Where is Disney going with Magic Bands?

[MichaelaF]

The point?

If its "poor Disney...we should all be grateful"... I think thought took a left turn somewhere

I hardly think that was what Marvin was getting at. I think his point was "You can't please all the people all the time."

(He can correct me if I'm wrong, however.)

 

[robpa]

I am truly excited about it. From my perspective, the two worst aspects of FastPass have always been:

1) A theme park visit structured around dashes from one FP machine to the next
2) The "take it our leave it" approach to dishing out FP return times

FP+ addresses both of those items. Ride times are secured weeks, days or minutes before arriving at the park--or after entering the park--and they are ride times of my own choosing. Now I can tour the park in a logical manner rather than dashing from land-to-land collecting FP tickets.

I'm not a watch/wristband guy so you won't see me sporting it as a fashion accessory. But the convenience is obvious. And the possibilities for integrating RFID tech seem limitless.

Go check out the theme parks board and witness the excitement that receiving a box of MagicBands is generating for people with WDW hotel reservations.



In a vacuum, I can see where EMH may not represent a park's most profitable operating hours. However, it's one of the dwindling number of reasons to motivate guests to pay $400 per night for a room that's worth $150.

If Disney were to eliminate EMH, they would unquestionably lose SOME hotel business. And less hotel business means fewer people immersed in the "magic", dining exclusively at Disney venues, drinking Disney cocktails, shopping at Disney boutiques, renting Disney water mice, etc.

The pressure WDW has felt from Harry Potter / USF is debatable. But I think we can agree that pressure is greater whenever a guest is pushed off-site.

So the real question isn't whether or not EMH is profitable. It's what Disney stands to lose via hotel/dining/shopping/recreation revenue when guests decide to stay a couple miles up the road because there's less value in Disney's inflated hotel prices.

Everyone is assuming that once this is totally implemented that they will be able to get the time they want for each fastpass. That may be true now(during limited testing) but will it be true when many more guests have access to it. If you don't book @ 60 days out its going to be slim pickings as far as optimum times.
The parks are only open for so long and rides can only support so many riders per hour so good times will fill up fast, especially if they are also going to hold some back for same day fastpass.

 

[mickeyfan0805]

My theory is that, at some point in the future, the standby lines as we know them will no longer exist for the biggest attractions. There will be a certain number of spots for the ride allocated to FP+ and, once the standby line reaches a certain point, people will present their bands at the attraction entrance to get a time at which they should return to the standby line.

The standby line would be kept long enough to provide a continuous supply of guests for boarding, but instead of someone physically waiting in line for 60-90 minutes or more, they will only be in the standby line for 20-30 minutes and will be free to browse shops, grab a snack, or enjoy a minor attraction in the area while they wait for their return time. For example, instead of standing in a 90 minute line for Test Track, someone could spend an hour or so browsing through Mouse Gear or Innoventions, or getting something to eat, before getting into the line.

This is similar to the test done at RNRC a couple of years ago (when standby guests were given a boarding group number and allowed to wait in an area behind the attraction) and what is now being done at Dumbo. It would help achieve Disney's goal of having people free to spend money instead of being held captive in line.

In essence, for major attractions, you'd be replacing the old FP/standby system with a reserved FP/standby FP system. It would be like a restaurant giving guests a beeper to notify them when a table is ready for them.

This is an interesting theory that has been passed around, but I think it presents a real crowd control problem. I have argued that an element of this is normalizing wait times. In the old system, the recurrent visitors would spend a lot less time in line than the 1-timers (we know how to maximize the system). The 1-timers, however, are a more ripe group for shopping. I think part of this is to level the disparity in this a little.

That said, the lines play an important role in crowd control. Imagine Christmas week crowds in the middle of the day at MK - now imagine what it would be like if all of the people in lines at the rides were out in the streets as well. This would pose a major crowd control issue for Disney. While it may not need to be 2 hours, I'm not sure they could handle the crowd issues of eliminating waits.

 

[tjkraz]

The 60 day reservation for FP+ is the big problem. If it winds up like the dining reservation where I will need to be up at 12AM to reserve a TSMM FP 60 days before my trip it will be a complete failure in my eyes. Will they eventually require a CC and charge you $10 for every ride you don't show up for?

No, of course not.

The reason for the $10 meal charge is warranted by the fact that restaurants lose money every time a table sits empty. And there's guest dissatisfaction when ADRs are not available.

Restaurants can only host a couple hundred parties per meal, per day. Every empty table eats into their margins.

When FP no-shows occur, it simply creates capacity for other guests...which most would view as a positive outcome.

My theory is that, at some point in the future, the standby lines as we know them will no longer exist for the biggest attractions. There will be a certain number of spots for the ride allocated to FP+ and, once the standby line reaches a certain point, people will present their bands at the attraction entrance to get a time at which they should return to the standby line.

The standby line would be kept long enough to provide a continuous supply of guests for boarding, but instead of someone physically waiting in line for 60-90 minutes or more, they will only be in the standby line for 20-30 minutes and will be free to browse shops, grab a snack, or enjoy a minor attraction in the area while they wait for their return time. For example, instead of standing in a 90 minute line for Test Track, someone could spend an hour or so browsing through Mouse Gear or Innoventions, or getting something to eat, before getting into the line.

This is similar to the test done at RNRC a couple of years ago (when standby guests were given a boarding group number and allowed to wait in an area behind the attraction) and what is now being done at Dumbo. It would help achieve Disney's goal of having people free to spend money instead of being held captive in line.

In essence, for major attractions, you'd be replacing the old FP/standby system with a reserved FP/standby FP system. It would be like a restaurant giving guests a beeper to notify them when a table is ready for them.

Yeah, but have you ever been to a restaurant with a beeper system when they are running 45 minutes behind on seatings? Usually there are people stacked miserably in the entrance way.

The Disney parks would face a similar problem. And that's why I don't think this is likely to happen. One of the familiar refrains you'll hear from frequent Disney guests is "it just keeps getting busier and busier!" In reality, park attendance hasn't increased all that much in recent years.

But what has apparently changed is the use of FastPass. Even before FP+, Disney kept pushing the limits of the legacy FP system, making more and more ride times available to guests. People like FP so this could be viewed as a good thing. But the net result is more and more people clogging the public walkways of each park.

If you shut down the Standby lines at Space Mountain, Splash, BTMR, Peter Pan and others, suddenly you've got 5000 more people filling the park walkways at all times...even on a slow day. On a busy day, it could be 10,000 guests. That just isn't workable.

It's also one of the reasons Disney invested in interactive enhancements to many attraction queues. Attractions like Haunted Mansion, BTMR, Test Track, Soarin, Space Mtn, Pooh and others added elements to help keep guests engaged during those waits.

One of the original concepts behind FP+ was that guests probably would utilizing the Standby queues more (given the limit of 3 FPs per day). However the lines would move faster (fewer FP "line cutters") and the wait would be more entertaining.

Conceptually it may seem like a great idea to do something other than just stand in a line. But realistically, most of the Disney parks NEED people in those lines. The queues serve a very important role in crowd control.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This is an interesting theory that has been passed around, but I think it presents a real crowd control problem. I have argued that an element of this is normalizing wait times. In the old system, the recurrent visitors would spend a lot less time in line than the 1-timers (we know how to maximize the system). The 1-timers, however, are a more ripe group for shopping. I think part of this is to level the disparity in this a little.

That said, the lines play an important role in crowd control. Imagine Christmas week crowds in the middle of the day at MK - now imagine what it would be like if all of the people in lines at the rides were out in the streets as well. This would pose a major crowd control issue for Disney. While it may not need to be 2 hours, I'm not sure they could handle the crowd issues of eliminating waits.

Bingo...said brilliantly

Especially a about the "ripeness" for those horrid giftshops.

I don't really tolerate lines...nor am i flashing the visa for that tired old junk.

Merchandise sales is at the root of this whole thing (and cutting employees)

... I'll keep saying this till somebody believes me

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Everyone is assuming that once this is totally implemented that they will be able to get the time they want for each fastpass. That may be true now(during limited testing) but will it be true when many more guests have access to it. If you don't book @ 60 days out its going to be slim pickings as far as optimum times.
The parks are only open for so long and rides can only support so many riders per hour so good times will fill up fast, especially if they are also going to hold some back for same day fastpass.

Again. Excellent.

The real danger here - especially by longtime travelers/posters - is that they are assuming that Disney is trying to make sure we get good "value" or everything we want from our tickets

That's fools errand.

 

[robpa]

Again. Excellent.

The real danger here - especially by longtime travelers/posters - is that they are assuming that Disney is trying to make sure we get good "value" or everything we want from our tickets

That's fools errand.

I think the fastpass+ is just window dressing anyway. They really want to be able to track where you are at any given time and then market whatever they are trying to push to whoever is in that area via your phone.

Your phone buzzes and a message about it being lunch time and why not try a nice smoked turkey leg. The cart is right next to you.

 

[bdklein]

Ask this guy.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-mymagic-oversight-20131030,0,6491648.story

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think the fastpass+ is just window dressing anyway. They really want to be able to track where you are at any given time and then market whatever they are trying to push to whoever is in that area via your phone.

Your phone buzzes and a message about it being lunch time and why not try a nice smoked turkey leg. The cart is right next to you.

Agreed...there is little doubt on the direct marketing goal....

Disneys only interest in fast pass is getting you out of the lines and into the stores...period.

Rides don't make money...so much to the point now that that they only give construction of them lip service. That's just the smoke.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ask this guy.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-mymagic-oversight-20131030,0,6491648.story

This article says it all...which is that it will "allow advanced bookings" of rides and shows. It also says NOTHING else. No pr, marketing or sales pitch...they aren't even bothering to try...
If that doesn't scare the crapola out of you... It should.

Mr. Garcia has been writing the disney articles for about ten years...when he is trying to "slide one by"...in tacit disapproval, it is brief and contains almost no superfluous details. Case in point.

 

[MichaelaF]

I think that eventually FP+ users are going to get the option of a free unicorn or a free puppy. Then the unicorn (or puppy) will also get a Magic Band. THe good news is, they can pick their own time windows! Granted, it's going to be a hassle to get the unicorn (or puppy) home on the plane, but HEY, FREE UNICORN (OR PUPPY), and you all KNOW how much those guys spend on Disney decorations for their horns.

WE SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, DISNEY. TRYING TO SELL US A BILL OF UNICORN (OR PUPPY) GOODS.

 

[robpa]

This article says it all...which is that it will "allow advanced bookings" of rides and shows. It also says NOTHING else. No pr, marketing or sales pitch...they aren't even bothering to try...
If that doesn't scare the crapola out of you... It should.

Mr. Garcia has been writing the disney articles for about ten years...when he is trying to "slide one by"...in tacit disapproval, it is brief and contains almost no superfluous details. Case in point.

Why should they bother spinning it. There are enough people who go and spend money anyway. There is a thread in the theme park section filled with people who are happy to spend thousands of dollars to walk around the parks and look at the scenery and people watch,they don't care if they ride any rides. They could do the same thing at public gardens for free or a much smaller fee than Disney charges.

Its like buying a car with all the bells and whistles but only a few of them work. Would anyone be happy with that?

 

[tjkraz]

I think the fastpass+ is just window dressing anyway. They really want to be able to track where you are at any given time and then market whatever they are trying to push to whoever is in that area via your phone.

Your phone buzzes and a message about it being lunch time and why not try a nice smoked turkey leg. The cart is right next to you.

I will be very surprised if that happens.

The FP+ advance reservations gives managers greater insight into guest habits and traffic patterns well in advance of the operating day. RFID tags could be used to detect operational trends during the actual day. For instance, if they are seeing a higher-than-normal volume of guests in Frontierland at lunch time, they could reassign staff from Cosmic Rays to Pecos Bill's.

But when you send targeted messages which constantly remind guests "we can tell exactly where you are and we're watching!", that's a level of intrusiveness which would prove very off-putting to many.

Overall there will be many subtle ways in which the MagicBands can help reduce Disney's operating costs AND increase revenues. The mere novelty of the touch-to-pay system makes it easier...and even "fun" in the minds of some guests...to make a purchase. In the earnings calls Iger / Staggs have already confirmed that average guest spending increased for those testing the bands.

Disney undeniably has its own motivations for implementing this tech. But that doesn't mean I need to spend a dollar more than I otherwise would. I don't need to buy a Turkey Leg from the stand next to me. I don't need to browse gift shops while waiting for my FP time.

And regardless of Disney's motivations, I have every expectation that my vacations will be improved by these enhancements.

An increase in Disney's profits and an increase in my satisfaction are not mutually exclusive phenomena.

 

[wisblue]

This is an interesting theory that has been passed around, but I think it presents a real crowd control problem. I have argued that an element of this is normalizing wait times. In the old system, the recurrent visitors would spend a lot less time in line than the 1-timers (we know how to maximize the system). The 1-timers, however, are a more ripe group for shopping. I think part of this is to level the disparity in this a little.

That said, the lines play an important role in crowd control. Imagine Christmas week crowds in the middle of the day at MK - now imagine what it would be like if all of the people in lines at the rides were out in the streets as well. This would pose a major crowd control issue for Disney. While it may not need to be 2 hours, I'm not sure they could handle the crowd issues of eliminating waits.

I'm not saying to eliminate them entirely, but put a limit on them, whether that be 30, 40, 50, or 60 minutes.

But, I agree that the other part of these changes is to balance out the ability of more guests to experience at least one or two major attractions at the expense of the experienced visitors who really worked the system. As one of those regular visitors, it isn't going to upset me to give up one more ride on one of the major headliners to allow someone else to enjoy it once.

The two tiered approach for FP+ at Epcot which came out today seems to be another example of this attempt to create balance.

 

[MichaelaF]

I will be very surprised if that happens.
Disney undeniably has its own motivations for implementing this tech. But that doesn't mean I need to spend a dollar more than I otherwise would. I don't need to buy a Turkey Leg from the stand next to me. I don't need to browse gift shops while waiting for my FP time.

And regardless of Disney's motivations, I have every expectation that my vacations will be improved by these enhancements.

An increase in Disney's profits and an increase in my satisfaction are not mutually exclusive phenomena.

I absolutely agree with this.

 

[robpa]

I will be very surprised if that happens.

The FP+ advance reservations gives managers greater insight into guest habits and traffic patterns well in advance of the operating day. RFID tags could be used to detect operational trends during the actual day. For instance, if they are seeing a higher-than-normal volume of guests in Frontierland at lunch time, they could reassign staff from Cosmic Rays to Pecos Bill's.

But when you send targeted messages which constantly remind guests "we can tell exactly where you are and we're watching!", that's a level of intrusiveness which would prove very off-putting to many.

Overall there will be many subtle ways in which the MagicBands can help reduce Disney's operating costs AND increase revenues. The mere novelty of the touch-to-pay system makes it easier...and even "fun" in the minds of some guests...to make a purchase. In the earnings calls Iger / Staggs have already confirmed that average guest spending increased for those testing the bands.

Disney undeniably has its own motivations for implementing this tech. But that doesn't mean I need to spend a dollar more than I otherwise would. I don't need to buy a Turkey Leg from the stand next to me. I don't need to browse gift shops while waiting for my FP time.

And regardless of Disney's motivations, I have every expectation that my vacations will be improved by these enhancements.

An increase in Disney's profits and an increase in my satisfaction are not mutually exclusive phenomena.

I don't think they would say the cart is next to you, I was just trying to emphasize my point. I believe they would be more subtle than that. No one wants to think that big brother is watching you but this certainly reeks of that.

I hope that this does improve your vacations because vacations are a precious commodity, but major corporations only do things to improve their bottom line. Not saying that is wrong, but at what expense to avg. Joe vacationer. You don't spend 1 billion dollars without having a plan as to how quickly you can recoup that money. Cutting some staff isn't going to get it back faster,they have already done that. I don't know how many more people you can cram into the parks. I guess they will use this to justify the next ticket increase.

They have a grander plan just not sure what it is yet.

 

[quikah]

now that I think on it, Magicbands are kind of limited. They have no way of influencing guest behavior, it is just a tracking mechanism. Makes me wonder why they went this route. Seems rather 20th century thinking.

They could make a custom iPod touch like pendant that would have interactive content tied into the park WiFi. Too many people in Fantasyland? Send a "Surprise FP" to Jungle Cruise to X people in FL. Not enough sales at the Emporium? Send X people a 10% coupon. You could have nice interactive games also to hide the fact that you are really trying to influence behavior. Revive the Pal Mickey with this.

I guess costs is an issue, but they already spent $1B+ on this. They could tie it into Disney Infinity even to make more money.

 

[jtwibih]

The water is very murky on this subject. The lack of marketing is astonishing. It feels like they are just forcing people to accept this with no "what's in it for you" pitch other than pre-planning. At least sell me on why this is great.......

 

[robpa]

The water is very murky on this subject. The lack of marketing is astonishing. It feels like they are just forcing people to accept this with no "what's in it for you" pitch other than pre-planning. At least sell me on why this is great.......

Exactly, makes it seem like they are hiding something. The problem is people have been accepting whatever Disney does for years now. The parks are still jammed so why should they add attractions or value to your vacation, you will still come anyway ( by you I mean Disney guests in general not YOU jtwibih)

 

[disneynutz]

now that I think on it, Magicbands are kind of limited. They have no way of influencing guest behavior, it is just a tracking mechanism. Makes me wonder why they went this route. Seems rather 20th century thinking.

They could make a custom iPod touch like pendant that would have interactive content tied into the park WiFi. Too many people in Fantasyland? Send a "Surprise FP" to Jungle Cruise to X people in FL. Not enough sales at the Emporium? Send X people a 10% coupon. You could have nice interactive games also to hide the fact that you are really trying to influence behavior. Revive the Pal Mickey with this.

I guess costs is an issue, but they already spent $1B+ on this. They could tie it into Disney Infinity even to make more money.

Guest tracking, moving them faster, interactive experience, and Disney already has seen increased spending because waving a MB doesn't feel like you are spending money.

Offering FP's based on where you are staying is just around the corner and using them to balance attraction attendance is a plus for Disney and Guests.

I expect that Disney will also be able to reduce the number of CM's once the system is fully implemented.

Bill