It is official afterall. Star Wars Land and Cars Land at DHS!

[Joben]

Am I the only one who is sad to see Muppets go? I love that 3d show. I'd keep Muppets over Indy if I had to choose one.

I am more excited for Start Wars over Cars Land, but both things would be great to make DHS a full day park.

I would hate to see Muppets go too. I've heard the Beauty and the Beast show is supposed to be canceled, maybe they can move the Muppets over there and expand into the unused space behind it

 

[Zooshoveller]

Why can't they expand behind Star Tours (south?)? The only thing I could see is a road (service?) and trees.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

"Inside sources' still doesn't mean it's official.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not sure when the next major opportunity for Disney to "drop the bomb" is...how far away is D23 now?

Less than 2 months. Aug 9-11, I believe.

 

[mvk]

Why can't they expand behind Star Tours (south?)? The only thing I could see is a road (service?) and trees.

They could, though that area is set aside for wetlands/conservation I believe. I brought up expansion in this direction in another thread a month or two ago.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3109316

 

[mvk]

Just how much could actually fit in the Indy Jones area? I figure they will re-theme Backlot Express to a Star Wars theme, maybe something like Mos Eisley Cantina, but if the 'land' is only going to include Star Tours over to Indy, they might make it something more general and not specific to Tatooine.

I imagine they can fit in one large attraction building for an E-Ticket, and still have space for a spinner attraction in the Indy area. There is currently no spinner attraction at DHS, and not really much for the 'all-ages' crowd to ride.

They could then move the Jedi Training Academy indoors to the Sounds Dangerous area, and use the Turtle Talk technology to have Yoda 'train' the younglings. This wasn't my idea, someone else here had come up with it, but it makes sense.

Would an E-Ticket attraction, a spinner, an expanded Jedi Training Academy, a re-themed Backlot Express, and Star Tours be enough? Personally I would like to see it much much larger, but I understand the reasons for keeping it confined to that area.

I do think it makes more sense to build in the Indy area than the Muppets area, as demolition would be much less, and it's sort of in a corner, and not really a thoroughfare area.

As for Carsland, I assume it would be pretty much a carbon copy of the DCA land, though maybe the two supporting attractions (Luigi's Tires and Mater's) will be different.

 

[DanBoris]

I doubt Universal is going to aggressively develop their Marvel area the way that Disney likely would. My best guess is that they'll just leave it much like it is until they get bored of witholding it from Disney/paying Disney.

Disney has owned Marvel for almost 4 years now and hasn't aggressively developed it in the parks where they are allowed to.

The only way I could see Unviersal giving up Marvel is if it drops signficantly in popularity at which point it wouldn't make sense for Disney to build a major attraction for it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Disney has owned Marvel for almost 4 years now and hasn't aggressively developed it in the parks where they are allowed to.

The best place they have to develop it, though, is DLR, and that resort's already been undergoing a 1 billion dollar reworking of DCA. After seeing what the re-imagining of DCA has done for attendance at DLR, it's entirely possible that Disney can now see that DLR can become more of a vacation destination, like WDW, especially with another gate. When DCA's attendance was dismal, I don't think they would have given it serious thought.

Do I think they're going to pour money into a 3rd gate as I've seen rumored? Not necessarily. But there have been other rumors of reworking tomorrowland in DL to include Marvel - by getting rid of Nemo, Innoventions and Autopia. We've already seen Innoventions get a Marvel re-working with Ironman 3. After seeing what the investment did for DCA, I could definitely see Disney refreshing Tomorrowland and including Marvel in that plan.

 

[doconeill]

Why can't they expand behind Star Tours (south?)? The only thing I could see is a road (service?) and trees.

There is also the main entrance road and plaza, although in the past I've said if they relocated the entrance road there is a huge chunk of land out to the canal that could increase the size of DHS by nearly 50%.

They could, though that area is set aside for wetlands/conservation I believe. I brought up expansion in this direction in another thread a month or two ago.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3109316

Conservation land can be a bit of a red herring. Depending on the land itself, it could be set aside for conservation, but if they really wanted it, and had other land not currently classified, they could move the designation elsewhere.

Now, if the land is not suitable for buildingfor some reason (too soft/unsettled, etc.), which I think is what DanBoris referred to, then that is a different matter.

I also vaguely recall that RCID had limits (potentially self-imposed) of not building on more than 25% of the total land area. Not sure where they are at with that, but they've de-annexed some land in the past several years, which could be changing the percentages.

Less than 2 months. Aug 9-11, I believe.

Hmm...two more months to get strung along? Or will they say something sooner? The shareholder meeting is already passed...

But if we don't get the announcement by then, what happens? Will the OPs of all these "confirmed" threads renounce them?

 

[Reddog1134]

But if we don't get the announcement by then, what happens? Will the OPs of all these "confirmed" threads renounce them?

I think they will hold the announcement until the D23 Expo. There was a lot of negative backlash when nothing of substance was announced last time.

 

[Breyean]

Also would hate to see Muppets go away.

Speaking of going away, maybe while they have all that heavy construction machinery in the park for all these renovations, they could take out the hat????

Can't believe I wrote that out loud.

 

[doconeill]

Hmm...somebody somewhere mention Beauty and the Beast ending...stuff they do at the Indy stage could move there...not sure how big a stage is actually needed. They could probably move the stuff from Theater of the Stars as well, if that's not included in the plans.

 

[tjkraz]

The best place they have to develop it, though, is DLR, and that resort's already been undergoing a 1 billion dollar reworking of DCA. After seeing what the re-imagining of DCA has done for attendance at DLR, it's entirely possible that Disney can now see that DLR can become more of a vacation destination, like WDW, especially with another gate. When DCA's attendance was dismal, I don't think they would have given it serious thought.

Do I think they're going to pour money into a 3rd gate as I've seen rumored? Not necessarily. But there have been other rumors of reworking tomorrowland in DL to include Marvel - by getting rid of Nemo, Innoventions and Autopia. We've already seen Innoventions get a Marvel re-working with Ironman 3. After seeing what the investment did for DCA, I could definitely see Disney refreshing Tomorrowland and including Marvel in that plan.

One thing to keep in mind regarding these park investments is that the key is growth potential.

Before Disney's massive investment, DCA was drawing about 5 million guests per year. Compare that to Disneyland a couple hundred feet away which regularly draws 15-16 million. In that scenario, all Disney had to do was convince people to walk across the plaza to DCA. Or to spend the occasional day in DCA instead of DL.

Cars Land and the rest of the $1 billion investment has thus far raised DCA attendance by about 2 million guests. Not hard to do when starting with such a low number.

Meanwhile Hollywood Studios regularly draws just under 10 million. The same investment in DHS isn't going to juice its attendance by 2 million. Just not gonna happen.

Personally I don't think the Florida parks have much growth potential. With the prices Disney is charging and the wide variety of attractions already available today, there just isn't anything they can build which would cause a significant number of new customers to say "hey, maybe NOW we should go to Disney World!"

Star Wars and Cars Land are solid concepts, but neither is going to lead to a DCA-sized attendance improvement. That's not to say it won't happen, just that the results won't be as dramatic. With Universal and Sea World making impressive park investments, WDW needs to worry about just retaining its current level of business and posting modest attendance growth.

 

[doconeill]

One thing to keep in mind regarding these park investments is that the key is growth potential.

Before Disney's massive investment, DCA was drawing about 5 million guests per year. Compare that to Disneyland a couple hundred feet away which regularly draws 15-16 million. In that scenario, all Disney had to do was convince people to walk across the plaza to DCA. Or to spend the occasional day in DCA instead of DL.

Cars Land and the rest of the $1 billion investment has thus far raised DCA attendance by about 2 million guests. Not hard to do when starting with such a low number.

Meanwhile Hollywood Studios regularly draws just under 10 million. The same investment in DHS isn't going to juice its attendance by 2 million. Just not gonna happen.

They could possibly pick it up by 2 million. MK and Epcot do more. Not sure how much of it will be cannibalized from the other parks though, or it will come from people staying longer because there is more to do. Still, percentage wise they won't get as big a bump - which means percentage-wise the revenue won't increase as high. But it could increase the profit margin.

Here is a different way to look at it.

How much does it cost to operate the park? How much is fixed cost - the cost of having the park open, regardless of the level of guests? For instance, you probably have the same number of CMs running TSM, regardless of the length of the line or the business of the park. Same at RNRC. TOT and Star Tours are a bit different because they can be varied to a degree. But there is a good part of it that is fixed.

So, now if you can increase attendance by 2 million, that's only a 20% increase (not the 40% increase of DCA). How much of an increase in fixed and variable costs will be needed to operate the new areas? This isn't pure expansion, but taking over some existing areas/attractions that have their own costs (and reports indicate LMA is REALLY expensive), so it is possible the increase in costs is fairly minimal. Call it 0 for now.

So if the operating costs, including the fixed costs are already covered by the 10 million (I'd hope they are, or DHS has been a dismal failure and they'd have fixed/trashed it by now), we're talking a pure increase in profits/margin. Investors would LOVE that.

There will be an increase in the variable costs where needed throughout the park to handle an additional 20% guests, so some of that will be lost, but you could see an increase of maybe 15% net that becomes pure profit.

I of course don't know any of the actual numbers, and the cost increase for the new areas is likely not 0, but I'm certain that they aren't going to design something that would be more expensive to run than the potential revenue increase.

 

[dwheaton]

One thing to keep in mind regarding these park investments is that the key is growth potential.

Meanwhile Hollywood Studios regularly draws just under 10 million. The same investment in DHS isn't going to juice its attendance by 2 million. Just not gonna happen.

You make good points about growth potential. However, I think adding Star Wars to DHS would definitely raise its attendance by that amount, if not more. Of course, the trick with that is that it's going to probably take it away from their own parks, particularly EPCOT and DAK.

Let's say a family is going to Florida and is going to Disney for two or three days. If they decide not to park hop, they do one day at the MK. For that second day, they usually do EP. The last day (if applicable) is split between DAK, DHS, and a second day at MK.

If Star Wars and Cars Land happen, there's no way they skip DHS. It may be the top destination. I think if both of those are in place, the attendance for DHS would be second to only the Magic Kingdom in Orlando.

Also, Disney could bring back visitors who might go to Universal. They could be looking for new attractions, and these new options might cause them to just stay at Disney and not spend a day at Universal.

Who knows what will happen, so I'm just speculating obviously. It's intriguing to think about regardless of how things end up going.

 

[twebber55]

You make good points about growth potential. However, I think adding Star Wars to DHS would definitely raise its attendance by that amount, if not more. Of course, the trick with that is that it's going to probably take it away from their own parks, particularly EPCOT and DAK.

Let's say a family is going to Florida and is going to Disney for two or three days. If they decide not to park hop, they do one day at the MK. For that second day, they usually do EP. The last day (if applicable) is split between DAK, DHS, and a second day at MK.

If Star Wars and Cars Land happen, there's no way they skip DHS. It may be the top destination. I think if both of those are in place, the attendance for DHS would be second to only the Magic Kingdom in Orlando.

Also, Disney could bring back visitors who might go to Universal. They could be looking for new attractions, and these new options might cause them to just stay at Disney and not spend a day at Universal.

Who knows what will happen, so I'm just speculating obviously. It's intriguing to think about regardless of how things end up going.

Yep fun to speculate whats interesting to me is what order all of these expansions happen

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Just how much could actually fit in the Indy Jones area? I figure they will re-theme Backlot Express to a Star Wars theme, maybe something like Mos Eisley Cantina, but if the 'land' is only going to include Star Tours over to Indy, they might make it something more general and not specific to Tatooine.

I imagine they can fit in one large attraction building for an E-Ticket, and still have space for a spinner attraction in the Indy area. There is currently no spinner attraction at DHS, and not really much for the 'all-ages' crowd to ride.

They could then move the Jedi Training Academy indoors to the Sounds Dangerous area, and use the Turtle Talk technology to have Yoda 'train' the younglings. This wasn't my idea, someone else here had come up with it, but it makes sense.

Would an E-Ticket attraction, a spinner, an expanded Jedi Training Academy, a re-themed Backlot Express, and Star Tours be enough? Personally I would like to see it much much larger, but I understand the reasons for keeping it confined to that area.

I do think it makes more sense to build in the Indy area than the Muppets area, as demolition would be much less, and it's sort of in a corner, and not really a thoroughfare area.

As for Carsland, I assume it would be pretty much a carbon copy of the DCA land, though maybe the two supporting attractions (Luigi's Tires and Mater's) will be different.

Seems to me that the street fasads would free up a LARGE area too and would be easy to move to a new area since there really isn't much to them. They really serve no purpose anymore except to host the Osborn Lights and like I said, that could all easily be moved. If it was, it would free up the center between Star Tours and LAMC and if the Muppets were gone too, it would offer a huge expansion area for BOTH lands to expand and come together sort of like at the MK.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

The best place they have to develop it, though, is DLR, and that resort's already been undergoing a 1 billion dollar reworking of DCA. After seeing what the re-imagining of DCA has done for attendance at DLR, it's entirely possible that Disney can now see that DLR can become more of a vacation destination, like WDW, especially with another gate. When DCA's attendance was dismal, I don't think they would have given it serious thought.

Do I think they're going to pour money into a 3rd gate as I've seen rumored? Not necessarily. But there have been other rumors of reworking tomorrowland in DL to include Marvel - by getting rid of Nemo, Innoventions and Autopia. We've already seen Innoventions get a Marvel re-working with Ironman 3. After seeing what the investment did for DCA, I could definitely see Disney refreshing Tomorrowland and including Marvel in that plan.

Aren't there provisions in the Marvel contract that preclude Disney from using the Marvel characters in FL? I thought that was the big reason. I read somewhere that there is a provision in the Universal contract that locks any Marvel usage to Universal exclusively in FL but I could be wrong.

 

[doconeill]

Aren't there provisions in the Marvel contract that preclude Disney from using the Marvel characters in FL? I thought that was the big reason. I read somewhere that there is a provision in the Universal contract that locks any Marvel usage to Universal exclusively in FL but I could be wrong.

She's talking west coast.

The Universal contract in simple terms pretty much controls theme park usage east of the Mississippi.

 

[Angel Ariel]

She's talking west coast.

The Universal contract in simple terms pretty much controls theme park usage east of the Mississippi.

This..

and lol, yes I am female