Where is Disney going with Magic Bands?

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't know about the last few years since I haven't been since 2010 but 2007 was more crowded than 2003 and 2010 more than 2007. I went during the same time period each time. So maybe some of the the people who would go during other times started deciding to go then, I don't know, but it was harder to navigate the parks and I still have scars from all the strollers that ran me over. So even if the #s don't support it I can tell you there was definitely a noticeable difference in how many people were in the parks.

2003 was one of their slowest periods in history... 2007 was housing bubble and one of the busiest... 2010 was a cross over between the crash and Disney's ramping up promotions to counteract the crash.

Just some context.

2011-2013 has been slow each time we've been there...about 7 or 8...in my opinion.

And I spend way more time analyzing the crowds and the menu prices and the tweaks to things that they do in plain sight if you are looking for them than I do running for a toy story fastpass or waiting in line to see a tired fantastic show that they've run 10,000 times (not exaggerating)
...just as a reference point to my observations.

 

[robpa]

2003 was one of their slowest periods in history... 2007 was housing bubble and one of the busiest... 2010 was a cross over between the crash and Disney's ramping up promotions to counteract the crash.

Just some context.

2011-2013 has been slow each time we've been there...about 7 or 8...in my opinion.

And I spend way more time analyzing the crowds and the menu prices and the tweaks to things that they do in plain sight if you are looking for them than I do running for a toy story fastpass or waiting in line to see a tired fantastic show that they've run 10,000 times (not exaggerating)
...just as a reference point to my observations.

Thanks for the Info, when we went it was more commando, trying to get my money's worth

So now we're resorting to name-calling. Charming.

I'll simply agree to disagree. There are many other ways in which Disney can benefit besides "marketing." I've already outlined many examples and won't bother to do it again.

If I were to summarize, the simplest way to describe their motivation is "they expect to use MagicBands to make more money." Period. No question.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean guests' experiences won't improve with the new tech in place. FP+ addresses the items I hated the most about the old FastPass system: having to run around grabbing tickets, uncertainty of return times, need to be at select attractions near park opening to even get a FP. It also introduces scheduled return times for things like Fantasmic & parade viewing and character meets...events which can easily necessitate 60+ minutes of wait time without FP.

I don't think there's anything apologist about pointing out that--no matter what I'm wearing on my wrist--Disney can't force me to buy unwanted Turkey Legs or t-shirts. I still have my own free will, thank you very much.

From 2008 to 2012, Magic Kingdom attendance is up a cumulative 3%, from 17 million to 17.5 million.

Epcot is up less than 2% from 10.9 mil to 11.1 mil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings

Crowd balancing has had some impact. Disney has gone to great lengths to bring more people into the parks during slower periods. However, based upon people I've spoken with and information I've read, they have also increased FastPass utilization on many attractions.

When they distribute more FPs, guests aren't spending as much time in the Standby lines. Instead they are crowding the walking paths and pushing strollers. THAT is a big reason why the parks often seem fuller.

Thanks for the info, that could be true, however I recall standby lines being on the longer side as well as park being crowded in 2010 so probably a product of more people going in perceived slow times.

 

[robpa]

pardon my double quote not good with message boards

 

[mickeyway]

When all the FP+ are gone and the standby lines are out of this world there are more people strolling through the park as well. However these are not happy people these are frustrated people, I know I was one of them. It did not cause me to want to buy things, It caused me to be cranky and want to leave. so that is what I did. Did not buy anything, and left feeling the "New" Disney experience stinks!

 

[robpa]

When all the FP+ are gone and the standby lines are out of this world there are more people strolling through the park as well. However these are not happy people these are frustrated people, I know I was one of them. It did not cause me to want to buy things, It caused me to be cranky and want to leave. so that is what I did. Did not buy anything, and left feeling the "New" Disney experience stinks!

Not sure how the testing has gone but it seems they should have tested per park for a longer amount of time, so not so many guests would be affected. I know the answer on here has been if you don't want to be part of the testing opt out, but its affecting everyone there whether you are part of the test or not.
Sorry you had a bad time, sounds like my situation the last time I went and I haven't gone back and have no plans to.

 

[DPCummerbund]

I don't know about the last few years since I haven't been since 2010 but 2007 was more crowded than 2003 and 2010 more than 2007. I went during the same time period each time. So maybe some of the the people who would go during other times started deciding to go then, I don't know, but it was harder to navigate the parks and I still have scars from all the strollers that ran me over. So even if the #s don't support it I can tell you there was definitely a noticeable difference in how many people were in the parks.

Well, that was sort of my point. There's ACTUAL attendance, and what it FEELS like. For example, if two different days have the same attendance, but one day the park has plenty of fastpasses but the other day they're gone, then the second day probably led you to feel that it's more crowded. If everyone happened to run over your toes with their strollers on one day, but the other day your toes were left unmolested, then the first day probably felt more crowded.

TEA publishes theme park attendance for every park every year. I don't know about 2003, their reports are not online back that far. However, you said that 2010 felt more crowded than 2007. Here's the MK attendance for those two years:
MK 2007: 17,060,000
MK 2010: 16,972,000

So, when you look at the actual attendance numbers, there were 88,000 FEWER people in MK in 2010 than in 2007.

It's very possible that they happened to be more crowded on the particular day you went there, or maybe tour groups have changed the crowd levels for that particular time of year, or whatever. But OVERALL attendance was DOWN. I know YOU didn't say this, but other people have said that they're not going to WDW any more because it's too crowded now, and that's just not the case.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the crowds are "evening out." Disney is probably running more specials (free dining, more special events) during off times. So, people who used to go during peak seasons are now going during off seasons to save money. I think we're seeing a lot more complaints now because October/November were probably less crowded in years past than they are now. As a consequence to that, it's very possible that summer crowds are correspondingly lower than they used to be.

In summary, I don't think the current frustrations with crowds are related to Fastpass. They're more related to October being busier than it used to be.

 

[DPCummerbund]

When all the FP+ are gone and the standby lines are out of this world there are more people strolling through the park as well. However these are not happy people these are frustrated people, I know I was one of them. It did not cause me to want to buy things, It caused me to be cranky and want to leave. so that is what I did. Did not buy anything, and left feeling the "New" Disney experience stinks!

Again, this CANNOT be the case. You may FEEL that the lines were longer, but overall they weren't - unless this particular October happened to be more busy than previous Octobers.

Look at it this way: imagine that Disney got rid of Fastpasses altogether. No FP-, no FP+. Everybody waits in standby all the time.

What would change for the WHOLE group of park-goers that day? NOTHING. If there are X amount of people in the park, and BTMRR can process Y amount of riders per day, then the number of times the average guest gets to ride BTMRR is X/Y. Nothing can change that - not even the Magic Bands.

So, it's very possible that the savvy DISers - who know the FP- system like the backs of their hands - have found their strategies somewhat thwarted by the new system. But if that's the case, then the "average" visitors who don't use FP- very often & wait in standby are HAPPIER, because their lines are SHORTER - because you're not hogging all the fastpasses and "cutting" in their lines!

Yes, you were unhappy with your Disney experience. But that doesn't mean that EVERYONE was. If you waited longer, than someone else waited LESS.

 

[mickeyway]

Again, this CANNOT be the case. You may FEEL that the lines were longer, but overall they weren't - unless this particular October happened to be more busy than previous Octobers.

Look at it this way: imagine that Disney got rid of Fastpasses altogether. No FP-, no FP+. Everybody waits in standby all the time.

What would change for the WHOLE group of park-goers that day? NOTHING. If there are X amount of people in the park, and BTMRR can process Y amount of riders per day, then the number of times the average guest gets to ride BTMRR is X/Y. Nothing can change that - not even the Magic Bands.

So, it's very possible that the savvy DISers - who know the FP- system like the backs of their hands - have found their strategies somewhat thwarted by the new system. But if that's the case, then the "average" visitors who don't use FP- very often & wait in standby are HAPPIER, because their lines are SHORTER - because you're not hogging all the fastpasses and "cutting" in their lines!

Yes, you were unhappy with your Disney experience. But that doesn't mean that EVERYONE was. If you waited longer, than someone else waited LESS.

I understand what you are saying however regardless my experience was less magical, less enjoyable than the past. Also while ACTUAL attendance may be less the lines were indeed longer. Maybe becuase more people choose to ride and not shop or eat. Maybe there are less attractions to space people out; rides broke down so fewer lines to wait in and more people per line that is up and running. The line for BTMRR was to the bridge by TSI. Fastpass was 30 minutes long, standby was 120minutes.
I am sure others did have shorter wait times. Maybe dumb luck or maybe they were better at naigating the lines using technology. I don't know but I left feeling . I am a die hard Disney but now I am planning my first trip to Florida that may not include Disney. I was heartbroken the last time I left. I felt I let my family down and ruined their vacation.

 

[robpa]

Well, that was sort of my point. There's ACTUAL attendance, and what it FEELS like. For example, if two different days have the same attendance, but one day the park has plenty of fastpasses but the other day they're gone, then the second day probably led you to feel that it's more crowded. If everyone happened to run over your toes with their strollers on one day, but the other day your toes were left unmolested, then the first day probably felt more crowded.

TEA publishes theme park attendance for every park every year. I don't know about 2003, their reports are not online back that far. However, you said that 2010 felt more crowded than 2007. Here's the MK attendance for those two years:
MK 2007: 17,060,000
MK 2010: 16,972,000

So, when you look at the actual attendance numbers, there were 88,000 FEWER people in MK in 2010 than in 2007.

It's very possible that they happened to be more crowded on the particular day you went there, or maybe tour groups have changed the crowd levels for that particular time of year, or whatever. But OVERALL attendance was DOWN. I know YOU didn't say this, but other people have said that they're not going to WDW any more because it's too crowded now, and that's just not the case.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the crowds are "evening out." Disney is probably running more specials (free dining, more special events) during off times. So, people who used to go during peak seasons are now going during off seasons to save money. I think we're seeing a lot more complaints now because October/November were probably less crowded in years past than they are now. As a consequence to that, it's very possible that summer crowds are correspondingly lower than they used to be.

In summary, I don't think the current frustrations with crowds are related to Fastpass. They're more related to October being busier than it used to be.

Yes my experience had nothing to do with fastpass availability we were able to pull fastpasses except for TSMM and that was a choice we made. We decided it made more sense to go on rockin roller coaster and tower of terror as opposed to standing in a line(long line for fastpass and we got there at rd) to get a pass to come back and stand in a line for 1 ride. I think we rode both a few times without much wait.
It was darn near impossible to just get around and to me that isn't very relaxing. Some may enjoy that but I'm not one of them. Plus when you go in off season park hours are shorter so leaving and coming back isn't really an option.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The reality is that the Disney parks are nowhere near "full" in the aggregate...

Magic kingdom, EPCOT and animal kingdom all have the same rough "capacity"...about 100,000.

So simple math
700,000 a week, 36,500,000 million per year.

Yes sports fans...that means they have never been more than "half full"

And if your instinct is to say "Disney doesn't REALLY want that many people there"...ha ha, try them.

So all this talk of crowded/too crowded/overcrowded is pointless...to be honest.

 

[robpa]

I agree, when parks are not at full capacity how crowded they are is perception. My crowded may not be your crowded. This would be based on our past experiences so everyone is going to perceive crowds differently.

 

[EvoldicA]

Disney is a company with investors that crave a return on investment. Disney doesn't have to do anything that I think is particularly evil to make Magic Bands pay off the large investment they've put into them. I actually utilized the ability to pay via MB and I can't remember EVER charging things to my room Disney or otherwise. That alone has increased sales.. do you think it's evil to make it easier to buy what you want?

I really feel as if there is no advertisement needed for the Magic Bands if they do it right everyone will want one. There was a general interest by guests who weren't part of the testing in what it was and how it worked.

I only had one minor issue and it was fixed quickly. The mobile app definitely needs some tweaking and was quirky but I think part of that was because they were trying to influence my fast pass choices to balance the crowds out a bit. If you've ever played SoTMK the portals do the same thing and most of the time there are no issues.

Why don't you test it and give constructive feedback if you aren't happy?

~B

 

[robpa]

Disney is a company with investors that crave a return on investment. Disney doesn't have to do anything that I think is particularly evil to make Magic Bands pay off the large investment they've put into them. I actually utilized the ability to pay via MB and I can't remember EVER charging things to my room Disney or otherwise. That alone has increased sales.. do you think it's evil to make it easier to buy what you want?

I really feel as if there is no advertisement needed for the Magic Bands if they do it right everyone will want one. There was a general interest by guests who weren't part of the testing in what it was and how it worked.

I only had one minor issue and it was fixed quickly. The mobile app definitely needs some tweaking and was quirky but I think part of that was because they were trying to influence my fast pass choices to balance the crowds out a bit. If you've ever played SoTMK the portals do the same thing and most of the time there are no issues.

Why don't you test it and give constructive feedback if you aren't happy?

~B

I don't believe Disney is planning anything evil with MB, unless trying to make it easier to part with your hard earned money is evil. I don' think that is because every company is trying to do that.
I guess I just don't see the greatness of it in its present form. I never charged anything to my room ever, don't buy a lot of souvenirs(overpriced merchandise made in China), and only eat CS, and they screwed up the fastpass situation for a lot of folks(not everyone mind you).
I do think its evil to force everyone to use a system they don't want to or see no benefit in using. I know this may change so I will monitor it. I also know someone will say then don't go and I won't until Disney stops putting the money grab ahead of customer satisfaction.

 

[ems_mom]

Where they might be going:

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201310/3730/

 

[DizFanSLD]

I am probably risking my life by posting in this group, as it is not known to be very welcoming of newbies, but I had to point out that there is a clear reason that I see for why Disney is not doing more to market the Magic Bands at this time. I think that in the overall perspective of what they envision for this tech, it would be tantamount to promoting road upgrades or a new state of the art water treatment facility. In other words, I think this is a purely infrastructural upgrade, and that the goal is to get visitors used to the new paradigm of wearable tickets. What info they have put out there is for the benefit of those of us who obsess over the latest changes at WDW, but for much of the world, they won't even be aware of this until they decide to take the kids for their first trip, by which time it will be in place and the kinks (mostly) worked out.

Maybe I am just another Disney apologist, but I suspect that they have some amazing things to implement once this tech is installed and everyone is used to it. Those who say that Disney is not offering enough incentive for frequent visitors to appreciate the new system are overlooking the fact that there is a huge complaint backlash by the "devoted fans" against almost everything they ever say and do about the parks. Just like the people who have a screaming fit over every change to facebook, or each new iOS upgrade, there is no way to do anything that will satisfy that segment of the fanbase, so I suspect that Disney doesn't even try.

As for me, I am looking forward to my next trip as always, and I suspect that not having to fumble in my purse for my ticket or credit card will be convenient, if not exactly life-changing, and like a previous poster, I am delighted not to have to make mad dashes across the park for a few key fastpasses - TSMM and Soarin' being the two main offenders. I also like that I can make sure that my FP return windows don't conflict with my dining reservations. And I am betting that in 5 years, when the tech is just "the way it is" and nobody is talking about it, we will be blown away by how RFID is being used to "plus" our attraction experiences.

I also remember that it took a few years before the legacy FP system was appreciated and fully utilized. I recall quite a bit of fan freakout back then as well...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's an excellent post...especially your take on "infrastructure" upgrades...

My differ is on the on the idea that they have things to offer and this is being done to "make things better"

Disney is not in that business anymore. Every move they make (or don't make) is about profit squeezing...things that break even or marginal yield...are mothballed or demolished (pleasure island) - even if its probably better for the customer if they stay...
And those things that are for more profit/less cost...the new downtown...are hammered through.

Yes...I know that all businesses do that...I get it.
But Disney has moved out of its own skin on this.

 

[robpa]

That's an excellent post...especially your take on "infrastructure" upgrades...

My differ is on the on the idea that they have things to offer and this is being done to "make things better"

Disney is not in that business anymore. Every move they make (or don't make) is about profit squeezing...things that break even or marginal yield...are mothballed or demolished (pleasure island) - even if its probably better for the customer if they stay...
And those things that are for more profit/less cost...the new downtown...are hammered through.

Yes...I know that all businesses do that...I get it.
But Disney has moved out of its own skin on this.

This is post is right on. None of what they are doing is to better your experience it is to maximize profit. Like most other businesses they are trying to get as much as they can today and worry about tomorrow.......well tomorrow. I figure even the most jaded person will visit a couple times if they have young kids. The more they can squeeze out of these visitors on top of the first timers and coupled with the Disney is awesome they love me people,well thats a lot of coin. When that gets exhausted we will reinvent(hopefully at little cost) and start the cycle all over again.

 

[tjkraz]

My differ is on the on the idea that they have things to offer and this is being done to "make things better"

Disney is not in that business anymore. Every move they make (or don't make) is about profit squeezing...things that break even or marginal yield...are mothballed or demolished (pleasure island) - even if its probably better for the customer if they stay...
And those things that are for more profit/less cost...the new downtown...are hammered through.

Yes...I know that all businesses do that...I get it.
But Disney has moved out of its own skin on this.

That may very well be the case, but the reality is we all still have our own free will and can decide whether to play their game or not.

Take something like the Sorcerer's of the Magic Kingdom interactive game. Why was that created? Was it to sell add-on card sets for a profit? Was it to keep people in the parks longer so they'll buy more churros?

I really don't know, nor do I care. I've never bought any add-on card sets, and if I hadn't eaten that churro in the theme park it would have instead been a muffin back at my hotel.

Disney's profits and my enjoyment are not mutually exclusive. They can actually build attractions and experiences which somehow drive the bottom line AND are enjoyable to guests.

As you yourself said, this is no different than what any other company does. Sadly we're far removed from the days when Michael Eisner would literally throw hundreds-of-millions into the theme parks just to soothe a bruised ego.

I understand exactly what Disney is doing. I'm not a naive sycophant. But at the same time, if I can benefit from the changes they make in the parks, so much the better.

I don't really care WHY Disney built Sorcerer's of the Magic Kingdom. We would have spent the same $$ for our park tickets with or without it. And the time I spent playing a couple rounds of that interactive game with my daughter are far more memorable than the 50th trip on It's A Small World, which is what we might have done otherwise.

We can keep beating this dead horse if necessary. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that Disney's primary objective is to separate me from as much of my money as possible. And I'll let them do that...right up to the point that I no longer feel it's a worthwhile expenditure on my part. (My own personal habits have already changed slightly in recent years as I find myself spending more time at Disneyland rather than WDW. DL seems to be putting out a better product these days.)

Even with the corner-cutting and other changes to the various Disney parks, there still isn't another amusement venue where I'd rather spend my money. If I felt that Six Flags, Sea World, or Universal had the better product, I'd patronize their establishments instead. But I don't see the point in taking a philosophical stand against Disney simply because "every move they make is about profit squeezing."

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well there's the stock excuse again...

And it pains me to see someone so experienced, thoughtful, and well informed use it.

Capitalism is not diplomatic immunity... It does not supersede all arguments.

There are two distinct "branches" of it: fair business and price gouging

Disney operated for several decades in its parks on one premise... And now I believe it has taken the low Road to the other. It was never cheap...but they made efforts to always give you the same or more for your money. I contend it has been 10 (I'm being generous...it's been more) years where they have not made a good faith effort at either.

And I'm not crying for nostalgia...I'm alerting to the possibility that the whole thing will be changed until it isn't what it is any longer.

And none of us want that at all... Not we who pay.

The problem is that everyone has to shake the damn cobwebs out of their heads and make conscious choices to spend their money... Not buy crap because of the label.

That's what wdw is becoming...vacations by walmart.

I know...I'm tough...but am I wrong?

 

[Robbi]

If I were single or only traveling ith adults, I would probably like FP+ a lot. Traveling with little ones and one of them disabled makes park touring more difficult. I can make my FP+ reservations 60 days in advance but I'd bet that at most a couple will stick. I know it's said that reservations times can be changed once we're in the parks but who knows if there will be times available that work.

Where is Disney going with Magic Bands?
IMO, Disney is going towards a pay to play plan and this is their way of getting used to the idea a change at a time. It may be based on offsite vs onsite, level of onsite accommodations, or as an add on to tickets.