Sale & ROFR prices Jun '13

dmunsil · Jul 5, 2013

Here are the sale and ROFR prices recorded in June 2013 for WDW resorts.

I put them all in one post for convenience. They're sorted by the date on the ROFR waiver (or the date on the deed for contracts taken by Disney), but the recording date is listed in case you want to look up a specific deed; generally there's enough here to be able to find it without having to sort through a ton of them. If folks want more columns I can add them.

I added one more average to the list, which is to take the total dollars spent for the month and divide by the total points sold or ROFRed. I did this because I was worried that the small contracts were throwing off the averages. And they are, but not by very much. All three averages give similar numbers. I think I'll just pick one next month. Probably median, which makes the most sense to me.

You'll note that the waiver date in some cases goes months back, which really suggests that I shouldn't even include them in the average. I thought about doing an average of just the stuff that actually got a waiver inside the 30 days since the most recent waiver on the list, but I'd be throwing out too many data points in some cases. And it doesn't seem worth the effort. If you're trying to figure out what to offer on a contract, you really just need the overall trend (which is up) and a rough idea of what contracts have been going for recently.

As in previous months, there were so many SSR contracts that I opted to sample them at 2:1 and thus this list is only every other sale. I don't think it throws the average off by much at all.

AKV

Code:

Sales
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
6-Mar   20-Jun  250     Feb  $62.00 
13-Mar  20-Jun  250     Feb  $60.00 
22-Apr  6-Jun   240     Aug  $66.00 
29-Apr  12-Jun  160     Dec  $66.00 
30-Apr  5-Jun   200     Oct  $75.00 
6-May   3-Jun   175     Dec  $60.00 
6-May   3-Jun   175     Dec  $65.00 
6-May   5-Jun   210     Aug  $55.00 
6-May   10-Jun  200     Dec  $71.00 
6-May   12-Jun  160     Dec  $69.00 
6-May   12-Jun  250     Dec  $68.00 
13-May  7-Jun   100     Jun  $70.00 
13-May  10-Jun  160     Dec  $68.00 
13-May  10-Jun  160     Jun  $72.00 
13-May  11-Jun  225     Sep  $65.00 
13-May  17-Jun  100     Dec  $75.00 
13-May  18-Jun  160     Feb  $67.00 
13-May  18-Jun  175     Dec  $67.00 
13-May  21-Jun  240     Feb  $63.00 
14-May  5-Jun   100     Feb  $65.00 
21-May  4-Jun   270     Sep  $70.00 
21-May  5-Jun   225     Mar  $70.00 
21-May  5-Jun   220     Dec  $70.00 
21-May  7-Jun   100     Oct  $67.00 
21-May  7-Jun   250     Jun  $68.00 
21-May  18-Jun  100     Dec  $74.00 
21-May  18-Jun  100     Dec  $74.00 
21-May  20-Jun  420     Mar  $70.00 
21-May  20-Jun  200     Feb  $74.00 
21-May  26-Jun  160     Dec  $75.00 
27-May  18-Jun  160     Dec  $66.00 
27-May  28-Jun  500     Dec  $57.00 
28-May  20-Jun  160     Apr  $69.00 
3-Jun   25-Jun  110     Dec  $68.00 
10-Jun  27-Jun  180     Sep  $70.00 
10-Jun  27-Jun  160     Jun  $68.00 
10-Jun  28-Jun  200     Oct  $62.00 
17-Jun  26-Jun  160     Dec  $75.00 
24-Jun  28-Jun  160     Apr  $58.00 
24-Jun  28-Jun  160     Dec  $60.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $68.00 
                       Mean: $67.35 
                Tot$/TotPts: $66.66

BCV

Code:

BCV
Sales
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
29-Apr  21-Jun  250     Oct  $62.00 
6-May   5-Jun   150     Dec  $77.00 
7-May   6-Jun   200     Aug  $76.00 
13-May  10-Jun  200     Aug  $77.00 
13-May  10-Jun  100     Sep  $84.00 
13-May  10-Jun  100     Oct  $85.00 
13-May  12-Jun  200     Oct  $75.00 
21-May  4-Jun   170     Aug  $74.00 
21-May  4-Jun   270     Dec  $76.00 
21-May  6-Jun   50      Aug  $86.00 
21-May  7-Jun   50      Dec  $86.00 
21-May  10-Jun  100     Sep  $84.00 
21-May  18-Jun  175     Sep  $79.00 
21-May  20-Jun  270     Feb  $71.00 
21-May  20-Jun  150     Apr  $74.00 
21-May  20-Jun  252     Apr  $80.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  275     Mar  $76.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  30      Mar  $86.00 
3-Jun   20-Jun  300     Oct  $75.00 
3-Jun   20-Jun  330     Dec  $78.00 
3-Jun   21-Jun  160     Dec  $78.00 
17-Jun  27-Jun  210     Mar  $77.00 
17-Jun  27-Jun  200     Dec  $75.00 
17-Jun  28-Jun  150     Apr  $80.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $77.00 
                       Mean: $77.96 
                Tot$/TotPts: $76.30 

ROFR
Deed    Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
18-May  13-Jun  150     Sep  $72.00 
20-May  4-Jun   300     Feb  $67.00 
20-May  4-Jun   50      Feb  $68.00 
23-May  20-Jun  750     Mar  $50.00 
28-May  12-Jun  310     Mar  $70.00 
31-May  20-Jun  400     Feb  $70.00 
10-Jun  26-Jun  170     Jun  $75.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $70.00 
                       Mean: $67.43 
                Tot$/TotPts: $63.03

BLT

Code:

BLT
Sales
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
29-Apr  7-Jun   250     Aug  $85.00 
6-May   4-Jun   325     Dec  $91.00 
6-May   6-Jun   125     Feb  $95.00 
6-May   6-Jun   200     Apr  $89.00 
6-May   7-Jun   200     Feb  $85.00 
6-May   7-Jun   210     Feb  $90.00 
13-May  4-Jun   30      Dec  $116.00 
13-May  5-Jun   230     Feb  $100.00 
13-May  5-Jun   200     Feb  $80.00 
13-May  5-Jun   50      Apr  $94.00 
13-May  12-Jun  100     Jun  $95.00 
21-May  4-Jun   180     Feb  $95.00 
21-May  12-Jun  160     Sep  $90.00 
21-May  20-Jun  200     Feb  $92.00 
27-May  7-Jun   200     Apr  $95.00 
27-May  11-Jun  200     Apr  $95.00 
27-May  20-Jun  160     Feb  $95.00 
27-May  21-Jun  160     Jun  $95.00 
3-Jun   12-Jun  180     Feb  $95.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  100     Sep  $98.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  100     Oct  $102.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  160     Feb  $93.00 
4-Jun   20-Jun  100     Jun  $93.00 
10-Jun  20-Jun  160     Aug  $90.00 
17-Jun  24-Jun  160     Sep  $99.00 
17-Jun  25-Jun  50      Sep  $108.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $95.00 
                       Mean: $94.42 
                Tot$/TotPts: $92.67 

ROFR
Deed    Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
18-May  4-Jun   300     Feb  $90.00 
5-Jun   26-Jun  160     Mar  $90.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $90.00 
                       Mean: $90.00 
                Tot$/TotPts: $90.00

BWV

Code:

BWV
Sales
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
6-May   20-Jun  180     Aug  $69.00 
13-May  4-Jun   300     Sep  $72.00 
13-May  5-Jun   210     Apr  $70.00 
13-May  13-Jun  350     Jun  $77.00 
21-May  10-Jun  150     Jun  $74.00 
21-May  11-Jun  150     Apr  $69.00 
21-May  12-Jun  160     Mar  $70.00 
21-May  14-Jun  270     Feb  $81.00 
21-May  18-Jun  50      Dec  $74.00 
21-May  20-Jun  250     Dec  $74.00 
27-May  7-Jun   50      Dec  $78.00 
27-May  11-Jun  170     Aug  $72.00 
27-May  17-Jun  250     Feb  $81.00 
27-May  18-Jun  150     Oct  $74.00 
28-May  19-Jun  50      Dec  $90.00 
3-Jun   12-Jun  100     Feb  $80.00 
10-Jun  17-Jun  150     Aug  $73.00 
10-Jun  27-Jun  100     Sep  $82.00 
10-Jun  27-Jun  150     Dec  $70.00 
10-Jun  24-Jun  150     Jun  $73.00 
12-Jun  12-Jun  100     Sep  $77.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $74.00 
                       Mean: $75.24 
                Tot$/TotPts: $74.69 

ROFR                             
Deed    Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
23-Apr  4-Jun   125     Sep  $69.00 
23-Apr  13-Jun  200     Sep  $69.00 
19-May  4-Jun   150     Feb  $65.00 
19-May  5-Jun   400     Aug  $69.00 
20-May  4-Jun   200     Oct  $64.00 
21-May  4-Jun   200     Oct  $65.00 
6-Jun   26-Jun  160     Dec  $68.00 
7-Jun   26-Jun  230     Apr  $68.00 
10-Jun  20-Jun  270     Sep  $72.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $68.00 
                       Mean: $67.67 
                Tot$/TotPts: $67.98

OKW

Code:

OKW
Sales
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
19-Feb  18-Jun  240     Jun  $54.00 
19-Mar  26-Jun  210     Mar  $51.00 
15-Apr  5-Jun   210     Feb  $65.00 
30-Apr  5-Jun   300     Dec  $70.00 
6-May   5-Jun   270     Dec  $62.00 
6-May   7-Jun   120     Dec  $56.00 
6-May   21-Jun  150     Aug  $55.00 
6-May   25-Jun  270     Apr  $60.00 
6-May   28-Jun  210     Aug  $60.00 
7-May   6-Jun   230     Apr  $64.00 
13-May  4-Jun   220     Dec  $62.00 
13-May  5-Jun   50      Feb  $56.00 
13-May  5-Jun   70      Apr  $75.00 
13-May  6-Jun   100     Apr  $72.00 
13-May  10-Jun  210     Feb  $62.00 
13-May  10-Jun  100     Mar  $68.00 
13-May  18-Jun  200     Mar  $59.00 
21-May  5-Jun   45      Aug  $80.00 
21-May  5-Jun   55      Aug  $80.00 
21-May  6-Jun   110     Oct  $65.00 
21-May  10-Jun  50      Oct  $70.00 
21-May  12-Jun  230     Feb  $68.00 
21-May  18-Jun  220     Jun  $62.00 
21-May  19-Jun  230     Apr  $67.00 
21-May  19-Jun  150     Mar  $65.00 
21-May  19-Jun  450     Mar  $69.00 
27-May  11-Jun  75      Aug  $64.00 
27-May  20-Jun  210     Sep  $55.00 
28-May  19-Jun  260     Mar  $65.00 
28-May  26-Jun  450     Mar  $66.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  230     Sep  $63.00 
3-Jun   19-Jun  55      Jun  $69.00 
3-Jun   28-Jun  240     Dec  $60.00 
4-Jun   12-Jun  202     Jun  $68.00 
10-Jun  18-Jun  150     Jun  $58.00 
10-Jun  18-Jun  150     Feb  $60.00 
24-Jun  28-Jun  150     Sep  $64.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $64.00 
                       Mean: $64.03 
                Tot$/TotPts: $63.28 

ROFR
Deed    Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
22-Apr  19-Jun  190     Apr  $58.00 
6-May   21-Jun  120     Sep  $66.00 
16-May  5-Jun   250     Dec  $55.00 
20-May  13-Jun  310     Mar  $55.00 
21-May  4-Jun   230     Dec  $55.00 
21-May  4-Jun   260     Dec  $55.00 
23-May  13-Jun  250     Dec  $48.00 
31-May  12-Jun  370     Apr  $60.00 
3-Jun   13-Jun  150     Feb  $37.00 
4-Jun   12-Jun  125     Sep  $55.00 
5-Jun   20-Jun  200     Apr  $59.00 
5-Jun   26-Jun  250     Sep  $54.00 
7-Jun   20-Jun  310     Oct  $63.00 
13-Jun  21-Jun  230     Dec  $62.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $55.00 
                       Mean: $55.86 
                Tot$/TotPts: $56.21

SSR

Code:

Sales (2:1 ratio)
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
12-Feb  5-Jun   100     Jun  $65.00 
12-Mar  18-Jun  350     Jun  $56.00 
2-Apr   4-Jun   160     Aug  $58.00 
29-Apr  7-Jun   150     Dec  $57.00 
4-May   12-Jun  200     Dec  $67.00 
4-May   19-Jun  320     Aug  $58.00 
6-May   6-Jun   200     Aug  $61.00 
6-May   13-Jun  25      Feb  $68.00 
13-May  3-Jun   250     Oct  $60.00 
13-May  4-Jun   120     Feb  $59.00 
13-May  5-Jun   100     Jun  $59.00 
13-May  6-Jun   160     Jun  $68.00 
13-May  7-Jun   250     Jun  $66.00 
13-May  7-Jun   250     Dec  $55.00 
13-May  11-Jun  275     Mar  $65.00 
13-May  12-Jun  200     Jun  $67.00 
13-May  13-Jun  250     Jun  $53.00 
13-May  18-Jun  300     Mar  $60.00 
13-May  18-Jun  400     Jun  $64.00 
21-May  5-Jun   200     Dec  $62.00 
21-May  10-Jun  170     Dec  $69.00 
21-May  10-Jun  220     Mar  $69.00 
21-May  10-Jun  160     Sep  $55.00 
21-May  12-Jun  150     Feb  $62.00 
21-May  20-Jun  200     Dec  $70.00 
27-May  17-Jun  125     Apr  $60.00 
27-May  18-Jun  100     Feb  $63.00 
27-May  28-Jun  110     Oct  $58.00 
28-May  10-Jun  100     Mar  $65.00 
3-Jun   12-Jun  150     Jun  $69.00 
3-Jun   18-Jun  300     Sep  $68.00 
3-Jun   20-Jun  160     Feb  $67.00 
3-Jun   21-Jun  250     Oct  $58.00 
3-Jun   25-Jun  150     Feb  $66.00 
10-Jun  24-Jun  160     Jun  $65.00 
10-Jun  26-Jun  200     Dec  $67.00 
10-Jun  26-Jun  160     Dec  $63.00 
10-Jun  28-Jun  200     Sep  $67.00 
24-Jun  26-Jun  230     Jun  $67.00 
24-Jun  28-Jun  100     Feb  $62.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $63.50 
                       Mean: $62.95 
                Tot$/TotPts: $62.69

VWL

Code:

VWL
Sales
Waiver  Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
30-Apr  18-Jun  220     Dec  $63.00 
7-May   10-Jun  200     Aug  $69.00 
13-May  5-Jun   250     Aug  $73.00 
21-May  5-Jun   210     Sep  $73.00 
27-May  5-Jun   250     Mar  $72.00 
27-May  13-Jun  28      Aug  $89.00 
27-May  28-Jun  250     Dec  $65.00 
3-Jun   21-Jun  200     Sep  $56.00 
3-Jun   21-Jun  400     Aug  $65.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $69.00 
                       Mean: $69.44 
                Tot$/TotPts: $67.32 

ROFR
Deed    Rec'd   Points  UY   Sale PPP
17-Apr  13-Jun  300     Feb  $51.00 
13-May  5-Jun   200     Feb  $62.00 
20-May  4-Jun   200     Feb  $62.00 
22-May  13-Jun  150     Aug  $60.00 
28-May  21-Jun  350     Oct  $57.00 
31-May  13-Jun  150     Apr  $73.00 
4-Jun   20-Jun  150     Jun  $70.00 
13-Jun  21-Jun  150     Apr  $72.00 
------------------------------------
                     Median: $62.00 
                       Mean: $63.38 
                Tot$/TotPts: $61.39

JustTinking · Jul 6, 2013

Don, if I'm reading correctly, looking at your posts from last month, the median price at BWV was $69 in May, and is now $74 in June. Am I interpreting this correctly? YIKES!

dmunsil · Jul 6, 2013

JustTinking said:
Don, if I'm reading correctly, looking at your posts from last month, the median price at BWV was $69 in May, and is now $74 in June. Am I interpreting this correctly? YIKES!

That is correct. Yikes indeed.

JustTinking · Jul 8, 2013

I'm going to need to adjust my thinking on this. Would be nice to believe that this is just a bubble and it will burst soon. ELMC had a post a week or two back where he characterized this as the new norm, and he did not believe we would see prices at BWV in the 50's or 60's again. Any thoughts on this? Are the other properties seeing a proportional increase? I'm thinking of adding on at AKL as well, and where there used to be pages of resales I'm now seeing less than a page. I understand the laws of supply and demand, but how does one predict supply? Will it ever return to where it was? What is driving the low supply currently?

Missyrose · Jul 8, 2013

JustTinking said:
I'm going to need to adjust my thinking on this. Would be nice to believe that this is just a bubble and it will burst soon. ELMC had a post a week or two back where he characterized this as the new norm, and he did not believe we would see prices at BWV in the 50's or 60's again. Any thoughts on this? Are the other properties seeing a proportional increase? I'm thinking of adding on at AKL as well, and where there used to be pages of resales I'm now seeing less than a page. I understand the laws of supply and demand, but how does one predict supply? Will it ever return to where it was? What is driving the low supply currently?

I can't remember who put forth this hypothesis (maybe Doug or Jim), but what makes the most sense to me about the higher resale prices is this:

When the economy truly tanked, lots of people who needed to sell did. Then many, many people who kinda, sorta weren't sure if they could afford DVC any longer also sold. This led to lots and lots of contracts on the market and low prices because people just wanted out. As the economy has inched its way toward recovery, there are simply fewer people who have to sell and many of the marginal owners likely sold in the past few years. So less supply + greater demand = higher prices.

ImagineerTHAT · Jul 8, 2013

Missyrose said:
I can't remember who put forth this hypothesis (maybe Doug or Jim), but what makes the most sense to me about the higher resale prices is this:

When the economy truly tanked, lots of people who needed to sell did. Then many, many people who kinda, sorta weren't sure if they could afford DVC any longer also sold. This led to lots and lots of contracts on the market and low prices because people just wanted out. As the economy has inched its way toward recovery, there are simply fewer people who have to sell and many of the marginal owners likely sold in the past few years. So less supply + greater demand = higher prices.

Very interesting. I don't recall reading the threads about this, but it makes some sense.

Granted, Disney is always selling direct contracts to people who are financing and could be in a pickle if the economy tanks again. I don't mind a little fluctuation, but at the end of the day Disney can control the prices.

FlipHipster · Jul 11, 2013

Missyrose said:
So less supply + greater demand = higher prices.

This ^ , its not magic IMO. Prices are going to fluctuate, but I would expect them to trend downward as contracts approach the termination date(s). Disney can control prices through ROFR but only to a certain extent. It's really only worth what someone is willing to pay. I doubt the Dis wants to grab a bunch of points and sit on them just to keep resale prices high if nobody is lining up to buy direct. However I have never run a TS so what do I know :confused3

As far as financing direct purchases, its a win-win for Disney. They make more money on the sale overall and if you default, they take back the points and resale them. What's not to love from Disney's POV?

I would like to know what some of the experts out there think about prices resale and direct as they approach the termination date.

ELMC · Jul 11, 2013

FlipHipster said:
This ^ , its not magic IMO. Prices are going to fluctuate, but I would expect them to trend downward as contracts approach the termination date(s). Disney can control prices through ROFR but only to a certain extent. It's really only worth what someone is willing to pay. I doubt the Dis wants to grab a bunch of points and sit on them just to keep resale prices high if nobody is lining up to buy direct. However I have never run a TS so what do I know

As far as financing direct purchases, its a win-win for Disney. They make more money on the sale overall and if you default, they take back the points and resale them. What's not to love from Disney's POV?

I would like to know what some of the experts out there think about prices resale and direct as they approach the termination date.

Although it should, I don't think the termination date will become a factor for quite some time. I think psychologically, the 20 year mark will be the point where people take the termination date into consideration.

However, mathematically speaking, it should be a factor right now. If you take a straight line cost for BWV using a direct purchase price of $130, you will find that each point "costs" $4.48. Add to that maintenance fees of $5.81 and you have a point cost this year of $10.29. That's as good as it gets, as maintenance fees will go up year after year and you need to take into consideration that you prepaid that $4.48 today for benefits you will receive over the next 29 years. On the other hand, you can rent points right now for $11-12 a piece. So mathematically speaking, the direct cost combined with the termination date already make buying BWV direct a bad deal. Yet people are still buying.

trophy smouse · Jul 11, 2013

Thanks for the data, dmunsil. I just starting paying attention to DVC $/pt, and am wondering if your data has a nice chart of price/point per location on a monthly basis over the course of a few years. As I'm new, I don't have the memory to see this as a specific trend.

I checked in the stickied DVC Info thread, but there doesn't seem to be anything like your data in there.

Thanks for the hard work!

dmunsil · Jul 11, 2013

trophy smouse said:
Thanks for the data, dmunsil. I just starting paying attention to DVC $/pt, and am wondering if your data has a nice chart of price/point per location on a monthly basis over the course of a few years.

I don't, and I agree that would be interesting. For BWV, I have data for January, April, May, and June 2013, which is all posted in separate threads. I thought about trying to do some kind of longitudinal series, perhaps just for one resort, to get a rough idea of the price trend over the last few years. I might do it, maybe just for stretches shorter than a month, like 2 weeks or something, maybe 6 times a year. And maybe I'd leave out the waiver dates and some of the harder info to capture. If I picked a small resort like VWL or BCV there aren't that many deeds to look at.

But that will take some time, so don't hold your breath.

kachmarh · Jul 13, 2013

Contracts that have all the points stripped out for the next use year generally sell for less money and those that have banked points and current use year points available to use sell for more.

icouldlivethere · Jul 13, 2013

Is there a way to see when Disney makes a direct sale and what resort and UY it is? The reason I ask is that we went on the wait list for 25 Oct UY BWV points on March 19. On April 29 my guide told me that there were 9 people ahead of us on the list waiting for Oct. UY BWV points. When we just called yesterday to see if we had moved up the list we were told we are 10th on the list for Oct. UY points, so no movement at all in the last 2-1/2 months.

I can see from your report that there were two 200 point BWV Oct. UY contracts that were ROFR'd on May 20 and May 21 and that the deeds were recorded on June 4th. So, if the deeds were recorded on June 4th, I'm assuming that they were available for Disney to resell at that time or am I missing something. Is there any way of finding out if those points were ever resold by Disney?

Thanks for all of the work you have done on this. It is much appreciated!

dmunsil · Jul 13, 2013

icouldlivethere said:
Is there a way to see when Disney makes a direct sale and what resort and UY it is?

Yes, though you do have to look at the actual deeds to see the Use Year. You just search the OCC database for start date=June 4th (so everything recorded on or after the ROFR deeds were recorded), type=deed, grantor = "DISNEY V" and Legal Remarks = "BOARDWALK".

There were 27 deeds sold by Disney from June 4th to today for Boardwalk. Four of them were for October UY. Two 100-point contracts recorded on 6/7/2013, and two 80-point contracts recorded on 6/12/2013. All of these were signed around May 19th-29th, which gives you some idea of the time delay on these. Also, they were all signed before the deed was recorded on those 400 points you mentioned, so I expect they're sales of points that were taken earlier.

Either Disney is filling larger contracts first, or the first person you talked to was mistaken about your position, or the second person you talked to was mistaken about your position. I'd hate to think it was the first option, but if I was a guide, I'd be looking to fill big sales first, given that all sales come with essentially the same time commitment and potential for hassle. But a 25-point sale comes with one-fourth the commission of a 100-point sale. If the guides themselves decide who to fill off the waitlist, then it's certainly possible that they're cherry-picking the larger orders.

I suppose you could call them back and say you want to change your waitlist to 100 points. When they call to tell you your waitlist has come in, say, "I changed my mind, I only need 25." Turnabout is fair play.

dmunsil · Jul 13, 2013

Also, FWIW, there were two other Oct UY BWV sales recorded between April 29th and June 4th: a 265 point sale recorded on Apr 30 (signed Apr 15th), and a 100-point sale recorded on May 6th (also signed Apr 15th).

So since you called on April 29th, there have been 6 sales recorded, but only 4 were actually signed after April 29th.

I suppose it's possible that on April 29th, all 6 of the buyers had been told that their points had come in, and thus were moved off the wait list, and it just took all this time for the sales contracts to be finalized, the money to be paid, and the deeds to be recorded.

Keep in mind that they can't slice and dice contracts with complete freedom. They have to sell you a complete fraction of a single Unit for each deed. So if the next person on the list is waiting for a single 600-point contract they have to collect ROFRs from the same Unit until they have 600 points to sell.

For that reason, they may prefer to match up the numbers as exactly as they can. So if they take a 200-point contract, they might prefer to fill two 100-point requests, since that leaves them with no points left over. Similarly, they might split a 160-point contract into two 80-point requests.

If that's true, you'll be waiting until they have 25 points left over in a single Unit, or until they have a bunch of small requests they can fill together from a single ROFR exercise.

wdrl · Jul 14, 2013

DVD doesn't necessarily wait until it has the full complement of points in one Unit to fulfill a buyer's request. I have seen instances where buyers have received points from two or more Units. For example, a buyer wanting 75 October UY BWV points may let their Guide know they are willing to take them in multiple deeds. Instead of having to wait until 75 points are available from one October UY Unit, DVD might be able to sell them 47 points from BWV Unit 15B and 28 points from Unit 23A.

Here is another thing to keep in mind about deeds reacquired by DVD: Even though DVD reacquires a deed, it cannot sell those points unless the deed comes with current year points. For example, DVD could ROFR or foreclose on a 300 point BWV deed with an October UY. But if there are no points in the 2012 UY, then DVD will not sell those points until October 1, 2013, at the earliest.

icouldlivethere · Jul 14, 2013

First off thanks so much for all of the great and useful information! Much appreciated!

dmunsil said:
Either Disney is filling larger contracts first, or the first person you talked to was mistaken about your position, or the second person you talked to was mistaken about your position. I'd hate to think it was the first option, but if I was a guide, I'd be looking to fill big sales first, given that all sales come with essentially the same time commitment and potential for hassle. But a 25-point sale comes with one-fourth the commission of a 100-point sale. If the guides themselves decide who to fill off the waitlist, then it's certainly possible that they're cherry-picking the larger orders.

We talked to the same person both times. When you buy direct you are assigned a guide and they are the only one you ever talk to. He had a record of us having called him on April 29. I called the first time and my husband called the second time but he had the phone on speaker phone so I heard the entire conversation. When he asked our guide why we hadn't moved up in 2-1/2 months all he had to say was that we had definitely moved up since our name was originally put on the list on March 19.

I do understand that they make more commission on larger contracts but I don't think the guides have any say in which contracts get fulfilled first. I believe it's the guides job to sell you a contract and put your name on the list and from there it is taken care of by accounting or some other office.

I had thought the contracts would be fulfilled in the order they were put on the list. Silly me! Now after reading your post and the one from wdrl it seems that if you would like your points all in one contract then they would all have to come from one unit. So, like you said if there were 2 people who both wanted a 100 point contract then there is a good chance that they would split the 200 point contract between them. I'm only going to get my 25 points if there are 25 points left over in a unit. I know I was told during my first phone call that the first person on the list for BWV Oct. UY points wanted 60 points. I don't know about the others.

wdrl said:
Here is another thing to keep in mind about deeds reacquired by DVD: Even though DVD reacquires a deed, it cannot sell those points unless the deed comes with current year points. For example, DVD could ROFR or foreclose on a 300 point BWV deed with an October UY. But if there are no points in the 2012 UY, then DVD will not sell those points until October 1, 2013, at the earliest.

One of the people who put a bid in on one of the 200 point Oct UY BWV contracts had posted on the ROFR thread and elsewhere as well. She said that it was a loaded contract and even had 2011 points in it. She was told by her resale agent that the other one was the same. I guess I will have to wait to see if those points show up as being sold by DVD sometime before Oct. 1. If they do, I'll have to make another phone call to see if we have moved up the list or not after they are sold. If not, then I'll be really disappointed.

Thanks again to both of you for explaining how things work!

Nabas · Jul 14, 2013

wdrl said:
Here is another thing to keep in mind about deeds reacquired by DVD: Even though DVD reacquires a deed, it cannot sell those points unless the deed comes with current year points. For example, DVD could ROFR or foreclose on a 300 point BWV deed with an October UY. But if there are no points in the 2012 UY, then DVD will not sell those points until October 1, 2013, at the earliest.

If I want an October Use Year, can't I buy that now? What about in September? Do I need 2012 points if I want to buy an October Use Year in September?

Thanks!

wdrl · Jul 14, 2013

Nabas said:
If I want an October Use Year, can't I buy that now? What about in September? Do I need 2012 points if I want to buy an October Use Year in September?

Thanks!

It doesn't really matter that you might not want an October UY deed with 2012 points, or that you might be quite willing to accept your first set of points with the 2013 UY. Except during the initial startup sales period for new DVC resorts, DVD will not sell deeds with post dated points. If DVD does not have points available in the current UY, it will not sell that deed until the first day of the next UY.

twinsouvenirs · Jul 14, 2013

ImagineerTHAT said:
I don't mind a little fluctuation, but at the end of the day Disney can control the prices.

This is part of the analysis that went into our decision to buy--for at least the forseeable future, we believe that if we pay cash & buy the bulk of our points resale, we can recover at least SOMETHING should we decide in 10 (or 2) years that the kids really don't enjoy it enough to justify the ongoing fees. This is because Disney has played a part in inflating prices with ROFR. We believe there is a lower likelihood than most timeshares that we'll be selling for a dollar on ebay.

Obviously other things can happen but in the end, if we pay cash up front, our worst case scenario isn't too horrible.

Tigger1 · Jul 14, 2013

Thanks for the info.

Sale & ROFR prices Jun '13

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