before I buy...

[bmcd1998]

I have an opportunity to buy in at a small discount as my daughter is in the College Internship Program.

I am considering buying 400 pts at AKV. I have just a few brief questions:

• Salesperson told me how much I would be giving up by buying resale points. He said I would give up all "exchange" rights. Is that true? Can anyone summarize the difference between buying from Dis vs. resale?
  
• Where can I find the point "cost" of non-resort stays such as cruises, Adventures by Disney, etc?
  
• The only "incentive" he offered was the 2013 points at purchase and then a February use year. Is this really much of an incentive? Should I ask for more?
  
• There seems to be a school of thought that smaller contracts are easier to resell in the future. I have crunched the numbers and the cost is virtually identical. Should I do 4X100 point contracts? 2X200 point contracts? 1X400 point contract?

Any help you can give me is much appreciated! Can't wait to hear "Welcome Home" for the first time!

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

I have an opportunity to buy in at a small discount as my daughter is in the College Internship Program.

I am considering buying 400 pts at AKV. I have just a few brief questions:

• Salesperson told me how much I would be giving up by buying resale points. He said I would give up all "exchange" rights. Is that true? Can anyone summarize the difference between buying from Dis vs. resale?
  
• Where can I find the point "cost" of non-resort stays such as cruises, Adventures by Disney, etc?
  
• The only "incentive" he offered was the 2013 points at purchase and then a February use year. Is this really much of an incentive? Should I ask for more?
  
• There seems to be a school of thought that smaller contracts are easier to resell in the future. I have crunched the numbers and the cost is virtually identical. Should I do 4X100 point contracts? 2X200 point contracts? 1X400 point contract?

Any help you can give me is much appreciated! Can't wait to hear "Welcome Home" for the first time!

What is the "small discount" you get for your daughter being in the College Intern Program, if you don't mind sharing? My daughter is a Professional Intern, and we did not know that might qualify her or us for a small discount. Any discount is better than none.

Small contracts are better, and the price should be the same, unless the closing costs would differ. (Last time I bought, DVC still did not charge closing costs.) 4X100 would be best. How many kids do you have? Many people try to get amounts so they can give equal to each kid.

They really don't have any leeway on what they can offer for incentives. That is set by DVD. It is not like shopping for a car, and you can drive a better deal than they initially offer. You mentioned Feb use year. Is that the use year you want? You could possibly request to wait for a particular use year, if another would be better for you.

I have only used my points for WDW DVC resorts stays. Someone will come on and answer your other questions. Good luck with your decision. Keep reading the DVC forums on the dis, lots of good info here.

Wanted to remind you----annual dues will run you 3 times your purchase price. The purchase is just the beginning. You go more often, spend more on tickets, dining, flights, etc.

 

[JimMIA]

I have an opportunity to buy in at a small discount as my daughter is in the College Internship Program.

I am considering buying 400 pts at AKV. I have just a few brief questions:

• Salesperson told me how much I would be giving up by buying resale points. He said I would give up all "exchange" rights. Is that true?

• NO. That is FALSE. You would give up the ability to use points for DCL, Adventures by Disney, non-DVC Disney hotels (of which there are now few) and some other high-cost options.
  
  Resale points CAN be used for RCI exchanges.
  
  Also, NONE of the non-DVC uses direct buyers currently get are guaranteed. They can be changed or discontinued at any time with little or no notice.
  

  [*]The only "incentive" he offered was the 2013 points at purchase and then a February use year. Is this really much of an incentive? Should I ask for more?

  You should ask for a more honest timeshare salesman. This is June 2013; we are already almost halfway through the Feb 2013 use year. 2013 points are no incentive at all -- they are simply the current points you are PAYING FULL PRICE FOR.
  
  

  [*]There seems to be a school of thought that smaller contracts are easier to resell in the future. I have crunched the numbers and the cost is virtually identical. Should I do 4X100 point contracts? 2X200 point contracts? 1X400 point contract?

Small contracts benefit you in several ways.

1. They make it easier to "right-size" your DVC holdings later when you find you don't need 400 points. You can sell one, two, etc.
2. Small contracts sell quicker on the resale market
3. Small contracts sell for slightly higher prices on the resale market.

 

[bmcd1998]

What is the" small discount" you get for your daughter being in the College Intern Program, if you don't mind sharing? My daughter is a Professional Intern, and we did not know that might qualify her or us for a small discount. Any discount is better than none.

Small contracts are better, and the price should be the same, unless the closing costs would differ. (Last time I bought, DVC still did not charge closing costs.) 4X100 would be best. How many kids do you have? Many people try to get amounts so they can give equal to each kid.

They really don't have any leeway on what they can offer for incentives. That is set by DVD. It is not like shopping for a car, and you can drive a better deal than they initially offer. Where are you looking to purchase? You mentioned Feb use year. Is that the use year you want? You could possibly request to wait for a particular use year, if another would be better for you.

They offered me a 15% discount ($123.25/pt vs. $145/pt). I think you would be eligible as well based on your daughter being a cast member.

I have two kids (19 year old girl in college, 14 year old boy at home). Considering Animal Kingdom Villas...can't get the discount for GFV

If I understand the use year thing correctly, what he offered me was full 400 points for 2013 and a new set of points in Feb of 2014. Is that correct?

 

[bmcd1998]

NO. That is FALSE. You would give up the ability to use points for DCL, Adventures by Disney, non-DVC Disney hotels (of which there are now few) and some other high-cost options.

Resale points CAN be used for RCI exchanges.

Also, NONE of the non-DVC uses direct buyers currently get are guaranteed. They can be changed or discontinued at any time with little or no notice.
You should ask for a more honest timeshare salesman. This is June 2013; we are already almost halfway through the Feb 2013 use year. 2013 points are no incentive at all -- they are simply the current points you are PAYING FULL PRICE FOR.

Small contracts benefit you in several ways.

1. They make it easier to "right-size" your DVC holdings later when you find you don't need 400 points. You can sell one, two, etc.
2. Small contracts sell quicker on the resale market
3. Small contracts sell for slightly higher prices on the resale market.

Jim,

Thanks for the reply.

In fairness I think he was clear that the exchange rights I lose are the ones you mentioned (DCL and Adventures by Disney are two my family would value if they are not too point intensive). I didn't think of the RCI exchanges as terribly valuable (is that correct?).

Maybe I misunderstand the "use year". I thought that a Feb use year for a purchase in June would mean that we receive our 2014 points in February rather than June 2014. Is that incorrect?

 

[drusba]

What you cannot do if resale is use certain Disney Collections: trade out points for non-DVC Disney hotels and certain other hotels that have deals with Disney, the cruise, and adventure vacations (e.g., use points to take a down the rapids somewhere). The Disney Collections are perks for "regular" (bought from Disney or grandfathered in) members that Disney could take away from them at any time. All of the collections cost more in points than they are worth including having an extra $95 fee if you do use one, but you have the convenience factor of not having to use cash otherwise. And for all of them there are many members like me (since 1997) who have never used them and have no plans to ever do so. Note even regular members cannot trade out to Disney hotels where there is already a DVC resort, i.e., regular members cannot trade out to Beach Club or Yacht Club hotels, Contemporary, Boardwalk Inn, Animal Kingdom Lodge (hotel portion), and soon the Grand Floridian.

What you can do are exchanges through RCI, meaning other timeshares for which there are a huge number of places to trade out.

That's the only difference. Otherwise you are treated, or as some say mistreated, the same as everyone else.

Not sure where you can find the point exchanges for the collections on line.

The smaller contracts (particularly under 100) are easier to sell -- more potential buyers that can afford the cost than for higher points and members themselves are often looking for small low cost add-ons to their points. Doing 100 per contract is OK but not as good as even lower like 50.

As to incentives, regular new purchasers have certain incentives being offered: http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/pricing-a-promotions. However, I believe those will not apply if doing any kind of Disney employee discount, i.e., they won't mix the two discounts, and thus your "small" discount is likely all that will be offered through that program. Disney does not negotiate any applicable discounts to provide any more than it publicly says it is providing.

If you buy a Feb use year in June at AKV, you will get Feb 2013 points and then another allotment in Feb 2014 (and every Feb thereafter).

 

[nkosiek]

They offered me a 15% discount ($123.25/pt vs. $145/pt).
If I understand the use year thing correctly, what he offered me was full 400 points for 2013 and a new set of points in Feb of 2014. Is that correct?

Use year is when you get a fresh set of points, so essentially, every Feb, you'd get 400 points. Since we are in June of 2013, you are entitled to the 2013 points from any use year from June back to February (there are no January/May/July/November months). If they were offering to sell you December UY, you'd be getting 2012's points, because that's the use year that is still currently valid.

People on here will be a little upset at the salesperson, not you, because of how they present the info to you. If they were throwing in Feb 2012's points, you'd be getting a bonus, as it is, you're getting exactly what you would be paying for, so the 2013 points are not a bonus at all.

 

[Missyrose]

Before you buy, is AKV where you'd like to stay a good chunk of the time?

 

[bmcd1998]

Before you buy, is AKV where you'd like to stay a good chunk of the time?

I think so Missyrose. Is there something about AKV that I don't know?

Is there a real substantive difference in where you buy other than the 11 month/7 month window and the end date of each resort?

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

Jim,

Thanks for the reply.

In fairness I think he was clear that the exchange rights I lose are the ones you mentioned (DCL and Adventures by Disney are two my family would value if they are not too point intensive). I didn't think of the RCI exchanges as terribly valuable (is that correct?).

Maybe I misunderstand the "use year". I thought that a Feb use year for a purchase in June would mean that we receive our 2014 points in February rather than June 2014. Is that incorrect?

You do get your points when your use year starts--i.e. Feb use year, get them in Feb. And your yearly fees are prorated this first year. So if you bought July use year, for example, and closed June 20th, you would pay only 10 days worth of dues for an entire years worth of points. Look at when you want to vacation, and set your use year to start then. For instance, you are a teacher, and expect to go most often in summer vacation, set a June use year.
If the public incentives are better than the cast member discount, that is the way to go. I also read cast member purchases have some additional restrictions for use and rental and future resale. Hopefully someone will come and state what they are.

I LOVE AKV. Good choice on resort!

 

[nkosiek]

I think so Missyrose. Is there something about AKV that I don't know?

Is there a real substantive difference in where you buy other than the 11 month/7 month window and the end date of each resort?

Yeah, 4 things: Point cost to stay in each resort is different and location, location, location.

Example of point differential based on peak summer travel (easier for me to do as that's when I have to go as a teacher):

BLT 1 week in a standard view studio/1BR/2BR: 139/268/354
AKV 1 week in a standard view studio/1BR/2BR:116/228/287
BCV: 134/269/350
SSR: 120/241/315



In regards to location, if you're an Epcot person, staying closer to it may be more important, same with the MK.


Also, in response to point costs for ABD, here's a brief write up but no specifics. It appears to cost a ton of points.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/adventures-by-disney/disney-vacation-club.htm


As for cruise cost pp, here's a link to several point charts for next year's cruises to give you an idea on what your 400 points would get you:
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/owning-dvc/2141-2014-disney-cruise-charts-available

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

Set your use year for when you expect to vacation so if something happens, and you need to cancel your reservation, you can still bank the points.

 

[Dean]

They offered me a 15% discount ($123.25/pt vs. $145/pt). I think you would be eligible as well based on your daughter being a cast member.

I have two kids (19 year old girl in college, 14 year old boy at home). Considering Animal Kingdom Villas...can't get the discount for GFV

If I understand the use year thing correctly, what he offered me was full 400 points for 2013 and a new set of points in Feb of 2014. Is that correct?

But all the cash type exchange options ARE very points intensive. You normally get between $6-7 a point and when you consider buying more points and the up front additional costs, I don't see any way it'd be worth it for this purpose. You also need to know what the restrictions are on buying using the CM discount. IMO you'd be better off buying resale and foregoing the discount and CM restrictions since I don't believe you give up anything of true value when you buy resale.

 

[Countryrunner262]

They offered me a 15% discount ($123.25/pt vs. $145/pt). I think you would be eligible as well based on your daughter being a cast member.

I have two kids (19 year old girl in college, 14 year old boy at home). Considering Animal Kingdom Villas...can't get the discount for GFV

If I understand the use year thing correctly, what he offered me was full 400 points for 2013 and a new set of points in Feb of 2014. Is that correct?

I think the "discount" they are giving is the current incentive they are offering to all interested in AKV right now. If you are interested in AKV, they are on the resale market for almost half price off of direct. This is the reason we went resale. They tried talking up AKV, but then I found out, the only reason was is because its one of the only resorts NOT on a wait list.

 

[Missyrose]

I think so Missyrose. Is there something about AKV that I don't know?

Is there a real substantive difference in where you buy other than the 11 month/7 month window and the end date of each resort?

If you think you'd want value or concierge villas often, then buy at AKV (you'll need the home resort priority for those most of the time). Otherwise, AKV is fairly easy to get into at seven months because it is so big. So if you want to stay at any of the smaller resorts, you may want to look at buying there instead to take advantage of the 11-month window.

 

[chalee94]

In fairness I think he was clear that the exchange rights I lose are the ones you mentioned (DCL and Adventures by Disney are two my family would value if they are not too point intensive). I didn't think of the RCI exchanges as terribly valuable (is that correct?)

most of us don't think of the disney exchanges as terribly valuable either. have you looked at the point charts to see how many pts those cost?

I think so Missyrose. Is there something about AKV that I don't know?

Is there a real substantive difference in where you buy other than the 11 month/7 month window and the end date of each resort?

the only other thing is the annual dues rate charged for each resort.

the 11 month window can be very important, though. if you expect to exchange every time at 6-7 months out for a theme park view villa at BLT or a standard view at BWV, let me warn you that you are being a bit optimistic...

edited to add - here are a couple of disappointed posters you might want to learn from:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3122901

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think so Missyrose. Is there something about AKV that I don't know?

Is there a real substantive difference in where you buy other than the 11 month/7 month window and the end date of each resort?

AKV is a very nice resort.

The other differences between what you listed are MF's and point costs per room so you may want to check all of them out.

And the price you can save in resale vs. the offer you have been given would still go a long ways towards paying cash for the time you might want to cruise or use ABD - those are very point intensive!

Otherwise if you really want to buy direct you are better off inquiring about a UY that is Aug-Dec and seeing if you can get 2012 points. Feb is one of the least incentive months you could possibly be offered at this date unless that particular UY were important to you because of the times you travel. There's nothing wrong with it being presented as an incentive is incorrect.

 

[nd43]

They offered me a 15% discount ($123.25/pt vs. $145/pt). I think you would be eligible as well based on your daughter being a cast member.

I have two kids (19 year old girl in college, 14 year old boy at home). Considering Animal Kingdom Villas...can't get the discount for GFV

One thing to consider. If you have the cash and you are like most DVC owners and at some point you sell, the true "cost" per point you end up paying will be determined when you eventually sell your points and not what you purchased them for.

For instance, paying $124 per pt for AKV direct now may appear cheaper to VGF. However, in 5 to 8 years, when you consider resale, $150 per point for VGF may ultimately be a lot less expensive. This is comparing direct to direct pricing. You certainly should do the same if you consider resale. "Cheaper points" is most likely going to be determined by how they hold their value over time and not just your purchase price. There is a very good chance VGF will hold more value over time then the current direct price for AKV. Resale would change this calculation quickly and perhaps swing it back in favor of AKL. In the end, to determine the best value for points, you should look closely at possible future resale values.

Of course, if you expect to keep your points until contract end, this financial view has no relevance.

 

[iluvthsgam]

One thing to consider. If you have the cash and you are like most DVC owners and at some point you sell, the true "cost" per point you end up paying will be determined when you eventually sell your points and not what you purchased them for.

For instance, paying $124 per pt for AKV direct now may appear cheaper to VGF. However, in 5 to 8 years, when you consider resale, $150 per point for VGF may ultimately be a lot less expensive. This is comparing direct to direct pricing. You certainly should do the same if you consider resale. "Cheaper points" is most likely going to be determined by how they hold their value over time and not just your purchase price. There is a very good chance VGF will hold more value over time then the current direct price for AKV. Resale would change this calculation quickly and perhaps swing it back in favor of AKL. In the end, to determine the best value for points, you should look closely at possible future resale values.

Of course, if you expect to keep your points until contract end, this financial view has no relevance.

It is almost impossible to predict future resale values. A lot will depend on how Disney prices direct, on how Disney utilizes ROFR, the economy, etc.

Disney has a lot of control in manipulating the future resale value of the DVC interests, so without knowing their long-term thinking I would be hard pressed to estimate what it will be "worth" in 10-15 years.

 

[nd43]

It is almost impossible to predict future resale values. A lot will depend on how Disney prices direct, on how Disney utilizes ROFR, the economy, etc.

Disney has a lot of control in manipulating the future resale value of the DVC interests, so without knowing their long-term thinking I would be hard pressed to estimate what it will be "worth" in 10-15 years.

Future resale value in this case (AKV vs. VGF) is relative and not absolute. Most of the factors you list would affect all DVC resale values across the board. Under all those scenarios you need to take an educated guess on the relative value of AKV at $125 vs. VGF at $150 in the future. If all resale values decline, you still can make an educated guess that VGF will retain relatively more value then current AKV direct prices. There is a large set of reasons why this assumption is sound including the relative size of the property, the location of the property, the initial buy in price for each property, etc.