So...I want to hear the downside to this

[disneynutz]

And with the Disney Deluxe units they need to provide $400 a night (or whatever they are now) value. People aren't going to be thrilled about $400 a night when you have a slight tear in the curtains, burnt out lightbulbs, a drawer with its rails broken, and a stained carpet. But those are fairly normal DVC room conditions. (I'm 100% on having at least 1 broken drawer/cupboard in every room I've stayed in! Either missing knobs or broken rails, kittywumpus hinges or just off the rails in such a way it won't go back. I'm 50% on the curtains, and somewhere between that on burnt out bulbs. We've never seen the stains or mold others have complained of - and our rooms have always been clean) HOWEVER, you are getting the location for significantly less than the Deluxe hotel room rate.

And they could improve the condition of the DVC rooms, but they choose not to for reasons that only Disney knows.

Bill

 

[disneynutz]

I've stayed at Great Wolf Lodge and had ripped/ torn chairs. Not functional air conditioner. So to say hotels include "upkeep" in costs isn't accurate at all.

Worn/tired rooms..

They may include the upkeep costs but the company management chooses to use the money somewhere else. Hotel guests can voice their displeasure with the resort or room buy not coming back. If sales suffer, management will make change.

DVC is a different business model, owners have to use their points each year of forfeit them, not much incentive to do a better job. In fact if we don't like any aspect of the DVC there isn't anything that we can do about it except vent here on the DIS.

Bill

 

[Dean]

Thanks, Dean! Lots of great points you make here. A little more about our situation: We always stay at the Contemporary, and don't have any desire to stay off-monorail due to the convenience and location with our little ones. We love the idea of being able to go to Disney World every year, or, skip a year, bank points and rent a two bedroom villa so we can invite other family members.

Financially, we have been fortunate. We pay for most large purchases (such as vehicles) with cash, pay our credit card in full each month, and our only debt is a house mortgage which is about one third paid for. We would pay for the DVC in cash.

You mention the housekeeping and wear and tear of the rooms. Is this significantly subpar to what we would expect at a deluxe resort stay?

Again, thanks so much! This is very helpful.

It sounds like you'd meet most of our criteria (& all you addressed) for being reasonable to buy as long as you are comfortable with the modest compromises and plan in advance. BLT resale will be a good choice, a more expensive choice but one worth considering is to either buy a fixed week at VGF or wait for the same at the Poly. It really depends on what you'd prefer if looking on the high end anyway.

Given what you have said about yourself I would give you a bold alternative. No one mentioned the relative ease of renting your points. Davids will pay you $11 a point and rent fast. If bought BLT. for your trips and SSR. for renting you could pay for your membership fees for both with renting SSR. SSR is cheap on resale relative to BLT. Being able to rent points is a major game changer in favor of DVC.

For special situations or short term points usage this may be reasonable but it is certainly not reasonable to buy extra points with the idea of renting them long term, esp at BLT, IMO. The exceptions would center around when you will or may need more later such as those looking at buying small up front.

I want to add what I perceive to be another cost to the list here...

The cost of wanting more...

We just received our membership # on our first 75 points resale contract at VWL and I'm already trying to figure out when we're going to want to buy another 50-100 somewhere else. Driving me crazy.

My take is this is a function of not investigating enough or understanding well enough what one's needs are. As a rule one should be pretty sure when buying a very small contract because the costs are higher per point and if you do have to add later the costs are escalated. I do believe that many who are looking small as an initial purchase should overshoot even if they have to downgrade their resort to do so.

Early December is the most popular time for DVC members. So many of the resorts get booked up before seven months out. If you close within the next three months, you might still be able to find something available at BLT.


With 95% or greater occupancy, DVC villas can get worn out quickly. And the total refurbishment schedule can be 15 years or greater. Member dues pay for all refurbishments, both soft goods and hard goods. So you might not get the same in the villas as you see in the hotels because hotel guests pay for the renovations just by paying more for their reservation. Disney needs to refurbish? They raise the rates. Can't do that with DVC.

The industry standard is 5-7 years for soft goods and 10-14 for a major overhaul. Top resorts like Marriott and Hilton are normally on the shorter end, mid levels tend to be in the higher range of those times. The most aggressive I've heard about was a major redo every 4 years but at that resort they don't collect reserves and just have the owners pay the full amount at the time around every 4 years.

I've stayed at Great Wolf Lodge and had ripped/ torn chairs. Not functional air conditioner. So to say hotels include "upkeep" in costs isn't accurate at all.

Worn/tired rooms..

Things can happen for a given room or a given resort but in general for Disney there clearly is a difference in upkeep between the dlx resorts and DVC resorts.

 

[crisi]

They may include the upkeep costs but the company management chooses to use the money somewhere else. Hotel guests can voice their displeasure with the resort or room buy not coming back. If sales suffer, management will make change.

DVC is a different business model, owners have to use their points each year of forfeit them, not much incentive to do a better job. In fact if we don't like any aspect of the DVC there isn't anything that we can do about it except vent here on the DIS.

Bill

And Disney hotels are really dependent on repeat business and word of mouth to charge their rates to stay on site.

 

[JimMIA]

We have found three downsides to DVC:

• Over time, growing families' vacation interests change. When DD was 4-5, she was thrilled to see Mickey in the parade and go to the Princess character meals at Norway. Now, at almost 12, not so much. In fact, when we had a day break in a skating competition in Orlando last April, she declined going to Disney. She preferred to remain across town and just hang out. We still enjoy Disney World, but it's no longer our ONLY vacation. In fact, it's not even every year these days.
  
  
• DVC is a VERY limited timeshare system. DVC is great for Walt Disney World, no question about that. However, there are only 12 DVC resorts, 8 of which are at WDW. The other four resorts, while beautiful, are not in destinations we want to visit. Or if they are, there are other, better options there.
  
  Yes, you can exchange via RCI, but only to about 600 of the +/-3,500 RCI resorts, and there are much better options for exchanging.
  
  If one is willing to give up onsite at WDW, there are numerous timeshare systems that offer far more than DVC...many of them for next to nothing on the resale market and with lower per-night MF costs than DVC.
  
  
• WDW vacations are VERY expensive, and honestly not as good a value as they used to be. Not only is DVC a very expensive timeshare to buy, but the dues are also high compared to the lodging you recieve. And to compound the problem, park tickets and the abundance of hard-ticket events have greatly increased the cost of vacationing at WDW.

 

[nkereina]

We are still in the consideration stages ourselves. We would only look at resale due to the cost, but one concerning thing to me is that Disney reserves the right to change their terms at any time. To my knowledge, it was only recently (within the last 1-2 years?) that Disney placed limitations so that resale contracts could not book DCL, ABD and non-DVC resorts. It makes me nervous to think about what else Disney might restrict for resale owners, especially if direct sales start to decline.

And I also agree with PP in that you are very limited with DVC. We love Disney as much as the next person on here, but when you check out other time shares like Marriott and Hilton who are comparable in price, you start to realize how many more destinations they offer and it makes the decision that much more difficult.

 

[Dean]

We are still in the consideration stages ourselves. We would only look at resale due to the cost, but one concerning thing to me is that Disney reserves the right to change their terms at any time. To my knowledge, it was only recently (within the last 1-2 years?) that Disney placed limitations so that resale contracts could not book DCL, ABD and non-DVC resorts. It makes me nervous to think about what else Disney might restrict for resale owners, especially if direct sales start to decline.

And I also agree with PP in that you are very limited with DVC. We love Disney as much as the next person on here, but when you check out other time shares like Marriott and Hilton who are comparable in price, you start to realize how many more destinations they offer and it makes the decision that much more difficult.

There are many things that they can change but the core option of reserving your home resort and maybe a different DVC resort can only be changed if it's changed for everyone. That is unless they institute a VIP system which would affect everyone.

 

[JimMIA]

We are still in the consideration stages ourselves. We would only look at resale due to the cost, but one concerning thing to me is that Disney reserves the right to change their terms at any time.

That is correct, for the most part. Basically, all you are guaranteed is the right to reserve lodging at your home resort...subject to availability, of course. OTOH, that's all DIRECT purchasers are guaranteed as well. It's important to understand that those things direct purchasers currently have access to can be taken away with one swipe of the Mouse's pen...just like they were from resale buyers.

The ability to change just about anything is typical of most timeshare systems -- DVC is no outlier in that respect.

Also, I find the excitement about resale restrictions pretty amusing in light of the changes they have made to everyone's DVC. The restrictions/changes on transfers, banking, and points allocations have been much more important (IMHO) than eliminating a bunch of junk nobody would have really used anyway!

To my knowledge, it was only recently (within the last 1-2 years?) that Disney placed limitations so that resale contracts could not book DCL, ABD and non-DVC resorts.

That's correct, although some of us think they did resale buyers a favor by imposing those restrictions. Two reasons: 1) those options are so expensive point-wise that they are awful uses of points anyway, but more importantly 2) the restrictions force purchasers to think about what is really important about timeshare ownership -- using it within the internal system of that program.

It makes me nervous to think about what else Disney might restrict for resale owners, especially if direct sales start to decline.

There are things they could do, but I think we overestimate the importance of resale with regards to DVC's direct sales. From a prospective purchaser's perspective, resale is very important because significant savings are possible via that route. For the developer, however, resale is pretty much of a non-issue, IMHO.

The vast majority of DVC direct purchasers have no idea a resale market exists. They are at WDW on vacation, get swept up in the pixie dust, and take a tour. And they buy. It's an impulse purchase of a good product which works out fine for many families. Maybe not the smartest financial decision they've ever made, but it works out okay.

I don't think the DVC timeshare sales personnel need to worry about resale. What they need is something to say to minimize the attractiveness of resale -- and the current restrictions (even though I think those options are worse than useless) give them enough to say to their uninformed target market.

 

[crisi]

That is correct, for the most part. Basically, all you are guaranteed is the right to reserve lodging at your home resort...subject to availability, of course. OTOH, that's all DIRECT purchasers are guaranteed as well. It's important to understand that those things direct purchasers currently have access to can be taken away with one swipe of the Mouse's pen

Repeating for emphasis. There are some other things you are guaranteed - Disney won't take out all the beds in the room and replace them with trapezes, for instance. But even direct purchasers could find many of what they think of as things that are basic to the program gone tomorrow.

 

[JimMIA]

There are some other things you are guaranteed - Disney won't take out all the beds in the room and replace them with trapezes, for instance.

Just to be technically correct -- there is actually NO guarantee that beds will not be replaced with trapezes. (And I don't think I want to venture any further into that concept!)

About the only other thing I know is guaranteed is the ability to reserve at non-home resorts as long as your home resort is a member of the "club." And if non-home booking is allowed, home resort owners are guaranteed at least a ONE month booking advantage (currently 4 months -- 11/7). That's really about it.

But even direct purchasers could find many of what they think of as things that are basic to the program gone tomorrow.

That's the key. VERY few things are actually guaranteed.

 

[nabi]

Just to be technically correct -- there is actually NO guarantee that beds will not be replaced with trapezes. (And I don't think I want to venture any further into that concept!)

And the stilts will come out too, only later to be determined this is not a circus act but DVC villa improvement...they're painting! Things aren't always as they appear. Things also change up for an "improved" system and Disney is notorious for attempting this. I'm glad they do.

 

[Dean]

Just to be technically correct -- there is actually NO guarantee that beds will not be replaced with trapezes. (And I don't think I want to venture any further into that concept!)

Actually there are some protections on substantially equivalent villa amenities from what I understand but like anything else, enforcement becomes the issue.

 

[bakerworld]

Very helpful David, thanks!

We hope to get the ball rolling tomorrow (looking at 180 pt resale at BLT, loaded with points), and go back to Disney early December. We love the theme park view from the Contemporary, but don't know if that will be an option in a studio by the time we are able to book. Even if it's not - still so exciting!!!

Nice way to start out - if you decide the "World of DVC" is not for you then 180 pts at Bay Lake should be a fair resale. The smaller contracts do 'fly' off the shelf. If your offer is taken at ROFR - even tho you can afford it - stay small .. JIC

 

[crisi]

Actually there are some protections on substantially equivalent villa amenities from what I understand but like anything else, enforcement becomes the issue.

That was what I was thinking - and that trapezes wouldn't be equivalent amenities when beds were sold - therefore, we'd get enforcement (not that they would do it) - but that if they replaced them with futons eight inches off the floor, most of us old people would be mad, but they might be able to claim equivalence, and we wouldn't get enforcement.

(Not that they'd do either, but I think they MIGHT get away with futon mattresses eight inches off the floor).

 

[Dean]

That was what I was thinking - and that trapezes wouldn't be equivalent amenities when beds were sold - therefore, we'd get enforcement (not that they would do it) - but that if they replaced them with futons eight inches off the floor, most of us old people would be mad, but they might be able to claim equivalence, and we wouldn't get enforcement.

(Not that they'd do either, but I think they MIGHT get away with futon mattresses eight inches off the floor).

Ultimately though all we really have is faith in Disney, thus even for "cheap" resales, that's a lot to pay for the risks we're taking both with Disney and in the rest of our lives. What if the parks were to close for example?

 

[disneynutz]

Ultimately though all we really have is faith in Disney, thus even for "cheap" resales, that's a lot to pay for the risks we're taking both with Disney and in the rest of our lives. What if the parks were to close for example?

Disney would sell if they got the right offer, as time goes on they are just like any other company focusing primarily on profit at the increasing expense of their guests. Their goal is apparently to pack in as many guests as they can, even if you can't walk down Main Street, have to stand in a queue for 60 minutes, wait on phone hold for 45, book dinner reservations 6 months out, and check in online 2 months out.

Disney still has a special place in our hearts, because of Walt Disney and the Disney of yesterday, not the Disney of today.

I feel better now.

Bill

 

[calypso726]

Addonitis can be a downside. We started off with 180 points which we felt would meet our needs. We soon realized we wanted to go more often so we added on a few times. We are currently at 1100 points

 

[Deb & Bill]

Addonitis can be a downside. We started off with 180 points which we felt would meet our needs. We soon realized we wanted to go more often so we added on a few times. We are currently at 1100 points

How much are your annual dues for 2014? That's your cure.

 

[calypso726]

How much are your annual dues for 2014? That's your cure.

Uhm, a lot Ulcers are a potential side effect of addonitis when the dues are due. I do believe that the "disease" has run its course

 

[figment795]

Addonitis can be a downside. We started off with 180 points which we felt would meet our needs. We soon realized we wanted to go more often so we added on a few times. We are currently at 1100 points

I would love to own 1000 points. Currently retail is just too much. We own 370 at SSR since 2004 paid in full. BLT 230 points need another 230 for flexibility