Josh is the voice of reason on FP+

[skater]

One might say that, but one would be incorrect.

 

[FireDancer]

I don't know, back in the day one might say using FPs outside of their return window (and not just by 10-15 minutes) would be cheating/abusing the system, but that was one of the most pushed strategies for using maximum FPs in any given day

Yes, exactly. Just because the front line CMs weren't enforcing the return times doesn't mean the system wasn't designed to enforce it. I think it was designed to have a specific window and then expire, not live on in perpetuity for the rest of the day or into future dates. They did finally inform the front line guys to enforce it but it was still a little hit or miss.

This new system allows them to automate that enforcement and take away that loophole/misuse/gaming/whatever you call it.

 

[MikeSF]

- Most WDW vacationers will not be booking their FP+s 60 days out. .

Might wonder why that is even an option then.

Sure today you can get most FP+s the day you're there and usually swap them around as necessary without much issue, but you could also do that with ADRs when they first were introduced as well, my last DW trip there was exactly 1 time I could get a reservation for Ohana in a 7 day window, and this 2 months out... and this was in January in the off-season times (i.e. not during MLK weekend). Granted restaurant capacities differ from ride capacities greatly and it was one of the most popular restaurants, but it still was during one of the slowest times of the year, even if it was during a time when ADRs were "abused" since you didn't have to give them a CC# at the time.

So yeah, maybe the average disney guest won't book FP+s 60 days out, but as the system becomes more recognized, how many days out will you have to book for say Soarin? As it stands getting one for the Electric Parade/Wishes the day of is not very likely.

I'm not knocking the FP+ system, I just think having reservation planning windows that border on the insane might end up being not so good. I'd really like to see that planning window shrink to at most 1 day (not that is likely). ADRs made it so you had to plan to eat, and first come first serve no longer applied. FPs was so that first come first serve did apply, FP+ is closer to ADRs in that way. Today they work almost identical and yeah they are extremely useful since you can pick a time rather than hope to hit a particular time at a FP machine, but what about a month from now? a year? Will I only be able to get FP+ for high capacity rides that really don't need FP+s the morning of and not for rides that absolutely need it if you're not there at rope drop like Toy Story, Soarin, Space Mountain, etc? Time will tell.

 

[mafibisha]

1a- Yes. If you are staying at a WDW resort, you can make FP+ selections (3 per day, one park only)
as early as 60 days before your check-in date.
If you are NOT staying at a WDW resort, you can make FP+ selections (3 per day, one park only)
after you enter the park on the day-of.

1b- Sign up on MyDisneyExperince on the www.disneyworld.com website.

2a- If you are staying at a WDW resort, you will get a MB for every guest registered.
2b- That will work.

3- HERE and HERE ya go.

THANK YOU!!

 

[MikeSF]

One might say that, but one would be incorrect.

That must be why they actually changed their policy to enforce those times... because they didn't feel it the system was being "abused". Also explains the outrage that occurred when the internal policy matched the external policy (i.e. what the ticket said)

Don't get me wrong, I gamed the system too. And if I found the secret handshake you could do to bypass lines, I would use it as well.

 

[skilesare]

This is exactly what I meant by pushing the extremes into the fat middle and I think it is exactly what Disney is doing. They don't want anyone to have access to many more attractions then the average, middle of the road, does very little to no research guest.

The old system also gives them much less control and allowed guests to use it in ways that Disney didn't intend. Making the system less prone to the whims of the front line CMs and more centrally controllable they can more effectively enforce the rules they want to enforce.

I quite disagree. The old system only served 'those in the know.' This new system is going to allow many more different types of touring. In the past the ONLY way to do it was Rope Drop -> Run to get FP -> Hit headliners. You HAD to be at the park to get those FPs. Now, you don't. You can sleep in and still make sure you get to do the most important things.

We are already seeing evidence of shorter wait times due to people distributing themselves more efficiently.

Think about it this way: The Midway Mania rush is a thing of the past. The Know Alls still will get there at RD for a couple extra rides, but the know nothings are now going to get to ride on the their FP+ where in the past they would have just been disheartened by the line when they showed up at 11am.

Before: Late Arrivals could not ride Midway Mania without a 60+ minute wait.
Now: Late Arrivals can. Late Arrival is a potential optimum strategy.

It isn't a push to the middle, it is a diversification and specialization.

 

[magicbob]

That must be why they actually changed their policy to enforce those times... because they didn't feel it the system was being "abused". Also explains the outrage that occurred when the internal policy matched the external policy (i.e. what the ticket said)

Don't get me wrong, I gamed the system too. And if I found the secret handshake you could do to bypass lines, I would use it as well.

Dig up the 1,000s of threads from 3-5 years ago for an encyclopedia worth of explanation on how Disney CMs instructed guests to use them late and the reasons they began enforcing the time window (prepping for FP+ implementation).

 

[nugov2]

Everyone's money is the same!! WE ALL SPEND GOOD MONEY!!! My trips are never free, but I also don't think I am going to WDW for very cheap either. If you're that concerned about money and how much "value" you are getting out of your vacation. WDW is the last place you should go.

Love this!

Do you feel this way when you go to the theater?? Grocery shopping? Buying anything in the last few years?? Prices have gone up everywhere, not just at WDW and in may ways the experience is "less than" what it once was.

Based on your later posts, I would say you were not accurate in that statement....

Why is it that people here just have to jump on every positive thread and insist on telling people why they are wrong. Everyone travels differently, and what works for one family, wont work for another, that doesn't make them wrong.

I never said that we all didn't spend good money so I am confused why you would quote me. Why would I think anyone's trip was free?? Never once said I was concerned about money or spending lots of it on vacation, but I like to feel satisfied when I'm done. I spent double what I spent in WDW in Kauai and did less, but still felt satisfied because we did everything we wanted. We all have expectations and if they aren't met you feel cheated as per my example of the beaches being closed in Hawaii. I did everything on our last WDW and was satisfied. I am just not confident that will happen again without us paying for a VIP tour. I am fine spending it, but since that wasn't always the case I won't frequent WDW as much. My point of view never said it was the only one.

I also disagree that you shouldn't go to WDW if you are looking for value. Value doesn't equal cheap and I've always felt I got value out of our trips. I feel bad that you don't.

 

[fairyprincess88]

I quite disagree. The old system only served 'those in the know.' This new system is going to allow many more different types of touring. In the past the ONLY way to do it was Rope Drop -> Run to get FP -> Hit headliners. You HAD to be at the park to get those FPs. Now, you don't. You can sleep in and still make sure you get to do the most important things.

We are already seeing evidence of shorter wait times due to people distributing themselves more efficiently.

Think about it this way: The Midway Mania rush is a thing of the past. The Know Alls still will get there at RD for a couple extra rides, but the know nothings are now going to get to ride on the their FP+ where in the past they would have just been disheartened by the line when they showed up at 11am.

Before: Late Arrivals could not ride Midway Mania without a 60+ minute wait.
Now: Late Arrivals can. Late Arrival is a potential optimum strategy.

It isn't a push to the middle, it is a diversification and specialization.

But if you want to also ride RnR without a long wait then you still have to be there at rope drop since both rides are in the same FP+ tier so you can only choose one. So you still need to show up at open if you want to ride both headliners without a long standby wait for whichever one you don't choose FP+ for. The same goes for Epcot where if you want to ride both Soarin and Test Track without a long standby wait, then rope drop is still necessary.

 

[Silock]

WDW is soooo much more than just rides!! It seems that the people who are only concerned with the number of rides they can get in a day would be better served going to Universal and staying in one of their hotels to get the "front of the line" pass. Then they can ride all they want. I think that would also benefit the other people who are fine with standing in line for a Disney ride to not have to listen to someone next to them complain the whole time in line because they cant get paper FP anymore.

It is about more than just rides, but some people prefer Disney's rides. It's incredibly presumptuous to assume that they (we) enjoy Universal equally.

 

[FireDancer]

I quite disagree. The old system only served 'those in the know.' This new system is going to allow many more different types of touring. In the past the ONLY way to do it was Rope Drop -> Run to get FP -> Hit headliners. You HAD to be at the park to get those FPs. Now, you don't. You can sleep in and still make sure you get to do the most important things.

We are already seeing evidence of shorter wait times due to people distributing themselves more efficiently.

Think about it this way: The Midway Mania rush is a thing of the past. The Know Alls still will get there at RD for a couple extra rides, but the know nothings are now going to get to ride on the their FP+ where in the past they would have just been disheartened by the line when they showed up at 11am.

Before: Late Arrivals could not ride Midway Mania without a 60+ minute wait.
Now: Late Arrivals can. Late Arrival is a potential optimum strategy.

It isn't a push to the middle, it is a diversification and specialization.

I agree with you and am not against FP+. When I said push people to the middle I meant number of attractions in a day. Under the old system there were some guests each day in a given park that saw or rode a very high number of attractions because they knew how to maximize the legacy FP system. There were also some guests who saw or rode few attractions because they were unaware of how to maximize legacy FP. This gulf was even wider when were are talking about headliners.

Disney wants to move both of those extremes in to the "fat middle" when it comes to the number of attractions they do. They want less guests doing a high or low number of attractions and want more doing the average amount. Hence "the average guests pulled 2.5 to 3 legacy fast passes" and FP+ allows for 3 as it now stands. I don't think that is a coincidence. They want more guests to behave like the average guest when it comes to touring. Not the two extremes.

That must be why they actually changed their policy to enforce those times... because they didn't feel it the system was being "abused". Also explains the outrage that occurred when the internal policy matched the external policy (i.e. what the ticket said)

I never got the outrage. They were finally enforcing what should have been enforced all along. It really was a shame that CMs would allow guests to use legacy FP in a way that was contrary to the printed policy. I was very glad when they started enforcing the times.

 

[john398]

That must be why they actually changed their policy to enforce those times... because they didn't feel it the system was being "abused". Also explains the outrage that occurred when the internal policy matched the external policy (i.e. what the ticket said)

Don't get me wrong, I gamed the system too. And if I found the secret handshake you could do to bypass lines, I would use it as well.

DO GM employees still have that lounge they can get on test track with? oh maybe that's off topic

 

[Mkrop]

I don't recall many times that you could get a FP to get you right back on if there were long lines.

Long lines are not uncommon at WDW.

I never said get right back on..but it certainly was easier to explain pulling a FP and saying we will ride after lunch or whenever. We were able to do this with TT, BTMMR, Splash, and Everest.

WDW is soooo much more than just rides!! It seems that the people who are only concerned with the number of rides they can get in a day would be better served going to Universal and staying in one of their hotels to get the "front of the line" pass. Then they can ride all they want. I think that would also benefit the other people who are fine with standing in line for a Disney ride to not have to listen to someone next to them complain the whole time in line because they cant get paper FP anymore.

I love lots of things about WDW but we go for the RIDES!!!! And we went to Universal and guess what those rides made DH really sick, he can handle thrill rides but NOT motion simulators. He does not handle Star Tours well. So really please stop telling people to go elsewhere as that is not always an option and we love WDW, we want to keep going back but that doesnt mean we have to like every single thing they do, and if we dont like something we should be able to tell them, say it here and tell anyone else what it is we dont like. I mean I have been telling everyone how great WDW is, if there is someting I dont like, I can tell that too. I love Target but I dont like what is going on there either and I am allowed to be vocal about that.

Despite how popular Josh is, there are always people on the Dis who've never been to his site and have never heard of him.

The OP was being thoughtful, in providing a link to something that might actually be helpful in planning theme park strategies.




What did you do when you and your scaredy cat kiddo walked up to the FP- machine and discovered the passes were all distributed for the day? Or the return times were right smack in the middle of your dinner ADR? Or you were already holding a different FP-? Or the return times were out to 11pm and you knew your scaredy cat kiddo would never stay up that late?



In the past, children were disappointed at Disney with much the same regularity as they are now.

Of course, assuming this isn't the last day of your trip, you can always make a FP+ for the next time you're in this park. Or you could make an effort to get there at Ropedrop. Or - for a same-day solution! - you can skip the parade/fireworks and return to ride while everyone else is distracted.

We have never walked up to any of the rides mentioned above and not had FP- available, if they interfered with an ADR, we went back after the return time when that was allowed nor had any been that far out that they were too late. He was always happy with the idea that we could come back later but got to ride again. We always do ropedrop but still wouldnt know that the ride would be a hit until we got over to that area of the park. And we go in Dec, we go for the Christmas parades and a lot of time we are doing other evening entertainment like parties, Osbourne lights or CPs that riding during parades and fireworks is not an option.

I quite disagree. The old system only served 'those in the know.' This new system is going to allow many more different types of touring. In the past the ONLY way to do it was Rope Drop -> Run to get FP -> Hit headliners. You HAD to be at the park to get those FPs. Now, you don't. You can sleep in and still make sure you get to do the most important things.

We are already seeing evidence of shorter wait times due to people distributing themselves more efficiently.

Think about it this way: The Midway Mania rush is a thing of the past. The Know Alls still will get there at RD for a couple extra rides, but the know nothings are now going to get to ride on the their FP+ where in the past they would have just been disheartened by the line when they showed up at 11am.

Before: Late Arrivals could not ride Midway Mania without a 60+ minute wait.
Now: Late Arrivals can. Late Arrival is a potential optimum strategy.

It isn't a push to the middle, it is a diversification and specialization.

It still favors those in the know, it is still a first come first serve. You may not need a FP runner but you need to be able to be at your computer at 60 days out, you need to have a computer, you need to have a trip booked by 60 days, and then the offsite guests get the leftovers. The advantage is being given to different people than before but there are still people at a disadvantage

 

[TDC Nala]

I don't do rope drop, this won't make me start. now, I get to ride Toy Story Mania whether I do rope drop or not. It's all good...

 

[Viva Las Disney]

According to the Josh's article we're discussing...

It still favors those in the know, it is still a first come first serve. You may not need a FP runner but you need to be able to be at your computer at 60 days out

False - According to the article everything was available that morning.

you need to have a computer

False - CM's are available to make the FP+ reservations for you.

you need to have a trip booked by 60 days, then the offsite guests get the leftovers. The advantage is being given to different people than before but there are still people at a disadvantage

False - I'm not trying to be rude but I'm guessing you didn't read the article because the entire article was about how you could get a FP+ for every ride on the morning of a holiday weekend in MK.

 

[Laz]

DO GM employees still have that lounge they can get on test track with? oh maybe that's off topic

The last search I did on the Dis forum said the lounge was not completed yet (May 2013 post I think). GM FOTL access was still available. I think you are on the same page I am. FP+ Soarin and use GM access to test track.

 

[Eeyore's My Favorite]

I guess tats why some theme parks wanted to use biometrics for people entering the park, Are there photos on AP still? or is it they just use their magicbands?

Never had a picture on any AP I've had. Mine is linked to MDE & MB. We went yesterday & everything worked great. Understand the weekend was busy but it was a 3 day holiday weekend.

 

[Robo]

Never had a picture on any AP I've had.

Disneyland used photos on AP's.

Now, DLR uses a system where AP holders just have a photo on FILE that is referenced
via computer screen by the gate CM when they use their AP at the gate.

 

[Sammie]

My 2 cents:

- The Disboards population is not representative of the average WDW vacationer. Most WDW vacationers were not getting more than 3 FP-s or riding the same ride more than once very often, if at all. In fact, not all Disboarders vacation that way either. I am a savvy WDW traveler, but with 3 small kids, a stroller, one child who is NOT a morning person, I never could do RD and run across the park collecting FP-. I prioritized etc., but that's it. For me, even as a savvy traveler, the only hard part about FP+ is the Epcot and DHS tiering. Otherwise FP+ will be an improvement because I can plan ahead and not have to run around the parks to make sure I can do the rides that are important to me.
- Most WDW vacationers will not be booking their FP+s 60 days out. So as Disboarders, if you stay onsite, you have an advantage.
- Even if you stay offsite you will still have an advantage. Unlike the average vacationer, you will still get to the parks early, know how to work the FP+ kiosks, know how to change times (not stick with the ones WDW gives you), and know which attractions warrant FP+ and what times you should use them.
- Waiting in a few lines won't kill you. And, I suspect lines will go down because more people can ride the headliners with FP+ rather than standing in line. Under the old system, the same people hogged up a lot of FPs which made lines longer for everyone else.
- WDW absolutely should care about the experience of the average vacationer. They want people to remember what a great time they had at WDW and not about how all they did was wait in line. Better experiences = more repeat visitors overall.

Of course this is what happened. They listened to the masses.

 

[wisblue]

I think it's unfortunate that this thread degenerated into the umpteenth debate over the pros and cons of FP+. Like it or not, paper FP will be gone from all of the parks by the end of this week, and the chances of it ever coming back are next to zero.

The real value of Josh's report is as a detailed example, with pictures, of how someone can use the system as it currently exists to enjoy a lot of attractions at the Magic Kingdom on what he says (and I have no reason to doubt him) is one of the top 25 busiest days of the year at MK.

If nothing else, this should provide some reassurance to people with upcoming trips who have become concerned that FP+ means that you can only do 3 rides without waiting in long lines. That may be true if you stroll into the park at noon on one of the busiest days of the year, but paper FP wouldn't have saved you there either.

Because this report covers the first busy weekend day at MK with no paper FP, a lot of the things reported here could, and probably will, change as time goes on. Whether those changes will be for the better or for the worse are pure speculation.But, I think this is by far the most thorough and objective picture of what is actually going on that we are likely to see.

For those of us who are accustomed to visiting at busy holiday times, there's nothing unusual here. Starting with the essentially walk on touring with no need for FP for a couple of hours in the morning, followed by crazy crowds and long wait times in the middle of the afternoon. This report is a perfect visual demonstration of why we almost always take a break from the parks in the middle of the afternoon.