FP+ Details Are Out!

[Shaden]

You have to understand that very few CMs have been given information of how this system will work. I will say that almost all of these concerns (ie park hopping, changing parks, missing fast pass times, changing fastpass attractions) have already been thought out and they do know how to handle the new system. Disney needs to train thousands of CMs that will come in contact with the system the most such as Guest Relations, managers and resort front desk cast. The training class is 8 hours long. I can assure you that there are people who will be able to help you who know the answers. But the average CM working an attraction will not know anymore than the general public

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

I Disagree completely, the person I spoke to was VERY familiar with the new system, and indeed called ME about my concerns for FP+. He indicated he was in regular contact with a "leader" or "team leader" I can't remember his exact wording, of the Fastpass+ system/testing (pretty sure it was team leader). They honestly do NOT know how they will handle those situations "(ie park hopping, changing parks, missing fast pass times, changing fastpass attractions)"

He admitted straight up they will have to see how it plays out when it goes live and adjust from there. And that they have not made several decisions about FP+ and are still listening to feedback and looking at their test results.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

Sorry, I'm a marketing person. And I've always assumed Disney was pretty decent at marketing. Semantics are important.

As a friend of mine once said "90% of the time Disney gets it right, but when they screw up they do it in a major way"

Thus is going to be an epic fail IMHO and as a stockholder that is not good. Lots of wasted money that could have been used for a success

 

[d1gitman]

Sorry, I'm a marketing person. And I've always assumed Disney was pretty decent at marketing. Semantics are important.

often times HOW something is said is more important that WHAT is said.

 

[WillAustin]

I submit that, contrary to the conventional wisdom (that even I have accepted in the past), the vast majority of FPs are being used by the "average" guest.

It's true that not EVERY guest can get a FP, even those of us who know how to use/abuse the system have walked up to a kiosk and discovered that all of the FPs for the day have been distributed.

I theorize that the number of guests riding headliners multiple times with FP and maximizing FP usage by obtaining them as soon as they are available have a much smaller impact on the overall availability of FP to the "masses" than we think.

Even with limiting everyone to three FPs to "level the playing field," it's not possible to ensure ALL guests will have FPs available. The only way they are approaching that goal is to offer FP for more attractions (that have never needed it), and increasing the number of FPs available (to the detriment of the SB line).

The reality is that FP is a popular commodity in limited supply. Despite the fact that there ARE some clueless guests, the vast majority DO understand FP, or else TSMM, Soarin', etc. would not run out so quickly.

That's what I believe as well.

The theory that limiting guests to 3 FP+s per day means more opportunity for others to use them, thereby taking more guests out of the standby lines, while sounding good on the surface, doesn't seem like it's going to pan out. Currently FP is already self-limiting with the time delay. TSMM isn't running out of FPs by noon because I pull 4 of them in the morning. It doesn't allow me to do that.

My thought is there will be more demand for the FP+s, and supply won't go up. Any potential shortening of the standby line will be filled in by people who still want to ride multiple times, and by the crowd dynamics where more people will join a shorter line. With FP+, I can't really see the merge point ratio of FP to standby going down, so I am not expecting standby lines to move any quicker.

often times HOW something is said is more important that WHAT is said.

And sometimes the perception is more important than the reality.

 

[Bob NC]

If they have answers they cannot share, then it's perfectly fine to say "We are working on that". But I really am shocked at the number of "We don't know" answers. Seriously shocked. Maybe they just need to better train the folks making those calls. Or maybe they don't have answers. Neither makes me think highly of Disney in how this is being handled.

Actually, I'm seriously shocked that people feel they are entitled to answers from Disney on what their future plans are for what they are probably perceiving as a 'guest benefit.' Don't get me wrong, I understand people are concerned, but, I can't figure out how you would really expect Disney to 'handle' this.

I can't imagine Disney would set up a department to handle complaints and inquiries about a resort that is in the planning stages, why would they even think they need to go to extra lengths to answer questions about Fastpass+.

It's going to be what it's going to be. I can't see anyones individual benefit to knowing now what Disney plans for this project when it rolls out 100%. I would bet that Disney is flummoxed by the reaction to this.

I have been going to Disney for years and years. It is one of our favorite vacation spots. I have loved every resort I've stayed at. I love their customer service. I love most decisions they have made to enhance my experience. I can't figure out why they don't get the benefit of the doubt on this.

When it comes out, if people feel they can't go to these theme parks anymore because of this new system I can totally understand that. What I can't understand is people making up their minds in advance when they haven't even experienced it yet.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I can understand that interpretation, but I don't share it. Yes they are creating a flexible system, which I agree is hopeful, but they really don't seem to have a clue about HOW they are going to use that system.

I do, long term, share some of your optimism, although in my case I would call it hope. I HOPE they use this system to ensure my trips to Disney continue to be awesome, but I worry, they wont. I worry they will dramatically change the feel, and the utility of my vacation time.

But I think this is also one of the biggest problems, if they don't KNOW how the system is going to be implemented, how in the heck can we have any faith in booking vacations during its roll out ?

It appears more and more that they are just going to have to feel this thing out, their testing is completely bogus (other then testing systems that is, but not how the system will actually function, since they have said they don't know how it will actually function).

The real testing is going to happen while people are on vacation, paying thousands of dollars, using their limited supply of vacation, to be guinea pigs. That is a scary thought to me ...

I hear ya'. I'm still here checking for as much info as I can get, and am by no means saying "I'm not worried about this impacting my vacation at all!!" I'm just not in the "I'm canceling upcoming trips until I know more" territory at this point.

Oh there hasn't been any indication of that from WDW. That is just my speculation and opinion.

I don't think they will charge for some level of FP access (maybe the base number of 3 that we keep hearing about?). But I could see them using the system to charge for extra in the future or as resort incentives instead of free dining and room discounts. But this will all take a very long time IMO.

Gotcha'. That seems more likely than a flat charge... still not sure they would go there... probably depends on SO MANY things...

Sorry, I'm a marketing person. And I've always assumed Disney was pretty decent at marketing. Semantics are important.

True. This is why I keep saying that the BIG ROLLOUT CAMPAIGN is going to be VERY important wrt setting expectations, etc. And why I keep saying CMs should be trained to give nice, clear, consistent answers.

But no training is foolproof, and some of these CMs are going to be better than others at delivering the info in an awesome marketing-y way.

Feedback here from calls seems spotty so far wrt how polished it is (not surprising since those CMs are different people and not recordings!), and remember that it's being filtered through the caller's lens and PARAPHRASED here. No other way to do it, and I'm grateful that people are sharing!!! I just keep in mind that these communications are necessarily filtered in this way and not verbatim.

 

[mom2rtk]

That's what I believe as well.

The theory that limiting guests to 3 FP+s per day means more opportunity for others to use them, thereby taking more guests out of the standby lines, while sounding good on the surface, doesn't seem like it's going to pan out.

"The problem with Fastpass Plus, is that eventually you run out of other people's fastpasses."

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

"The problem with Fastpass Plus, is that eventually you run out of other people's fastpasses."

Margaret?!?! Is that YOU?!?!?

 

[TJBerry]

Actually, I'm seriously shocked that people feel they are entitled to answers from Disney on what their future plans are for what they are probably perceiving as a 'guest benefit.' Don't get me wrong, I understand people are concerned, but, I can't figure out how you would really expect Disney to 'handle' this.

I can't imagine Disney would set up a department to handle complaints and inquiries about a resort that is in the planning stages, why would they even think they need to go to extra lengths to answer questions about Fastpass+.

It's going to be what it's going to be. I can't see anyones individual benefit to knowing now what Disney plans for this project when it rolls out 100%. I would bet that Disney is flummoxed by the reaction to this.

I have been going to Disney for years and years. It is one of our favorite vacation spots. I have loved every resort I've stayed at. I love their customer service. I love most decisions they have made to enhance my experience. I can't figure out why they don't get the benefit of the doubt on this.

When it comes out, if people feel they can't go to these theme parks anymore because of this new system I can totally understand that. What I can't understand is people making up their minds in advance when they haven't even experienced it yet.

I think part of what is so frustrating for people is how Disney has been trickling out tiny pieces of info. It is irritating and does nothing but fuel rumors and speculation.

Why are they releasing info the way they are? I don't know. To gauge feedback/backlash so parts can be changed or adjusted? Again, I don't know.

 

[mom2rtk]

Actually, I'm seriously shocked that people feel they are entitled to answers from Disney on what their future plans are for what they are probably perceiving as a 'guest benefit.' Don't get me wrong, I understand people are concerned, but, I can't figure out how you would really expect Disney to 'handle' this.

I can't imagine Disney would set up a department to handle complaints and inquiries about a resort that is in the planning stages, why would they even think they need to go to extra lengths to answer questions about Fastpass+.

It's going to be what it's going to be. I can't see anyones individual benefit to knowing now what Disney plans for this project when it rolls out 100%. I would bet that Disney is flummoxed by the reaction to this.

I have been going to Disney for years and years. It is one of our favorite vacation spots. I have loved every resort I've stayed at. I love their customer service. I love most decisions they have made to enhance my experience. I can't figure out why they don't get the benefit of the doubt on this.

When it comes out, if people feel they can't go to these theme parks anymore because of this new system I can totally understand that. What I can't understand is people making up their minds in advance when they haven't even experienced it yet.

I don't think anyone here said they were entitled to anything. They wrote letters. Disney called. They asked questions. And the Disney rep answered. They could have replied with a form letter, but they called. They were under no obligation to do so. I'm more surprised when a company DOES call than when they don't.

Disney seems very open to customer feedback right now. My guess is that it's because that last round of testing had less participation in both the test and the focus groups than they anticipated.

 

[mom2rtk]

Margaret?!?! Is that YOU?!?!?

 

[Bob NC]

I think part of what is so frustrating for people is how Disney has been trickling out tiny pieces of info. It is irritating and does nothing but fuel rumors and speculation.

Why are they releasing info the way they are? I don't know. To gauge feedback/backlash so parts can be changed or adjusted? Again, I don't know.

Who knows? Maybe that is true. Trial balloons are a good way to gauge public reaction to possible ideas they are floating.

The part I don't get is why everyone thinks they are "OWED" information on what a future benefits details are.

When a new attraction opens you try it, if you like it you ride it a lot, if you don't like it you never ride it again. WDW is putting a mine train in Fantasyland, how many people here feel they should be able to call Disney and find out what the turn radius is on turn 4, or the drop height on the 7th drop? And I need to know what the theme of the waiting line is so I can decide now whether I want to stand in it on my vacation in August of 2014.

Very curious.

 

[Cafeen]

This is what i submitted to WDW, FWIW:

Dear Mr. Overton,... (snipped the rest so I don't make a quote wall)

While we're on the opposite sides of how we're looking at the system. I sincerely appreciate the tone of this letter. It's a very good midpoint that pretty much sums up how most of us feel on both the pessimistic side as well as the optimisitc side. Thank you.

And yet so far, unless I've missed it, there is absolutely no indication that they are even considering charging.

I suppose time will tell, but this seems pretty anti-Disney-M.O. to me. They have offerings across demographics (eg line at Target and fancy handbags) and segment in this way. But they've steered clear of differentiating in-park perks within an offering like accommodations as an eg (more FP for deluxe vs value).

Guess we'll see...

Disney rarely does anything unless they can monetize it in some way. Whether it's directly charging for additional passes, offering extras as promotion replacements, or using extras to entice guests on-site. (Note, all of these are entirely plausible and what they've done with other, seemingly free, perks (EMH, "+10" rule for ADRs, etc). IMO, they may not directly say "You can buy 3 more FP+ per day for $90 per person!", but they'll likely find some other way to charge for them indirectly. (Heck, they can bake it into the ticket prices next year as well)

Also, since (again, my opinion) they may not be charging directly for them, they can continue with the "Free" marketing stuff they do.

Isn't this semantics? I agree that they could have a bit more... finesse with these calls -- at least it sounds that way from some of the reports here. But "we're not sure because all of this is still in testing and we are continually incorporating feedback" is kinda' a more polished way of saying what they seem to be telling people in all reports.

If we were hearing: "This is set in stone. This is how it's going to be." I'd be worried!!

This is a case where semantics are important (I know a few others have already responded, but it's my turn! ). There's a big difference between the "We don't know" and "We're looking into it" or even "We're not ready to release that info" when discussing confidence in a system/implementation. Phrases such as "We don't know" typically lower confidence, and since this is one of the key issues that several people have, it IS an important distinction.

often times HOW something is said is more important that WHAT is said.

Yup!

One thing that I'm wondering, as it seems that some of the testing is pointing out and if I'm reading some of the WDW responses right, is that the 1 hour window that we know now may not be the same with FP+. Obviously, this needs more distinction, but it almost appears that the "Morning", "Midday", "Afternoon", "Evening" may be the actual return windows and likely several hours wide. This is pure speculation, but it's got me thinking. It would make it a bit easier to plan on the guest side, but depending on how they're handled (can you have multiple "Afternoon" at the same time?), may change our planning a bit more than we thought.

One thing also sticks out to me is that they want to reduce FP usage to speed up the SB lines. Which is a bit strange how it works. The lines will proceed faster, for sure, but they'll likely be longer (fewer FPs means more people in SB). Will there really be a net gain or will the increased length outweigh the benefit of a higher SB to FP ratio? (Or, are they hoping that the longer (length-wise) line makes more people decide not to ride?)

On a special note, you can adjust FP capacity for any ride, since it's a percentage/subset of total/hourly capacity. This percentage can be altered (potentially differently at different times of the day) to change the mix of FP to SB riders. Though, if this FP capacity reaches total attraction capacity, then you've got the case where only those with FP can even ride, but that's an extreme example. Also note that this can theoretically be done with today's system, so it's not something that relies on FP+.

(I'd also like to see the changes of them adding +1/2hr or +1hr to the Next FP Pull times with the existing system, that too should preserve FPs until later in the day, while spreading them out to more people. All without this big hubbub.)

 

[mom2rtk]

I hear ya'. I'm still here checking for as much info as I can get, and am by no means saying "I'm not worried about this impacting my vacation at all!!" I'm just not in the "I'm canceling upcoming trips until I know more" territory at this point.



Gotcha'. That seems more likely than a flat charge... still not sure they would go there... probably depends on SO MANY things...



True. This is why I keep saying that the BIG ROLLOUT CAMPAIGN is going to be VERY important wrt setting expectations, etc. And why I keep saying CMs should be trained to give nice, clear, consistent answers.

But no training is foolproof, and some of these CMs are going to be better than others at delivering the info in an awesome marketing-y way.

Feedback here from calls seems spotty so far wrt how polished it is (not surprising since those CMs are different people and not recordings!), and remember that it's being filtered through the caller's lens and PARAPHRASED here. No other way to do it, and I'm grateful that people are sharing!!! I just keep in mind that these communications are necessarily filtered in this way and not verbatim.

I agree this is going to require, and I believe Disney will deliver, a huge marketing package when this is ready to go. And I expect many front line employees to go "off message" when that happens. It's just the nature of the beast.

But at THIS point. When Disney chooses a person to place a phone call to a customer in response to their letter, I'm still shocked that the person on the phone can't put a more positive light on this. Heck, everyone here knows I'm no FP+ fan, but I guarantee you I could call a customer back and answer their questions with a more positive spin.

Maybe it was paraphrased, but there have been several similar reports already.

 

[TJBerry]

Who knows? Maybe that is true. Trial balloons are a good way to gauge public reaction to possible ideas they are floating.

The part I don't get is why everyone thinks they are "OWED" information on what a future benefits details are.

When a new attraction opens you try it, if you like it you ride it a lot, if you don't like it you never ride it again. WDW is putting a mine train in Fantasyland, how many people here feel they should be able to call Disney and find out what the turn radius is on turn 4, or the drop height on the 7th drop? And I need to know what the theme of the waiting line is so I can decide now whether I want to stand in it on my vacation in August of 2014.

Very curious.

I think part of it may be because planning for Disney is a long-term process, unlike some other vacation destinations. Most people plan at least six months or more out from the time they want to visit, mainly due to cost.

FP+ will have a major impact on upcoming vacations and the uncertainty is making a lot of people nervous and twitchy on planning. Their reasoning is they aren't paying thousands of dollars to spend most of their time in line. If details on FP+ continue to be withheld, they'll vacation elsewhere.

Let me add the above only applies to those that are aware of FP+, which overall may be a pretty small number.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

WDW is putting a mine train in Fantasyland, how many people here feel they should be able to call Disney and find out what the turn radius is on turn 4, or the drop height on the 7th drop?

Now I need a "raise my hand" smiley... maybe they have that...

This is a case where semantics are important (I know a few others have already responded, but it's my turn! ). There's a big difference between the "We don't know" and "We're looking into it" or even "We're not ready to release that info" when discussing confidence in a system/implementation. Phrases such as "We don't know" typically lower confidence, and since this is one of the key issues that several people have, it IS an important distinction.

As I said, I agree. And we've gotten a variation on this theme depending on the CM on the call -- and necessarily to some degree the account here is influenced by the perception of the caller. Variables, variables... subjectivity, subjectivity... SO MESSY!!

But at THIS point. When Disney chooses a person to place a phone call to a customer in response to their letter, I'm still shocked that the person on the phone can't put a more positive light on this. Heck, everyone here knows I'm no FP+ fan, but I guarantee you I could call a customer back and answer their questions with a more positive spin.

Having staffed "customer feedback centers" (i.e. mostly complaint-call-fielders ) in another life, I agree with you -- I'd put my BEST PEOPLE on this sucker right now.

Hopefully they're doing that... but even the best aren't perfect.

 

[ExBellhop]

But at THIS point. When Disney chooses a person to place a phone call to a customer in response to their letter, I'm still shocked that the person on the phone can't put a more positive light on this. Heck, everyone here knows I'm no FP+ fan, but I guarantee you I could call a customer back and answer their questions with a more positive spin.

Are people (us) going any higher up in their letter writing/emailing than the guest communications address? While you may not be able to put an email in Bob Iger's hands, it's very easy to get one into his office. Or 10. Or however many you folks are sending

(also mom2, not trying to single you out. this just seemed like the most logical post to quote to further this discussion )

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

It's been repeatedly pointed out that DISers are a small percentage of overall park attendees (and FP uber-super-user-abusers are an even smaller subset of DISers). Yet, every day in every park, every FP for every attraction is typically distributed (admittedly, some faster than others, but that's a function of attraction popularity rather than guests' "FP education level").

The uber-super-user-abusers certainly account for some percentage of those FPs, but if you really think about it, we can't possibly be taking ALL of them.

I submit that, contrary to the conventional wisdom (that even I have accepted in the past), the vast majority of FPs are being used by the "average" guest.

It's true that not EVERY guest can get a FP, even those of us who know how to use/abuse the system have walked up to a kiosk and discovered that all of the FPs for the day have been distributed.

I theorize that the number of guests riding headliners multiple times with FP and maximizing FP usage by obtaining them as soon as they are available have a much smaller impact on the overall availability of FP to the "masses" than we think.

Even with limiting everyone to three FPs to "level the playing field," it's not possible to ensure ALL guests will have FPs available. The only way they are approaching that goal is to offer FP for more attractions (that have never needed it), and increasing the number of FPs available (to the detriment of the SB line).

The reality is that FP is a popular commodity in limited supply. Despite the fact that there ARE some clueless guests, the vast majority DO understand FP, or else TSMM, Soarin', etc. would not run out so quickly.

Yes indeed. We DISers do like to flatter ourselves sometimes about our impact when in reality we are a tiny subset of Disney guests.

As a friend of mine once said "90% of the time Disney gets it right, but when they screw up they do it in a major way"

So FP+ could be the theme parks division's version of John Carter? Except epically more expensive.

Actually, I'm seriously shocked that people feel they are entitled to answers from Disney on what their future plans are for what they are probably perceiving as a 'guest benefit.' Don't get me wrong, I understand people are concerned, but, I can't figure out how you would really expect Disney to 'handle' this.

Entitled to answers? really? Because I haven't picked up on that in this particular thread. Evidently on at least some level Disney is soliciting reaction to the information they have doled out about FP+. I can't speak for everyone else, but I tried to send a brief email which addressed three basic concerns and how they might come into play on my style of visiting WDW.
Disney may well respond with an email or phone call, but truly I could not care less whether they do or not. As far as I am concerned they can add my email to the sea of feedback -or delete it into oblivion. I am not calling Disney on the carpet to answer for something that's not even real yet. I just sent off an email because it seemed that Disney was and in inviting responses.

 

[lugnut33]

Wow.

I hope they had a WHOLE LOT of focus groups if they were getting this small a number of participants per group.

I think I read that 3000 participated in this last test, so 2 people out of 3000 isn't a great response rate, is it?

Anyway, thanks again for all your great reports.

Well, that's $500,000,000 per person. So worth it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Having staffed "customer feedback centers" (i.e. mostly complaint-call-fielders ) in another life, I agree with you -- I'd put my BEST PEOPLE on this sucker right now.

Hopefully they're doing that... but even the best aren't perfect.

OK, I'm sorry but I have to say that if what they have put out there so far is their best, then I really am worried.

I'm not convinced they have their best returning those calls though. When I took time to complain last year about them taking Belle out of MVMCP, I got one of those phone calls. She told me a variety of things I might look for in Belle's place. The first was some sort of pre-parade act. Nope. Maybe she had MVMCP confused with MNSSHP? Don't know. But there wasn't anything. She told me they were "adding" the Tremaine family photo op for something new. Nope. That had been added 2 years prior. She told me to watch back in New Fantasyland, maybe the Beast would make appearances. Nope. She told me to watch in Epcot for Belle and the Beast to be out in their holiday attire. Nope.

I do understand that you can't have your imagineers returning customer complaint phone calls. But I don't expect to be patronized with wrong information either. But at least the woman who called me did have a very upbeat tone. She didn't say she didn't know the answers. She might have completely made up some answers, but she delivered them with great confidence.