin in January, but that was said last january as well. So who knows what will happen at DHS

DTD wait Disney Springs is under a massive construction craze right now that is also seeing delays parking garage was supposed to open early fall now its slated for early 2015 sometime. The food truck park was supposed to open in the summer now slated for maybe october. The landing which is the area that was Pleasure Island is supposed to open in early 2015 as well.

Disneyland is less than a year away from its big 60th celebration which is supposed to bring some new things for both parks.

Hong kong is supposedly getting ready for a rumored expansion and a new night parade.

Paris is Paris that place still isn't performing to what disney originally wanted it too.

Tokyo is doing great of course because the Oriental company puts so much money into those parks to keep them updated and clean WDW used to be that way too.

Finally Shanghai Igers last hurrah if its done by the time he leaves massive delays are happening and an original late 2015 opening is looking more and more likely to be a spring to summer 2016 opening.

I've also heard rumors of two more cruise ships coming along...

 

[tjkraz]

The whole point of this thread which I started was to bring a notice that DVC is going to keep going.

Of course they are going to continue selling DVC points...for as long as the market exists. I'm well aware of everything you outlined in this last post. The line I was specifically commenting on was this:

"If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally."

Disney doesn't have a single focus. Just because they are building a timeshare resort at the Poly or Wilderness Lodge doesn't mean that managerial attention or funds are being diverted from elsewhere.

A comment like this is akin to saying "gee, I wish people would quit buying Dole Whips so Disney could focus on something else." Despite the existence--and popularity--of Dole Whips, Disney still finds time to focus on turkey legs, cheeseburgers, candy apples, cornets and literally hundreds of other snacks.

Is DVC profitable for Disney? Yes, absolutely.

Is repeat business generated by DVC responsible for some stagnation in the parks? Perhaps, but the degree is debatable. DVC villas represent less than 15% of all Disney-owned lodging on site. They still have a heck of a lot of rooms to fill aside from DVC...and many more off-site day guests to attract.

Bottom line is you can't tell people to "stop buying DVC" any more than you can tell others to stop buying overpriced Poly & Contemporary hotel rooms, t-shirts, turkey legs, dining plans, Villain party tickets, etc.

 

[rteetz]

Of course they are going to continue selling DVC points...for as long as the market exists. I'm well aware of everything you outlined in this last post. The line I was specifically commenting on was this:

"If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally."

Disney doesn't have a single focus. Just because they are building a timeshare resort at the Poly or Wilderness Lodge doesn't mean that managerial attention or funds are being diverted from elsewhere.

A comment like this is akin to saying "gee, I wish people would quit buying Dole Whips so Disney could focus on something else." Despite the existence--and popularity--of Dole Whips, Disney still finds time to focus on turkey legs, cheeseburgers, candy apples, cornets and literally hundreds of other snacks.

Is DVC profitable for Disney? Yes, absolutely.

Is repeat business generated by DVC responsible for some stagnation in the parks? Perhaps, but the degree is debatable. DVC villas represent less than 15% of all Disney-owned lodging on site. They still have a heck of a lot of rooms to fill aside from DVC...and many more off-site day guests to attract.

Bottom line is you can't tell people to "stop buying DVC" any more than you can tell others to stop buying overpriced Poly & Contemporary hotel rooms, t-shirts, turkey legs, dining plans, Villain party tickets, etc.

I know Disney doesn't have a single focus. What I was trying to point out was DVC is a large part of that focus. If DVC wasn't maybe DHS and/or Epcot would get some help. DVC is great but does it really need to make another round through the deluxe resorts.

Another thing is every hotel room in Disney is over priced Disney values aren't worth what they are priced at. I wouldn't stay in a disney room without a discount. I myself have never even stayed at a deluxe only value and moderates. Deluxe prices are just crazy. I think merchandise is different people will always buy merchandise thats a given they do that at every theme park around the world. The villain party had a lot of people upset so we will see how that goes in the future. And they just added another premium add on for the halloween party. Disney will always have premium events and merchandise. I am mainly talking about that they should invest more into the parks than resorts.