Potential ownership: comments & questions... UPDATE... Membership info has arrived!

[CarolMN]

Take a look at this thread - it may help you better understand what people are telling you about use year:

Understanding Use Year

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[glamdring269]

from the OP:



what happens if you travel in late may if you have a june UY and need to cancel? this is why you were steered away from a june UY before.

Very good point. I think for the purpose of this exercise I'm assuming we would just not travel at the end of May. The only reason we would do that as of now is because it ties in closely to the end of school and we could just delay the trip start a day or two to ensure it begins in June. This also likely means we get to bypass a weekend making the trip that much cheaper. Ultimately we would just have to be very aware of the fact that using points in late May carries a risk.

So assuming no travel in late May, would June be an ok choice for travel primarily in June/Oct/Dec?

And to the underlined portion, you're right, the language was not the best. I understand that you can begin using that once you're in the 11/7 months booking range along with the additional normal UY points.

Thanks again.

 

[glamdring269]

Take a look at this thread - it may help you better understand what people are telling you about use year:

Understanding Use Year

.

Thanks Carol, I'll be sure to go through that thread again. It has been awhile. Honestly I think I'm ok with June but just looking for assurance that I'm not overlooking something more than anything else. I tend to overanalyze and fall victim to analysis paralysis way too often.

After reading through again I think this is likely the most important point:

Use year only matters if you have to cancel a vacation that was scheduled to occur late in your use year - during the last three months. That's because banking is not allowed during the last four months of your use year and so you don't have much time to reschedule before the points expire. Many owners never have to cancel a vacation (lucky them, LOL) so they don't worry about use year.

So basically, if I never (or rarely) intend to travel during Mar/Apr/May then June should work out just fine.

This does lead me to another question... as usual...

I'd like to confirm that point usage is specific to the date of use and not tied to the start date of the trip. Example with June UY: If I have a trip that starts in May and ends in June, but have to cancel in April, I would lose any current UY points that I did not bank but could still bank the June UY points used to support the June dates. Is this right?

I think this will be my last question for awhile!

 

[CarolMN]

...(snip)......


So basically, if I never (or rarely) intend to travel during Mar/Apr/May then June should work out just fine.

Correct.

This does lead me to another question... as usual...

I'd like to confirm that point usage is specific to the date of use and not tied to the start date of the trip. Example with June UY: If I have a trip that starts in May and ends in June, but have to cancel in April, I would lose any current UY points that I did not bank but could still bank the June UY points used to support the June dates. Is this right?

I think this will be my last question for awhile!

Also correct.

 

[Dean]

Another question, this time on UY...

If I'm most likely to travel in Jun, Oct, Dec is there a problem with June UY? Based on the OP I received a suggestion of October which does make sense to me but the concern there are the amount of available Oct contracts.

If I understand UY correctly then it seems a June UY would still give me ample time time to bank current use year points if I have to cancel an Oct or Dec trip. FYI, I doubt I would travel in JAN/FEB/MAR/APR, but could travel in last week of May potentially.

Am I thinking about this correctly?

Scenario:
- June UY - 100 points
- December '13 trip scheduled using 100 June '13 points
- Realize I need to cancel in early November so cancel reservation.
- Decide to bank the 100 points immediately since I know I will not be able to use them this UY.
- June 1 2014 - I now have access to the 100 '13 UY banked points as well as the 100 '14 UY points.
- Must use (or sell/transfer) the '13 UY points by May 31 2015 or lose them. Must bank the '14 points by Jan 31 2015 or use them by May 31 2015 or lose them.

So based on the scenario this will work for me but I'm probably looking at this simplistically. What are the negatives to having a June UY in my scenario? I assume any negatives revolve around the usage of banked points?

Thanks again. You have all been extremely helpful!

Assuming equal usage for all 3 months, June would be the best by far because you would still be in your banking window for any points that you end up canceling during those 3 months AND you'd statistically have the largest part of the UY to reuse them if you need and couldn't bank such as for banked points. You'd also have the most time to use any points that might end up in a holding status. If your normal usage is heavily slated to one time or another, that could change the UY that's best but the principles still apply. Say most of your travel would be Dec with a small % in the other 2 months, Dec instantly becomes the best choice.

 

[glamdring269]

Thanks again for the advice everyone. I think you have now well equipped me for venturing into the secondary market and buying my first contract. Not sure when that will actually happen but when it does I will be sure to let everyone know. Thanks!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Let me ask you guys a pricing question here. I know all situations are not created equal but this is just a scenario. I'm basically trying to determine value of a stripped contract.

100 points at VWL
$100/point asking price
$10000 (not counting closing)
No 13 or 14 points available. 10/15 is when first available.

I saw a 50 point contract in the ROFR thread sell for $87/point that still had some '12 points all 13/14 points.

So let's assume $87/point here as an offer that would drop the 100 point price down to $8700. Well, the problem here is I'm now missing two years of points. Should I also decrease the value of what I could get if I had those points and could have sold them?

Example, 200 points x $10/point = $2000
$8700 - $2000 = $6700
$6700 + $1158 ($5.79/pt maintenance fee for 2 years) = $7858
$7858 / 100 = $78.58 / point


So I would offer $78.58 per point, or $7858.

Am I thinking about this correctly? Or am I placing too much value on points that have been stripped from a contract? This does also assume that the $87/point start was a good place. Might be a little inflated due to the 50 point contract premium. If there is a general advice thread on how to go about negotiating prices I would love to see it. Apologies in advance if I've overlooked it.

Thanks!

*edited because I forgot they pay some maintenance fees* adjustment made above.
*realized some amazing grammatical errors... corrected!*

If I were the seller and you offered me 22% less than I was asking, I'd tell the agent to blow you off. Even with the lack of points. You are valuing the mssing points much too highly. As the seller, I would expect to pay you the dues for 2014 and 3/4 of 2015.

 

[glamdring269]

If I were the seller and you offered me 22% less than I was asking, I'd tell the agent to blow you off. Even with the lack of points. You are valuing the mssing points much too highly. As the seller, I would expect to pay you the dues for 2014 and 3/4 of 2015.

I understand what you're saying here from the perspective of a seller. I guess I'm assuming the sale in the rofr thread should count as some sort of base line but understand that's not necessarily the case. We all do need something to bounce our offers against though I suppose. Whether that's by using recent historical sales data or banging our heads against the wall by making offers that get blown off by the seller. I'd rather err on whichever side eventually gets me the best deal. After all, there's obviously no reason to rush to secure a deal on a stripped contract where you gain no tangible benefit for 2 years if you don't like the initial asking price anyway!

 

[Deb & Bill]

I understand what you're saying here from the perspective of a seller. I guess I'm assuming the sale in the rofr thread should count as some sort of base line but understand that's not necessarily the case. We all do need something to bounce our offers against though I suppose. Whether that's by using recent historical sales data or banging our heads against the wall by making offers that get blown off by the seller. I'd rather err on whichever side eventually gets me the best deal. After all, there's obviously no reason to rush to secure a deal on a stripped contract where you gain no tangible benefit for 2 years if you don't like the initial asking price anyway!

VWL is a very small resort and doesn't get a whole lot of resales. So the history you are looking at may be old and doesn't hold a lot of weight. And I am speaking from my own experience. I had a VWL contract 100 points for sale a few years ago. I was offered about $15 less than I had asked. Countered with the asking price and the potential buyer countered with a few dollars more than they offered the first time. I blew them off, kept the contract and we still use it.

 

[glamdring269]

Well I just put in my first offer for a resale contract at BWV. We like a few different resorts for different reasons but ultimately decided that having 11 month booking at BWV was probably more important than our other two choices. Who knows, in a few years we might decide to add on at one of those.

I want to thank everyone again for all of the assistance. I'll definitely report back whenever we are finally part of the club.

 

[Annielkd22222]

Well I just put in my first offer for a resale contract at BWV. We like a few different resorts for different reasons but ultimately decided that having 11 month booking at BWV was probably more important than our other two choices. Who knows, in a few years we might decide to add on at one of those.

I want to thank everyone again for all of the assistance. I'll definitely report back whenever we are finally part of the club.

Good luck!

 

[glamdring269]

Well, just had my first rejection email. Not so much rejection in the sense that my offer was rejected but the property is no longer available. I guess I've learned that the online inventory is not exactly up to date. This particular broker updates only on Tues/Thurs (?).

With that said, have any of you found specific brokers that tend to keep their active inventory more up to date?

Is it better to just call in and ask for available inventory instead of placing offers based on web site inventory?

thanks.

 

[Silver19]

I'm my opinion, TSS posts their listings quickly and keep them current. Calling won't help. I've tried.

Calling Fidelity can bear fruit. They will have "whisper listings" (inventory that has yet to be posted online).

 

[g.armor]

for "every third year", i'd stick to renting and not buy in.

Why do you recommend this? I was thinking about doing this myself by buying a minimal point contract--say 50 points a year. Then I would bank 50, use the next year's points, and borrow the following year's 50 to get a 150-point villa for that "middle" year. Why would you recommend against this?

 

[Annielkd22222]

Well, just had my first rejection email. Not so much rejection in the sense that my offer was rejected but the property is no longer available. I guess I've learned that the online inventory is not exactly up to date. This particular broker updates only on Tues/Thurs (?).

With that said, have any of you found specific brokers that tend to keep their active inventory more up to date?

Is it better to just call in and ask for available inventory instead of placing offers based on web site inventory?

thanks.

I think you should go with either the timeshare store or resale dvc. They both would have called and taken care of the offer immediately....not notify you by email.

 

[Dean]

Why do you recommend this? I was thinking about doing this myself by buying a minimal point contract--say 50 points a year. Then I would bank 50, use the next year's points, and borrow the following year's 50 to get a 150-point villa for that "middle" year. Why would you recommend against this?

I can't speak for Chalee but I'd tend to agree with her though I think this is an area where it depends. For some every 3 yrs may be workable and represent a savings. However, you have more risk with every third year and actually with banked and borrowed points in general. What if you have to change or cancel last minute. I do believe that for EOY or every third year, UY is even more important than for other times all else being the same.

 

[Nabas]

Why do you recommend this? I was thinking about doing this myself by buying a minimal point contract--say 50 points a year. Then I would bank 50, use the next year's points, and borrow the following year's 50 to get a 150-point villa for that "middle" year. Why would you recommend against this?

Many join DVC because they simply like the idea of being a member. It's a cool feeling. Considering a timeshare is a luxury item, it's a valid reason for buying a DVC membership. If this is your primary motivation for buying into DVC, then a small contract is something to consider.

With that said, DVC's big selling point (at least that's what the guides say ) is that, over the long haul, DVC is supposed to save money.

The problem with a small contract is that it can take an incredibly long time to reach the break-even point because:

a. Small contracts sell for premiums

b. As a percent of the total, the closing cost on small contracts is higher.

Taking both of these into consideration, someone buying a small contract is paying a much higher per point price. That means it's going to take a longer time to reach the breakeven point where you actually start saving money.

Many who buy small contracts as their first contracts (I'm not talking about members who add on) do so because that's all they can afford.

If I was in that situation, then I would hesitate buying DVC because it might be 10-20 years before I reach the break-even point. In other words, for the next 10-20 years, I might actually be spending more than if I simply rented someone else's DVC points or stayed in a Moderate or Value Resort. I wouldn't feel comfortable stretching myself financially, knowing that I could still vacation at WDW once every 3 years, pay less by staying in a Value or Moderate Resort, and not tie-up my capital in what is, after all, a timeshare.

 

[chalee94]

Why do you recommend this? I was thinking about doing this myself by buying a minimal point contract--say 50 points a year. Then I would bank 50, use the next year's points, and borrow the following year's 50 to get a 150-point villa for that "middle" year. Why would you recommend against this?

you can bank or borrow pts one time, then they are "stuck" in that new UY. you cannot bank them forward to the next UY or otherwise move them after they have been moved once with banking or borrowing.

so what if things change and you have to cancel one year? maybe you can't reschedule until the next UY. you risk losing 2 or 3 UYs of pts.

even if things work well, you are unlikely to use exactly 3 years' worth of pts. you'd likely wind up with a few extra pts that might go to waste. (you would have the option of trying to transfer them, but that can be a hassle.)

and DVC reallocates pts on the point charts sometimes so there's also that risk of winding up short of pts. for example, DVC used to charge 8 pts per weeknight for an OKW studio in low season...now it's up to 10 pts per weeknight. (weekends did get cheaper but if you own a bare minimum of pts, you are probably not splurging, so you would be unlikely to come out ahead in a reallocation.)

if you only want pts for every third year, just stick to renting IMO.

(and for the record, i am a dude... )

 

[crisi]

Why do you recommend this? I was thinking about doing this myself by buying a minimal point contract--say 50 points a year. Then I would bank 50, use the next year's points, and borrow the following year's 50 to get a 150-point villa for that "middle" year. Why would you recommend against this?

I think its less of a deal than it used to be - now that you can rent a few points direct from Disney to round out a contract, but the issue is that you need to be spending EXACTLY 150 points every three years so your points don't go to waste. If you move time of year, you'll have too many or two few points. If DVC adjusts how many points are needed, you'll have too many or too few points. Small contracts sell for a premium on the resale market, so you aren't likely to save too much over renting points after you adjust for the inevitable points lost.

 

[lodge]

. (and for the record, i am a dude... )

lol

If you purchase a few of these small contracts, with intent of combing 3 years points, you can also transfer leftover points to yourself (or just combine if the same UY) and use those points with a few one-time-use points to grab one more night. It may be at another resort, but use it for your first night stay, to be ready for a full day of Disney the next morning. Then have your things transferred to your longer stay DVC reserved room.

Possibility/ option if you're willing to put forth some work to do it.